2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
5
38%
Raiders 1-12
4
31%
Draw
0
No votes
Cowboys 1-12
4
31%
Cowboys 13+
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 13

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Kryptonite
John Ferguson
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Kryptonite »

Rickmando wrote: May 25, 2019, 5:47 pm
Hazza wrote: May 25, 2019, 5:27 pm
Rickmando wrote: May 25, 2019, 5:15 pm We are not a top 4 team. Top sides don’t “celebrate” losses like we have the past few weeks. Those responses further confirmed our inferiority complex regarding where we sit compared to so-called “big” clubs.

It’s why we are on the end of so many close losses - the players lack belief, and it’s been hammered in over many recent seasons.

It’s also rife in the supporter base.

Plenty of things have to change for us to ever shake this attitude that has come to identify us in the past 20 years... first thing is to stop accepting mediocrity in lots of things that we do as a club (on and off field aspects)
I don't disagree with any of that. And I'm as guilty as anyone. 'Well at least we're still in the 8'. Probably cos deep down I never thought we were a top 4 team. I don't know if that's the loser mentality you speak of or just bring realistic.
It’s ok to be optimistic - as fans, that’s all we’ve got! The issue with supporters is (generally) we make too many excuses for this club/this team, continually feeding the narrative that we’re the little guy, the underdog, the ones who are constantly wronged because we are the “have-nots”, jealous of the “haves”. This is an attitude that goes right up to board level, in my opinion.

Melbourne are always thrown up as a benchmark in these discussions (rightly so) - but they are a team in an almost non-existent RL market, they’re technically the closest thing to an outpost the NRL has. Have they ever in their history pissed and moaned that players don’t want to move to Melbourne? That the NRL has it in for them? No! What they’ve done is systematically be better at all aspects of on and off field operations - and the results have naturally followed, despite playing their football in a rugby league wasteland.

They’ve been proactive at how they attack winning the title each year, while also thinking about subsequent years (something the Raiders of old were) instead of pathetically reactive (like our current administration).

A culture change to one of accountability has to happen before any positive results can follow. This means having lots of tough conversations about executive, coaching, and playing personnel to weed out this mindset of mediocrity... but who in the current set up is willing to have them? No one - it’s just the good old boys who function to give jobs to other good old boys. The cycle will continue....
Really? Melbourne are a cheats and grubs, should have been booted from the comp
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gerg
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by gerg »

We can't lose those games if we want to be serious contenders. **** attitude today and boy does Croker need to fix his defence. I've held off commenting the last few weeks but his defensive reads this year are bad, real bad. Now I'm not for a moment suggesting he be dropped or moved he just has to be better. He jams in far too often and leaves his winger high and dry every bloody time. He is a massive ball watcher. He needs to fix it.

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LastRaider
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by LastRaider »

gergreg wrote:We can't lose those games if we want to be serious contenders. **** attitude today and boy does Croker need to fix his defence. I've held off commenting the last few weeks but his defensive reads this year are bad, real bad. Now I'm not for a moment suggesting he be dropped or moved he just has to be better. He jams in far too often and leaves his winger high and dry every bloody time. He is a massive ball watcher. He needs to fix it.

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If we are going to retain him, he needs to go the wing


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Azza
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Azza »

There was nothing positive about that game. It was a huge step backwards after all the inroads made earlier in the year
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Rickmando
John Ferguson
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Rickmando »

Kryptonite wrote: May 25, 2019, 6:20 pm
Rickmando wrote: May 25, 2019, 5:47 pm
Hazza wrote: May 25, 2019, 5:27 pm
Rickmando wrote: May 25, 2019, 5:15 pm We are not a top 4 team. Top sides don’t “celebrate” losses like we have the past few weeks. Those responses further confirmed our inferiority complex regarding where we sit compared to so-called “big” clubs.

It’s why we are on the end of so many close losses - the players lack belief, and it’s been hammered in over many recent seasons.

It’s also rife in the supporter base.

Plenty of things have to change for us to ever shake this attitude that has come to identify us in the past 20 years... first thing is to stop accepting mediocrity in lots of things that we do as a club (on and off field aspects)
I don't disagree with any of that. And I'm as guilty as anyone. 'Well at least we're still in the 8'. Probably cos deep down I never thought we were a top 4 team. I don't know if that's the loser mentality you speak of or just bring realistic.
It’s ok to be optimistic - as fans, that’s all we’ve got! The issue with supporters is (generally) we make too many excuses for this club/this team, continually feeding the narrative that we’re the little guy, the underdog, the ones who are constantly wronged because we are the “have-nots”, jealous of the “haves”. This is an attitude that goes right up to board level, in my opinion.

Melbourne are always thrown up as a benchmark in these discussions (rightly so) - but they are a team in an almost non-existent RL market, they’re technically the closest thing to an outpost the NRL has. Have they ever in their history pissed and moaned that players don’t want to move to Melbourne? That the NRL has it in for them? No! What they’ve done is systematically be better at all aspects of on and off field operations - and the results have naturally followed, despite playing their football in a rugby league wasteland.

They’ve been proactive at how they attack winning the title each year, while also thinking about subsequent years (something the Raiders of old were) instead of pathetically reactive (like our current administration).

A culture change to one of accountability has to happen before any positive results can follow. This means having lots of tough conversations about executive, coaching, and playing personnel to weed out this mindset of mediocrity... but who in the current set up is willing to have them? No one - it’s just the good old boys who function to give jobs to other good old boys. The cycle will continue....
Really? Melbourne are a cheats and grubs, should have been booted from the comp
That’s the outsider’s view... you could also argue they’ve been shrewd, cunning and intelligent enough to exploit any edge they’ve been able to find, in order to get an advantage in a competitive environment
Elcaptcroker
David Grant
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Elcaptcroker »

-PJ- wrote:How about when Ken Nagas was given horn duty but the horn went off before Kenny got his lips to it.

It's fake news..
The fake horn is old news


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BadnMean
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by BadnMean »

LastRaider wrote: May 25, 2019, 6:30 pm
gergreg wrote:We can't lose those games if we want to be serious contenders. **** attitude today and boy does Croker need to fix his defence. I've held off commenting the last few weeks but his defensive reads this year are bad, real bad. Now I'm not for a moment suggesting he be dropped or moved he just has to be better. He jams in far too often and leaves his winger high and dry every bloody time. He is a massive ball watcher. He needs to fix it.

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If we are going to retain him, he needs to go the wing


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Then you've got $1mill+ wrapped up in your wingers if we have Jordy Raps... Maybe $1.2...

He's not going to be a winger. He'd be a better FB than winger- if we are talking hypotheticals. His contact this year has been fine. I've no doubt he can read a game. He's a great pair of hands...

The Klok's lack of a pass was another limiting factor today. It may still develop. he deserves more time.

I wouldn't be making these changes yet, we'll need to wait until Jordy and Bateman are back and Klok deserves more time at FB.
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greeneyed
Don Furner
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

Canberra Raiders hooker Josh Hodgson suffers suspected broken thumb in loss to Cowboys







The Canberra Raiders could soon be robbed of another international star with Josh Hodgson set to undergo scans on a suspected broken thumb.

"I don't see many positives out of that game at all. We let ourselves down, very much so. We talked about the benchmark we were setting for ourselves, and improving, and we went backwards," Ricky Stuart said.

NORTH QUEENSLAND COWBOYS 22 (Tom Opacic, Justin ONeill, Kyle Feldt tries; Jordan Kahu 5 goals) bt CANBERRA RAIDERS 16 (Bailey Simonsson, Michael Oldfield, Siliva Havili tries; Jarrod Croker 2 goals) at Canberra Stadium. Crowd: 14,647.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

Canberra Raiders star Jack Wighton emerges as an answer to NSW Blues dilemma

Jack Wighton was left shattered after what he dubbed "by far our worst performance" of the season, which comes just as Fittler prepares to name his Blues side on Sunday night.

"It's everybody's dream isn't it? That's what we play footy for. It would mean the world but I'll just keep playing good footy, and that's all I can do," Wighton said.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

Match Report: Raiders lose Hodgson as Taumalolo carries Cowboys to victory: https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/05/25/rai ... o-victory/

Match Highlights: Raiders v Cowboys: https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/05/25/mat ... v-cowboys/

Press conference: Ricky Stuart chats to the media after his team's round 11 game against the Cowboys: https://www.raiders.com.au/news/2019/05 ... onference/

Hodgson suffers suspected broken thumb in Raiders loss: https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/05/25/hod ... ders-loss/

Morgan fires as Scott shoulder injury sours Cowboys win: https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/05/25/mor ... wboys-win/
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greeneyed
Don Furner
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

Rickmando wrote: May 25, 2019, 5:15 pm We are not a top 4 team. Top sides don’t “celebrate” losses like we have the past few weeks. Those responses further confirmed our inferiority complex regarding where we sit compared to so-called “big” clubs.

It’s why we are on the end of so many close losses - the players lack belief, and it’s been hammered in over many recent seasons.

It’s also rife in the supporter base.

Plenty of things have to change for us to ever shake this attitude that has come to identify us in the past 20 years... first thing is to stop accepting mediocrity in lots of things that we do as a club (on and off field aspects)
Change in user name coming on?
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Rickmando
John Ferguson
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Rickmando »

greeneyed wrote: May 25, 2019, 7:52 pm
Rickmando wrote: May 25, 2019, 5:15 pm We are not a top 4 team. Top sides don’t “celebrate” losses like we have the past few weeks. Those responses further confirmed our inferiority complex regarding where we sit compared to so-called “big” clubs.

It’s why we are on the end of so many close losses - the players lack belief, and it’s been hammered in over many recent seasons.

It’s also rife in the supporter base.

Plenty of things have to change for us to ever shake this attitude that has come to identify us in the past 20 years... first thing is to stop accepting mediocrity in lots of things that we do as a club (on and off field aspects)
Change in user name coming on?
Might have used my quota up :lol:
Johno
David Furner
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Johno »

-PJ- wrote: May 25, 2019, 6:17 pm How about when Ken Nagas was given horn duty but the horn went off before Kenny got his lips to it.

It's fake news..
Kenny is fast !!!
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Lucky
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Lucky »

Damn Souffs.... ruined my quest for getting a duck egg in the tipping comp, im 1/6 now :D
Must be a good feeling supporting a highly professional team... you know, one which isn't piss weak and goes on a losing streak because they lose 1 good player (Bateman).... ever since we lost him our season has gone down the toilet.
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kris-ko
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by kris-ko »

Azza wrote: May 25, 2019, 6:31 pm There was nothing positive about that game. It was a huge step backwards after all the inroads made earlier in the year
Yep and yep. Horrible to watch yet we were still somehow within striking distance til the end. Back to square one.
Billy Walker
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Billy Walker »

LastRaider wrote: May 25, 2019, 6:30 pm
gergreg wrote:We can't lose those games if we want to be serious contenders. **** attitude today and boy does Croker need to fix his defence. I've held off commenting the last few weeks but his defensive reads this year are bad, real bad. Now I'm not for a moment suggesting he be dropped or moved he just has to be better. He jams in far too often and leaves his winger high and dry every bloody time. He is a massive ball watcher. He needs to fix it.

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If we are going to retain him, he needs to go the wing


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In Mounties - he hasn’t got it. He’s a good player but has never been a great player and he will never play Origin or win a premiership. Let’s find a good Centre.
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gerg
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by gerg »


Billy Walker wrote:
LastRaider wrote: May 25, 2019, 6:30 pm
gergreg wrote:We can't lose those games if we want to be serious contenders. **** attitude today and boy does Croker need to fix his defence. I've held off commenting the last few weeks but his defensive reads this year are bad, real bad. Now I'm not for a moment suggesting he be dropped or moved he just has to be better. He jams in far too often and leaves his winger high and dry every bloody time. He is a massive ball watcher. He needs to fix it.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
If we are going to retain him, he needs to go the wing


Sent from my iPhone using The Greenhouse
In Mounties - he hasn’t got it. He’s a good player but has never been a great player and he will never play Origin or win a premiership. Let’s find a good Centre.
I like him. I like what he brings to the club. He will more than likely go down as our most capped player and one of the greatest point scorers in NRL history. You don't just turf a bloke like that.

He has in the past proven he can defend well but he isn't currently doing it. I don't sit in the inner bowl at games. I sit higher up and I see Croker ball watching too much, not counting numbers correctly and coming in too much and not shutting down the play. He cannot keep doing it, especially as he is jamming in when he doesn't actually need to. Today was really bad - a few times he was jamming in in front of his inside defender, its stupid and needs to stop. It's only been our decent scrambling defence which has meant it hasn't been as costly as it could have been. He needs coaching help.

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Billy Walker
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Billy Walker »

gergreg wrote: May 25, 2019, 10:59 pm
Billy Walker wrote:
LastRaider wrote: May 25, 2019, 6:30 pm
gergreg wrote:We can't lose those games if we want to be serious contenders. **** attitude today and boy does Croker need to fix his defence. I've held off commenting the last few weeks but his defensive reads this year are bad, real bad. Now I'm not for a moment suggesting he be dropped or moved he just has to be better. He jams in far too often and leaves his winger high and dry every bloody time. He is a massive ball watcher. He needs to fix it.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
If we are going to retain him, he needs to go the wing


Sent from my iPhone using The Greenhouse
In Mounties - he hasn’t got it. He’s a good player but has never been a great player and he will never play Origin or win a premiership. Let’s find a good Centre.
I like him. I like what he brings to the club. He will more than likely go down as our most capped player and one of the greatest point scorers in NRL history. You don't just turf a bloke like that.

He has in the past proven he can defend well but he isn't currently doing it. I don't sit in the inner bowl at games. I sit higher up and I see Croker ball watching too much, not counting numbers correctly and coming in too much and not shutting down the play. He cannot keep doing it, especially as he is jamming in when he doesn't actually need to. Today was really bad - a few times he was jamming in in front of his inside defender, its stupid and needs to stop. It's only been our decent scrambling defence which has meant it hasn't been as costly as it could have been. He needs coaching help.

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Yeah you’re probably right - he’s a likeable guy so let’s just gloss over his many flaws!
EJ
David Furner
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by EJ »

Just watched. We simply never looked in that.

We're in trouble .

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twistedbydesign
Simon Woolford
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by twistedbydesign »

Very ordinary. For all the quotes from players about our different attitude this year that was a very flat performance, reminiscent of many from recent seasons.

It goes without saying that the loss of Bateman, Leilua and Rapana is really hurting us, but to me it touches on a larger point. We’re still far too reliant on individual brilliance - winning games is contingent on players doing freakish things to bring us points. In spite of the horrors of the first 60 mins, we still had plenty of chances to get back into the game at the end and our attack was laughably pedestrian. Awful as he was today, and limited as he is in general, I don’t believe this is exclusively a Sam Williams issue.
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Woodgers
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Woodgers »

I'm absolutely gutted with that loss, but I do think a lot of the comments here and elsewhere are a bit OTT.

The biggest issue which Twisted says above is the attack is completely awful and reliant on individual effort. There is no structure to anything and it is opportunistic. We have the chance with Hodgson out to get the ball to the halves early and try work some running plays because as I keep saying no one has a clue what Hodgson is going to do and even before the game Ricky was interviewed and said that Hodgson dictates what ball the halves get which lines up with what i've been saying the past month or so. It appears our idea of attack is let the hooker just dart out of dummy half and try isolate what he deems a poor defender with a bigger player receiving the ball late and trying to steamroll over the top of them. It's the height of basic football and so predictable that everyone is onto it in 2019 already. I've lost count in the past 2 weeks alone where the ball has gone to Horsbrough on the 4th, most of those when we're in the red zone. That's criminal. The fallout of that game was something that was always coming on here, we have a stinker and then we have a massive EDIT contest over why Williams shouldn't be selected like the issue of him vs Sezer is the main fault line and swapping the 2 would've been the difference. It isn't. The glaring problem is we have no structure to the attack so while we've all been sitting here for 2 months talking about the improved defence, the attack has been as bad as I can recall and the more you reflect, the more you realise what most of our points so far have come from either barge overs or BJ starting the season superbly.

Croker didn't have a good game but I find it weird that now all of a sudden his jamming in is a thing. It's always been a problem and bringing it up gets many people into a frenzy. It's the same with Williams but receives less overall critique in that both players are on the small side for NRL players so race up to get early contact to negate the deficiency. His physical attributes don't match up well as an NRL centre, that's how he compensates and people know it. It's not news. He has improved over time at getting more right than wrong so i'll put today down as a blemish but in the grand scheme of things, his defence will never be up there with the better NRL centres.
We continue to **** about with blokes that are part of some fraternity. It's infuriating.
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Rickmando
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Rickmando »

Croker epitomises why this club is so mediocre.

No club in the league would pay/value him anywhere near what we do.

Sentiment of him being local/being highly capped/being a point scorer... these things are “nice” but will committing a large chunk of our salary cap to a run of the mill centre win us a premiership???

Other clubs answer this question quite differently to us

(As much as I love rapana as a player - this question probably applies to him as a winger as well)
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Rickmando
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Rickmando »

Billy Walker wrote: May 25, 2019, 10:39 pm
LastRaider wrote: May 25, 2019, 6:30 pm
gergreg wrote:We can't lose those games if we want to be serious contenders. **** attitude today and boy does Croker need to fix his defence. I've held off commenting the last few weeks but his defensive reads this year are bad, real bad. Now I'm not for a moment suggesting he be dropped or moved he just has to be better. He jams in far too often and leaves his winger high and dry every bloody time. He is a massive ball watcher. He needs to fix it.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
If we are going to retain him, he needs to go the wing


Sent from my iPhone using The Greenhouse
In Mounties - he hasn’t got it. He’s a good player but has never been a great player and he will never play Origin or win a premiership. Let’s find a good Centre.
We don’t actually need a good Centre. We just need a serviceable one that is good value for money. This frees up cash for literally every other position... Centre is the least impactful position in modern rugby league and it should be paid that way
Billy Walker
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Billy Walker »

Rickmando wrote: May 26, 2019, 12:23 am Croker epitomises why this club is so mediocre.

No club in the league would pay/value him anywhere near what we do.

Sentiment of him being local/being highly capped/being a point scorer... these things are “nice” but will committing a large chunk of our salary cap to a run of the mill centre win us a premiership???

Other clubs answer this question quite differently to us

(As much as I love rapana as a player - this question probably applies to him as a winger as well)
Amen! I couldn’t agree more.
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Woodgers
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Woodgers »

The other point I forgot to make is every time we lose a match you hear people saying things like 'we just didn't turn up today' or 'our mental attitude lost us that' like teams that turn up and try hard win every game. That isn't the case. We didn't lose that match because our 17 didn't give it everything, the application was there. We lost the game because we're so one dimensional that we can't adapt to the game in front of us. If any side in the NRL turns up and tries to mow down the middle against the Cowboys who have the most effective middle forward in the game, Taumalolo, along with rep quality others like McLean, McGuire and Scott you're probably in for a rough day. The play should have been to get Tapine out there after 25 to play left edge and shuffle Young and try move them around a bit but also attempt to isolate those edges where we have Whitehead and Tapine vs Cooper and Dunn. And to vary it up try get Wighton running at Asiata who isn't a mobile 6 to either try do him with footwork or make him make decisions where Jack might go to CNK running off him, or Whitehead or Cotric. We're here talking about whether Williams should have caught a rank pass from Oldfield whereas we should be asking why the hell didn't Ricky see the way Cotric burned his opposite with early ball and footwork within the first 10 minutes and we didn't bother going back there? It's just flat out dumb. The coach and ballplayers need to be better at making other teams nullify our strengths rather than the opposite way around, especially at home.
We continue to **** about with blokes that are part of some fraternity. It's infuriating.
RedRaider
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by RedRaider »

Disappointing result but the game finished with the sides 3 tries each. I haven't seen the overall match stats but on the Fox broadcast they had us missing 26 tackles in the first half compared to the Cowboys 12. That is a massive advantage to give an opponent. I was amazed in the 'tackling' of Lolo that until the second half it was rare to see a player go around his legs. I mean between the knees and ankles. His post contact meters must have been amazing because our defenders were prepared to waltz with him rather than stop his forward momentum.

When we got to 20-16 with 20 minutes to go, I was hoping for a big finish but it just wasn't to be. Jack put in a kick which went dead. A promising break from CNK was put down by JC. But they were not the issues for me. It was the defence which let us down. The pick 'em up and drive 'em back defensive efforts were just not there. With about 10 minutes to go Tapine had a problem with his chest. Hopefully not a torn pec.

We will be without some Origin players and Hodgo together with our other injured players for next weeks against the Dogs. I hope they really work on the defence through the week to shut the Dogs out of the game. 7 days to get the D right.
twistedbydesign
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by twistedbydesign »

Woodgers wrote: May 26, 2019, 12:20 am I'm absolutely gutted with that loss, but I do think a lot of the comments here and elsewhere are a bit OTT.

The biggest issue which Twisted says above is the attack is completely awful and reliant on individual effort. There is no structure to anything and it is opportunistic. We have the chance with Hodgson out to get the ball to the halves early and try work some running plays because as I keep saying no one has a clue what Hodgson is going to do and even before the game Ricky was interviewed and said that Hodgson dictates what ball the halves get which lines up with what i've been saying the past month or so. It appears our idea of attack is let the hooker just dart out of dummy half and try isolate what he deems a poor defender with a bigger player receiving the ball late and trying to steamroll over the top of them. It's the height of basic football and so predictable that everyone is onto it in 2019 already. I've lost count in the past 2 weeks alone where the ball has gone to Horsbrough on the 4th, most of those when we're in the red zone. That's criminal. The fallout of that game was something that was always coming on here, we have a stinker and then we have a massive EDIT contest over why Williams shouldn't be selected like the issue of him vs Sezer is the main fault line and swapping the 2 would've been the difference. It isn't. The glaring problem is we have no structure to the attack so while we've all been sitting here for 2 months talking about the improved defence, the attack has been as bad as I can recall and the more you reflect, the more you realise what most of our points so far have come from either barge overs or BJ starting the season superbly.

Croker didn't have a good game but I find it weird that now all of a sudden his jamming in is a thing. It's always been a problem and bringing it up gets many people into a frenzy. It's the same with Williams but receives less overall critique in that both players are on the small side for NRL players so race up to get early contact to negate the deficiency. His physical attributes don't match up well as an NRL centre, that's how he compensates and people know it. It's not news. He has improved over time at getting more right than wrong so i'll put today down as a blemish but in the grand scheme of things, his defence will never be up there with the better NRL centres.
The Hodgson point is a tough one. On the one hand giving him the reigns to our attack makes a whole lot of sense - he is clearly the most accomplished playmaker in our squad. Put simply this team will never be anywhere near the top sides without Hodgson at his best, we don’t otherwise have guys in key positions who can elevate their game to this level.

That notwithstanding, there is no doubt that it is currently stunting our attack hugely as you point out Woodgers. Specifically, his red zone decision making hasn’t just been below what we need from him - it’s been flat out bad. It also leaves us in a massive hole when he’s not on the ground as we’ve based so much of our play around him being there.

It’s a troubling situation all in all, looking at the next month or so.
edwahu

Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by edwahu »

Hodgson isn't stunting our attack. It's overstated. Even yesterday we created 4 try scoring opportunities with him on the park vs one with Havili, which was just Havili scoring it himself. The previous two games we created enough to win as well.

Every week I also read about endless crash balls when the only game it was really that far above average was the Parra one, which was still our best performance this year. The last 5 or 6 weeks it hasn't even been above what most other teams do and stats show that the halves have got more than enough Footy during that period. if anything we should go back to Hodgson controlling even more.

CNK and the lack of a right side attack is a much bigger issue in attack at the moment.
Last edited by edwahu on May 26, 2019, 7:01 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Kryptonite »

gergreg wrote: May 25, 2019, 10:59 pm
Billy Walker wrote:
LastRaider wrote: May 25, 2019, 6:30 pm
gergreg wrote:We can't lose those games if we want to be serious contenders. **** attitude today and boy does Croker need to fix his defence. I've held off commenting the last few weeks but his defensive reads this year are bad, real bad. Now I'm not for a moment suggesting he be dropped or moved he just has to be better. He jams in far too often and leaves his winger high and dry every bloody time. He is a massive ball watcher. He needs to fix it.

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If we are going to retain him, he needs to go the wing


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In Mounties - he hasn’t got it. He’s a good player but has never been a great player and he will never play Origin or win a premiership. Let’s find a good Centre.
I like him. I like what he brings to the club. He will more than likely go down as our most capped player and one of the greatest point scorers in NRL history. You don't just turf a bloke like that.

He has in the past proven he can defend well but he isn't currently doing it. I don't sit in the inner bowl at games. I sit higher up and I see Croker ball watching too much, not counting numbers correctly and coming in too much and not shutting down the play. He cannot keep doing it, especially as he is jamming in when he doesn't actually need to. Today was really bad - a few times he was jamming in in front of his inside defender, its stupid and needs to stop. It's only been our decent scrambling defence which has meant it hasn't been as costly as it could have been. He needs coaching help.

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Croker EDIT and still not get dropped or shifted to the wing whilst RS is coach, when is everyone going to get their heads around that!
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Billy Walker »

Kryptonite wrote: May 26, 2019, 6:56 am
gergreg wrote: May 25, 2019, 10:59 pm
Billy Walker wrote:
LastRaider wrote: May 25, 2019, 6:30 pm
gergreg wrote:We can't lose those games if we want to be serious contenders. **** attitude today and boy does Croker need to fix his defence. I've held off commenting the last few weeks but his defensive reads this year are bad, real bad. Now I'm not for a moment suggesting he be dropped or moved he just has to be better. He jams in far too often and leaves his winger high and dry every bloody time. He is a massive ball watcher. He needs to fix it.

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If we are going to retain him, he needs to go the wing


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In Mounties - he hasn’t got it. He’s a good player but has never been a great player and he will never play Origin or win a premiership. Let’s find a good Centre.
I like him. I like what he brings to the club. He will more than likely go down as our most capped player and one of the greatest point scorers in NRL history. You don't just turf a bloke like that.

He has in the past proven he can defend well but he isn't currently doing it. I don't sit in the inner bowl at games. I sit higher up and I see Croker ball watching too much, not counting numbers correctly and coming in too much and not shutting down the play. He cannot keep doing it, especially as he is jamming in when he doesn't actually need to. Today was really bad - a few times he was jamming in in front of his inside defender, its stupid and needs to stop. It's only been our decent scrambling defence which has meant it hasn't been as costly as it could have been. He needs coaching help.

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Croker EDIT and still not get dropped or shifted to the wing whilst RS is coach, when is everyone going to get their heads around that!
Of course! I mean why would you drop him? We can keep selecting him for the next 5 years and see if he can set a host of personal records. He won’t lead us to any team success in that time but somehow we can take happiness from his personal achievements. The guy is the biggest myth in the NRL. He shouldn’t be in first grade yet his band of merry supporters actually seem to believe there is a conspiracy he’s not being selected for the blues.
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Rickmando wrote: May 26, 2019, 12:23 am Croker epitomises why this club is so mediocre.

No club in the league would pay/value him anywhere near what we do.

Sentiment of him being local/being highly capped/being a point scorer... these things are “nice” but will committing a large chunk of our salary cap to a run of the mill centre win us a premiership???

Other clubs answer this question quite differently to us

(As much as I love rapana as a player - this question probably applies to him as a winger as well)
Agree. Croker would be one of the top few paid centres in the game I'd imagine, but he isn't a game breaker or anywhere near as consistent as the others in his pay bracket. I can't remember too many matches when the game was there for the taking and he had an influence on the result, beyond goal kicking under pressure.

I would say Cotric is already showing more nous at setting up his winger.
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Green Taipan »

gergreg wrote: May 25, 2019, 10:59 pm
Billy Walker wrote:
LastRaider wrote: May 25, 2019, 6:30 pm
gergreg wrote:We can't lose those games if we want to be serious contenders. **** attitude today and boy does Croker need to fix his defence. I've held off commenting the last few weeks but his defensive reads this year are bad, real bad. Now I'm not for a moment suggesting he be dropped or moved he just has to be better. He jams in far too often and leaves his winger high and dry every bloody time. He is a massive ball watcher. He needs to fix it.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
If we are going to retain him, he needs to go the wing


Sent from my iPhone using The Greenhouse
In Mounties - he hasn’t got it. He’s a good player but has never been a great player and he will never play Origin or win a premiership. Let’s find a good Centre.
I like him. I like what he brings to the club. He will more than likely go down as our most capped player and one of the greatest point scorers in NRL history. You don't just turf a bloke like that.

He has in the past proven he can defend well but he isn't currently doing it. I don't sit in the inner bowl at games. I sit higher up and I see Croker ball watching too much, not counting numbers correctly and coming in too much and not shutting down the play. He cannot keep doing it, especially as he is jamming in when he doesn't actually need to. Today was really bad - a few times he was jamming in in front of his inside defender, its stupid and needs to stop. It's only been our decent scrambling defence which has meant it hasn't been as costly as it could have been. He needs coaching help.

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When we get a decent coach he might get the help!
It's a simple game; tackle, back-up, pass, hold the ball! What did I say? "Hold the bloody ball!!"
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Green Taipan »

twistedbydesign wrote: May 25, 2019, 11:43 pm Very ordinary. For all the quotes from players about our different attitude this year that was a very flat performance, reminiscent of many from recent seasons.

It goes without saying that the loss of Bateman, Leilua and Rapana is really hurting us, but to me it touches on a larger point. We’re still far too reliant on individual brilliance - winning games is contingent on players doing freakish things to bring us points. In spite of the horrors of the first 60 mins, we still had plenty of chances to get back into the game at the end and our attack was laughably pedestrian. Awful as he was today, and limited as he is in general, I don’t believe this is exclusively a Sam Williams issue.
Exactly! Top sides have structures, set-plays and a winning culture. So when they need to replace a player for whatever reason, the replacement slots straight in and knows what page of the playbook to execute. Ricky's coaching doesn't seem to encompass any of these fundamentals. He seem to rely on individual talent and ad hoc plays. Nothing illustrates this more clearly than the comedy of errors that passes for our red zone attack. No structure, no set-play but plenty of players running around like headless chickens with concrete boots.
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Woodgers »

edwahu wrote: May 26, 2019, 6:49 am Hodgson isn't stunting our attack. It's overstated. Even yesterday we created 4 try scoring opportunities with him on the park vs one with Havili, which was just Havili scoring it himself. The previous two games we created enough to win as well.

Every week I also read about endless crash balls when the only game it was really that far above average was the Parra one, which was still our best performance this year. The last 5 or 6 weeks it hasn't even been above what most other teams do and stats show that the halves have got more than enough Footy during that period. if anything we should go back to Hodgson controlling even more.

CNK and the lack of a right side attack is a much bigger issue in attack at the moment.
Agree to disagree Ed. I think the try scoring chances comparison is a long bow. Hodgson might be our most creative player but the broader issue is no one has the slightest idea what he's going to do so it is confusing everything. He needs to try simplify rather than try do everything which is what is happening. Ricky has thrown him the keys which makes sense but he also needs to monitor the situation and recognise that doing this has a domino effect on the other playmakers.
We continue to **** about with blokes that are part of some fraternity. It's infuriating.
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Botman »

Bad teams blame their best players for lack of success.

Once Hodgson went off the park yesterday the only time we looked like we had any idea what we were doing was when Havili was running direct out of hooker
What little organisation and structure we have went off the park with Hodgson

If Hodgson is out, I think you’re going to find out in a real hurry fans blaming the halfbacks terrible play on Hodgson are wildly off the mark
Last edited by Botman on May 26, 2019, 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Gazman »



I’ve jumped on the thread late after the 3 hour drive back to Sydney last night - so apologies if this has already been said, but Williams was a passenger yesterday. I really thought he would try take the game on in the second half but he rarely took the line on and just seemed content with distributing the ball?!? And CNK really needs to develop a passing game. It’s so clunky when he gets it wide and there is nothing happening for him individually!



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Re: 2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

Post by Northern Raider »

I wasn't shocked by this result. Cowboys been playing OK and our guys were a bit flat after putting in a big effort last week.

The ladder is quite congested from 4th down to 11th with only 2 points between them all. Next few rounds will be very important for consolidating our position.
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