Wiki Special wrote:At full strength which forward do we feel misses out? Obviously Papa, Hodgson, Sia, J. Bateman, Whitehead and Tapine are givens. Lui and Sutton have played great this year. Havili provides value in that he can play hooker. Young and Horsburgh have been outstanding as rookies.
Obviously all won't be fit every week but if so someone is going to be very unlucky. Or if we keep a back on the bench two players will be very unlucky.
Yep, the rookies have proven they are first grade players. The ceiling is up to them, they could be anything at this rate, superstars
Coastalraider wrote:The biggest concern I have moving forward is that the style of play we are going wit this year is very very taxing - I’d like to look at a stat of how many teams have injuries after playing the raiders, and how many teams have a win after playing the raiders. From the little of other games I have seen this year, I’d say playing us is one of, if not the most physical match of the year. High pace, very high impact in collision.
It’s going to be hard to keep that intensity for another 20 weeks.
We have left a trail of destruction in our wake, raiders playing hard, like they used to. Great to see again
Wiki Special wrote: ↑May 19, 2019, 4:18 pm
At full strength which forward do we feel misses out? Obviously Papa, Hodgson, Sia, J. Bateman, Whitehead and Tapine are givens. Lui and Sutton have played great this year. Havili provides value in that he can play hooker. Young and Horsburgh have been outstanding as rookies.
Obviously all won't be fit every week but if so someone is going to be very unlucky. Or if we keep a back on the bench two players will be very unlucky.
I doubt the back on the bench will keep up once we get Bateman or Tapine back. We'll be able to shift a second rower when a back goes down.
While the "Simonsson roving middle" tactic sounds like a great idea it doesn't seem like it's practically workable.
My Round 15 side would be:
1. CNK
2. Oldfield
3. Croker
4. Cotric
5. Rapana
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Papalli
9. Hodgson
10. Lui
11. Whitehead
12. Bateman
13. Sutton
14. Havili
15. Horsburgh
16. Soliola
17. Tapine
I picked Oldfield over Simonsson for the bigger body. The talent is there but Simo looks like he needs another pre-season or at least in the short term needs to get to the ground quicker.
Tapine on the bench due to the lack of footy. He comes into the starting side after a few weeks and either Lui or Sutton drop to bench depending on form.
Horsburgh on the bench over Young as he provides more impact.
Young as first choice backup to any forward going down through injury or form.
edwahu wrote: ↑May 19, 2019, 8:38 pm
Young feels undroppable to me at the moment. When a young player is on a roll like him you see how far it goes.
Hmmm he was pulled back to Mounties once after some solid but 6/10 performances (fine for a bench rookie) but you're right he really showed something different vs Souths.
It may be better to leave Kris off the bench and keep Young in the mix- or start young and work Tapine off the bench (is he due back? I keep hearing different mail) than drop him right after he's just really getting started.
If it comes to it, I think Hors has shown more but Young looks the more solid of the 2- Hors could have gone either way with a couple of those ptb penalties and that's been in his game from day 1.
Do you feel he's shown more than Hors- in terms of hits, yards, attacking threat though?
I think they are pretty close performance wise but playing different spots. Horsburgh got luck with one ptb but he hasn't had an error since the Titans game and only 2 penalties since the Storm when Ricky called him out on it. I think the worries on his discipline are a bit overstated.
As I mentioned I think Horsburgh is fighting Havilli for the 2nd middle spot and winning at the moment.
edwahu wrote: ↑May 19, 2019, 10:51 pm
I think they are pretty close performance wise but playing different spots. Horsburgh got luck with one ptb but he hasn't had an error since the Titans game and only 2 penalties since the Storm when Ricky called him out on it. I think the worries on his discipline are a bit overstated.
As I mentioned I think Horsburgh is fighting Havilli for the 2nd middle spot and winning at the moment.
I am 99% sure Ricky isn't going to drop Havili who has been good all year, is the most experienced and versatile of the 3 and is a genuine hooker utility not edge/middle. Not to keep 2 rookies on the bench instead.
Wiki Special wrote:At full strength which forward do we feel misses out? Obviously Papa, Hodgson, Sia, J. Bateman, Whitehead and Tapine are givens. Lui and Sutton have played great this year. Havili provides value in that he can play hooker. Young and Horsburgh have been outstanding as rookies.
Obviously all won't be fit every week but if so someone is going to be very unlucky. Or if we keep a back on the bench two players will be very unlucky.
Yep, the rookies have proven they are first grade players. The ceiling is up to them, they could be anything at this rate, superstars
edwahu wrote: ↑May 19, 2019, 10:51 pm
I think they are pretty close performance wise but playing different spots. Horsburgh got luck with one ptb but he hasn't had an error since the Titans game and only 2 penalties since the Storm when Ricky called him out on it. I think the worries on his discipline are a bit overstated.
As I mentioned I think Horsburgh is fighting Havilli for the 2nd middle spot and winning at the moment.
I am 99% sure Ricky isn't going to drop Havili who has been good all year, is the most experienced and versatile of the 3 and is a genuine hooker utility not edge/middle. Not to keep 2 rookies on the bench instead.
Finally some sense. Havili is not being dropped nor should he be.
edwahu wrote: ↑May 19, 2019, 10:51 pm
I think they are pretty close performance wise but playing different spots. Horsburgh got luck with one ptb but he hasn't had an error since the Titans game and only 2 penalties since the Storm when Ricky called him out on it. I think the worries on his discipline are a bit overstated.
As I mentioned I think Horsburgh is fighting Havilli for the 2nd middle spot and winning at the moment.
I am 99% sure Ricky isn't going to drop Havili who has been good all year, is the most experienced and versatile of the 3 and is a genuine hooker utility not edge/middle. Not to keep 2 rookies on the bench instead.
Finally some sense. Havili is not being dropped nor should he be.
Havili stays for now, no way in hell you drop him and don't have a guy on the bench that can cover hooker and he'll be very unlucky to get dropped at all, but once Bateman returns he may miss out due to the fact that at a pinch Bateman can cover hooker in an emergency if Hodgson gets injured
edwahu wrote: ↑May 19, 2019, 10:51 pm
I think they are pretty close performance wise but playing different spots. Horsburgh got luck with one ptb but he hasn't had an error since the Titans game and only 2 penalties since the Storm when Ricky called him out on it. I think the worries on his discipline are a bit overstated.
As I mentioned I think Horsburgh is fighting Havilli for the 2nd middle spot and winning at the moment.
I am 99% sure Ricky isn't going to drop Havili who has been good all year, is the most experienced and versatile of the 3 and is a genuine hooker utility not edge/middle. Not to keep 2 rookies on the bench instead.
Finally some sense. Havili is not being dropped nor should he be.
Havili stays for now, and he'll be very unlucky to get dropped but once Bateman returns he may miss out due to the fact that at a pinch Bateman can cover hooker in an emergency if Hodgson gets injured
What evidence do we have that Bateman can play hooker? It would also significantly weaken that edge to move Bateman. Havili stays on the bench, we need him to.
edwahu wrote: ↑May 19, 2019, 10:51 pm
I think they are pretty close performance wise but playing different spots. Horsburgh got luck with one ptb but he hasn't had an error since the Titans game and only 2 penalties since the Storm when Ricky called him out on it. I think the worries on his discipline are a bit overstated.
As I mentioned I think Horsburgh is fighting Havilli for the 2nd middle spot and winning at the moment.
I am 99% sure Ricky isn't going to drop Havili who has been good all year, is the most experienced and versatile of the 3 and is a genuine hooker utility not edge/middle. Not to keep 2 rookies on the bench instead.
Finally some sense. Havili is not being dropped nor should he be.
Havili stays for now, and he'll be very unlucky to get dropped but once Bateman returns he may miss out due to the fact that at a pinch Bateman can cover hooker in an emergency if Hodgson gets injured
What evidence do we have that Bateman can play hooker? It would also significantly weaken that edge to move Bateman. Havili stays on the bench, we need him to.
Fairly certain he's played there for England(last part of the test against the kiwis in Denver) and possibly in Super league, the raiders website said as much when we first signed him, you'd only move him if there was an injury
Check out some of the highlights from our newest signing John Bateman. The England international can play in the second-row, in the Centres and has even spent time playing at Hooker!
I'm going off the minutes. Since Horsburgh came back Havili has played 22, 23 and 15 vs 23, 38, 35 for Horsburgh. Clearly Havili is trending down and Horsburgh is preferred as the 2nd middle forward.
Yes Havili provides cover for hooker, but that's injury cover only with Hodgo playing 80. I think it's not that important, especially if Simonsson is on the bench. I am sure he could go to dummy half in an emergency with Bateman defending in the middle.
Havili is also the injury cover for the halves as we would see hodgo shuffle out. Havili is a diferebt body shape middle who gives us plenty of options. Hes the lock in 14 every week
simo wrote: ↑May 20, 2019, 8:11 am
Havili is also the injury cover for the halves as we would see hodgo shuffle out. Havili is a diferebt body shape middle who gives us plenty of options. Hes the lock in 14 every week
At full strength and fitness who misses out then? If the back on the bench persists, Havili is a must and Tapine starts then only one of Sutton, Horsburgh, Young can make it.
edwahu wrote: ↑May 20, 2019, 7:42 am
I'm going off the minutes. Since Horsburgh came back Havili has played 22, 23 and 15 vs 23, 38, 35 for Horsburgh. Clearly Havili is trending down and Horsburgh is preferred as the 2nd middle forward.
Yes Havili provides cover for hooker, but that's injury cover only with Hodgo playing 80. I think it's not that important, especially if Simonsson is on the bench. I am sure he could go to dummy half in an emergency with Bateman defending in the middle.
I agree with this. With everyone on deck Havilli gets squeezed out for mine.
I honestly have no idea how people have Tarps in the middle and Bateman on the edge. Bateman has proven he plays just as well up the guts and Tapine is CLEARLY an edge player.
The Rickman wrote: ↑May 20, 2019, 10:09 am
I honestly have no idea how people have Tarps in the middle and Bateman on the edge. Bateman has proven he plays just as well up the guts and Tapine is CLEARLY an edge player.
I disagree. Tapine has played well on an edge, no doubt. But I feel Bateman has been better in attack and defence on an edge. For mine Tapine isn't as quick laterally so I prefer him defending in the middle. Just a personal preference, respect your opinion too.
The Rickman wrote: ↑May 20, 2019, 10:09 am
I honestly have no idea how people have Tarps in the middle and Bateman on the edge. Bateman has proven he plays just as well up the guts and Tapine is CLEARLY an edge player.
I disagree. Tapine has played well on an edge, no doubt. But I feel Bateman has been better in attack and defence on an edge. For mine Tapine isn't as quick laterally so I prefer him defending in the middle. Just a personal preference, respect your opinion too.
The Rickman wrote: ↑May 20, 2019, 10:09 am
I honestly have no idea how people have Tarps in the middle and Bateman on the edge. Bateman has proven he plays just as well up the guts and Tapine is CLEARLY an edge player.
I disagree. Tapine has played well on an edge, no doubt. But I feel Bateman has been better in attack and defence on an edge. For mine Tapine isn't as quick laterally so I prefer him defending in the middle. Just a personal preference, respect your opinion too.
The Rickman wrote: ↑May 20, 2019, 10:09 am
I honestly have no idea how people have Tarps in the middle and Bateman on the edge. Bateman has proven he plays just as well up the guts and Tapine is CLEARLY an edge player.
I reckon Batemans form was slightly better on the edge compared to the middle though he's a gun wherever he plays, but I reckon we looked a better team overall with some more size in the middle when Sutton moved to lock so i'd really like to see us have a look at Tapine in that middle role with Bateman on the edge
The Rickman wrote: ↑May 20, 2019, 10:09 am
I honestly have no idea how people have Tarps in the middle and Bateman on the edge. Bateman has proven he plays just as well up the guts and Tapine is CLEARLY an edge player.
For me Bateman is simply a better defender than Tapine out wide. Tarps has played fine in the middle whenever required to do so. I'm happier with Sammy and our right edge holding together more than I am with the extra attack having Tapine out wide would add.
- Havili is an absolute locked down player in this team unless he absolutely falls to bits. I think once our injured forwards come back his role can and hopefully will be decreased.
But Jesus Christ guys imagine leaving him out for a 4th forward and Hodgson getting sent or failing an HIA in the 5th minute. Seriously think about it guys.
- also talk of carrying a back on the bench when Bateman (specifically) and Tapine are back is absurd imo. That’s the only reason we’re carrying one now. Stuart doesn’t want to use Hunt, Guler, Collins or Bateman if he can help it by the looks and Murchie is injured too.
- I don’t think Sutton is fighting it out with Horsburgh or Young either I think he’s picked well before them. I’d say if our pack gets back to full strength Young and Horsburgh fight it out for the 4th bench spot.
On Tapine. We really could use him for round 12 without Papalii.