Williams or Sezer?

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gangrenous
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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by gangrenous » May 13, 2019, 6:16 am

Northern Raider wrote:
gangrenous wrote:
May 12, 2019, 10:27 pm
edwahu wrote: What does Williams offer over Sezer that makes up for the gap in their defense?
Wins?
Was brought up earlier. Stats don't support the theory.
Using games for Williams that are how many years old? Image

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by Beejay » May 13, 2019, 7:41 am

What are we even doing here?
Sam is a giant red flag in the defensive line, and any half worth their salt works a play to isolate him for excellent results. Cleary and Maloney weren’t able to do it so we got a week off last week.
I’ve been through enough of this with Austin. I cannit take anymah

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by edwahu » May 13, 2019, 7:46 am

Williams record is 10-11 over the last 2 years, Sezer's is 9-11. So no major difference.

For mine Sam needed to back up last week and defend well yesterday and he didn't. At least he is more inconsistent than straight out bad this year, but for mine he just doesn't hit the mark required for first grade. It's Austin again.

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by PigRickman » May 13, 2019, 8:31 am

I honestly wouldnt drop Williams
Every time he's had a game like this this year, he's bounced back the next week with a relative (for him) strong defensive game. No point wasting that!
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by PigRickman » May 13, 2019, 8:36 am

Roger Kenworthy wrote:
May 13, 2019, 5:04 am
edwahu wrote:
May 12, 2019, 10:14 pm
FROG wrote:
May 12, 2019, 9:49 pm
You blokes are taking the piss right. I continue to ask what Sezer will offer that is so appealing? If defence is the only metric then play neither of them. Williams will and should keep his place in the side next week.
People keep saying it. First grade quality defense.

What does Williams offer over Sezer that makes up for the gap in their defense?
Kicking and not reacting like a headless chicken when put under pressure are the main two for mine.
How does this get quantified?
Like what aspect of our attack has been improved by Sam Williams " not reacting like a headless chicken when put under pressure"?
Im not super pumped about him keeping a cool head by turning the ball back in to front rowers for hit ups on tackle 4.

As for his kicking, i simply haven't seen it. Short kicking has been horribly inconsistent and you could count the quality short kicks on your hands, and his long kicking, that one 40/20 aside, has been abysmal and served only to set our opposition up on their 30 and 40 virtually every time.

If that's what we're getting in a trade off for his defence... marrrone.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by Roger Kenworthy » May 13, 2019, 8:51 am

PigRickman wrote:
May 13, 2019, 8:36 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote:
May 13, 2019, 5:04 am
edwahu wrote:
May 12, 2019, 10:14 pm
FROG wrote:
May 12, 2019, 9:49 pm
You blokes are taking the piss right. I continue to ask what Sezer will offer that is so appealing? If defence is the only metric then play neither of them. Williams will and should keep his place in the side next week.
People keep saying it. First grade quality defense.

What does Williams offer over Sezer that makes up for the gap in their defense?
Kicking and not reacting like a headless chicken when put under pressure are the main two for mine.
How does this get quantified?
Like what aspect of our attack has been improved by Sam Williams " not reacting like a headless chicken when put under pressure"?
Im not super pumped about him keeping a cool head by turning the ball back in to front rowers for hit ups on tackle 4.

As for his kicking, i simply haven't seen it. Short kicking has been horribly inconsistent and you could count the quality short kicks on your hands, and his long kicking, that one 40/20 aside, has been abysmal and served only to set our opposition up on their 30 and 40 virtually every time.

If that's what we're getting in a trade off for his defence... marrrone.
Probably along the same lines as Sezer's defensive prowess can't be quantified. We've had the 10th and 12th best defense in the comp the past couple of years. So while it's not really debatable that he is the superior defender it's also not as if we become some sort of uncrackable code when he plays.

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by PigRickman » May 13, 2019, 8:56 am

:shock:
Sezer's defensive improve can be quantified and has been in this very thread a number times via defensive stats.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by Roger Kenworthy » May 13, 2019, 9:07 am

I'm not a huge fan of defensive stats. Two of the most important parts of defense in the modern game aren't even recorded, metres conceded post contact and speed of play the ball after effective tackle. The bottom line is I just can't believe anyone would back Sezer to the extent you do after the dross he has come up with in his time here.

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by PigRickman » May 13, 2019, 9:13 am

Equally im stunned that anyone could back Williams the way you and others do after 87 games of the dross Williams has delivered over not one, not two but now three stints at this club.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by Roger Kenworthy » May 13, 2019, 9:19 am

Neither are good options. Williams has deserved to retain his spot up until this point based on the low performance standard in 2017 and 2018, but if Sezer is back there this weekend I won't have any issue with that.

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by Northern Raider » May 13, 2019, 9:29 am

Agree that neither are fantastic options.
Right now Williams has had a fair chance to lock down a spot this season. He hasn't done that and really only has our W/L record backing him. I'd be inclined to keep him there right now but is it not reasonable for Sezer to be given a similar chance? He's only had the 2 games before injury. A good performance vs Titans followed by a poor one vs Storm. If we judged all our squad on that Storm game we wouldn't have too many left in 1st grade.
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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by PigRickman » May 13, 2019, 10:00 am

To me it comes down to this, Sam Williams was sold as an upgrade in attack, enough so that it would cover his defence. It hasnt happened. He's not proven to be anything above maybe a minor upgrade on Sezer in attack.

We lost that game yesterday for a myriad of reasons, one of which was piss poor defence in the opening half, and look if you lose on bad defense so be it but at least make them work for it. That ****, coming out of half time, when if we wanted to win we NEEDED to be first to score... i mean that's just a lay up, if you're not providing significant upgrade in attack, you'd damn well better not be giving the roosters lay ups coming out of the half like that. And he's consistently giving up tries like that. A one off, fine. But that's not what this is.

Both stink, neither will be first choice halves next year, one will likely be gone. But if we gotta play with one right now, give me the guy who at least makes them earn points instead of hand it to them.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by Keghead » May 13, 2019, 10:30 am

PigRickman wrote:
May 13, 2019, 10:00 am
To me it comes down to this, Sam Williams was sold as an upgrade in attack, enough so that it would cover his defence. It hasnt happened. He's not proven to be anything above maybe a minor upgrade on Sezer in attack.

We lost that game yesterday for a myriad of reasons, one of which was piss poor defence in the opening half, and look if you lose on bad defense so be it but at least make them work for it. That ****, coming out of half time, when if we wanted to win we NEEDED to be first to score... i mean that's just a lay up, if you're not providing significant upgrade in attack, you'd damn well better not be giving the roosters lay ups coming out of the half like that. And he's consistently giving up tries like that. A one off, fine. But that's not what this is.

Both stink, neither will be first choice halves next year, one will likely be gone. But if we gotta play with one right now, give me the guy who at least makes them earn points instead of hand it to them.
So if people don't agree will they be unfriended ? :lol:

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by PigRickman » May 13, 2019, 12:05 pm

Keggy, this isn’t Facebook my man
It’s an open dialogue on a public forum

I understand you really enjoy some mild Facebook stalking but you can’t just make that your entire shtick
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by T_R » May 13, 2019, 1:48 pm

The internet is hard for our old friend Keggy.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by Matt » May 13, 2019, 4:45 pm

OK, time to circle back to the thread topic - Williams or Sezer.
Leave the rest alone.
Thanks.

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by Kryptonite » May 13, 2019, 5:29 pm

Matt wrote:
May 13, 2019, 4:45 pm
OK, time to circle back to the thread topic - Williams or Sezer.
Leave the rest alone.
Thanks.
" Labor or Liberal" il take the Shooters Party
" Williams or Sezer" il take Hingano

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by FROG » May 14, 2019, 3:32 am

Ok boys. I figured out how to get stats from nsw cup players. Here are hingano's and Sezers stats

Hingano
8 games
3 forced drop outs
1 Tries
6 Try sssists
6 Line break assists
7 Offloads
125 tackles at 83% Tackle efficiency

Sezer
3 games
5 forced drop outs
0 Tries
0 Try sssists
1 Line break assists
0 offloads
35 tackle at 80.7% Tackle efficiency

In light of the above, apart from forced drop out stats, hingano is superior to Sezer in every facet of the game including defence. This is the point I've been trying to make. Saying Williams should be dropped for Sezer without considering how Sezer is going is flawed thinking. Sezer is playing poorly this year. I don't watch reggies games but few could argue that those stats are incredibly uninspiring for a first grade half. He should not be playing first grade until he finds form that warrants such a decision being made

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by FROG » May 14, 2019, 3:32 am

Ok boys. I figured out how to get stats from nsw cup players. Here are hingano's and Sezers stats

Hingano
8 games
3 forced drop outs
1 Tries
6 Try sssists
6 Line break assists
7 Offloads
125 tackles at 83% Tackle efficiency

Sezer
3 games
5 forced drop outs
0 Tries
0 Try sssists
1 Line break assists
0 offloads
35 tackle at 80.7% Tackle efficiency

In light of the above, apart from forced drop out stats, hingano is superior to Sezer in every facet of the game including defence. This is the point I've been trying to make. Saying Williams should be dropped for Sezer without considering how Sezer is going is flawed thinking. Sezer is playing poorly this year. I don't watch reggies games but few could argue that those stats are incredibly uninspiring for a first grade half. He should not be playing first grade until he finds form that warrants such a decision being made

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by Northern Raider » May 14, 2019, 8:46 am

Take those stats with a grain of salt. Someboby brought it up earlier from a NSW Cup game for Sezer. It was pointed out that even the highlight video showed they were inaccurate. I've not seen any Mounties games this year so can't make any judgment on form based on the eye test.
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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by Green eyed Mick » May 14, 2019, 9:20 am

Sezer hasn't earned a spot in FG and dropping Williams as a scapegoat for the errors and ill-discipline of our middles won't fix anything.

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by Northern Raider » May 14, 2019, 9:29 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 14, 2019, 9:20 am
Sezer hasn't earned a spot in FG and dropping Williams as a scapegoat for the errors and ill-discipline of our middles won't fix anything.
Did Williams "earn" his spot to beging with? He was an injury replacement for Sezer. Hardly set the world on fire since so its not a case of scapegoating. It would be simple case of your original starting half returning to first grade.
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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by Green eyed Mick » May 14, 2019, 1:57 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
May 14, 2019, 9:29 am
Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 14, 2019, 9:20 am
Sezer hasn't earned a spot in FG and dropping Williams as a scapegoat for the errors and ill-discipline of our middles won't fix anything.
Did Williams "earn" his spot to beging with? He was an injury replacement for Sezer. Hardly set the world on fire since so its not a case of scapegoating. It would be simple case of your original starting half returning to first grade.
Yes. He was our best half in the trials and was excellent for Mounties before he was brought into the side.

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by Northern Raider » May 14, 2019, 2:07 pm

Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 14, 2019, 1:57 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
May 14, 2019, 9:29 am
Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 14, 2019, 9:20 am
Sezer hasn't earned a spot in FG and dropping Williams as a scapegoat for the errors and ill-discipline of our middles won't fix anything.
Did Williams "earn" his spot to beging with? He was an injury replacement for Sezer. Hardly set the world on fire since so its not a case of scapegoating. It would be simple case of your original starting half returning to first grade.
Yes. He was our best half in the trials and was excellent for Mounties before he was brought into the side.
Shame he didn't carry such excellent form into first grade then.
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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by PigRickman » May 14, 2019, 2:38 pm

Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 14, 2019, 1:57 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
May 14, 2019, 9:29 am
Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 14, 2019, 9:20 am
Sezer hasn't earned a spot in FG and dropping Williams as a scapegoat for the errors and ill-discipline of our middles won't fix anything.
Did Williams "earn" his spot to beging with? He was an injury replacement for Sezer. Hardly set the world on fire since so its not a case of scapegoating. It would be simple case of your original starting half returning to first grade.
Yes. He was our best half in the trials and was excellent for Mounties before he was brought into the side.
The only time he did anything worth note in a trial was when anyone worth a pinch of FG **** was taken off the park :lol:
And clearly the coach disagreed with the idea he was our best half in the trials. He didnt earn this spot, he was thrusted into due to injury and since being there the best that could said about him is the team has won consistently without needing him to do anything.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
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Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by The Rickman » May 14, 2019, 2:53 pm

This is such a circular argument, but I really believe that if Sezer had played every game this season we're sitting EXACTLY on the table where we are now.

Only difference is, Sezer might finally be playing with the potential we all know he has considering the whole squad has had an attitude adjustment.
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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by BVRaider » May 14, 2019, 3:34 pm

The Rickman wrote:
May 14, 2019, 2:53 pm
This is such a circular argument, but I really believe that if Sezer had played every game this season we're sitting EXACTLY on the table where we are now.

Only difference is, Sezer might finally be playing with the potential we all know he has considering the whole squad has had an attitude adjustment.
Agreed, Sezer reminds me of Bad luck Brian at times.

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by woppadingo » May 14, 2019, 6:18 pm

BVRaider wrote:
May 14, 2019, 3:34 pm
The Rickman wrote:
May 14, 2019, 2:53 pm
This is such a circular argument, but I really believe that if Sezer had played every game this season we're sitting EXACTLY on the table where we are now.

Only difference is, Sezer might finally be playing with the potential we all know he has considering the whole squad has had an attitude adjustment.
Agreed, Sezer reminds me of Bad luck Brian at times.
Cant disagree with any of that. Pity Williams defence against the Roosters didn't match the previous week.
For those proposing Hingano, how does he go at Halfback? isn't he a 5/8?

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by BadnMean » May 14, 2019, 6:37 pm

FROG wrote:
May 14, 2019, 3:32 am
Ok boys. I figured out how to get stats from nsw cup players. Here are hingano's and Sezers stats

Hingano
8 games
3 forced drop outs
1 Tries
6 Try sssists
6 Line break assists
7 Offloads
125 tackles at 83% Tackle efficiency

Sezer
3 games
5 forced drop outs
0 Tries
0 Try sssists
1 Line break assists
0 offloads
35 tackle at 80.7% Tackle efficiency

In light of the above, apart from forced drop out stats, hingano is superior to Sezer in every facet of the game including defence. This is the point I've been trying to make. Saying Williams should be dropped for Sezer without considering how Sezer is going is flawed thinking. Sezer is playing poorly this year. I don't watch reggies games but few could argue that those stats are incredibly uninspiring for a first grade half. He should not be playing first grade until he finds form that warrants such a decision being made
And maybe all the unfounded mockery Hingano gets on here for 3 games he was stuffed around out of positioning a floundering team should stop. Those look like pretty respectable numbers for a half. Yes in reserves but he's creating about a try a game + handy offloads and from memory creating about a chance/try a game statistically is quite good going for a half.

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by Seiffert82 » May 14, 2019, 6:45 pm

Interesting debate! :lol:

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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by Northern Raider » May 14, 2019, 7:42 pm

BadnMean wrote:
May 14, 2019, 6:37 pm
FROG wrote:
May 14, 2019, 3:32 am
Ok boys. I figured out how to get stats from nsw cup players. Here are hingano's and Sezers stats

Hingano
8 games
3 forced drop outs
1 Tries
6 Try sssists
6 Line break assists
7 Offloads
125 tackles at 83% Tackle efficiency

Sezer
3 games
5 forced drop outs
0 Tries
0 Try sssists
1 Line break assists
0 offloads
35 tackle at 80.7% Tackle efficiency

In light of the above, apart from forced drop out stats, hingano is superior to Sezer in every facet of the game including defence. This is the point I've been trying to make. Saying Williams should be dropped for Sezer without considering how Sezer is going is flawed thinking. Sezer is playing poorly this year. I don't watch reggies games but few could argue that those stats are incredibly uninspiring for a first grade half. He should not be playing first grade until he finds form that warrants such a decision being made
And maybe all the unfounded mockery Hingano gets on here for 3 games he was stuffed around out of positioning a floundering team should stop. Those look like pretty respectable numbers for a half. Yes in reserves but he's creating about a try a game + handy offloads and from memory creating about a chance/try a game statistically is quite good going for a half.
Having not seen the games I can only go on the highlight videos. This game in round 7 they both did some nice work. I'm assuming Hingano wasn't credited with the assist for the try at 36 sec mark. :)

https://www.nswrl.com.au/news/2019/04/2 ... --round-7/

One thing I noticed in this and the highlights of Rnd 8 vs Panthers. Both halves combining quite bit with good results. In the past Sezer always looked better when he and Austin combined more. Makes you think he's much better working with another half on both sides rather than playing left and right split halves.
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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by BadnMean » May 14, 2019, 8:41 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
May 14, 2019, 7:42 pm
BadnMean wrote:
May 14, 2019, 6:37 pm
FROG wrote:
May 14, 2019, 3:32 am
Ok boys. I figured out how to get stats from nsw cup players. Here are hingano's and Sezers stats

Hingano
8 games
3 forced drop outs
1 Tries
6 Try sssists
6 Line break assists
7 Offloads
125 tackles at 83% Tackle efficiency

Sezer
3 games
5 forced drop outs
0 Tries
0 Try sssists
1 Line break assists
0 offloads
35 tackle at 80.7% Tackle efficiency

In light of the above, apart from forced drop out stats, hingano is superior to Sezer in every facet of the game including defence. This is the point I've been trying to make. Saying Williams should be dropped for Sezer without considering how Sezer is going is flawed thinking. Sezer is playing poorly this year. I don't watch reggies games but few could argue that those stats are incredibly uninspiring for a first grade half. He should not be playing first grade until he finds form that warrants such a decision being made
And maybe all the unfounded mockery Hingano gets on here for 3 games he was stuffed around out of positioning a floundering team should stop. Those look like pretty respectable numbers for a half. Yes in reserves but he's creating about a try a game + handy offloads and from memory creating about a chance/try a game statistically is quite good going for a half.
Having not seen the games I can only go on the highlight videos. This game in round 7 they both did some nice work. I'm assuming Hingano wasn't credited with the assist for the try at 36 sec mark. :)

https://www.nswrl.com.au/news/2019/04/2 ... --round-7/

One thing I noticed in this and the highlights of Rnd 8 vs Panthers. Both halves combining quite bit with good results. In the past Sezer always looked better when he and Austin combined more. Makes you think he's much better working with another half on both sides rather than playing left and right split halves.
I've noticed the same whenever I've watched Mounties highlights- Sezer often acts as 2nd receiver in the old fashioned 5/8 role, Hingano often first receiver. I don't watch full games though so not sure if it is standard practice or not.

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Northern Raider
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Re: Williams or Sezer

Post by Northern Raider » May 14, 2019, 8:56 pm

BadnMean wrote:
May 14, 2019, 8:41 pm

I've noticed the same whenever I've watched Mounties highlights- Sezer often acts as 2nd receiver in the old fashioned 5/8 role, Hingano often first receiver. I don't watch full games though so not sure if it is standard practice or not.
Have a look at the highlights vs Penrith. Mounties 2nd try (10 sec) we see Sezer at 2nd receiver off a forward and HIngano sweeps around like a fullback to put the winger in. Looks like they mix it up a bit.

https://www.nswrl.com.au/news/2019/05/0 ... --round-8/
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afgtnk
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Re: Williams, Sezer or Hingaro??

Post by afgtnk » May 14, 2019, 11:58 pm

Ooooff. Not flaterring numbers there for Sezer, whichever way you look at it. If you're meant to be a first grade quality half, you should be tearing up reserve grade.

Indeed in the footage I've seen of late, Hingano does seem to be the standout player in the Mounties team.

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Re: Williams, Sezer or Hingaro??

Post by FROG » May 15, 2019, 6:04 am

I agree. I've certainly not written hingano off as a possible first grade half. I thought he was managed poorly last year and wasn't given the proper opportunity to demonstrate what he was capable of. If Williams is dropped right now hingano would be my pick for his replacement

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