Williams or Sezer?

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afgtnk
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by afgtnk »

If we're not looking to re-sign Sezer, and the difference between he and Williams is neglible, then it's the latter who should be getting the game time, not the former.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by simo »

afgtnk wrote: June 2, 2019, 5:31 pm If we're not looking to re-sign Sezer, and the difference between he and Williams is neglible, then it's the latter who should be getting the game time, not the former.
Its
Not
Negligible
.
Sezer
Is
Better
.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by afgtnk »

Instead of acting like a three year old child, explain how you think he's better. **** me.

FTR, the only thing Sezer is better at than Williams is defence and long passing.That's pretty much it.

So nope, he's not better. He's better to you because contrary to your earlier post, he's clearly your 'boi' and you feel obligated to defend him because you were one of turnips who backed him to the hilt when he arrived.

Add in the fact that other players either seem to play better alongside Williams, or want to play alongside him more, and it turns into a no contest - despite both of them still being garbage.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by edwahu »

Defence is a pretty big thing.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by gerg »

So if you concede that Sezer is a better defender and the difference between them is negligible. What is Williams better at?

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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by afgtnk »

All the other facets of being a halfback that I didn't mention?
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by afgtnk »

edwahu wrote: June 2, 2019, 6:12 pm Defence is a pretty big thing.
In that case, and given the majority acknowledge our current halfback options are dire (except for little simo and love obession for Sezer), why do we then give the 7 to a second rower like Bateman?.

If in fact defence is the be all and end all of halves play as it's seemingly being made to be on here.
Last edited by afgtnk on June 2, 2019, 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by gerg »

I disagree.

Williams has a better short kicking game. Sezer a better long kicking game and defence. Both have a **** running game and ball playing ability.

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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by simo »

The only thing williams has over sezer is the Man doen effect. You know how a team lifts to cover when a player gets sent to the bin? With sam on the field its like no ones out there in the seven jersey except when hes yelling at them befor he kicks for touch, 10 meters downfield
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by simo »

Little simo, good one, champ. Youve got zero read of the game besides hating sezer. Zero.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by gangrenous »

simo wrote:The only thing williams has over sezer is the Man doen effect. You know how a team lifts to cover when a player gets sent to the bin? With sam on the field its like no ones out there in the seven jersey except when hes yelling at them befor he kicks for touch, 10 meters downfield
That’s just silly.

Short kicking game Williams is streets ahead.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by edwahu »

afgtnk wrote: June 2, 2019, 6:22 pm
edwahu wrote: June 2, 2019, 6:12 pm Defence is a pretty big thing.
In that case, and given the majority acknowledge our current halfback options are dire (except for little simo and love obession for Sezer), why do we then give the 7 to a second rower like Bateman?.

If in fact defence is the be all and end all of halves play as it's seemingly being made to be on here.
Nobody has said that defense is all that matters. It is certainly the most important difference between these two players though.

An you know the difference with playing a second rower there. Although Bateman would probably be great at it.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Northern Raider »

afgtnk wrote: June 2, 2019, 6:22 pm
edwahu wrote: June 2, 2019, 6:12 pm Defence is a pretty big thing.
In that case, and given the majority acknowledge our current halfback options are dire (except for little simo and love obession for Sezer), why do we then give the 7 to a second rower like Bateman?.

If in fact defence is the be all and end all of halves play as it's seemingly being made to be on here.
You continually make excuses for Williams shortcomings but give no leeway to Sezer on anything. I'm starting to feel you're not completely impartial in your assessment. :hmmm
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by amiafish »

When Sezer makes an error, I smack myself on the forehead and scream at the TV, because there's some part of my brain that believes he could be doing better.

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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by -TW- »

O...kay then...

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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by RedRaider »

I didn't see the game against the Dogs but according to Fox Sports stats Sam made 31 tackles against the Dogs to Sezer's 14. I haven't seen any 'missed tackle' stats. So Sam's defensive workload was twice that of Sezer's in this game. That also has him with the fifth highest number of tackles among Raiders players for the second week in succession. Sam is listed with one 'try assist' to Sezer's zero. Sezer is listed with kicking an additional 120 mtrs over Sam and double Sams run meters. These stats can depend on amount of possession and the field position where the kicks are made. Again, I did not see the match so can't have an overall match opinion. What I can say though, is that Sam is getting through a high volume of defence for a half back.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by -TW- »

Missed 4, most in the team

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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by BadnMean »

RedRaider wrote: June 2, 2019, 11:34 pm I didn't see the game against the Dogs but according to Fox Sports stats Sam made 31 tackles against the Dogs to Sezer's 14. I haven't seen any 'missed tackle' stats. So Sam's defensive workload was twice that of Sezer's in this game. That also has him with the fifth highest number of tackles among Raiders players for the second week in succession. Sam is listed with one 'try assist' to Sezer's zero. Sezer is listed with kicking an additional 120 mtrs over Sam and double Sams run meters. These stats can depend on amount of possession and the field position where the kicks are made. Again, I did not see the match so can't have an overall match opinion. What I can say though, is that Sam is getting through a high volume of defence for a half back.
And that Dogs made 20m minimum every time they ran at Sam's side, even though he clung on until someone else made/finsihed the tackle eventually. He didn't get brushed, he was game. But they made yards for fun.

Sezer on the other hand was not Jack in killing people in tackles but he snuffed out a good number if moves for hero metres by nailing a good shot and generally being a solid body in defence. They didn't get much joy out of charging at Sezer unless Croker went AWOL. More galling when Sezer was clearly capable of making every 1 on 1 they threw at him. He didn't look troubled/clinging on, he looked like he was hitting.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by hrundi89 »

Sezer's initial contacts in tackles are a lot more effective that Williams'.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by edwahu »

RedRaider wrote: June 2, 2019, 11:34 pm I didn't see the game against the Dogs but according to Fox Sports stats Sam made 31 tackles against the Dogs to Sezer's 14. I haven't seen any 'missed tackle' stats. So Sam's defensive workload was twice that of Sezer's in this game. That also has him with the fifth highest number of tackles among Raiders players for the second week in succession. Sam is listed with one 'try assist' to Sezer's zero. Sezer is listed with kicking an additional 120 mtrs over Sam and double Sams run meters. These stats can depend on amount of possession and the field position where the kicks are made. Again, I did not see the match so can't have an overall match opinion. What I can say though, is that Sam is getting through a high volume of defence for a half back.
Williams made a lot of tackles because he was very heavily targeted. The edge made 120 tackles by itself, which would be one of the highest this year for any team.

To his credit he and that edge did a reasonable job of not letting points in.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Hazza »

Raiders_Pat wrote: June 2, 2019, 12:30 pm Sezer and Williams are virtually as crap as each other... with Sezer being the better player but his wage in comparison cancelling that out completely. I honestly couldn't give a damn which of these two make the team each week. Not at all saying Hingano is the answer but neither of those two are putting their hand up, surely Hingano deserves a run at some stage.
Nailed it. My thoughts exactly. They're both as **** as each other. If Jack Wighton is 6 I'm not sure it makes any difference if Sezer or Williams is 7. Same **** different smell.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by julian87 »

I think the one thing that Saturday’s game proves is that Sezer is not a five-eighth. He ran for the sake of running but he’s just not a creative 6. I don’t care what he thinks. He didn’t play pivot at the Gold Coast, he wore 6 and played halfback. It was the old Stewart/Watmough trick with him and Albert Kelly.

Just on this argument. I advocated Williams being given the chance he has because I thought he had enough attacking nous to create space for the right edge but it just hasn’t happened. Has had a couple of very shaky weeks too so I think the safer option of Sezer should happen for now.

In saying that though without Leilua to create over there on the right I think more freedom has to be given to the right backrower (be it Whitehead or Bateman) to become a creator rather than just a hole runner on that edge.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

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julian87 wrote: June 3, 2019, 11:27 am I think the one thing that Saturday’s game proves is that Sezer is not a five-eighth. He ran for the sake of running but he’s just not a creative 6. I don’t care what he thinks. He didn’t play pivot at the Gold Coast, he wore 6 and played halfback. It was the old Stewart/Watmough trick with him and Albert Kelly.

Just on this argument. I advocated Williams being given the chance he has because I thought he had enough attacking nous to create space for the right edge but it just hasn’t happened. Has had a couple of very shaky weeks too so I think the safer option of Sezer should happen for now.

In saying that though without Leilua to create over there on the right I think more freedom has to be given to the right backrower (be it Whitehead or Bateman) to become a creator rather than just a hole runner on that edge.
What is he then? As he's had about 50 games that proves he's also not a halfback.
It will be very interesting if he does get the 7 Jersey once Wightons back. With a natural ball running 5/8 and without a controlling creative hooker with Hodgson injured there'll be no excuses for him not control the game, his defense is undoubtedly better but I think the greater effect will be if he can improve the amount of good ball in space that Wighton gets
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by julian87 »

He’s a big bodied mediocre halfback imo. The more I’ve thought about it the more I think hes built like and just looks like a five-eighth. Virtually zilch about his game other than that indicates he’s a 6 rather than a 7 though for mine. His running game was more effective when younger but I think it regressing has more to do with hamstring injuries over the years rather than anything positional. His strengths are his attacking kicking and good passing game.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by gangrenous »

Attacking kicking? The guy who barely forced a drop out through 2017-2018?
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Coastalraider »

For me it is fairly simple.

Since Sezer has been in green, he has looked like a player trying to play to a structure he is uncomfortable with. He doesn't look to naturally ball play, run, kick or pass. He looks 'tight'. The one game I would say he looked to be playing freely was his first, when he was amazing until it was discovered he had a fractured eye socket. There have been glimpses of a confident player (basically when we played the dogs in the past) but he has never found a groove. Some say its because of the dominant 9, some say its because he didn't balance well with Austin/Williams/Jack at any point in time. Point is, he either isn't very good, or is not reaching potential. Time to move on.

Williams for me has always looked like a player who has a great footy mind and vision, but cant physically keep up with what he is trying to do. His defensive 'reads' aren't that much worse that many halves, he is just so small he cant make impact once he hits.

We are moving on for next year, with G Williams joining the British Invasion. So - what is best for right now, and what is best for the future? Jack has said he plays better with Sammy. So that is better for the future. Sammy is on low coin, and willing to accept his role as a spare half. Sezer wants to be starting and wants the money to match. So for me, Williams stays next year as solid backup. Sezer goes and frees up cap space.

There are strengths (some) and weaknesses (many) to both players wearing the 7 this year. Sammy seems to fit in better personality wise, and free Jack up to be the main focal point of the play. Sezer seems to have dropped motivation - from all reports he isn't dominating NSW cup like he should, and to me has always looked like a round peg in a square hole at the Raiders. He is stronger defensively, but I would switch Bateman to that edge in defence to pair with Sammy, and let him roam in attack, which to a point negates that issue.

Sammy for me, but its the best of a bad situation for sure.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Ronny P »

Did Hingano get injured yesterday also?


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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by greeneyed »

Didn’t play the second half yesterday.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Shezza »

For the rest of the year - Sezer easily. He's at least got some upside. You ain't winning a comp with Williams. There's so many things he does that are terrible. Kicking for touch - Someone like DCE kicks it miles down field. A good kick for touch from Williams gets about 10 metres. He lobs his kicks up to the full back who catches it all the time without any pressure on him at all. Defensive liability.

Sezer hasn't exactly been good for us, but he's got some upside opportunity which we need to give the comp a shake.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

I just can't fathom the idea that the difference between Williams and Sezer is going to make any difference in us winning a Premiership.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by amiafish »

I think the "Jack likes playing with Sammy" thing is more personality than anything else. Objectively speaking, Sezer can get the ball to his five-eighth quicker and better; he commits the defense better (defenders slide straight across Sam because they don't believe he will take on the line, and even if he did, they know they can stop him with an arm-shot), he passes more crisply, and he generally lets go of the ball without as much delay as Sam does.

Sezer has the potential to be a decent place-holder (net no losses, no gains) over the season. Unfortunately, Sam's defense is just not up to 1st Grade standard, despite his best efforts, and his running/passing game are both inferior to Sezer's. We can conceivably win with Sezer (he distributes to Jack most of the time, takes the odd punch run, focuses on his defense), but with Sam, the team starts with too much of a net deficit...we're playing catch-up before the kick-off.

Let's see if this post survives moderator (last one was 'too critical').
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Coastalraider »

Listen, I realise there are merits for both options - but do you think that Sezer playing for a future contract somewhere else will be happy to distribute to Jack, or do you think he will try to run the show and prove what he is capable of?? i think the latter, and I dont think thats a good thing.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by simo »

We are now worried that sezer will try his best if he gets the 7?
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Coastalraider »

simo wrote: June 3, 2019, 3:59 pm We are now worried that sezer will try his best if he gets the 7?
Hmm - yeah that doesn't sound right - I think he will try to be the dominant half, which will reduce the effectiveness of Jack, who has been playing WAY beyond my expectation.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by kiwi raider »

Coastalraider wrote: June 3, 2019, 4:02 pm
simo wrote: June 3, 2019, 3:59 pm We are now worried that sezer will try his best if he gets the 7?
Hmm - yeah that doesn't sound right - I think he will try to be the dominant half, which will reduce the effectiveness of Jack, who has been playing WAY beyond my expectation.
You could well be right if the Bulldogs game was anything to go by, Sezer seemed to run at every opportunity, problem was most of the time there was absolutely nothing on
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