Williams or Sezer?

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Re: Williams, Sezer or Hingaro??

Post by Raiders_Pat » May 15, 2019, 6:41 am

I'm with you guys. Unless Sezer picks up his reserve grade form in a major way, I'd rather see Hingano get a run before bringing Sezer back in. From all reports, Sezer isn't making the effort required to force his way back in to the team.

It's no secret that I don't rate Williams as a first grade half. I've said many times in the past that he's a back up half and should only be playing when we've got injuries. Pretty sure Ricky Stuart would be of a similar view. It's a massive let down that our first choice half can't perform consistently better than our back up who is a guy clearly not cut out for first grade week in, week out.

It frustrates me to see Williams play each week but I'm not sure I'd be any less frustrated with Sezer there instead, and I definitely don't think we should be rewarding somebody who was relegated to Mounties for nothing.

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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by julian87 » May 15, 2019, 8:54 am

Has Hingano even been named in a squad of 21 this season?
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.

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Re: Williams, Sezer or Hingaro??

Post by Northern Raider » May 15, 2019, 8:57 am

Raiders_Pat wrote:
May 15, 2019, 6:41 am
I'm with you guys. Unless Sezer picks up his reserve grade form in a major way, I'd rather see Hingano get a run before bringing Sezer back in. From all reports, Sezer isn't making the effort required to force his way back in to the team.

It's no secret that I don't rate Williams as a first grade half. I've said many times in the past that he's a back up half and should only be playing when we've got injuries. Pretty sure Ricky Stuart would be of a similar view. It's a massive let down that our first choice half can't perform consistently better than our back up who is a guy clearly not cut out for first grade week in, week out.

It frustrates me to see Williams play each week but I'm not sure I'd be any less frustrated with Sezer there instead, and I definitely don't think we should be rewarding somebody who was relegated to Mounties for nothing.
Whats wrong with his reserve grade form? Genuine question as I haven't seen any of the games and only have the highlights to go from.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by simo » May 15, 2019, 9:02 am

Basically all sammy needs to do to keep his spot in first grade is continue to not do anything while having poor to no defence. Sammy is allowed to do nothing on the field because thats the role hes been given, halves arent there to defend and hes a good guy. Sezer lost to melbourne all on his own and isnt a top one or 2 half in the comp
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Ronny P » May 15, 2019, 10:35 am

Surely Hingano and Sezers management look elsewhere when they have signed the New lord and saviour G Williams? Wouldn’t expect those guys to hang around and play reggies. What would happen then?


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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by The Rickman » May 15, 2019, 10:41 am

simo wrote:
May 15, 2019, 9:02 am
Basically all sammy needs to do to keep his spot in first grade is continue to not do anything while having poor to no defence. Sammy is allowed to do nothing on the field because thats the role hes been given, halves arent there to defend and hes a good guy. Sezer lost to melbourne all on his own and isnt a top one or 2 half in the comp
That basically seems to be the discussion, yep.
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Re: Williams, Sezer or Hingaro?

Post by Northern Raider » May 15, 2019, 1:43 pm

Haha, whoever changed the topic heading needs to check their spelling.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Coastalraider » May 15, 2019, 1:46 pm

julian87 wrote:
May 15, 2019, 8:54 am
Has Hingano even been named in a squad of 21 this season?
No, but we have got stronger depth in the outside backs this year so.....

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Re: Williams, Sezer or Hingaro?

Post by The Rickman » May 15, 2019, 1:51 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
May 15, 2019, 1:43 pm
Haha, whoever changed the topic heading needs to check their spelling.
Actually , I think it's perfect the way it is.
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Re: Williams, Sezer or Hingaro?

Post by Northern Raider » May 15, 2019, 1:54 pm

The Rickman wrote:
May 15, 2019, 1:51 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
May 15, 2019, 1:43 pm
Haha, whoever changed the topic heading needs to check their spelling.
Actually , I think it's perfect the way it is.
Next we'll have a topic on Jason Crocker's captaincy
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Re: Williams, Sezer or Hingaro?

Post by The Rickman » May 15, 2019, 2:02 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
May 15, 2019, 1:54 pm
The Rickman wrote:
May 15, 2019, 1:51 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
May 15, 2019, 1:43 pm
Haha, whoever changed the topic heading needs to check their spelling.
Actually , I think it's perfect the way it is.
Next we'll have a topic on Jason Crocker's captaincy
Makes about as much sense as a topic about how Croker can't kick.
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Re: Williams, Sezer or Hingaro?

Post by Northern Raider » May 15, 2019, 2:04 pm

The Rickman wrote:
May 15, 2019, 2:02 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
May 15, 2019, 1:54 pm
The Rickman wrote:
May 15, 2019, 1:51 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
May 15, 2019, 1:43 pm
Haha, whoever changed the topic heading needs to check their spelling.
Actually , I think it's perfect the way it is.
Next we'll have a topic on Jason Crocker's captaincy
Makes about as much sense as a topic about how Croker can't kick.
Who?
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Re: Williams, Sezer or Hingaro?

Post by The Rickman » May 15, 2019, 2:06 pm

Sorry, I meant Joran Cronker... our captain??
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Re: Williams, Sezer or Hingaro?

Post by Northern Raider » May 15, 2019, 2:36 pm

The Rickman wrote:
May 15, 2019, 2:06 pm
Sorry, I meant Joran Cronker... our captain??
OK with you now.

.....and its co-captain. You're forgetting Jon Hodgkinson.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Northern Raider » May 15, 2019, 3:12 pm

Title has been changed back again. Looks like Hingaro is out of the conversation again. These mods. :lol:
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by The Rickman » May 15, 2019, 3:30 pm

Oh man, I was really hoping Hingaro would get a run soon!
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by simo » May 15, 2019, 3:44 pm

The Rickman wrote:
May 15, 2019, 3:30 pm
Oh man, I was really hoping Hingaro would get a run soon!
First chinese player in the league?
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by -TW- » May 15, 2019, 6:37 pm

simo wrote:
The Rickman wrote:
May 15, 2019, 3:30 pm
Oh man, I was really hoping Hingaro would get a run soon!
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by T_R » May 15, 2019, 7:36 pm

Why is that Chinese?
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by simo » May 15, 2019, 7:44 pm

T_R wrote:
May 15, 2019, 7:36 pm
Why is that Chinese?
Because i can just racistly imagine the city wok guy from south park saying hingaro
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by -PJ- » May 16, 2019, 7:23 am

T_R wrote:
May 15, 2019, 7:36 pm
Why is that Chinese?
Well it's not Swedish..
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Northern Raider » May 16, 2019, 8:37 am

-PJ- wrote:
May 16, 2019, 7:23 am
T_R wrote:
May 15, 2019, 7:36 pm
Why is that Chinese?
Well it's not Swedish..
Looks like its Indonesian.

https://forebears.io/surnames/hingaro

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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Seiffert82 » May 16, 2019, 11:45 am

Fascinating discussion.

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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Green2ooF » May 18, 2019, 9:01 pm

Trytime Sammy!!!!!

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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by yurithe1 » May 19, 2019, 2:41 pm

The Rickman wrote:
May 15, 2019, 10:41 am
simo wrote:
May 15, 2019, 9:02 am
Basically all sammy needs to do to keep his spot in first grade is continue to not do anything while having poor to no defence. Sammy is allowed to do nothing on the field because thats the role hes been given, halves arent there to defend and hes a good guy. Sezer lost to melbourne all on his own and isnt a top one or 2 half in the comp
That basically seems to be the discussion, yep.
Yeah, Sammy is a **** defender. I just checked the NRL stats. He has a tackle efficiency of 80.6% over nine games.

Sezer's two games have produced 82.5%.

Jarrod Croker is at 82.4%. Wighton is at 84.6%. Anyone want to say either of them should be dropped?
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by edwahu » May 19, 2019, 3:18 pm

yurithe1 wrote:
May 19, 2019, 2:41 pm
The Rickman wrote:
May 15, 2019, 10:41 am
simo wrote:
May 15, 2019, 9:02 am
Basically all sammy needs to do to keep his spot in first grade is continue to not do anything while having poor to no defence. Sammy is allowed to do nothing on the field because thats the role hes been given, halves arent there to defend and hes a good guy. Sezer lost to melbourne all on his own and isnt a top one or 2 half in the comp
That basically seems to be the discussion, yep.
Yeah, Sammy is a **** defender. I just checked the NRL stats. He has a tackle efficiency of 80.6% over nine games.

Sezer's two games have produced 82.5%.

Jarrod Croker is at 82.4%. Wighton is at 84.6%. Anyone want to say either of them should be dropped?
Here's some more stats to check:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... y=lbCauses

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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Northern Raider » May 19, 2019, 3:25 pm

edwahu wrote:
May 19, 2019, 3:18 pm
yurithe1 wrote:
May 19, 2019, 2:41 pm
The Rickman wrote:
May 15, 2019, 10:41 am
simo wrote:
May 15, 2019, 9:02 am
Basically all sammy needs to do to keep his spot in first grade is continue to not do anything while having poor to no defence. Sammy is allowed to do nothing on the field because thats the role hes been given, halves arent there to defend and hes a good guy. Sezer lost to melbourne all on his own and isnt a top one or 2 half in the comp
That basically seems to be the discussion, yep.
Yeah, Sammy is a **** defender. I just checked the NRL stats. He has a tackle efficiency of 80.6% over nine games.

Sezer's two games have produced 82.5%.

Jarrod Croker is at 82.4%. Wighton is at 84.6%. Anyone want to say either of them should be dropped?
Here's some more stats to check:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... y=lbCauses
Wow, Milford really sucks
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Roger Kenworthy » May 20, 2019, 8:20 am

edwahu wrote:
May 19, 2019, 3:18 pm
yurithe1 wrote:
May 19, 2019, 2:41 pm
The Rickman wrote:
May 15, 2019, 10:41 am
simo wrote:
May 15, 2019, 9:02 am
Basically all sammy needs to do to keep his spot in first grade is continue to not do anything while having poor to no defence. Sammy is allowed to do nothing on the field because thats the role hes been given, halves arent there to defend and hes a good guy. Sezer lost to melbourne all on his own and isnt a top one or 2 half in the comp
That basically seems to be the discussion, yep.
Yeah, Sammy is a **** defender. I just checked the NRL stats. He has a tackle efficiency of 80.6% over nine games.

Sezer's two games have produced 82.5%.

Jarrod Croker is at 82.4%. Wighton is at 84.6%. Anyone want to say either of them should be dropped?
Here's some more stats to check:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... y=lbCauses
Interestingly only a couple more try causes than Croker, who many are saying is now a great defender. Croker has played 2 extra games.

The 2 errors and no kick errors on that list is the reason I think he is holding his spot. Sezer had 20 in 18 games last season.

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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by edwahu » May 20, 2019, 8:36 am

As was mentioned before you have to look at the stats relative to position.

Id agree on error rate being a plus for Sammy, it's very low for a half.

I don't actually know what Kick errors measures, since it doesn't include kicking the ball dead and is way too high for just out on the full. I think maybe it's kicking into an opponent and out on the full, since Hodgo is very high :?

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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Roger Kenworthy » May 20, 2019, 9:26 am

edwahu wrote:
May 20, 2019, 8:36 am
As was mentioned before you have to look at the stats relative to position.

Id agree on error rate being a plus for Sammy, it's very low for a half.

I don't actually know what Kick errors measures, since it doesn't include kicking the ball dead and is way too high for just out on the full. I think maybe it's kicking into an opponent and out on the full, since Hodgo is very high :?
Obviously, but Williams isn't the only half in that list so it's not as if he is a complete anomaly. Milford, Morgan and Hunt are all up there with him. Pretty much the same amount of halves in the top 20 as centres so if you are going to use those stats to highlight Williams then you also have to highlight Croker is one of the weaker defenders in his position.

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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by The Rickman » May 20, 2019, 10:25 am

Yeah, kick errors is obviously a stupid stat if Williams has none! He's DEFINITELY given away a few 7-tackle sets this season, including a critical one against Souths that went a long way towards them winning the game.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Roger Kenworthy » May 20, 2019, 11:12 am

The Rickman wrote:
May 20, 2019, 10:25 am
Yeah, kick errors is obviously a stupid stat if Williams has none! He's DEFINITELY given away a few 7-tackle sets this season, including a critical one against Souths that went a long way towards them winning the game.
Agree they are a pretty useless stat if not including 7 tackle sets. Must pretty much only be out/dead on the full in that case.

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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by BadnMean » May 20, 2019, 12:40 pm

edwahu wrote:
May 20, 2019, 8:36 am
As was mentioned before you have to look at the stats relative to position.

Id agree on error rate being a plus for Sammy, it's very low for a half.

I don't actually know what Kick errors measures, since it doesn't include kicking the ball dead and is way too high for just out on the full. I think maybe it's kicking into an opponent and out on the full, since Hodgo is very high :?
Yeah he may have kicked 3 out on the full in the first 4 rounds or so but none lately. Perhaps you're right, a kick that gets charged down/blocked off the legs goes as an error? That would be fair enough as an error and Hodgo has a lot of those.

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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by Northern Raider » May 20, 2019, 12:50 pm

An effective kicking game is very difficult to quantify statistically. Their no real way to measure the nuances between a good kick and a bad one. A 20m grubber kick into touch 10m from the oppostion goal line late in a game is fantastic if its a 5th tackle when you're up by 8 points. If its the 3rd tackle and you're down by 8 its an appalling play. Statistically its almost identical.
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Re: Williams or Sezer?

Post by simo » May 20, 2019, 12:53 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
May 20, 2019, 12:50 pm
An effective kicking game is very difficult to quantify statistically. Their no real way to measure the nuances between a good kick and a bad one. A 20m grubber kick into touch 10m from the oppostion goal line late in a game is fantastic if its a 5th tackle when you're up by 8 points. If its the 3rd tackle and you're down by 8 its an appalling play. Statistically its almost identical.
Similarly, people are crediting williams for a bomb that no chasers could get to that the south winger just dropped cold. Its a lucky outcome for a really average kick
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