Williams or Sezer?

[simo]

Ah should have known there was a seperate thread

[simo]

Not knocking the door down is diferent from not offering better qualities for our nrl side than sam. Its a long season, but the sooner we get sezer back into the top squad to solidify combinations, the better.

[BadnMean]

Not knocking the door down is diferent from not offering better qualities for our nrl side than sam. Its a long season, but the sooner we get sezer back into the top squad to solidify combinations, the better.

What qualities? Better defense? So far Sam has been very physical this year and hasn't been picked apart. Wouldn't be many halves with fewer try causes , at a guess.

Better running game? Nope. Sezer seems to have busted legs. Haven't seen him dart through a gap in donkeys. Williams threatens the line more- scored one the other week and almost got through for another one in the red zone this week.

Better passing?

Kicking game? Not consistently. No. At the moment Jack doing the long kicks, Williams and Hodgo do the medium and short stuff unless Jack thinks its on is actually working out well. We are able to control games better than last year with Sezer in the halves.

2019 Sezer is not GC or early Raiders Sezer (who had a bit more zip). 2019 Williams seems un upgrade on previous versions.

[simo]

You seem to be seeing a lot more in williams than i do. Williams has tried to improve his physicality in defence and that is admirable, but hes still much more of a liabitly there than sezer. His kicking game is only a nice cross field “kick pass” to the 2nd row/centre area. Its one good kick option but anywhere else on the field his kicks have been poor.
Running game isnt a strength if either but williams can have the win because of that yawning gap he went through

[Riaan]

Both of them are rubbish, I was a pretty big fan of Sezer when he first came here but he has tailed off massively this past couple of seasons. Sam Williams has hit his ceiling and the fact no other NRL club shows interest in him when he is on the market tells the tale.
After yesterdays game we really, really, really need a smart half, some of the decision making from our spine was terrible

[Woodgers]

I'm in the camp that says while we're winning, no need to shake things up.

I do wonder though if the halfback has become the most redundant position in our 13. We all know that plenty of times this season the coach has sent us out with the instructions to play down the middle and try tire out other packs. The hooker runs the show. The halfback can basically just direct the traffic when we have the ball with that game plan and this isn't a measurable that people judge performance on because without being on the park how would you know how influential he is? Our back 5 are our running players to either try ruck it out or create something out of nothing in the red zone where we look clunky and hellbent on dragging the opposition defence into the middle of the field to open up some room for these outside backs when/IF we finally spread it on the last, and the ball must bypass the 7 as fast as possible under this strategy. Then you have our 5/8 who is so desperate to prove himself in the halves that he is running around like a headless chicken trying to get involved in everything including the kicking that he seems to be demanding the ball and getting it more than the 7 on reputation as much as anything.

It's like we're the only side in NRL history that is least phased by what the 7 does with the footy as long as they're not leaking points down our end they're doing their defensive job in this structure and that's the pass mark.

[Roger Kenworthy]

It's a combination of not costing us defensively while also helping our attack flow. Sezer can be quite disjointing to our attacking flow with some of his options, if he could get a bit smoother in attack and consistently clear the defensive line and find the turf with his boot then he'd be first choice every week.

Ben Hornby and Trent Hodkinson would be the poster boy for this type of minimalist half. Some others that Williams role reminds me of are Shane Perry and David Penna.

[Beejay]

At the moment Sam Williams is having as close to zero to do with our result. Which gets glossed over when your winning, but really its not a good thing.

[raidersmalt]

Has anyone seen them in the same room? At this point I'm not convinced they're not the same person.

[Roger Kenworthy]

At the moment Sam Williams is having as close to zero to do with our result. Which gets glossed over when your winning, but really its not a good thing.

We're generally a composed team out there in attack and defense, and our 6th tackle options are much better than they have been the past couple years. Much less panic about the team on both sides of the field this year IMO.

[BadnMean]

It is a bit odd. Our halves get roasted for poor game management last year when we lose a number of close games/blow leads. But no-one wants to credit them when that changes.

If they haven't improved, then our wins are entirely down to being fitter/more mobile/better defensively (which shouldn't they also get credit for?) then why did they cop so much flak last year?

Both ends of this pineapple are rough.

[Northern Raider]

At the moment Sam Williams is having as close to zero to do with our result. Which gets glossed over when your winning, but really its not a good thing.

We're generally a composed team out there in attack and defense, and our 6th tackle options are much better than they have been the past couple years. Much less panic about the team on both sides of the field this year IMO.

Are we more composed because of Williams or because of the overall mindset of the team? Williams has not cemented his spot as yet. If a player his to hold out the incumbent returning from injury they really need to put their stamp on the game. I've not seen that as yet. The one thing in his favour is we're winning. He could/should keep his spot because of that however I'd expect our next loss will see him return to Mounties.

[Roger Kenworthy]

At the moment Sam Williams is having as close to zero to do with our result. Which gets glossed over when your winning, but really its not a good thing.

We're generally a composed team out there in attack and defense, and our 6th tackle options are much better than they have been the past couple years. Much less panic about the team on both sides of the field this year IMO.

Are we more composed because of Williams or because of the overall mindset of the team? Williams has not cemented his spot as yet. If a player his to hold out the incumbent returning from injury they really need to put their stamp on the game. I've not seen that as yet. The one thing in his favour is we're winning. He could/should keep his spot because of that however I'd expect our next loss will see him return to Mounties.

You can certainly argue either way. Sezer spent half of last year running around like a headless chicken so I'm happy to stick with Williams for now, even after a loss or two.

[Woodgers]

But as I said, how do you also be highly critical of a player that is supposed to take the game by scruff of the neck when it appears he is the player the coach least wants with ball in hand? I know this veers away slightly from the Williams or Sezer debate, because effectively if my assumption is correct Sezer would be in the exact same boat of being judged on defensive ability rather than all the traditional elements of halfback play.

I think back to what was working for Cronulla in 2016 and you would say that Ennis and Maloney had far more say in the football played than Chad Townsend. With Ennis on board in the coaching ranks, perhaps this is a style bleeding down here as a result? Again a bit more speculation by me but there is a bit of evidence to support it.

This could be also be a Ricky masterstroke....finally realising he's not the greatest coach of playmaking ability so finding a workaround!

[RedRaider]

I think Sam is playing his role within the current structure of the side. I don't know that a single loss will see him dropped. It's been 4 wins out of 4 starts since he has been at half and Sutton at lock to start the game. While all the kudos deservedly went to JC for his Gidley Flick to Nic, the play saw Sam move over on the left to pass to Jack, to JC to NC for the TRY. It is rare these days to see a play which goes hooker, half, 5/8, center, winger = TRY. Beautiful to watch. The subsequent play began with Sam's decision to move to the left. I'm glad he is not anchored to the right. On his usual right side, he took on the line in the play immediately before the JB try. He was dragged down just short by McCullough but the Broncos were not properly set before the smart work by JB produced the try.

A kick is only as good as its chase. Sam put in a bomb which Jack bats back to Alex Glenn. The kick was right for the attacking players to contest the ball but the execution of the runner led nowhere. On another occasion he puts in a good bomb which Hodgo contests and is penalised for. I thought the penalty was dubious as players need to be able to challenge for the ball and the kick has to be in the right place for the attacking side to get challengers into the contest for the ball. His kick did that.

In his defensive efforts he put a shot on Boyd forcing the ball free. Unfortunately it went backwards towards the Broncos. He also put good tackles on Alex Glenn and a beauty on the largest Bronco Payne Haas. When we have the attacking weapons on the flanks the half backs role is to get it to them. When the game plan calls for our forwards to attack the middle the hooker does his bit to perform as the coach asks. Once again I think Sam did the job being asked of him as required by the game plan.

[BadnMean]

I think Sam is playing his role within the current structure of the side. I don't know that a single loss will see him dropped. It's been 4 wins out of 4 starts since he has been at half and Sutton at lock to start the game. While all the kudos deservedly went to JC for his Gidley Flick to Nic, the play saw Sam move over on the left to pass to Jack, to JC to NC for the TRY. It is rare these days to see a play which goes hooker, half, 5/8, center, winger = TRY. Beautiful to watch. The subsequent play began with Sam's decision to move to the left. I'm glad he is not anchored to the right. On his usual right side, he took on the line in the play immediately before the JB try. He was dragged down just short by McCullough but the Broncos were not properly set before the smart work by JB produced the try.

A kick is only as good as its chase. Sam put in a bomb which Jack bats back to Alex Glenn. The kick was right for the attacking players to contest the ball but the execution of the runner led nowhere. On another occasion he puts in a good bomb which Hodgo contests and is penalised for. I thought the penalty was dubious as players need to be able to challenge for the ball and the kick has to be in the right place for the attacking side to get challengers into the contest for the ball. His kick did that.

In his defensive efforts he put a shot on Boyd forcing the ball free. Unfortunately it went backwards towards the Broncos. He also put good tackles on Alex Glenn and a beauty on the largest Bronco Payne Haas. When we have the attacking weapons on the flanks the half backs role is to get it to them. When the game plan calls for our forwards to attack the middle the hooker does his bit to perform as the coach asks. Once again I think Sam did the job being asked of him as required by the game plan.

Well presented analysis of the stronger aspects of his game RR. He's not a superstar half, but he can be smart and allow our other strengths to come into the game.

[Botman]

Agreed, really like RR's account of Williams game
According to Red, Sammy's got 4 try assists in 4 games... 1 from the precision bomb for Jack Wighton last week, one from another kick which was put right into the grill of a winger who inexplicably fumbled the ball and then Beej rampaged and did his thing, and now two where Williams involvement in the play was simple playing the football after being tackled.

It's great stuff.

[Northern Raider]

While not disagreeing with RR's assessment I don't see it presenting a great case for Williams long term. If that's his ceiling it confirms he's only a placeholder till Sezer returns. Otherwise he needs to step it up a notch in order to confirm his starting role.

[Beejay]

By the end of May we will have a decent sample size, and will have come off the back of playing Panthers, Roosters and Storm.
That's when we can confidently look at the squad and see where we need improvement in order to win a comp.

Our halves are a glaring issue currently. May I present some key stats that point to our issues;

1. Our attack hinges on Josh Hodgson, and he doesn't have much backup - meaning in the key games, against the good sides, they just need to shut him down.
Josh has the most try assists in our team with 3. Rest of our spine;
Wighton 0
Sezer 1
CNK 0
Williams 0 - However Sam has scored a try himself.

The try assist isn't always everything, sometimes you make a linebreak and someone scores next play, so how do they do here;
Hodgson 1
Wighton 0
Sezer 0
CNK 0 - however he has made 2 on his own
Williams 1 - and 1 himself for his try

These are good numbers for Hodgson and decent numbers for Sam Williams (considering he's only played 1 game). CNK has pretty much just finished things off not really creating for others. So what the hell are Sezer and Wighton doing?

Run metres
Hodgson 7R 68 metres
Wighton 29R 291 metres (highest for a half in the NRL)
Sezer 3R 22 metres
CNK 56R 462 metres
Williams 2R 11 metres

Kick metres
Hodgson 485m - 3 forced drop out
Wighton 617m - 1 forced drop out
Sezer 312m - 1 forced drop out
Williams 214m - 1 forced drop out

Sezer's played two games, so his kick metres are bog average, and running game is non-existent.

Wighton's run metres are the highest for any half in the league. Also from his 29 runs, 20 have been 8+metres. That puts him well above the other halves (like double), and close to fullback level which is amazing considering he's not doing kick returns.
He's also got the most kick metres in our team, so while he had a few shockers last weekend we are going to him the most of anyone, especially long kicks. His kick errors stat is 2, compared to Sezer's 4, and Hodgson's 2.

Wighton to 6 is going well in my opinion. And if we sign George Williams it's my early prediction that it will be to partner Wighton in the halves.
> I'd like to see Wighton either making some linebreaks, or setting them up, to establish himself as a point of concern for the defence.
> Sam Williams needs to be a bit more creative to give himself a chance of cementing his place in the side.
> Sezer needs to improve everything. Best of luck at the Bulldogs as their next marquee signing after Napa.

Update on my previous ‘Spine Watch’ post. That last post was made after Round 3 and Sam Williams first game. Sam has now played 4 games, and with our team 6 games in, we are starting to see some patterns settling in.

Try assists;
Hodgson - 4
Wighton - 0
CNK - 2
Williams - 2 (4 games)

Williams is almost bottom as a starting NRL half even accounting for him playing 4 of 6 games.
Wighton still on a donut.
Hodgson 2nd behind Cook for Hookers

Linebreak assists;
Hodgson - 2
Wighton - 0
CNK - 5
Williams – 1

Williams is equal worst as a starting NRL half even accounting for him playing 4 of 6 games.
Wighton still donut.
Hodgson equal third with Smith.
CNK is 3rd behind Gutho and Moylan, and ahead of golden boy Ponga.

Run Metres;
Hodgson – 14 runs for 145 metres
Wighton - 50 runs for 498 metres
Williams - 6 runs for 35 metres
CNK – 111 runs for 955 metres

Wighton is top run metres for any half in the NRL. Runs of 8+ metres are 36 which is the top for any half, even Ponga.
Williams is 2nd last of all half and 5/8’s.
Hodgson middle of the pack.
CNK is 3rd, and equal second with Tedesco for runs of 8+ metres (64)

Kick metres;
Hodgson – 740m from 30 kicks (kick errors 6)
Wighton – 1375m from 41 kicks (kick errors 4)
Williams – 853m from 31 kicks (kick errors 0)

Forced line dropouts;
Hodgson - 4
Wighton - 2
Williams - 4

Errors;
Hodgson - 9
Wighton - 15
Williams – 2
Sezer – 4 (4 kick errors)

If it even needed to be confirmed, we are getting a **** load of value out of CNK. Absolutely blowing the doors off of any expectations.

Wighton is still doing a lot of running and long kicks but not being creative. We can all see that he is often leading the defence on his side of the field as well as kick chases. He tops our team for 1on1 tackles, and some of those have been brutal. As a running 5/8 and only 6 games into the position, it’s hard to argue against him being effective in the front line. He is a weapon in both attack and defence.
However he is error prone, with and without the ball. He has made mistakes in defence as he gets used to defending in the front line.
He needs to remove these errors from his game, and develop some sort of ball play to establish himself as a point of concern for the defence. There were some signs of it against Brisbane where we had nice shape set up in a sweeping movement, he didn’t get credited with any linebreaks, but some were made off of Crokers space from a Wighton pass. Needs more of that, and also more going to the line with options when he runs. As a half now, that’s on him to organise and execute.

Sam Williams has been reasonably safe. Zero kick errors from 30 kicks, and only 2 errors in total.
In defence, 2 Try causes and 3 line break causes puts him about 4th or 5th worst in our team, and when you compare them to his own assists he is in the negative.
4 Forced drop outs are great, especially with the zero kick errors to his name. It’s hard to understate how important that can be in some games.
Overall he’s not much threat to the defence in attack, and when ‘holding your own’ is your high point as a defender, it’s a concern you’re not bringing enough to the team.
But he’s reasonably safe, and Sezer wasn’t. So Sezer doesn’t deserve another go based on what he’s thrown up this year or last, unless Sam drops his standards from his current position of ‘Reasonably Safe’.

As a bonus, George Williams stats from Superleague (10 games in);
-Tries – 8 – 12th in comp
-Try assists – 9 - 12th in comp
-Attacking kicks – 54 - 8th in comp
-Tackle breaks – 55 – 10th in comp
-Offloads - 18 - equal 5th in comp
-Carries – 192 - 5th in comp – this is a stat I’m not used to, but it looks like they count it if you run to the line and pass, where in the NRL that wouldn’t be counted. It means he handles the ball A LOT. There’s only one other half ahead of him (hastings) and the others are a winger and Props.
-Missed tackles – 22 from 220 tackles (compare that to say Jackson Hastings 21 from 179 tackles, or old faithful Blake Austin 30 from 185 tackles.)
-Errors - 19 - 3rd worst in comp.

Those stats back up what I've watched recently. George gets his hands on the ball a lot, and he also kicks a lot whenever he sees an opportunity. He also runs a fair bit when nothing is on, and he's strong so he's bumping out of tackles and offloading which creates unstructured chances for others.

[Roger Kenworthy]

While not disagreeing with RR's assessment I don't see it presenting a great case for Williams long term. If that's his ceiling it confirms he's only a placeholder till Sezer returns. Otherwise he needs to step it up a notch in order to confirm his starting role.

What has Sezer done in the past 24 months to warrant his spot?

[Northern Raider]

While not disagreeing with RR's assessment I don't see it presenting a great case for Williams long term. If that's his ceiling it confirms he's only a placeholder till Sezer returns. Otherwise he needs to step it up a notch in order to confirm his starting role.

What has Sezer done in the past 24 months to warrant his spot?

Been better than Williams.

[RedRaider]

While not disagreeing with RR's assessment I don't see it presenting a great case for Williams long term. If that's his ceiling it confirms he's only a placeholder till Sezer returns. Otherwise he needs to step it up a notch in order to confirm his starting role.

I don't think he is at his ceiling by any means NR. I think he was rated at No2 by the Coach during the pre-season. Since his call up this year it is hard to argue that the side has not looked better and he is performing the role asked of him. I consider him under rated. He rarely puts his team mates under pressure as often as others. It is still early days in season 2019 and I am expecting improvements in team and individual performance as the season moves on. I like it when our local juniors prove to be NRL worthy whether early in their careers or as later developers.

[gangrenous]

I’m 100% with BadnMean.

Williams has done his job in a team winning 4/4. His repeat sets, lack of kick errors, distribution to edges, having attacking kicks land where they should, field goal set ups. All of these are positives that I think are important contributors that Sezer is not bringing consistently if at all.

Williams would have to have an absolute shocker to be dropped based on one game at the moment.

[RedRaider]

Thanks for the stats Beejay. Do you have the Penalties conceded stats? Also can you put up Jacks 'try causes and line break causes?

So far the team is defending Jacks errors. He has a long kicking game if sometimes wayward.

[gangrenous]

Linebreak assists;
Hodgson - 2
Wighton - 0
CNK - 5
Williams – 1

Williams is equal worst as a starting NRL half even accounting for him playing 4 of 6 games.

Being ultra pedantic - This comment makes your analysis smell slightly dubious. How are you “accounting” for Williams playing less games in calling this? Is there one other player with 1 and they have also played 4 games? Otherwise presumably you’d pro rata it and Williams is no longer equal worst. I doubt you’ve gone full stochastic and assigned him 1 line break still based on probability for the games unplayed!

Perhaps this and similar comments should be “Williams is equal worst in line breaks, with poor numbers even considering he has not played all games.”

I don’t doubt for a second that your conclusion is accurate, and I really like the analysis overall. Just a tiny thing that irked one of my obsessions

[Beejay]

Linebreak assists;
Hodgson - 2
Wighton - 0
CNK - 5
Williams – 1

Williams is equal worst as a starting NRL half even accounting for him playing 4 of 6 games.

Being ultra pedantic - This comment makes your analysis smell slightly dubious. How are you “accounting” for Williams playing less games in calling this? Is there one other player with 1 and they have also played 4 games? Otherwise presumably you’d pro rata it and Williams is no longer equal worst. I doubt you’ve gone full stochastic and assigned him 1 line break still based on probability for the games unplayed!

Perhaps this and similar comments should be “Williams is equal worst in line breaks, with poor numbers even considering he has not played all games.”

I don’t doubt for a second that your conclusion is accurate, and I really like the analysis overall. Just a tiny thing that irked one of my obsessions

For halfbacks on a per game average that have played the position he is 16th, Croft and Brooks are 0.1 per game behind him, and Sezer. That’s it.
When you add in 5/8’s he’s equal 27th with Dylan Brown and Jack Cogger.

[Beejay]

Thanks for the stats Beejay. Do you have the Penalties conceded stats? Also can you put up Jacks 'try causes and line break causes?

So far the team is defending Jacks errors. He has a long kicking game if sometimes wayward.

Jack tops penalties conceded with 7. Closely followed by Hodgson and Horsburgh.

Line break causes for Jack and Sam is 3, with Sam only playing 4 games.

Try causes for Jack is 4 and Sam 2.

John Bateman is a worry on this stat.

This is the link for complete stats
https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-p ... =tryCauses

[T_R]

Well, according to those stats, Gould has got his wish and we're basically playing Wighton as another inside centre, albeit one who kicks and makes lots of mistakes.

[gangrenous]

Ricky innovating. Forget left and right halves. We have one left and right half.

I think we might just be unstoppable if we replace Williams with Simmonson (sp?) or Oldfield

Halves are so pre 2020.

[BadnMean]

Jack is a maniac with game-breaking potential even when he is erratic. Slowly the errors will tone down, just like when he learnt FB play. I'd say he is already a "point of concern" for opposition defences actually. He's winning us games and is going to get better too.

Williams is a good value (read budget) halfback doing exactly what is asked of him. How do the stats cope with your job being to get clean early ball out to the outside backs to give them room to move? You don't get credited if the attacker makes the break themselves by bumping off 3 right? If you've got a numpty back 5 like Manly, you need to pass them into a hole. Joey doesn't need holes, you just give him the ball and let him march.

Anyway the sample size this year is very small- over the last 2 years he played NRL Williams is creating more try assists per game than Sezer has in his last two NRL seasons. He's equal 4th (with a big bunch) among NRL halves for drop outs forced per game this season.

More than happy to bring in G Williams in the future. But at the moment if Sam's job is "get ball to the edges, keep things calm and try to have a brain/control the game and be steady so we have some direction" then he's on track. He kicks FG. Remember when we couldn't kick one to save ourselves for 2 years straight and now suddenly we can? Nah lets bring Sezer back because he's better. At... something...

[gangrenous]

Negotiating contracts

[Northern Raider]

While not disagreeing with RR's assessment I don't see it presenting a great case for Williams long term. If that's his ceiling it confirms he's only a placeholder till Sezer returns. Otherwise he needs to step it up a notch in order to confirm his starting role.

I don't think he is at his ceiling by any means NR. I think he was rated at No2 by the Coach during the pre-season. Since his call up this year it is hard to argue that the side has not looked better and he is performing the role asked of him. I consider him under rated. He rarely puts his team mates under pressure as often as others. It is still early days in season 2019 and I am expecting improvements in team and individual performance as the season moves on. I like it when our local juniors prove to be NRL worthy whether early in their careers or as later developers.

His role at the moment is not to be **** and he managing that OK. If you believe there's an upside to his game then great. Me, I think Williams is currently as doing as much as he can for the team. I'm basing that view on his previous 9 years of senior rugby league.

[RedRaider]

Thanks for the stats Beejay. Do you have the Penalties conceded stats? Also can you put up Jacks 'try causes and line break causes?

So far the team is defending Jacks errors. He has a long kicking game if sometimes wayward.

Jack tops penalties conceded with 7. Closely followed by Hodgson and Horsburgh.

Line break causes for Jack and Sam is 3, with Sam only playing 4 games.

Try causes for Jack is 4 and Sam 2.

John Bateman is a worry on this stat.

This is the link for complete stats
https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-p ... =tryCauses

Thanks Beejay, much appreciated. Some rave about Jack's defence and bag out Sam. I simply don't think they are looking at 2019. While Jack makes a lot of running meters his penalties conceded at 7 after 6 rounds and errors 15 after 6 rounds means his net meters made will be far lower. I know he is still adjusting to the role, but errors and penalties conceded are areas he needs to work on. We will soon be up against the Chooks and Bunnies. They will be much harder to defend against if regular penalties and errors are made. Before last weekends round the Chooks had scored 25 tries and the Bunnies 20 tries (Source Big League magazine.)
Giving those sides 'easy possession' is a recipe for match day struggle street imo.

[edwahu]

Thanks for the stats Beejay. Do you have the Penalties conceded stats? Also can you put up Jacks 'try causes and line break causes?

So far the team is defending Jacks errors. He has a long kicking game if sometimes wayward.

Jack tops penalties conceded with 7. Closely followed by Hodgson and Horsburgh.

Line break causes for Jack and Sam is 3, with Sam only playing 4 games.

Try causes for Jack is 4 and Sam 2.

John Bateman is a worry on this stat.

This is the link for complete stats
https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-p ... =tryCauses

Bateman is ok, 3 in 6 rounds isn't a worry for mine. Too small a sample size given its his first NRL season.

One thing to note also is a LBC and TC is often the same play. If they make a line break and score it's a double strike.

[afgtnk]

So long as our two current halves are fit, Sezer shouldn't be back in the starting side. It's evident that both the team and Jack play better with Sam there.

Has Sam been great? No. He's not going to be, and he's paid accordingly. However, I'd rather give the guy who should be our backup half for the next few seasons more quality experience, as opposed to the guy who cannot think like a halfback yet is on double the pay, and needs to cut at the absolute earliest opportunity. Especially since he's actually better than him, by however small or large a distance.