Josh Hodgson

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Botman
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Botman »

Hazza wrote: April 15, 2019, 8:57 am
PigRickman wrote: April 14, 2019, 10:25 pm **** of a game
Set up two tries

Bad teams blame their best players for their lot in life. A truism across all sports


We’ve got the second best hooker in the world
3rd best. Can't have him in front of Cook
Id take Hodgson over Cook.
Cook is one of the better running hooker i've seen, and that'll take you a long way, but that's really all he is IMO. He's a below average kicker and ball player at hooker.
Too me, i've seen Hodgson take games over with his running game from hooker the way Cook does, but i've never seen Cook take a game over with his passing and kicking games.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by edwahu »

papabear wrote: April 15, 2019, 7:49 am Hodgson isn’t in the same class as smith.

Someone mentioned above which I saw to but didn’t post, was hodgsons fear of running compared to normal. To be fair it might be an injury thing but a few times there was a tiny little whole that normally Hodgson would run into and punish that he didn’t take.

One can hope though that the passing kicking and option taking can improve as the season goes on.

Maybe Stuart says keep it simple, but imo a crash ball at the wrong time is more risky then a shift in terms of a turn over. So I am not sure he is to blame.

Also what does Rapana have to do with the price of milk?
Rapana said during the half time interview that the focus was working the middle over and sticking to it. Stuart said similar in a half time interview.

The criticism of Hodgson over the crash ball in that context is wide of the mark given the result that those tactics delivered. Exactly what they wanted to happen did happen.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Hazza »

PigRickman wrote: April 15, 2019, 9:12 am
Hazza wrote: April 15, 2019, 8:57 am
PigRickman wrote: April 14, 2019, 10:25 pm **** of a game
Set up two tries

Bad teams blame their best players for their lot in life. A truism across all sports


We’ve got the second best hooker in the world
3rd best. Can't have him in front of Cook
Id take Hodgson over Cook.
Cook is one of the better running hooker i've seen, and that'll take you a long way, but that's really all he is IMO. He's a below average kicker and ball player at hooker.
Too me, i've seen Hodgson take games over with his running game from hooker the way Cook does, but i've never seen Cook take a game over with his passing and kicking games.
Did you see his pass inside to Cody Walker after he made that break on Saturday? You're right though, they bring different qualities. Personally I couldn't have Hodgo in front of Cook. If a team with Cook in it has a much ball as we did in the 1st half last night they score at least 3/4 tries.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Hazza »

Hazza wrote: April 15, 2019, 10:02 am
PigRickman wrote: April 15, 2019, 9:12 am
Hazza wrote: April 15, 2019, 8:57 am
PigRickman wrote: April 14, 2019, 10:25 pm **** of a game
Set up two tries

Bad teams blame their best players for their lot in life. A truism across all sports


We’ve got the second best hooker in the world
3rd best. Can't have him in front of Cook
Id take Hodgson over Cook.
Cook is one of the better running hooker i've seen, and that'll take you a long way, but that's really all he is IMO. He's a below average kicker and ball player at hooker.
Too me, i've seen Hodgson take games over with his running game from hooker the way Cook does, but i've never seen Cook take a game over with his passing and kicking games.
Did you see his pass inside to Cody Walker after he made that break on Saturday? You're right though, they bring different qualities. Personally I couldn't have Hodgo in front of Cook. If a team with Cook in it has as much ball as we did in the 1st half last night they score at least 3/4 tries.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Botman »

Hazza wrote: April 15, 2019, 10:02 am
PigRickman wrote: April 15, 2019, 9:12 am
Hazza wrote: April 15, 2019, 8:57 am
PigRickman wrote: April 14, 2019, 10:25 pm **** of a game
Set up two tries

Bad teams blame their best players for their lot in life. A truism across all sports


We’ve got the second best hooker in the world
3rd best. Can't have him in front of Cook
Id take Hodgson over Cook.
Cook is one of the better running hooker i've seen, and that'll take you a long way, but that's really all he is IMO. He's a below average kicker and ball player at hooker.
Too me, i've seen Hodgson take games over with his running game from hooker the way Cook does, but i've never seen Cook take a game over with his passing and kicking games.
Did you see his pass inside to Cody Walker after he made that break on Saturday? You're right though, they bring different qualities. Personally I couldn't have Hodgo in front of Cook. If a team with Cook in it has a much ball as we did in the 1st half last night they score at least 3/4 tries.
Yeah i think that's probably right re: the tries last night... i also think in 9/10 games if we get that much ball Hodgson is laying on 3-4 tries too, he just flat out stank last night :lol:

I think Cook and Hodgson are different styles and if you prefer Cook's direct aggressive ball running style, then i couldnt argue with you having him ahead of Hodgson.
A horses for courses situation.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by EJ »

-PJ- wrote:I reckon on at least 3-4 occasions when Hodgo was crabbing across field looking for that crash ball he could have straightened and scored through the gapping holes.

Did anybody else notice how wide those spaces were ?
Yes. In the second half he had multiple chances. Maybe the gap would've closed, but on two occasions it really looked on.

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by simo »

EJ wrote: April 15, 2019, 10:20 am
-PJ- wrote:I reckon on at least 3-4 occasions when Hodgo was crabbing across field looking for that crash ball he could have straightened and scored through the gapping holes.

Did anybody else notice how wide those spaces were ?
Yes. In the second half he had multiple chances. Maybe the gap would've closed, but on two occasions it really looked on.

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It looked like the tactic wasnt to try and sneak the soft try. It was to continually batter the eels Into submission. A sneaky try lets the eels defence to have a breather and get themselves back in play
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Beejay »

I find it hard to believe their tactic would be to not score.

The knock on Hodgson is the same it's been for a while; He needs to figure out the balance between being creative around the ruck with his forwards - and just getting the ball off the deck quick to his halves so they can own a play.
Sam and Jack needed to run creative attacking plays wider of the ruck with clean early ball, but they rarely got it last night.
Sam did nothing but give early ball to Leilua, which is not a bad option, but Sam just didn't do anything to actually create opportunities apart from kicks.
Part of that it seems you can put on Hodgson, as Sam may not ever know when he's going to get nice early ball with time. This is something he should be demanding. but its hard to really judge unless your aware of what is being said.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by edwahu »

The tactic wasn't to not score. It's just they take a lower chance or scoring each play in exchange for wearing their middle down.

And it worked.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by RedRaider »

Sam only kicked? Just after the Takairangi forward pass Sam made a break and was pulled down just short of the line. This was prior to the Papa try. The tactic to work the bigger Eel forwards hard and test their fitness worked. The Raiders are playing Semi finals type footy. I am loving it, because the side is defending like they haven't for many years.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by LimeGreenMachine »

Defense wins games. That has been the simple rule to our game since it began .
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Matt »

LimeGreenMachine wrote: April 15, 2019, 1:39 pm Defense wins games. That has been the simple rule to our game since it began .
Yep.
And the best defenses definitely play finals footy, but ideally GF footy.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by The Nickman »

Matt wrote: April 15, 2019, 2:59 pm
LimeGreenMachine wrote: April 15, 2019, 1:39 pm Defense wins games. That has been the simple rule to our game since it began .
Yep.
And the best defenses definitely play finals footy, but ideally GF footy.
Great point. D1 and D2 played in the GF last season whereas A1 missed the big dance and A2 didn't even make the 8!

Defence is king.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by BJ »

I do like our defensive focused, tire the opposition, low risk rugby league to win games.

The issue I have is that the NRL commission and referees have let this type of football be winning football for a decade.

I’d rather the crazy ball movement all out attack football of the Raiders over the last few years. BUT not at the cost of losing matches.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by The Nickman »

BJ wrote: April 15, 2019, 3:22 pm I do like our defensive focused, tire the opposition, low risk rugby league to win games.

The issue I have is that the NRL commission and referees have let this type of football be winning football for a decade.

I’d rather the crazy ball movement all out attack football of the Raiders over the last few years. BUT not at the cost of losing matches.
I wouldn't, I absolutely LOVED last night's game. There's still a place for free-flowing attack as our combinations build, but as we've shown so far, if you focus on your defence foremost, the attack takes care of itself.

I really enjoyed last night's game. Moreso than any other since 2016.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by LP Raider »

edwahu wrote: April 15, 2019, 9:14 am
papabear wrote: April 15, 2019, 7:49 am Hodgson isn’t in the same class as smith.

Someone mentioned above which I saw to but didn’t post, was hodgsons fear of running compared to normal. To be fair it might be an injury thing but a few times there was a tiny little whole that normally Hodgson would run into and punish that he didn’t take.

One can hope though that the passing kicking and option taking can improve as the season goes on.

Maybe Stuart says keep it simple, but imo a crash ball at the wrong time is more risky then a shift in terms of a turn over. So I am not sure he is to blame.

Also what does Rapana have to do with the price of milk?
Rapana said during the half time interview that the focus was working the middle over and sticking to it. Stuart said similar in a half time interview.

The criticism of Hodgson over the crash ball in that context is wide of the mark given the result that those tactics delivered. Exactly what they wanted to happen did happen.
Not sure whether this has been mentioned, however I'm real disappointed in Gasnier. His response to Rapana's interview was piss poor. He gave an honest opinion when asked about the game plan at half time when coming off the field, fatigued. Gasnier's response was typical of an ex player not understanding of the modern game. Imo has NFI and is a douchebag.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by edwahu »

Yep, I loved it as well. I love our usual style of attacking play but there is nothing more satisfying then seeing us physically and mentally work as a single unit to defeat a team. I haven't seen us do it since Wiki left.
edwahu

Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by edwahu »

LP Raider wrote: April 15, 2019, 3:40 pm
edwahu wrote: April 15, 2019, 9:14 am
papabear wrote: April 15, 2019, 7:49 am Hodgson isn’t in the same class as smith.

Someone mentioned above which I saw to but didn’t post, was hodgsons fear of running compared to normal. To be fair it might be an injury thing but a few times there was a tiny little whole that normally Hodgson would run into and punish that he didn’t take.

One can hope though that the passing kicking and option taking can improve as the season goes on.

Maybe Stuart says keep it simple, but imo a crash ball at the wrong time is more risky then a shift in terms of a turn over. So I am not sure he is to blame.

Also what does Rapana have to do with the price of milk?
Rapana said during the half time interview that the focus was working the middle over and sticking to it. Stuart said similar in a half time interview.

The criticism of Hodgson over the crash ball in that context is wide of the mark given the result that those tactics delivered. Exactly what they wanted to happen did happen.
Not sure whether this has been mentioned, however I'm real disappointed in Gasnier. His response to Rapana's interview was piss poor. He gave an honest opinion when asked about the game plan at half time when coming off the field, fatigued. Gasnier's response was typical of an ex player not understanding of the modern game. Imo has NFI and is a douchebag.
What did he say?
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Matt »

The Rickman wrote: April 15, 2019, 3:15 pm
Matt wrote: April 15, 2019, 2:59 pm
LimeGreenMachine wrote: April 15, 2019, 1:39 pm Defense wins games. That has been the simple rule to our game since it began .
Yep.
And the best defenses definitely play finals footy, but ideally GF footy.
Great point. D1 and D2 played in the GF last season whereas A1 missed the big dance and A2 didn't even make the 8!

Defence is king.
:thumbsup
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Matt »

LP Raider wrote: April 15, 2019, 3:40 pm
edwahu wrote: April 15, 2019, 9:14 am
papabear wrote: April 15, 2019, 7:49 am Hodgson isn’t in the same class as smith.

Someone mentioned above which I saw to but didn’t post, was hodgsons fear of running compared to normal. To be fair it might be an injury thing but a few times there was a tiny little whole that normally Hodgson would run into and punish that he didn’t take.

One can hope though that the passing kicking and option taking can improve as the season goes on.

Maybe Stuart says keep it simple, but imo a crash ball at the wrong time is more risky then a shift in terms of a turn over. So I am not sure he is to blame.

Also what does Rapana have to do with the price of milk?
Rapana said during the half time interview that the focus was working the middle over and sticking to it. Stuart said similar in a half time interview.

The criticism of Hodgson over the crash ball in that context is wide of the mark given the result that those tactics delivered. Exactly what they wanted to happen did happen.
Not sure whether this has been mentioned, however I'm real disappointed in Gasnier. His response to Rapana's interview was piss poor. He gave an honest opinion when asked about the game plan at half time when coming off the field, fatigued. Gasnier's response was typical of an ex player not understanding of the modern game. Imo has NFI and is a douchebag.
I didnt hear the comment, but Gaz is one former player that i can actually listen too, most of the time. He is also one guy who did follow us more closely since his retirement. TBF, Ennis is the other - obviously this yr there is a little bias involved.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Matt »

The Rickman wrote: April 15, 2019, 3:29 pm
BJ wrote: April 15, 2019, 3:22 pm I do like our defensive focused, tire the opposition, low risk rugby league to win games.

The issue I have is that the NRL commission and referees have let this type of football be winning football for a decade.

I’d rather the crazy ball movement all out attack football of the Raiders over the last few years. BUT not at the cost of losing matches.
I wouldn't, I absolutely LOVED last night's game. There's still a place for free-flowing attack as our combinations build, but as we've shown so far, if you focus on your defence foremost, the attack takes care of itself.

I really enjoyed last night's game. Moreso than any other since 2016.
Not sure how obvious it was on TV, but we certainly had a few open side attacking variations lined up on the weekend. However, the execution of all of them stunk. Williams threw one soooo far in front of Jack he only got fingers to it. Another was a short ball to Bateman, but the pass was too early because of decoys being in the wrong place. Another fell apart because BJ juggled one, and I think Rapa went into touch or died with it on the last. Jacks double cutout nearly paid off, but was a little too harbor bridge-ish to Rapa, and he was a couple of meters short.

Anyway, I feel like its coming, its still just a little clunky.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by LP Raider »

Matt wrote: April 15, 2019, 3:56 pm
The Rickman wrote: April 15, 2019, 3:15 pm
Matt wrote: April 15, 2019, 2:59 pm
LimeGreenMachine wrote: April 15, 2019, 1:39 pm Defense wins games. That has been the simple rule to our game since it began .
Yep.
And the best defenses definitely play finals footy, but ideally GF footy.
Great point. D1 and D2 played in the GF last season whereas A1 missed the big dance and A2 didn't even make the 8!

Defence is king.
:thumbsup
He basically said what does he know he's a winger. It was a response to Rapana thinking that they would play through the middle because they weren't as fit as the Raiders.

Gasnier said he plays out on the wing and wouldn't know what it's like, it was a direct dig. If you want players to be interviewed straight after 40 minutes and give an honest perspective he should probably shut up.

As it was, Sunday nights game was probably the most complete I have seen from a game plan. Rapana was honest in his interview and shouldn't have been shot down by Gasnier. The half time commentary from the so called experts was that the Eels would come back, kudos to Ricky and the game plan... he is on the right track.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Seiffert82 »

edwahu wrote: April 15, 2019, 9:14 am
papabear wrote: April 15, 2019, 7:49 am Hodgson isn’t in the same class as smith.

Someone mentioned above which I saw to but didn’t post, was hodgsons fear of running compared to normal. To be fair it might be an injury thing but a few times there was a tiny little whole that normally Hodgson would run into and punish that he didn’t take.

One can hope though that the passing kicking and option taking can improve as the season goes on.

Maybe Stuart says keep it simple, but imo a crash ball at the wrong time is more risky then a shift in terms of a turn over. So I am not sure he is to blame.

Also what does Rapana have to do with the price of milk?
Rapana said during the half time interview that the focus was working the middle over and sticking to it. Stuart said similar in a half time interview.

The criticism of Hodgson over the crash ball in that context is wide of the mark given the result that those tactics delivered. Exactly what they wanted to happen did happen.
Yep, on reflection that's exactly the way things played out.

A simple glance of the team lists showed that we had the huge advantage in the forwards if our pack stepped up. If we made inroads through the middle, chased our kicks well and kept the ruck tight we were going to limit their attack. I was as frustrated as most that we didn't capitalise on some of the chances we created, but the boys stuck to the obvious game plan to a tee.

That's what I love about this team at the moment. We have the ability to adapt our game to take advantage of the opposition's weaknesses. That's pretty special.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by exrefhollywood »

Most over rated player in the comp
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by RedRaider »

The Rickman wrote: April 15, 2019, 3:15 pm
Matt wrote: April 15, 2019, 2:59 pm
LimeGreenMachine wrote: April 15, 2019, 1:39 pm Defense wins games. That has been the simple rule to our game since it began .
Yep.
And the best defenses definitely play finals footy, but ideally GF footy.
Great point. D1 and D2 played in the GF last season whereas A1 missed the big dance and A2 didn't even make the 8!

Defence is king.
Agreed and it's been that way for more than a decade in that Top 4 defensive sides win the comp. So to give ourselves the opportunity of a Premiership, that's where we have to be. The bad news is that 3 of the Top 4 won't win the GF, but without that defensive focus, sides are making up the numbers from 5 - 16.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Ruben Daley »

Matt wrote: April 15, 2019, 4:04 pm
The Rickman wrote: April 15, 2019, 3:29 pm
BJ wrote: April 15, 2019, 3:22 pm I do like our defensive focused, tire the opposition, low risk rugby league to win games.

The issue I have is that the NRL commission and referees have let this type of football be winning football for a decade.

I’d rather the crazy ball movement all out attack football of the Raiders over the last few years. BUT not at the cost of losing matches.
I wouldn't, I absolutely LOVED last night's game. There's still a place for free-flowing attack as our combinations build, but as we've shown so far, if you focus on your defence foremost, the attack takes care of itself.

I really enjoyed last night's game. Moreso than any other since 2016.
Not sure how obvious it was on TV, but we certainly had a few open side attacking variations lined up on the weekend. However, the execution of all of them stunk. Williams threw one soooo far in front of Jack he only got fingers to it. Another was a short ball to Bateman, but the pass was too early because of decoys being in the wrong place. Another fell apart because BJ juggled one, and I think Rapa went into touch or died with it on the last. Jacks double cutout nearly paid off, but was a little too harbor bridge-ish to Rapa, and he was a couple of meters short.

Anyway, I feel like its coming, its still just a little clunky.
I reckon you’re right. They focused on defence in preseason so it was ready to go from Round One, which means the attack will need a bit longer to polish. It’s a great plan.

Can’t say I enjoyed Sunday as much as Rickman because I’m the Leipana of fans. But it was very satisfying to see them stick to the game plan and suffocate a team. Very unfamiliar territory.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by -TW- »

Watching it again, we nearly forced more repeat sets in that game than we did in 2018

It was what we've been screaming for years, just got spoilt by scoring 20+ points a game for years

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by BadnMean »

-TW- wrote: April 16, 2019, 9:29 pm Watching it again, we nearly forced more repeat sets in that game than we did in 2018

It was what we've been screaming for years, just got spoilt by scoring 20+ points a game for years

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Yes. It's a mindset flip.

We used to score 25 but still never actually be in control of the game.

Vs Eels (a top side so far) we grabbed the whole game by the scruff and their was only ever one team gonna do anything- us.

We didn't score 20 but who cares, we were the only team going to score and if they want to take some risks and try to cut us open- then go right ahead, take some risks and give our back 5 some chances and see what happens.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by papabear »

Moving away from the attacking problems.

His defence, I have never watched closely, because we always had so many issues outwide that took my attention.

Hodgsons defence in the middle has on the eye been quite average, any statmen out there, with a different story or perhaps someone with a different eye that thinks I am being biased against him?
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by edwahu »

His tackle efficiency is low amongst hookers with only Radley worse but it was blown out last weekend with Parra sending him a lot of traffic and nearly half his misses for the year coming from that game. Prior to last weekend he was one of the better 80 minute hookers.

His 1:1 tackles and inneffective tackles are relatively low for an 80 minute hooker and he is equal best amongst hookers for try causes and line break causes, with 0 for the year.

If I analysed those stats site unseen I would expect to see a defender with very good defensive discipline and some technique issues. That's what I see with Hodgson, he sometimes gets pushed off but as he works well with the players around him and they are very good defenders there is minimal negative impact.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Botman »

Yeah i think Hodgson is a good defensive decision maker in general, but is sometimes ineffective when he's the first contact with a ball carrier.
He's not someone i worry about as a defender, he is good at understanding his capabilities as a defender, he's active as a 2nd and 3rd man defender and does well to avoid those first contact instances which can sometimes cause him some trouble
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Northern Raider »

papabear wrote: April 17, 2019, 11:14 am Moving away from the attacking problems.

His defence, I have never watched closely, because we always had so many issues outwide that took my attention.

Hodgsons defence in the middle has on the eye been quite average, any statmen out there, with a different story or perhaps someone with a different eye that thinks I am being biased against him?
Its a fair comment but defense is not his key attribute. That said its more than adequate given his role within the team. For hookers you will always have the aggressive defenders like Koroisau. High workrate ones like Friend and McCullough. High efficieny tacklers like McInnes and Levi. Hodgo doesn't really fit any of those categories.

Provided he doesn't get isolated defensively its really not an area of concern.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by BadnMean »

edwahu wrote: April 17, 2019, 11:39 am His tackle efficiency is low amongst hookers with only Radley worse but it was blown out last weekend with Parra sending him a lot of traffic and nearly half his misses for the year coming from that game. Prior to last weekend he was one of the better 80 minute hookers.

His 1:1 tackles and inneffective tackles are relatively low for an 80 minute hooker and he is equal best amongst hookers for try causes and line break causes, with 0 for the year.

If I analysed those stats site unseen I would expect to see a defender with very good defensive discipline and some technique issues. That's what I see with Hodgson, he sometimes gets pushed off but as he works well with the players around him and they are very good defenders there is minimal negative impact.
Thanks for looking the stats up. I'd say that's a fair assessment. I remember being a bit shocked when I read he made 46 tackles last game when the Eels didn't really have much ball even. That's got to tire him out and explains why if he was soi buggered he maybe just stuck to the plan of short balls at the line instead of feeling full of energy and having the mental sharpness to take those half gaps on.
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papabear
Steve Walters
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by papabear »

I agree that defending isn’t what he is paid the big bucks for.

The problem for me is I think better sides then parra might get more success out of working him over to blunt his attack and pick up points.

And since his lateral movement in defence is to **** you can’t really hide him on the edges.

If he improved his hit a bit so teams didn’t target him so much I think the rest of his game would really improve opening everything else up for us.
The Nickman
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by The Nickman »

Wait, what?? In the space of a day we're now worried about Hodgo's defence?

Look, **** off and **** off now.
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