2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
1
6%
Raiders 1-12
9
56%
Draw
0
No votes
Storm 1-12
4
25%
Storm 13+
2
13%
 
Total votes: 16

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Botman
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Botman »

Chip and chases are very hard to execute and extremley low percentage
The strongly likelihood is a turn over

If I’m a coach and my defensive line is forcing teams to consider options like that, I’m not toning that down, I’m ramping it up. I want them making more low % plays
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Rickmando »

zilhouse wrote: March 23, 2019, 5:11 pm
Rickmando wrote: March 23, 2019, 1:51 pm
gergreg wrote: March 23, 2019, 11:22 am
-TW- wrote:Bit hard to chase them when they shell them down the back 3s throat all night

Didn't know we had Josh McCrone for a cameo appearance
For the first 40/50 odd minutes our strategy was one out forward hitups for 4 tackles which allowed us to be completely dominated in the ruck, which meant we weren't making any ground and weren't countering the wrestle. Because of this their wingers were dropping back on the fourth meaning there was not much open space to kick. We could have tried a few shorter kicks behind the line. We didn't have enough bodies in motion to stop our forwards from being monstered in gang tackles. This is something I believe Crawley would have rectified.

We have no plays, no structured play, it's like they just toss it around and wait for something to open up. This doesnt work against the top teams with good defence. You need structured plays to create gaps.

We were outcoached.

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I’d agree that our attacking structure has been sorely lacking for a long time. Even a massive Rick-head like me can see that.

But I’d also argue that our “improvised” attack leaves something to be desired. I love Jordy Raps and to a lesser extent BJ, but when those guys go to dummy half they run it 100% of the time. There’s no thought to pass it occasionally just to keep defences guessing/honest. Kicking is the same. What about the occasional chip over the top to put doubt in a fullbacks mind?

It seems as though we have blokes who are trying to follow a structured, rigid plan of attacking - but either they aren’t executing it very well, or the plan isn’t very good.

Bottom line - we have a lot of players in this team with low football IQ
I disagree with the bottom line man. A team with a guy like hodgson isnt low IQ. If your team is doing 4 one out hit ups they are doing it because they are coached to do that.
Its not always a bad strategy but at NRL level it generally is. There are a few ways that can work i.e. if you have a team full of big boppers who are hard to handle and get quick play the balls, or if youre playing a team in the wet who drop lots of footy i.e. titans. Doing that verses the storm is just asking for a pounding. They can get numbers into the tackles and slow it down so you lose any momentum. The way to beat the storm is through offloads, getting one on one tackles when you have the ball and complete at a high %.

The 2016 attack wasnt rigid. Our attack started to get rigid the last few games into 2018. Whoever is coaching attack at the moment is banking on playing under 15 level footy for the rest of the year.
EDIT Hodgson takes some VERY poor options for a player of his quality. His kicks near the line are rarely on, and neither are the crash balls or slow run-arounds...
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Aidan Sezer

Post by LastRaider »

I just don’t understand why we don’t just have Williams defend on the wing now. We know he struggles defensively so stick him out wide and bring everyone in 1 position


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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Rickmando »

PigRickman wrote: March 23, 2019, 6:07 pm Chip and chases are very hard to execute and extremley low percentage
The strongly likelihood is a turn over

If I’m a coach and my defensive line is forcing teams to consider options like that, I’m not toning that down, I’m ramping it up. I want them making more low % plays
Chip and chase was just a spit balled example.

I’ve got no doubt the modern day HC discourages this play, it is low percentage, but our players have to be willing to break the mould on occasions to mix up what we throw at the opposition - surely you’d agree our halves in particular are very ordinary at doing that?
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Re: Aidan Sezer

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Williams defence isn't that bad, it's not bad enough to justify keeping Sezer if Sezer doesn't improve significantly this week.
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Re: Aidan Sezer

Post by Botman »

LastRaider wrote: March 23, 2019, 6:13 pm I just don’t understand why we don’t just have Williams defend on the wing now. We know he struggles defensively so stick him out wide and bring everyone in 1 position


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I think that's a philosophical coaching decision. Some coaches are willing to do this kind of thing, we've seen a lot of bad defensive halves do this but i've never paid close enough attention to have an opinion on it's effectiveness.
But what i have noticed is it very much appears some coaches are just fundamentally opposed to it. If i had to guess, they would say, now i've got a half defending as a winger, i've got winger defending as a centre, and a centre as a halfback. We've weakened 3 positions and improved none. I can see that side of it, but yeah if Williams is brought in, Stuart might have to adjust his approach and find ways to hide him.

My Chris Anderson 1 marker policy insane idea has always been defend the weak man in the middle at hooker. He's tackling bigger guys but it's much harder to isolate him, you're not dealing with defending in space much, and use the additional speed to maybe help drive line speed. For us specifically, if Stuart turned to Williams, that's what i want him to do and i'd move John Bateman out wide into Sam's position defensively.
Green eyed Mick wrote: March 23, 2019, 6:34 pm Williams defence isn't that bad, it's not bad enough to justify keeping Sezer if Sezer doesn't improve significantly this week.
We lost 5-7 games last year pretty much solely through poor defence in that other halves spot. It's why Wighton is where he is. The lengths teams go to, in order to attack him in the red zone suggests the rest of the league does not share your opinion on it not being that bad.
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Re: Aidan Sezer

Post by The Nickman »

PigRickman wrote:We might be marginally better in attack, but we’d be significantly worse in defence
The game is played on both sides and unfortunately both options leave us exposed on one side.

I’ve watched enough footy and enough of this raiders team to say we’ve got the strike power to score points despite Sezer’s limitations
I’ve seen nothing to suggest we can stand up defensively with a player of Williams limitations

For me, it’s as simple as that. If we have to pick a poison here, defence wins more in this league more than offence
We’ve been the best attacking side in the league over the last 2 years and haven’t sniffed the play offs

Let’s hooe the pommy Williams can give us a little of both.
This is a very good point. Our attack is just fine, it’s our defence that needed improvement this season, I think we all agree on that.

Against the Storm it was actually our attack that let us down, we coughed the ball up in really good field position on SO many occasions, and Sezer wasn’t Robinson Crusoe in that regard.

If we defend like we did against the Storm when we play the Knights, and improve our handling in the red zone, we will beat the Knights.


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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

What I’m glad about is that in the light of day, the majority of articles I’ve read about the team and the game are very positive, which is the same way as I saw the result.

It’s good to see that not everybody shares the same doom and gloom it’s the end of the world thinking as some on this forum.

We’ll be better for this result.


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Re: Aidan Sezer

Post by KingDynamite »

I cannot understand the calls for Hingano. I haven’t seen anything from him that says he’s more deserving that Sezer nor that he would do a better job.

Neither Hingano or Williams are in the same conversation as Sezer when it comes to defence. That’s enough for him to stay in 1sts
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Re: Aidan Sezer

Post by RTW »

Defensively each position has a different role and depending where you are on the field that role changes again. Simply moving your half to the wing does not automatically fix things as they need to learn how to defend all over again. Good wingers instinctively know when to jam and when to stay out they also have an understanding of what the centre inside them will do.

As for moving into the middle you are tripling their workload. In my opinion Williams decision making is great at reserve grace speed but poor at first grade. If you add fatigue I think he would struggle further.

I think you need an old fashioned bodyguard of a second rower. In order to do that your edge man would need to play wider and be able to cover more ground laterally. Bateman May actually be the best player suited to this role in our team but by moving him you lose other advantages ehh having Tapine running at a half.



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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Leebola »

PigRickman wrote: March 23, 2019, 6:07 pm Chip and chases are very hard to execute and extremley low percentage
The strongly likelihood is a turn over

If I’m a coach and my defensive line is forcing teams to consider options like that, I’m not toning that down, I’m ramping it up. I want them making more low % plays
It doesn't need to be a chip-and-chase, perhaps a grubber, or perhaps a boot deep (something that DCE does to us every fkn game we play against him, with decent success). Either way, something that raises a question in the defence's mind.
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by WiganRaider »

Watched the full game back this morning and Melbourne just seem to do the 1% better than most sides.

Few stupid individual errors really didn't help and the Storm got on the bavk of that.

Coming from a Wigan fan I honestly don't think George Williams is the answer, just take a look how were going so far this year. I've been to every game home and away so far this season and apart from his short kicking game and probably better defence I just don't think he is worth the price tag being talked about.
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Re: Aidan Sezer

Post by gerg »

The Rickman wrote:
PigRickman wrote:We might be marginally better in attack, but we’d be significantly worse in defence
The game is played on both sides and unfortunately both options leave us exposed on one side.

I’ve watched enough footy and enough of this raiders team to say we’ve got the strike power to score points despite Sezer’s limitations
I’ve seen nothing to suggest we can stand up defensively with a player of Williams limitations

For me, it’s as simple as that. If we have to pick a poison here, defence wins more in this league more than offence
We’ve been the best attacking side in the league over the last 2 years and haven’t sniffed the play offs

Let’s hooe the pommy Williams can give us a little of both.
This is a very good point. Our attack is just fine, it’s our defence that needed improvement this season, I think we all agree on that.

Against the Storm it was actually our attack that let us down, we coughed the ball up in really good field position on SO many occasions, and Sezer wasn’t Robinson Crusoe in that regard.

If we defend like we did against the Storm when we play the Knights, and improve our handling in the red zone, we will beat the Knights.


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I think we're playing the knights at a decent time (hope I'm not jinxing it). They haven't quite clicked yet, Pearce isn't playing at the standard he did at the start of last year and they are as one dimensional in attack as us. Make Ponga do 40 tackles for the game and kick in behind Edrick and we should be a decent chance. We also need a strong start to contain Klemer.

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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by zim »

Sezer's Palace wrote: March 23, 2019, 4:56 pm A few thoughts:

- I've been really impressed by CNK so far but something to keep an eye on is his positioning for the Storm's second try. Not sure if it's a tactic or just a brain explosion but he did it against the Bulldogs in the trial as well and we were almost caught out. Hopefully doesn't happen again.
- I'd probably rather see someone else in for Lui. He's been ineffective carting the ball in both games and he's not a particularly strong defender. Would probably like to see Guler come in but haven't seen any of Mounties this season so not sure who's been strong there.
- I don't think Sezer was as bad as has been said. Granted, his first 20 was awful and that kick for Rapana in particular was both a bad idea/bad execution but I thought after that he was okay. Hodgson's decisions in the red zone frustrated me more so than Sezer's and I thought he did a better job of straightening/taking on the line this week. He needs to stand closer to the ruck as first receiver, at the moment he is standing so far away that it's a difficult pass to make and it's causing him to start flat footed.
- I'd like to see us utilise Whitehead better in attack. He's such a weapon with his hands/hole running/short kick chase but at the moment he's just being used for tough carries/short balls. We also need to get Leilua more early ball, going to the right seems to be an after thought at the moment.
- Rapana looked a bit underdone but it was great to have his enthusiasm back.
- Horsburgh will be great if he can get those dumb penalties out of his game. Love his aggression and offload but has to be more disciplined.

I think that's all for the moment. The Storm have been clinical to start the season and I think we were overwhelmed by their intensity and ruck control. With a 7 day turnaround I'm still very confident we'll do the Knights.
CNK noticed we were short on numbers and made the decision to inject himself. Croft saw this and reacted well. It was good eyes up footy from him.
CNK just made a bad decision here, but it won't be the last time he's in the line as that's how we defend. Sometimes it'll be the right decision and he'll still get burnt.
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Northern Raider »

Storm were simply better than us. Our guys were a little flat off the 5 day turnaround and they made us pay. Not too concerned as it's a game most of us would have pencilled in as a loss. Next week against Knights will be a better indicator of where we're at.
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Re: Aidan Sezer

Post by RedRaider »

Green eyed Mick wrote: March 23, 2019, 6:34 pm Williams defence isn't that bad, it's not bad enough to justify keeping Sezer if Sezer doesn't improve significantly this week.
I don't see what Sezer has done to justify the support for him. In his four years with the Titans they did not make the finals. He came here in 2016 and at the back end of that season the Raiders went on a 10 game winning streak to make the finals. We've not seen that replicated. Their was some unbelievable stuff from Leipana in that streak. I am one of the biggest defensophiles on here, but the defence is helped by a good kicking game and kick chase. We don't see that consistently from Sezer. In fact I am still amazed that we kicked to Vunivalu's wing so often (at least I was until he kicked the other way and put it into the car park). The young fullback would have been a shorter less athletic target imo, but that instruction may have come from the HC.
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Re: Aidan Sezer

Post by zim »

RedRaider wrote: March 23, 2019, 11:24 pm
Green eyed Mick wrote: March 23, 2019, 6:34 pm Williams defence isn't that bad, it's not bad enough to justify keeping Sezer if Sezer doesn't improve significantly this week.
I don't see what Sezer has done to justify the support for him. In his four years with the Titans they did not make the finals. He came here in 2016 and at the back end of that season the Raiders went on a 10 game winning streak to make the finals. We've not seen that replicated. Their was some unbelievable stuff from Leipana in that streak. I am one of the biggest defensophiles on here, but the defence is helped by a good kicking game and kick chase. We don't see that consistently from Sezer. In fact I am still amazed that we kicked to Vunivalu's wing so often (at least I was until he kicked the other way and put it into the car park). The young fullback would have been a shorter less athletic target imo, but that instruction may have come from the HC.
He has known issues under the high ball. If he wasn't our main target for bombs we're doing the wrong thing.
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2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by LastRaider »

zim wrote:
RedRaider wrote: March 23, 2019, 11:24 pm
Green eyed Mick wrote: March 23, 2019, 6:34 pm Williams defence isn't that bad, it's not bad enough to justify keeping Sezer if Sezer doesn't improve significantly this week.
I don't see what Sezer has done to justify the support for him. In his four years with the Titans they did not make the finals. He came here in 2016 and at the back end of that season the Raiders went on a 10 game winning streak to make the finals. We've not seen that replicated. Their was some unbelievable stuff from Leipana in that streak. I am one of the biggest defensophiles on here, but the defence is helped by a good kicking game and kick chase. We don't see that consistently from Sezer. In fact I am still amazed that we kicked to Vunivalu's wing so often (at least I was until he kicked the other way and put it into the car park). The young fullback would have been a shorter less athletic target imo, but that instruction may have come from the HC.
He has known issues under the high ball. If he wasn't our main target for bombs we're doing the wrong thing.
Yeah he is just so inconsistent with his kicking game all the time. I can forgive average kicking at some away games especially in North Queensland where the air is heavier etc. but on your home ground where you know the ball travels a little further he should be spot on 95% of the time and he just isn’t. Just no where near!


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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

Peter Sterling really picked Corey Horsburgh for some criticism on The Sunday Footy Show... it might not have been the most sensible thing... and it's probably good advice... but a bit unfair to single him out...
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Raider Azz »

greeneyed wrote:Peter Sterling really picked Corey Horsburgh for some criticism on The Sunday Footy Show... it might not have been the most sensible thing... and it's probably good advice... but a bit unfair to single him out...
Sterling has long gone senile. Was once a great mind, but seems to consistently get it wrong these days.

I was done with him when he dedicated an entire article to telling BJ off for sledging when he scored the winning try against the Bulldogs when the Morris twins had been giving it worse to BJ all game.

Hopefully Corey pays no attention, and I'm sure Ricky and the senior players will tell him the same.

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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Botman »

Don’t watch channel 9 and stunned by anyone who does
But let’s not pretend Horsburgh is a finished product above constructive criticism

If that’s what Sterling was delivering, fair enough.
We all like this kid and see a bright future but there no question he had a VERY poor game on the weekend
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by -PJ- »

He's a diamond that needs polishing.

I'm sure he's working hard on fixing up a few errors hes been making, he'll be fine.

I'm loving the effort though, fantastic technique in defence.
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Re: Aidan Sezer

Post by RedRaider »

zim wrote: March 23, 2019, 11:44 pm
RedRaider wrote: March 23, 2019, 11:24 pm
Green eyed Mick wrote: March 23, 2019, 6:34 pm Williams defence isn't that bad, it's not bad enough to justify keeping Sezer if Sezer doesn't improve significantly this week.
I don't see what Sezer has done to justify the support for him. In his four years with the Titans they did not make the finals. He came here in 2016 and at the back end of that season the Raiders went on a 10 game winning streak to make the finals. We've not seen that replicated. Their was some unbelievable stuff from Leipana in that streak. I am one of the biggest defensophiles on here, but the defence is helped by a good kicking game and kick chase. We don't see that consistently from Sezer. In fact I am still amazed that we kicked to Vunivalu's wing so often (at least I was until he kicked the other way and put it into the car park). The young fullback would have been a shorter less athletic target imo, but that instruction may have come from the HC.
He has known issues under the high ball. If he wasn't our main target for bombs we're doing the wrong thing.
He didn't seem to have too many problems against us Zim. The two I remember were: one from Sezer about the middle of the first half which he took easily and then one from Jack early in the second half which he again took easily. We have a large body who can jump high in Jack. Why wouldn't we put the ball up to the shorter fullback Hughes and have Jack challenge for the ball? If Vunivalu has had problems in the past I image the meticulous Bellamy would have worked with him to correct it.
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

Raider Azz wrote: Hopefully Corey pays no attention, and I'm sure Ricky and the senior players will tell him the same.
Hmmm... if they share your attitude then no wonder we don’t learn from mistakes.

He had a shocker. He should be very focussed on fixing it if he likes playing first grade.
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

PigRickman wrote: March 24, 2019, 12:17 pm Don’t watch channel 9 and stunned by anyone who does
But let’s not pretend Horsburgh is a finished product above constructive criticism

If that’s what Sterling was delivering, fair enough.
We all like this kid and see a bright future but there no question he had a VERY poor game on the weekend
The Sunday Footy Show is a pretty good show. I always watch Fox League in preference to Nine... but Fox League can be pretty boof head like these days themselves. Matty Johns, Fletch and Hindy, the "Professor"... they're all the biggest boof heads of rugby league magazine shows. Nine seems to have lost Beau Ryan (?) but they have brought in Sam Thaiday... so they are putting up a big challenge to reclaim the title for the biggest boof head in rugby league television today.

What Sterling highlighted was the Storm losing the ball... and Horsburgh actually ran in to give the Storm player a head/hair rub. And it caused a scrap. Not the best thing to do... and best not to repeat it... but given the show devoted five minutes to each game and spent a good minute of it on this issue in our case... it was a bit unfair. There was a lot of actual footy advice Sterling could have given the Raiders if he'd chosen to be analytical. It was an "easy" thing to highlight, and probably the least of our problems in that game.
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

-PJ- wrote: March 24, 2019, 12:25 pm He's a diamond that needs polishing.

I'm sure he's working hard on fixing up a few errors hes been making, he'll be fine.

I'm loving the effort though, fantastic technique in defence.
I agree.
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by -PJ- »

I'm sorry..

But what the official crowd at GIO on Friday ?

I missed it !!

Cheers in advance.
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by BJ »

greeneyed wrote:
-PJ- wrote: March 24, 2019, 12:25 pm He's a diamond that needs polishing.

I'm sure he's working hard on fixing up a few errors hes been making, he'll be fine.

I'm loving the effort though, fantastic technique in defence.
I agree.
Yep agree as well. He looks promising.

The sooner he can become calm and calculated on the footy field the better player he will be.

Controlled aggro is a must for fiery League players in the current way the game is played.
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

-PJ- wrote: March 24, 2019, 2:00 pm I'm sorry..

But what the official crowd at GIO on Friday ?

I missed it !!

Cheers in advance.
Reported above by The Greenhouse. It was over 14,000.
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by -PJ- »

greeneyed wrote: March 24, 2019, 2:19 pm
-PJ- wrote: March 24, 2019, 2:00 pm I'm sorry..

But what the official crowd at GIO on Friday ?

I missed it !!

Cheers in advance.
Reported above by The Greenhouse. It was over 14,000.
Thanks GE.
14k is pretty decent. Let's hope for even more next Friday.
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by BJ »

Yep was a really good solid crowd.
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

BJ wrote: March 24, 2019, 2:32 pm Yep was a really good solid crowd.
Especially for Friday night 6pm kick off. But the loss will probably take some of those numbers out of the crowd next week.
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by raiderskater »

-PJ- wrote: March 24, 2019, 2:00 pm I'm sorry..

But what the official crowd at GIO on Friday ?

I missed it !!

Cheers in advance.
14 something. Which, for the timeslot and the way the weather was forecast, was actually really good, I thought.
And to all the people who doubted me, hello to them as well. - Mark Webber, Raiders Ballboy and Unluckiest F1 Driver Ever

I'm attacking in the right way, instead of just...attacking in the general direction. - Max Aaron (also eerily apropos for the Green Machine)
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-TW-
Mal Meninga
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

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Brew
Steve Walters
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Re: 2019 Rd 2 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Brew »

Does anyone know why the captain (or captains) are no longer part of the press conferences after the game anymore?


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