Canberra Raiders back NRL integrity unit taking over player punishment

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Lui_Bon
Jason Croker
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Re: Something awry with NRL's salary cap compensation

Post by Lui_Bon »

Beejay wrote: February 27, 2019, 9:06 am
Lui_Bon wrote: February 26, 2019, 10:53 pm
Beejay wrote: February 26, 2019, 5:27 pm I think Players should be stood down on pay while facing these kinds of serious charges.
Why in the world would anyone have a problem with the club being able to go and replace the player?
So the team has to run a player short in their roster, as what, some kind of punishment for having a player charged?
It makes total sense to make the player exempt from the cap during the period they are stood down on pay!
I realize the discussion has continued, but to answer this question: "Why in the world would anyone have a problem with the club being able to go and replace the player"

The answer is because the Club can not distance itself from the people it employs. Like it or not, the man works for the St George Illawarra Dragons. He effects their fanbase, their sponsorship, the fans and sponsors of every other club - in short, they signed the alleged criminal, they provided his "pastoral care", they can not now walk away saying "oh well, turns out he was a criminal, we'll sign someone else on his money".

Sadly that's the price they pay while he is subject to the law of the land, which includes a supposition of innocence for him. I don't believe that it can be realistically or fairly applied to the club to just go out and find a like-for-like replacement. In playing terms. And if he's innocent, the damage remains, and a proportionate loss of roster strength to his club is a small price to pay.

As for whether he gets paid or not, I guess maybe he should be paid, because he's innocent until proven guilty. After all, if he's guilty, that's the last payday he's ever getting. And if he's innocent, well, he's at least paid his debts.
It's not clear to me exactly what you are saying here, but I'll do my best to respond to a few things;

**The answer is because the Club can not distance itself from the people it employs. Like it or not, the man works for the St George Illawarra Dragons. He effects their fanbase, their sponsorship, the fans and sponsors of every other club - in short, they signed the alleged criminal, they provided his "pastoral care"**
Clearly this has damaged the Dragons brand and affected current and future sponsorship. The Dragons (and DeBelin) have already been punished in some way whether he gets found guilty or not. Also I think 'pastoral care' for a footy club is a stretch.. some of these blokes are signing 1-2 year contracts to play football.

**they can not now walk away saying "oh well, turns out he was a criminal, we'll sign someone else on his money"**
He's not yet a criminal. We are in the difficult spot of credible allegations being made. If we are standing down a player on these allegations, due to their seriousness and the fact and NRL player is in a public position of respect (and we should). Well then, the club should be able to fill their roster spot while the player is being stood down.
If Debelin is found Guilty, or pleads guilty at any stage his contract will be torn up. So your quote above of "oh well, turns out he was a criminal, we'll sign someone else on his money" is bloody exactly what will happen. And does happen.

**As for whether he gets paid or not, I guess maybe he should be paid**
He should definitely get paid. I can't really see how anyone could make the argument that he shouldn't while declaring his innocence. Even if you wanted to not pay him, you legally couldn't.

I can see that people are getting worked up about this based on comparing it to Rapana. But really they are completely different.
Rapana got injured in a Rep game, so the Salary Cap exemption is to help the clubs that are providing the players for these Rep games. To take the edge of their motivation to rule them out of Rep games ect.
DeBelin we are standing him down for Moral and PR reasons. He is saying he's innocent, but the NRL won't let him play until he clears his name.
If you are going to stand someone down in that instance, it's entirely reasonable to allow the club to 'replace' the player in the squad, and for the same amount makes sense.
Hi Beejay, I think you made more sense of my post than I did. In my usual inarticulate way, I think what I was trying to say was a) the Dragons should suffer because they nurtured him, and they're the Dragons - who stopped us from having Souths Logan. But more seriously because clubs must take some responsibility for the actions of their employees, even though that's a test that even cabinet ministers fail. b) because of point a), the club should not just get off scot free by replacing a crim with someone else. It's the vibe of the thing - and yes, I'm aware he isn't at this moment guilty of anything. c) glad we agree that as an as-yet innocent man, the club should honour its contract.

Though on that last point, given the purpose of the slaray cap was always stated to be stopping clubs from spending beyond their means (rather than stopping Murdoch and Polites from buying everyone), perhaps clubs shouldn't be able to just lash out on an extra 600 grand while still up for the existing 600k?

So when you ask "I think he should be stood down. But i'm not sure why everyone wants to start dishing out the punishment to the Dragons immediately before DeBelin has even put his defence forward...", I'd have to ask, why should the Dragons be allowed to double dip?
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thedevilingreen
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Re: Something awry with NRL's salary cap compensation

Post by thedevilingreen »

So what about the young women in all this. Think she's sitting there going oh it's cool he's a footy player let him play.
Maybe we can get her to make a passionate plea to the NRL to give the dragons an extra 600 grand just because old mate "allegedly" can't keep it in his pants.
Man I can't wait till a big name player kills someone The NRL will probably just give his club the premiership just so the club and fans aren't so hard done by

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greeneyed
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Re: Canberra Raiders back NRL integrity unit to take over player punishment

Post by greeneyed »

Canberra Raiders back NRL integrity unit taking over player punishment

The NRL integrity unit will take over disciplinary action for all off-field incidents after the Canberra Raiders raised the idea at the annual general meeting on Thursday. There's no timeframe yet on when that will come into place, but it is on the governing body's agenda.

"I think it's not a bad outcome. There's a few things that will still have to be clarified, but as far as I'm concerned absolutely agree with and support the decision they've come to," Raiders Chairman Allan Hawke said.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/ ... 510wg.html
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Green eyed Mick
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Re: Canberra Raiders back NRL integrity unit taking over player punishment

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Good idea.
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Woodgers
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Re: Canberra Raiders back NRL integrity unit taking over player punishment

Post by Woodgers »

Not the worst idea until you consider that the NRL hammer the Raiders harder than any other club. I'd wager that Papali would have been sat down for throwing that moisturiser bottle because technically it COULD be a 11 year offence (in Yemen).
We continue to **** about with blokes that are part of some fraternity. It's infuriating.
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Botman
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Re: Canberra Raiders back NRL integrity unit taking over player punishment

Post by Botman »

Not any more
Our guy Rick managed to get Jacky Boy less time served for mindlessly assaulting people than Mitchell Pearce got for not even breaking the law

It's all coming up Rickhouse, Woodgers
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BJ
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Re: Canberra Raiders back NRL integrity unit taking over player punishment

Post by BJ »

PigRickman wrote:Not any more
Our guy Rick managed to get Jacky Boy less time served for mindlessly assaulting people than Mitchell Pearce got for not even breaking the law

It's all coming up Rickhouse, Woodgers
Didn’t Pearce get a lower length suspension than Jack?

I also thought Pearce was suspended more for the Sex threats on the woman and some of his priors. It’s just that everybody remembers the dog stuff, not all the other stuff that went with it.
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Botman
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Re: Canberra Raiders back NRL integrity unit taking over player punishment

Post by Botman »

BJ wrote: March 1, 2019, 8:33 am
PigRickman wrote:Not any more
Our guy Rick managed to get Jacky Boy less time served for mindlessly assaulting people than Mitchell Pearce got for not even breaking the law

It's all coming up Rickhouse, Woodgers
Didn’t Pearce get a lower length suspension than Jack?

I also thought Pearce was suspended more for the Sex threats on the woman and some of his priors. It’s just that everybody remembers the dog stuff, not all the other stuff that went with it.
Ooof my apologies, for some reason in my head i had Pearce down at 12 weeks, rather than 8.
Still getting Jack back after 10 weeks for committing his crimes compared to Pearce's 8 is a MAJOR win for Rick. Al he does is win, win, win.
Danaman137
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Re: Canberra Raiders back NRL integrity unit taking over player punishment

Post by Danaman137 »

Really happy with all the decisions they’ve made in the last few days regarding player discipline. Finally coming down hard, been a long time coming.


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Beejay
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Re: Canberra Raiders back NRL integrity unit taking over player punishment

Post by Beejay »

Same with me. I think they've largely got it right, and new rules in place for automatic and discretion standdowns is the best result. Non-automatic cap relief, but the presumption it will be given as long as culture is addressed is probably the best result.
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greeneyed
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Re: Canberra Raiders back NRL integrity unit taking over player punishment

Post by greeneyed »

If anything, they went a bit light on the penalties for salary cap cheating... but they have got it pretty right over the past two days. I still have concerns about salary cap relief for stood down players... they should not be more generous than for injured rep players. The NRL effectively side stepped that in their announcement yesterday.
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Re: Canberra Raiders back NRL integrity unit taking over player punishment

Post by gerg »

greeneyed wrote:If anything, they went a bit light on the penalties for salary cap cheating... but they have got it pretty right over the past two days. I still have concerns about salary cap relief for stood down players... they should not be more generous than for injured rep players. The NRL effectively side stepped that in their announcement yesterday.
I agree but realistically who are they going to sign? Particularly in regards to a replacement for DeBelin. Most squads are set now, they might get a Sharks discard but they're hardly in a position to find a comparable replacement for DeBelin. Nobody of any note is going to switch clubs at this point for what could be a 7 month contract.

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