Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by reptar » September 21, 2019, 4:22 pm

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by kiwi raider » September 22, 2019, 9:28 am

I know its a different competition but i'm fairly certain George Williams is considered a strong defensive half over in the uk

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by The Nickman » September 22, 2019, 10:01 am

afgtnk wrote:I'm ok on his defence personally, it should be able to hold up. He's pretty stocky and seems to hit well. Sezer doesn't tend to do much defensive work either - he makes the least amount of tackles and second least amount of 1 on 1 tackles per game out of the 16 regular halfbacks.
You realise that’s because he’s good defensively, so no team actively targets him like they do the other halfbacks, right?

It’s so good not having a weakness in the halves that other teams run all their plays at, it’s actually quite rare
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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by afgtnk » September 22, 2019, 1:43 pm

There are at least half a dozen halfbacks in the comp that defend better than him. He's also missed the 8th most tackles and is 10th in tackle effieciency out of the 16 halfbacks.

Me thinks you're just making a lazy, generalised statement which tries to sound smart but has no factual basis whatsoever.

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by The Nickman » September 22, 2019, 1:52 pm

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by Cranky Old Man » September 22, 2019, 2:02 pm

afgtnk wrote:
September 22, 2019, 1:43 pm
There are at least half a dozen halfbacks in the comp that defend better than him. He's also missed the 8th most tackles and is 10th in tackle effieciency out of the 16 halfbacks.

Me thinks you're just making a lazy, generalised statement which tries to sound smart but has no factual basis whatsoever.
I can't think of any who are markedly better in defence. The standard method in the game nowadays is for a forward to partner up with a half to assist in defence. Sezer is no different, but he seems to be fairly robust with good speed in defence. I can remember some outstanding tackles he has made, not many outlandish misses. FAQ plus would be my rating.

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by The Nickman » September 22, 2019, 2:12 pm

Cranky Old Man wrote:
afgtnk wrote:
September 22, 2019, 1:43 pm
There are at least half a dozen halfbacks in the comp that defend better than him. He's also missed the 8th most tackles and is 10th in tackle effieciency out of the 16 halfbacks.

Me thinks you're just making a lazy, generalised statement which tries to sound smart but has no factual basis whatsoever.
I can't think of any who are markedly better in defence. The standard method in the game nowadays is for a forward to partner up with a half to assist in defence. Sezer is no different, but he seems to be fairly robust with good speed in defence. I can remember some outstanding tackles he has made, not many outlandish misses. FAQ plus would be my rating.
Agreed Cranky. Like I said in my previous post, it’s really great having no weakness either side of the ruck which opposition teams aim at and try to exploit

It really is a key reason our defence has been so outstanding this season
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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by afgtnk » September 22, 2019, 2:31 pm

Cranky Old Man wrote:
September 22, 2019, 2:02 pm
afgtnk wrote:
September 22, 2019, 1:43 pm
There are at least half a dozen halfbacks in the comp that defend better than him. He's also missed the 8th most tackles and is 10th in tackle effieciency out of the 16 halfbacks.

Me thinks you're just making a lazy, generalised statement which tries to sound smart but has no factual basis whatsoever.
I can't think of any who are markedly better in defence. The standard method in the game nowadays is for a forward to partner up with a half to assist in defence. Sezer is no different, but he seems to be fairly robust with good speed in defence. I can remember some outstanding tackles he has made, not many outlandish misses. FAQ plus would be my rating.
A guy like Lachlan Lewis is making nearly 10 more tackles per game, making the most one on ones, and yet still misses fewer tackles. Then you've got guys like DCE and Cronk, who have long been the gold standard for halfbacks.

I can appreciate that's what you recall, however I believe recollections and the old 'eye test' generally tend to serve a specific narrative that has been built. I don't think Sezer is poor defensively, but he's not a gun either - he's about middle of the range, which is what all the related numbers seems to suggest too. His strengths seem to be first contact and using his stocky frame to stop the ball carriers momentum.

Relating that back to the topic, I think Williams will be fine on the same accord given his physical attributes and from what I've seen of him defensively.

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by -PJ- » September 22, 2019, 3:26 pm

I've seen a fair bit of GWilliams recently...

And considering Sezers recent form..which imo has been very good.

George is still an upgrade.

Can't wait for him to arrive, he'll be joining a premiership winning side of course..
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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by Botman » September 22, 2019, 4:21 pm

This has been an illuminating last few posts
Really threw me for a loop. Didn’t see it coming at all
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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by edwahu » September 22, 2019, 5:50 pm

I've really enjoyed our amazing defense this year, especially the contribution of Sezer.

Makes a nice change from the more tackle efficient Blake Austin last year.

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by Coastalraider » September 22, 2019, 6:13 pm

The Rickman wrote:
September 22, 2019, 2:12 pm
Cranky Old Man wrote:
afgtnk wrote:
September 22, 2019, 1:43 pm
There are at least half a dozen halfbacks in the comp that defend better than him. He's also missed the 8th most tackles and is 10th in tackle effieciency out of the 16 halfbacks.

Me thinks you're just making a lazy, generalised statement which tries to sound smart but has no factual basis whatsoever.
I can't think of any who are markedly better in defence. The standard method in the game nowadays is for a forward to partner up with a half to assist in defence. Sezer is no different, but he seems to be fairly robust with good speed in defence. I can remember some outstanding tackles he has made, not many outlandish misses. FAQ plus would be my rating.
Agreed Cranky. Like I said in my previous post, it’s really great having no weakness either side of the ruck which opposition teams aim at and try to exploit

It really is a key reason our defence has been so outstanding this season
1 very subtle but visible difference in our squad this year is Jack at 6, and the difference that makes to the defensive line. We all know he is strong defensively, but it actually leads to throwing base plays out of whack with opposing teams.

So many teams train and create set plays to get edge backrowers 1on1 with halves. It pays dividends with halves like Austin and Sam Williams, but watch what other teams have to do on our edge - they are thrown a curve ball and are trying to AVOID the half. I have a feeling that this is a small part of Croker having some issues every now and then, but it is a unique gift to have - can anyone name another team who have a half that opposing teams actively try to avoid??

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by Botman » September 22, 2019, 7:03 pm

I dont think it's very subtle at all

Last year we had games where Blake Austin and Sam Williams were in the halves, that's a BRIGHT **** red target sign. And teams treated it as such, and we were a bad defensive team... it's not even about their own misses, it what they do to those around them, the lack of confidence it breeds and the flow on effect of that is you get a half who cant defend, and a back rower next to them who is terrified of leaving them one on one and how that impacts their own decision making in defence, and then a centre outside them who is constantly cheating inside to help protect the half because they dont trust them... and it's just a cluster ****

Really good teams with great defensive structures can cover up for one guy who isnt great, but when you've got them on both sides and they are arent just "not great" but are actually 2-3 of the worst guys in the entire league, you dont have a **** prayer. **** we ran up about a 300-30 score line against the tigers over 5-6 games, doing nothing except running plays at Moses and Brooks

Now the upgrades made in the middle of the park have helped a lot too. Bateman replacing Papalii on the edge has been a defensive upgrade, and Papalii bringing that little bit extra athleticism and lateral movement over the fat boys has been huge there too.

But as some point your halves have to make 1 on 1 tackles and if they cant do it reliably, you cant win reliably in this league. It's why im really keen to see Georgey in defence. I've never seen him play properly but i dont have concerns that he wont be an upgrade for us as a creative play maker, but ultimately unless he's an ELITE level offensive play maker like Maloney (who is a garbage defender but makes up for it), if he's a liability in defence, it's not going to be a net positive for us.
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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by Botman » September 22, 2019, 7:10 pm

And ill say im pretty optimistic, as said, no concerns about his attacking game, we're not very creative right now in the halves, Jack will grow into that, and he'll be an upgrade on Sezer in that department... and those who have seen him, and do know what they are talking about seem to suggest he's a willing defender and a smart decision maker... it's a cliche but defence is largely about attitude. Georgey Boy sounds like he's got the right stuff.

it's pretty exciting to be here in a home prelim final and be getting what could be IMO, 3 pretty major upgrades in the spine.
George over Sezer, and then the expected development jumps from Wighton and CNK
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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by Coastalraider » September 22, 2019, 7:30 pm

The subtlety isn’t that one defence is better the subtlety is how having a hitman at 6 unsettles attacking moves on that side.

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by Begbie » September 28, 2019, 7:24 pm

Came across this exchange as I was snooping around the Wigan supporters site. Bit of an anticlimax with William's reply but I laughed.

The Wigan Effect!
josie andrews wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:29 pm
Said to George Williams when we reached second spot, how would you feel if your first game with Canberra was the WCC v Wigan Warriors??
The booze hound wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:32 pm
And what did George Williams reply?
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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by greeneyed » October 15, 2019, 7:04 pm

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by afgtnk » October 15, 2019, 7:20 pm

Thanks for posting that, it's hard to come by compilations of Super League players.

He's not gonna be able to cut through NRL defences like that when running but he'll retain that lateral movement and speed, which looks quite good for a half.

His support play is impressive so if he has the right level of fitness come the NRL season we should be able to look forward to seeing some more of our chances converted.

Judging from what I've seen of him and what Wigan fans say on their forums, he's going to benefit massively from having the likes of Whitehead, Bateman, Tapine, and Papalii run lines for him when passing. Seems to have good sleight of hand and and a decent no look ball.

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by Botman » October 15, 2019, 7:39 pm

Looks great. Hope he lives up to it.
I dont know what to take away from those highlights because all i can see is touch footy level defense... probably why it suits Blake Austin.

We need some creativity in the halves, but as this season showed, it's vital that our half be able to hold their own in the defensive line. We arent going one better with a Sam Williams/Blake Austin level defender, he doesnt have to be Trevor Gillmeister, he's just got to be good enough that his inside and outside men trust him to make the tackles he should make 90% of the time

If he can defend to that level, im pretty confident he'll clear a pretty low bar in terms of an upgrade in halves creativity, and we'll have ourselves a pretty good spine. From limited viewing the thing i will say is he looks a willing defender. He doesnt seem to shy away from contact. He's competitive in that regard which is a good start.

Im going in cautiously as always, because despite all our successes so far, i still dont really trust english players, ESPECIALLY halves... but very optimistic.
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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by afgtnk » October 15, 2019, 7:49 pm

I've seen plenty of Wigan fans call him the best defensive half in the Super League - so as long as does the right training in the off season and gets the right protection from the inside I think he'll be just fine.

The main concern I've repeatedly read about him is his organisation and his decision making, which was also one of the biggest criticisms of Sezer. Tbh it's hard to pick up that aspect with minimal footage, and then also figure how that'll translate to the different speed and D lines of the NRL.

I think if he can bring a quality short kicking and passing game, plus support play, he'll already be a sizeable upgrade.

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by Botman » October 15, 2019, 7:52 pm

Yeah I tend to agree
As said, the bar creatively isn’t particularly high, so as long he can be a middle of the road defender as a half, then it’s just a matter how how his running game, short kicking game and passing game... which look great over there... transitions to NRL speed to know what level of upgrade we have
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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by Billy Walker » October 15, 2019, 7:56 pm

Hard not to be impressed by that!

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by zim » October 15, 2019, 8:16 pm

There's some real Bateman about the way he goes about is work.
Throwing long and short balls off both sides. Good short kicking game. A danger with the ball in hand. Looks like a definite upgrade.

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by Beejay » October 15, 2019, 8:52 pm

I took the time to watch plenty of full games and skill wise he has it. Passing long and short is strong, great short kicking game, and strong runner of the ball and bounces out of tackles a fair bit.
Will come down to between the ears. Can he do it under more pressure.
He plays on the left but skips to the right occasionally. He’s also a right foot kicker, which is usually better to be on the right side for.
Will be interesting how Stuart plays that since Jack should be left and Williams right, so Williams will be switching sides in the NRL. Both Jack and Williams like to get the ball at second reciever, however there’s games where Williams touches the ball 3 times a set at first reciever. How will that play out with tactics I wonder.
Very interesting times.

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by Azza » October 15, 2019, 9:05 pm

What a bunch of turnstiles they are in the ESL

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by julian87 » October 15, 2019, 9:12 pm

afgtnk wrote:
September 22, 2019, 2:31 pm
Cranky Old Man wrote:
September 22, 2019, 2:02 pm
afgtnk wrote:
September 22, 2019, 1:43 pm
There are at least half a dozen halfbacks in the comp that defend better than him. He's also missed the 8th most tackles and is 10th in tackle effieciency out of the 16 halfbacks.

Me thinks you're just making a lazy, generalised statement which tries to sound smart but has no factual basis whatsoever.
I can't think of any who are markedly better in defence. The standard method in the game nowadays is for a forward to partner up with a half to assist in defence. Sezer is no different, but he seems to be fairly robust with good speed in defence. I can remember some outstanding tackles he has made, not many outlandish misses. FAQ plus would be my rating.
A guy like Lachlan Lewis is making nearly 10 more tackles per game, making the most one on ones, and yet still misses fewer tackles. Then you've got guys like DCE and Cronk, who have long been the gold standard for halfbacks.

I can appreciate that's what you recall, however I believe recollections and the old 'eye test' generally tend to serve a specific narrative that has been built. I don't think Sezer is poor defensively, but he's not a gun either - he's about middle of the range, which is what all the related numbers seems to suggest too. His strengths seem to be first contact and using his stocky frame to stop the ball carriers momentum.

Relating that back to the topic, I think Williams will be fine on the same accord given his physical attributes and from what I've seen of him defensively.
Bit late here but I don't agree with much of this post at all really. I reckon Sezer is the halfback teams least want to run out hence makes less tackles than someone like Lachlan Lewis.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by julian87 » October 15, 2019, 9:16 pm

I think the signing is definitely worth the risk when you look at what you have to choose from in the NRL. I'm hopeful that it works but the big if is if he has it in him to become a right side player. Not only does he have to master that but he has to do it while stepping up in the NRL. I'm not concerned about his defence or kicking (though realistically field goals probably become a problem next season) though.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by Sid » October 15, 2019, 9:30 pm

Could use a bit more goosey
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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by afgtnk » October 15, 2019, 9:38 pm

julian87 wrote:
October 15, 2019, 9:12 pm
afgtnk wrote:
September 22, 2019, 2:31 pm
Cranky Old Man wrote:
September 22, 2019, 2:02 pm
afgtnk wrote:
September 22, 2019, 1:43 pm
There are at least half a dozen halfbacks in the comp that defend better than him. He's also missed the 8th most tackles and is 10th in tackle effieciency out of the 16 halfbacks.

Me thinks you're just making a lazy, generalised statement which tries to sound smart but has no factual basis whatsoever.
I can't think of any who are markedly better in defence. The standard method in the game nowadays is for a forward to partner up with a half to assist in defence. Sezer is no different, but he seems to be fairly robust with good speed in defence. I can remember some outstanding tackles he has made, not many outlandish misses. FAQ plus would be my rating.
A guy like Lachlan Lewis is making nearly 10 more tackles per game, making the most one on ones, and yet still misses fewer tackles. Then you've got guys like DCE and Cronk, who have long been the gold standard for halfbacks.

I can appreciate that's what you recall, however I believe recollections and the old 'eye test' generally tend to serve a specific narrative that has been built. I don't think Sezer is poor defensively, but he's not a gun either - he's about middle of the range, which is what all the related numbers seems to suggest too. His strengths seem to be first contact and using his stocky frame to stop the ball carriers momentum.

Relating that back to the topic, I think Williams will be fine on the same accord given his physical attributes and from what I've seen of him defensively.
Bit late here but I don't agree with much of this post at all really. I reckon Sezer is the halfback teams least want to run out hence makes less tackles than someone like Lachlan Lewis.
I'm pretty sure Lachlan Lewis has become one of the best defensive halves in the game.

I don't buy the theory about not sending work through a particular channel because the half stationed there is perceived to be strong at all, otherwise a guy like Jack Wighton would barely tackle all game. Sezer isn't a defender who will sting you or take a player ball and all under the ribs by himself; he's used mainly to go high on attackers and hold them up. He was at the bottom of the list (halfbacks) for one on one tackles made this season and mid rank for missed tackles. Regardless of how we rate him, he's still one of the weakest defenders in the team on a relative scale.

Looking at the numbers, there's no correlation between it either. If there was, the likes of Jimmy Maloney, Cogger, and Ash Taylor would be well on top of that list https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... By=tackles. FTR, Jack averaged more tackles per game than Sezer and there is no chance in hell the latter is better than the former, going by this theory.

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by -PJ- » October 15, 2019, 10:46 pm

Come on down GWilly..

Just don't ask for an upgrade too early.
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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by greeneyed » October 16, 2019, 11:18 pm

George Williams plans to make Canberra Raiders even better

Canberra Raiders recruit George Williams has a clear plan: to make the NRL grand finalist even better.

"Hopefully. That's the plan. I'm under no illusions, they're a great team and it's going to take some doing to break into that," Williams said. "But I'll be working as hard as I can and I'm just very excited at the opportunity in front of me."

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

George Williams' farewell tears to join a coach he's never met

Canberra's prize playmaking recruit George Williams left his hometown club in tears, for a coach he's still yet to meet in the flesh.

"When I told the boys I was leaving I had a bit of a cry in front of the team, it was strange for me as I've not done anything like that before," Williams said.

Read more: https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/10/16/wil ... never-met/

Why newest Pom is confident he won’t fail in rich Raiders move

Green Machine recruit George Williams says he is relishing the chance to team up with Clive Churchill medallist Jack Wighton.

“He’s some athlete, isn’t he?” Williams said. “He’s a great player, this year he’s been fantastic with a great running game and he can defend. That really impressed me, when they run at him he bangs them.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 405afce39c
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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by TongueFTW » October 18, 2019, 6:57 am

At this stage, I would be going down the old “Craig Bellamy” school of thought for Williams - focus on defence and kicking (short/mid range). We made a Grand Final this year without dominant playmaking in the halves - not saying he can’t (and shouldn’t) develop this to improve us, but to start with, he should ease himself in, keep it simple, focus on making his tackles and ending the sets well.

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by Hazza » October 30, 2019, 8:15 am

Anyone else not slightly concerned Bennett selected Jackson Hastings hb in front of George? Or does George have an injury I'm not aware of?

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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by -PJ- » October 30, 2019, 8:42 am

GWilly will get his chance.
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Re: Canberra Raiders sign Wigan Warriors half George Williams on three year deal

Post by zim » October 30, 2019, 8:49 am

Hazza wrote:
October 30, 2019, 8:15 am
Anyone else not slightly concerned Bennett selected Jackson Hastings hb in front of George? Or does George have an injury I'm not aware of?
We've seen Bennett make the wrong choice plenty of times.

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