Our attack
Moderator: GH Moderators
Our attack
Was not going to start a new thread but thought it might warrant one.
Given Stuart's recent comments in the media about focussing on defence, I am actually worried about our attack. Several reasons for this:
* One of our biggest attacking weapons (Rapana) is injured for at least the first third of the season.
* Our primary source of try assists/line break assists (Wighton) is moving positions.
* We are likely going to start with a relative unknown at Fullback.
* Croker is returning from a serious knee injury.
* We have lost Austin who, for all of his defensive frailties, definitely made a difference to our attack.
* Our attacking coach is Brett White and Crawley has moved on (I realise Crawley did not look after attack last season, but I imagine he had some input).
* We are probably going to play half a trial game with our new spine before the season starts.
All of this does not bode particularly well and makes me think a likely scenario is a slightly improved (but still leaky) defence, combined with a stuttering attack, at least for the first few weeks.
Given Stuart's recent comments in the media about focussing on defence, I am actually worried about our attack. Several reasons for this:
* One of our biggest attacking weapons (Rapana) is injured for at least the first third of the season.
* Our primary source of try assists/line break assists (Wighton) is moving positions.
* We are likely going to start with a relative unknown at Fullback.
* Croker is returning from a serious knee injury.
* We have lost Austin who, for all of his defensive frailties, definitely made a difference to our attack.
* Our attacking coach is Brett White and Crawley has moved on (I realise Crawley did not look after attack last season, but I imagine he had some input).
* We are probably going to play half a trial game with our new spine before the season starts.
All of this does not bode particularly well and makes me think a likely scenario is a slightly improved (but still leaky) defence, combined with a stuttering attack, at least for the first few weeks.
Re: Our attack
Our primary source of try assists is hodgson and we will have him from the start of this season.
We still have multiple attacking options in the pack with papa, whitehead, tapine and now bateman as well as bj on the right, cotric on the left.
I think we have enough points in them alone to allow the rest to warm into their roles
We still have multiple attacking options in the pack with papa, whitehead, tapine and now bateman as well as bj on the right, cotric on the left.
I think we have enough points in them alone to allow the rest to warm into their roles
Dont delete this GE
Re: Our attack
The interesting part for me will be the loss of Crawley. I think he actually did more than we know. Our attack would often look slightly tweaked after halftime and although I have zero evidence to back it up I think it was slight variations that he had addressed at halftime.
They say that it takes 12 months after a coach leaves for a team to fully drift away or lose his style so whether that drift happens this year or next is anybody's guess.
Ultimately it will be up to the refereeing, which is concern. This new 'referee discretion' garbage could really go either way for us. Much of our momentum and spark is initiated by a quick dart out of dummy half, followed by a quick play the ball and/or second phase. Will we be allowed quick play the balls by the referees? Will we be able to earn quick play the balls with a more mobile pack who could quite easily get dominated in the ruck?
Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
They say that it takes 12 months after a coach leaves for a team to fully drift away or lose his style so whether that drift happens this year or next is anybody's guess.
Ultimately it will be up to the refereeing, which is concern. This new 'referee discretion' garbage could really go either way for us. Much of our momentum and spark is initiated by a quick dart out of dummy half, followed by a quick play the ball and/or second phase. Will we be allowed quick play the balls by the referees? Will we be able to earn quick play the balls with a more mobile pack who could quite easily get dominated in the ruck?
Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
Shoving it in your face since 2017
Re: Our attack
We needed to change our attack up anyway. The team can beat up on ordinary defenses but when you get a top defensive side and the ref puts the whistle away it wasn't good enough.
- -PJ-
- Mal Meninga
- Posts: 24834
- Joined: May 8, 2010, 1:58 pm
- Favourite Player: Josh Papalii
- Location: 416.9 km from GIO Stadium
Re: Our attack
I think we'll be ok..
We desperately need our defence to improve..defence wins premierships.
Our defence gets us 10th, it's nowhere near good enough.
The points will come. There's too much talent and skill around for it not to.
We desperately need our defence to improve..defence wins premierships.
Our defence gets us 10th, it's nowhere near good enough.
The points will come. There's too much talent and skill around for it not to.
3rd Battalion Royal Australian Regiment..Old Faithful
#emptythetank
#emptythetank
- LimeGreenMachine
- Brett Mullins
- Posts: 1551
- Joined: January 5, 2019, 10:09 am
- Favourite Player: Ethan Strange
Re: Our attack
If we defend better we will be in a better position to attack , we wont be nearly always coming out of our own 20m.
We have some really good ball playing backrowers.
We have some really good ball playing backrowers.
Re: Our attack
Brett White will lead us to the promised land.edwahu wrote:We needed to change our attack up anyway. The team can beat up on ordinary defenses but when you get a top defensive side and the ref puts the whistle away it wasn't good enough.
Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
Shoving it in your face since 2017
Re: Our attack
I think this is a pretty good post Tonguey, some or all of the points you raise could definitely happen.
I also agree with the notion above that some changes are needed on the attacking side of the ball. We’ve been riding an adlib, unstructured wave since that 2016 season - it can’t last. Certainly, when you look at the sides consistently around the top of the table, they look nothing like us. They have excellent attacking plans and structures to base their games on, and then have a couple of quality players providing occasional individual brilliance to put them over the top.
I have no faith in the coach to implement anything up to a top 4 standard - either side of the ball. I think 2019 will be a long season for us - hopefully it’s the beginning of the end of the “cult of Stuart”
I also agree with the notion above that some changes are needed on the attacking side of the ball. We’ve been riding an adlib, unstructured wave since that 2016 season - it can’t last. Certainly, when you look at the sides consistently around the top of the table, they look nothing like us. They have excellent attacking plans and structures to base their games on, and then have a couple of quality players providing occasional individual brilliance to put them over the top.
I have no faith in the coach to implement anything up to a top 4 standard - either side of the ball. I think 2019 will be a long season for us - hopefully it’s the beginning of the end of the “cult of Stuart”
Re: Our attack
rapana and leilua's adlib on tackle 5 kills our halves ability to put the opposition under pressure
Sent from my SM-G950F using The Greenhouse mobile app powered by Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G950F using The Greenhouse mobile app powered by Tapatalk
Edrick The Entertainer
Re: Our attack
The thing is last year i noticed that we were going 80 -100m most sets but so we're our opposition, our defence needs to improve so they only go 50m a set. And if we grind out then we would get the biscuits
Re: Our attack
Without at least 1 big forward, I think are going to get dominated in the ruck. Look at the Eels last year - their pack was too small and weren't able to gain enough metres per set. This will be us this year unless we start chucking it out to our awesome wingers (oh wait, Rapana's injured).
Re: Our attack
We have a pretty solid pack.. Sutton isn't small then u have papali, sia and Lui up front that's not a small front row rotation, the game is going away from the big boys thats why im not so concerned about losing both boyd and paulo they were very lazy at times, Sutton is an English front rower he won't be a push over and we got him fairly cheap, our forwards stocks isnt that bad its our halves and fullback spot that im more concerned aboutSeeBee101 wrote: ↑February 14, 2019, 12:32 pmWithout at least 1 big forward, I think are going to get dominated in the ruck. Look at the Eels last year - their pack was too small and weren't able to gain enough metres per set. This will be us this year unless we start chucking it out to our awesome wingers (oh wait, Rapana's injured).
- LimeGreenMachine
- Brett Mullins
- Posts: 1551
- Joined: January 5, 2019, 10:09 am
- Favourite Player: Ethan Strange
Re: Our attack
Re-watched a few games from last year , players like Lui may not be as big but they seem to land on their front and enable a quick play the ball , this then allows you to make the metres as the defences arent set. If our forwards dont get dominated on the ground we should be able to take advantage
Re: Our attack
I feel we might be short 1 huge high impact human.
We obviously can’t afford a Fifita or even a Boyd or Paulo. A Fonua Blake for Manly type of player would give us some size.
But the mobility of our pack will be a welcome change.
We obviously can’t afford a Fifita or even a Boyd or Paulo. A Fonua Blake for Manly type of player would give us some size.
But the mobility of our pack will be a welcome change.
- Matt
- Don Furner
- Posts: 38872
- Joined: May 18, 2010, 4:17 pm
- Favourite Player: Time for the new breed Savage, Mooney, Timoko
- Location: Canberra
Re: Our attack
Ill give you the tip. AFB is worth more that Jr and Boyd, both in ability and cost.
- Roger Kenworthy
- Laurie Daley
- Posts: 11580
- Joined: January 7, 2005, 10:18 pm
- Favourite Player: Ruben Wiki, J-Lo, Jordan Rapana
Re: Our attack
Agree we need to attack in a way that challenges good defenses rather than the feast or famine model depending on opposition we have been for largely the past 20 years.
If we do improve our defense the entire flow of our games will change. It's much easier to score 30 points if you are letting in 28 a game than it is if you knock that down to 20.
Re: Our attack
We have a pretty solid pack.. Sutton isn't small then u have papali, sia and Lui up front that's not a small front row rotation, the game is going away from the big boys thats why im not so concerned about losing both boyd and paulo they were very lazy at times, Sutton is an English front rower he won't be a push over and we got him fairly cheap, our forwards stocks isnt that bad its our halves and fullback spot that im more concerned aboutSeeBee101 wrote: ↑February 14, 2019, 12:32 pmWithout at least 1 big forward, I think are going to get dominated in the ruck. Look at the Eels last year - their pack was too small and weren't able to gain enough metres per set. This will be us this year unless we start chucking it out to our awesome wingers (oh wait, Rapana's injured).
Re: Our attack
Papa or Tapine are needed to add some size to that front row.
Lui, Sia and Sutton ARE all small forwards. It’s not 105kg for a big man these days it’s 120kg+.
I think Fifita, the Burgii , Lolo etc are capable of bullying a pack like ours. It’d be a huge effort from Papa or Tapine to shut them down.
Lui, Sia and Sutton ARE all small forwards. It’s not 105kg for a big man these days it’s 120kg+.
I think Fifita, the Burgii , Lolo etc are capable of bullying a pack like ours. It’d be a huge effort from Papa or Tapine to shut them down.
Re: Our attack
I think another factor you haven't considered is our lack of size in the middle. I have a theory that the presence of our big boppers and hodgos willingness to throw them flat balls on the try line meant that other teams would tighten their defence in the red zone leaving gaps out wide. Without size in the middle, I have a feeling that other teams will spread their defence meaning fewer opportunities for our backs
-
- John Ferguson
- Posts: 2243
- Joined: June 13, 2007, 4:52 pm
- Favourite Player: Kenny Nagas
Re: Our attack
I think our attack will be as good, if not better.
Hodgson will be fit from Round One.
Leilua is reportedly as fit as ever.
There is (/should be) clarity over the role of the halves for the first time.
We have a prop who can break the line and also score.
Our defence should be better thereby reducing the number of times we have to ruck it off our try line.
Sure, there are a couple of uncertainties in there but no more than the original pessimistic list.
Also, Rapa won’t be out for a third of the season.
Hodgson will be fit from Round One.
Leilua is reportedly as fit as ever.
There is (/should be) clarity over the role of the halves for the first time.
We have a prop who can break the line and also score.
Our defence should be better thereby reducing the number of times we have to ruck it off our try line.
Sure, there are a couple of uncertainties in there but no more than the original pessimistic list.
Also, Rapa won’t be out for a third of the season.
Re: Our attack
I'm not concerned about the attack. Sure i've barely seen a set move in 5 years but one thing we have an abundance of is decent ball carriers and they all roll their sleeves up. Guys like Cotric are always looking for work and breaking tackles and even Oldfield if he plays right wing is really handy at getting us rolling forward.
We can get forward and I trust Hodgson to get it done although he has a tendency to overplay his hand. Let the forwards do their job in that respect.
I think Wighton will be more handy at 5/8 than people think. He's quick enough when he runs to get into a 1 on 1 scenario and if he is running at opposition halves, he'd just about be the strongest 6 or 7 in the comp. If he can work out how to do this effectively and select when to use his passing game that he has developed at fullback, he's going to be an absolute headache for opposition defences. I think about a guy like Jack Bird who has that explosive running game when he's played 6 and been a nightmare for teams to stop. Jack has that power to him but can also throw a ball these days when he needs to, at a much higher standard than Bird did at Cronulla when he was red hot. Love him or hate him he is right up there for me in importance on whether the season is a success or failure.
We can get forward and I trust Hodgson to get it done although he has a tendency to overplay his hand. Let the forwards do their job in that respect.
I think Wighton will be more handy at 5/8 than people think. He's quick enough when he runs to get into a 1 on 1 scenario and if he is running at opposition halves, he'd just about be the strongest 6 or 7 in the comp. If he can work out how to do this effectively and select when to use his passing game that he has developed at fullback, he's going to be an absolute headache for opposition defences. I think about a guy like Jack Bird who has that explosive running game when he's played 6 and been a nightmare for teams to stop. Jack has that power to him but can also throw a ball these days when he needs to, at a much higher standard than Bird did at Cronulla when he was red hot. Love him or hate him he is right up there for me in importance on whether the season is a success or failure.
We continue to **** about with blokes that are part of some fraternity. It's infuriating.
Re: Our attack
Jack looks 5kg heavier at least- I’m tipping him to have a big year breaking tackles and wrecking defences.
Re: Our attack
I’m certain he will have a big year too Ricky didn’t want him to play All Stars obviously so he didn’t risk injury as he knows a fair bit is riding on his shoulders this year.BadnMean wrote:Jack looks 5kg heavier at least- I’m tipping him to have a big year breaking tackles and wrecking defences.
Interestingly enough I was looking at one of the odds boards for Dally M (and I’m not suggesting he would win it) but they have Jared Hayne at shorter odds than Jack to win it and he hasn’t got a contract as far as I know.
I just think he will go better than many outsiders (and many insiders) anticipate.
Sent from my iPhone using The Greenhouse mobile app powered by Tapatalk
Re: Our attack
If he can stay out of trouble, he's every chance of doing the job. Hell, just to stop leaking tries through the halves will get us halfway there.
Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
Re: Our attack
If nothing else, he's going to put a little bit of sting back in to our edges. Halves and back rowers aren't going to have it all their way... we'll see if his decision making is consistently good enough to hold up long term, but even if it's not, he's going to lay some dudes out with enough regularity that backrowers will at least be a little hesitant to run that hard inside line.
Re: Our attack
Definitely think this warrants some further discussion.
We are yet to score a try this year with a slick, rehearsed backline move - instead relying on kicks, offloads and individuals.
We are yet to score a try this year with a slick, rehearsed backline move - instead relying on kicks, offloads and individuals.
Re: Our attack
We played in a monsoon and backed up 5 days later against the team who’s been consistently the best year in and year out for about 10 years
There will be teething problems but I wouldn’t be concerned right now. We’ll see how we’re tracking by rd 7-8ish
There will be teething problems but I wouldn’t be concerned right now. We’ll see how we’re tracking by rd 7-8ish
- Roger Kenworthy
- Laurie Daley
- Posts: 11580
- Joined: January 7, 2005, 10:18 pm
- Favourite Player: Ruben Wiki, J-Lo, Jordan Rapana
Re: Our attack
Same old story really. We look like a headless chicken when confronted with a composed defensive line.
-
- David Furner
- Posts: 3764
- Joined: January 6, 2005, 9:42 pm
- Favourite Player: Hudson Young
- Location: Here
Re: Our attack
My biggest concern is Sezer and Hodgson just don’t seem to understand the value of repeat sets. Every kick in their 20 was in the air to try and score a try. Because you’re going to beat Vunivalu and Addo-Carr in the air.
There was never an attempt to just roll it into the in goal and get six more and build pressure. It’s always all or nothing.
There was never an attempt to just roll it into the in goal and get six more and build pressure. It’s always all or nothing.
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is just the train that's about to hit you.
Re: Our attack
Or target the shorter fullback with players like Jack leaping over the top of him. As a variation, I don't mind the crash ball with Papa as the receiver and the hit and spin option. He either gets through for the try or the opposition gets the ball 1 or 2 meters from their line. Even if no try is scored it's not the worst outcome for the opposition to get the ball close to their own goal line. The attempted grubber kicks from our players seem to 'hit legs' quite often. The good tactical kickers have time for a quick look at the opposition before directing their kick. Our blokes seem to go through the motions without regard for where the defensive players are.
Re: Our attack
The issue is the good teams will have structure to their set of six in the opposition 20 in that they will have a crack at them on the second and third tackle, and aim for a quick play the ball up the middle on the fourth to give the kicker's time and space. We will often go for a big shift on the fourth and end up on the side of the field with a slow play the ball, or a crash ball with the forward held up and and a slow play the ball.
Re: Our attack
It doesn't really matter where we are on the field we don't have structure aside from 4 hitups and a kick. It sticks out more when we're behind on the scoreboard. Individual brilliance is our go to play and/or building momentum from quick dummy half scoots. We're not going to win a comp this way.TongueFTW wrote:The issue is the good teams will have structure to their set of six in the opposition 20 in that they will have a crack at them on the second and third tackle, and aim for a quick play the ball up the middle on the fourth to give the kicker's time and space. We will often go for a big shift on the fourth and end up on the side of the field with a slow play the ball, or a crash ball with the forward held up and and a slow play the ball.
Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
Shoving it in your face since 2017
- Canberra Milk
- Laurie Daley
- Posts: 15273
- Joined: January 6, 2005, 8:44 pm
- Favourite Player: Leipana
Re: Our attack
Only two rounds in but it does seem like more of the same as what we've always seen under Ricky: a complete reliance on individual brilliance rather than any intelligent breaking through of defences
Thankfully we do have those attacking players, but good teams can nullify them. Leipana were quiet as a mouse (partly because we didn't give them quality ball, which is that intelligence thing again...)
Thankfully we do have those attacking players, but good teams can nullify them. Leipana were quiet as a mouse (partly because we didn't give them quality ball, which is that intelligence thing again...)