Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by Sid » February 13, 2019, 10:29 am

The Nickman wrote:
February 13, 2019, 10:25 am
I don't see the point of the Viking Clap when we're playing like busted **** in front of 4,000 fans. Just seems ridiculous to me.
The team should be made to run out to Yakety Sax the home game after each loss
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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by BadnMean » February 13, 2019, 10:44 am

I’m rusted on since the late 80s and I love the clap.

It’s the only decent RL chant going(an admittedly thin field).

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by The Nickman » February 13, 2019, 10:55 am

BadnMean wrote:
February 13, 2019, 10:44 am
I’m rusted on since the late 80s and I love the clap.

It’s the only decent RL chant going(an admittedly thin field).
I was rusted on from the late 80s too until about halfway through last year. Now I'm rusted through.
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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by gergreg » February 13, 2019, 10:58 am

I love the Viking clap, but it should be used to 'rub other teams and fans faces in it' - when we win.

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by LimeGreenMachine » February 13, 2019, 10:59 am

Love the Viking Clap and hope to get to a home game to do it instead of in my lounge room.

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by BadnMean » February 13, 2019, 11:37 am

gergreg wrote:
February 13, 2019, 10:58 am
I love the Viking clap, but it should be used to 'rub other teams and fans faces in it' - when we win.

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I think that’s a bit hollow. I love the team running out to it in hope and that tingle of energy and potential.

Apart from that- just spontaneous or after a huge win.

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by Ruben Daley » February 13, 2019, 12:03 pm

I love the clap. It’s not a celebration activity so it wouldn’t work post-win.

I also think reserving it for wins is the type of pessimism we don’t need. I like to clap each time as though we’re red-hot chances to destroy the opposition even when recent form suggests otherwise.

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by Sid » February 13, 2019, 12:08 pm

The ominous horn blowing by a past player is the best part
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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by -TW- » February 13, 2019, 12:10 pm

greeneyed wrote:The Viking Clap is the best "game day" experience in rugby league. It's the best thing that's happened for the Raiders' game day since "The bad and mean Green Machine" in 1987. I don't get the complaints - dare I say whinging and whining - about it.

My whinging and whining about Highway to Hell... well that was fully justified! And based on a scientific poll of Raiders fans on The Greenhouse Facebook page!
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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by nacho » February 13, 2019, 12:19 pm

I'd rather we only use it when we're in the top 8.

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by nemesis » February 13, 2019, 3:22 pm

luke wrote:
February 13, 2019, 8:27 am
greeneyed wrote:
February 13, 2019, 8:01 am
The Viking Clap is the best "game day" experience in rugby league. It's the best thing that's happened for the Raiders' game day since "The bad and mean Green Machine" in 1987. I don't get the complaints - dare I say whinging and whining - about it.

100%, look at the membership rise since they introduced it also, it's enjoyable for all and clearly a pull card for fans.

who cares if we lose doing it, you can't exactly predict the future, i say we do it again if we win before the players go off
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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by Woodgers » February 13, 2019, 3:33 pm

Ruben Daley wrote:
February 13, 2019, 12:03 pm
I love the clap. It’s not a celebration activity so it wouldn’t work post-win.

I also think reserving it for wins is the type of pessimism we don’t need. I like to clap each time as though we’re red-hot chances to destroy the opposition even when recent form suggests otherwise.
Opposite mate. Whilst Iceland football fans adopted it from Motherwell football fans when they crossed paths in the Europa League, the Iceland fans made it what it is using it as a celebration with the players after they win.
We continue to **** about with blokes that are part of some fraternity. It's infuriating.

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by gangrenous » February 13, 2019, 5:28 pm

Maybe in origin and in Iceland but I don’t think that flies in Australia Woodgers. I don’t think the Australian psyche thinks much of a big song and dance from the winners. You just look like dicks I reckon.

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by Green eyed Mick » February 13, 2019, 5:55 pm

The Nickman wrote:
February 13, 2019, 10:25 am
I don't see the point of the Viking Clap when we're playing like busted **** in front of 4,000 fans. Just seems ridiculous to me.
If we ever get down to 4000 fans it will die it's own death no matter how hard the club tries.

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by PhilY » February 13, 2019, 5:58 pm

Definitely not Australian or for that matter NZ psyche. Move the Haka to post game wins????

The Clap has given the Raiders huge media attention. One day the Club will get back to the winners circle and when that happens, with a full stadium, it’ll seriously pump our players and get into the heads of the opposition.
Sometimes games just need a 1% edge. Post game, with the opposition already in the changing room the clap won’t give anyone anything.

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by FROG » February 13, 2019, 6:05 pm

I love the clap. And my kids love it as well. Like GE says it adds to the experience. I hope we stick with it but like everyone else I hope the players respond with something worth celebrating

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by Green eyed Mick » February 13, 2019, 6:18 pm

Croker needs to bang the drum.

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by Botman » February 13, 2019, 6:43 pm

It's rather remarkable how many blokes here love the clap
I've never experienced it myself, but friends of mine who have say it can really quite painful and irritating.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by lars » February 13, 2019, 6:56 pm

I find it’s painful and irritating when the drummer gets the tempo wrong, which happens disappointingly frequently. It messes up the rythym of the crowd. When the timing is good and there’s a decent size crowd, it’s great.

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by magoo » February 13, 2019, 7:03 pm

I was in the away fans section of suncorp when broncos beat us by a point. Some raiders fans had done the clap before and during the game. When we lost the broncos fans took great delight in mocking the clap and raiders fans.
I've never experienced the clap at a home game but it looks like good fun. Therefore I hope we continue at home games but give it a miss at away games

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by Woodgers » February 13, 2019, 7:16 pm

PhilY wrote:
February 13, 2019, 5:58 pm
Definitely not Australian or for that matter NZ psyche. Move the Haka to post game wins????

The Clap has given the Raiders huge media attention. One day the Club will get back to the winners circle and when that happens, with a full stadium, it’ll seriously pump our players and get into the heads of the opposition.
Sometimes games just need a 1% edge. Post game, with the opposition already in the changing room the clap won’t give anyone anything.
I reckon you're completely wrong and i've brought this up a few times.

NRL players generally play in ZERO atmosphere. Nothing. So what do we do? We come up with something that adds atmosphere. BUT....the crowd does it when the opposition players are out there in the middle of the noise and our guys get none of it and are walking down a tunnel. How can people not understand that by doing it the way we do it it actually works in the opposition's favour and gets them pumped for kick off because they're the ones actually subject to the noise and the build up on the ground and ours aren't? It's madness. Having been involved in supporters groups including running one for the Raiders, and having been interested in crowd participation my entire life I strongly believe we actually could not be doing it in a more backward manner for our team/club to get anything out of it.

My thoughts on the Viking Clap is the Raiders have found something that can work but they want to treat it like an awesome song they've heard and wear the thing out within the first month. Use it appropriately before the novelty is completely gone. The crowd is most pumped after a win and that is why I think that would be the best time, when energy is high and the players are out there to enjoy it together and it doubles as a thank you to the fans for turning up. Before kick off is quite 'meh' because in my experience in Canberra most the crowd turns up right on or around kick off and if people aren't finding their seats they're holding a pie or a drink or something and you see heaps of people around not getting involved because of that or simply that they're not in game mode yet.

The Haka is nothing like this, it's a war dance for players to strike intimidation to the opposition. That comparison is completely apples and oranges.
We continue to **** about with blokes that are part of some fraternity. It's infuriating.

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by Ruben Daley » February 13, 2019, 7:55 pm

Woodgers wrote:
February 13, 2019, 3:33 pm
Ruben Daley wrote:
February 13, 2019, 12:03 pm
I love the clap. It’s not a celebration activity so it wouldn’t work post-win.

I also think reserving it for wins is the type of pessimism we don’t need. I like to clap each time as though we’re red-hot chances to destroy the opposition even when recent form suggests otherwise.
Opposite mate. Whilst Iceland football fans adopted it from Motherwell football fans when they crossed paths in the Europa League, the Iceland fans made it what it is using it as a celebration with the players after they win.
I thought about the Iceland football team when I wrote the above. The first time I saw their clap was when they’d overachieved in the European Cup or whatever and had 100,000 fans doing it. And that would be great for us down at the Weston Raiders Club post-grand final win too.

But the very nature of the clap is about speeding up and getting louder and finishing with a huge cheer. It’s tailormade for a pump-up.

Not sure I agree with your other comment about NRL players coming out to zero atmosphere either. Most grounds have fireworks and music to welcome their teams. Origin has the most.

If your point about he clap having the reverse effect and pumping up the opposition is true then NSW should be undefeated at Suncorp.

It’s also about what it does for the crowd. Lots of kids and families come just for the clap. I sat next to a family of Cowboys supporters last season who chose Canberra for their one away game because their kids wanted to be part of the clap. That’s awesome.

I think this conversation is less about the clap and more about the fact our team has just played poorly for two seasons.

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by gangrenous » February 13, 2019, 8:29 pm

Woodgers, most of your gripes are easily solved.

Like wait until the Raiders are on the field and then do it

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by greeneyed » February 13, 2019, 8:33 pm

Australian crowds basically instantly leave at the end of a match. There is no way the Viking Clap would work at the end of a game. Sure, it could work with a small group of fans with a win... but with nowhere near the impact.

Australian crowds... completely different culture to English soccer or rugby league crowds. And Woodgers, I reckon you have worked harder than most to try and replicate it here, but it never really works here.

We have something that works, doing it before a game, when the crowd is at its largest and the crowd has a sense of anticipation and excitement. I think we have it exactly right, right now. In 2017, it was way wrong... the Viking Clap preceded the team running on... and they ran on to a song from hell. Now they run on as the Viking Clap reaches a crescendo and to the best club song in the world. It is right on the mark.
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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by greeneyed » February 13, 2019, 8:34 pm

Ruben Daley wrote:
February 13, 2019, 7:55 pm
I think this conversation is less about the clap and more about the fact our team has just played poorly for two seasons.
I think I agree.
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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by EJ » February 13, 2019, 8:37 pm


Woodgers wrote:So what do we do? We come up with something that adds atmosphere. BUT....the crowd does it when the opposition players are out there in the middle of the noise and our guys get none of it and are walking down a tunnel. How can people not understand that by doing it the way we do it it actually works in the opposition's favour and gets them pumped for kick off because they're the ones actually subject to the noise and the build up on the ground and ours aren't? It's madness. Having been involved in supporters groups including running one for the Raiders, and having been interested in crowd participation my entire life I strongly believe we actually could not be doing it in a more backward manner for our team/club to get anything out of it.
How do you not understand that our players get visibly excited while in the tunnel because they know it's for them. Sure, the opposition get a rev up from it too. Great, it's all part of the spectacle. Just like the Haka.

If we waited till our boys were on the field, I think it would be a little awkward. Running out at the crescendo is perfect timing.

If we only did it to celebrate a win, half the crowd are halfway to their cars.

EDIT: Well GE basically beat my whole post to it. Thanks, GE.

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by greeneyed » February 13, 2019, 8:51 pm

EJ wrote:
February 13, 2019, 8:37 pm
Woodgers wrote:So what do we do? We come up with something that adds atmosphere. BUT....the crowd does it when the opposition players are out there in the middle of the noise and our guys get none of it and are walking down a tunnel. How can people not understand that by doing it the way we do it it actually works in the opposition's favour and gets them pumped for kick off because they're the ones actually subject to the noise and the build up on the ground and ours aren't? It's madness. Having been involved in supporters groups including running one for the Raiders, and having been interested in crowd participation my entire life I strongly believe we actually could not be doing it in a more backward manner for our team/club to get anything out of it.
How do you not understand that our players get visibly excited while in the tunnel because they know it's for them. Sure, the opposition get a rev up from it too. Great, it's all part of the spectacle. Just like the Haka.

If we waited till our boys were on the field, I think it would be a little awkward. Running out at the crescendo is perfect timing.

If we only did it to celebrate a win, half the crowd are halfway to their cars.

EDIT: Well GE basically beat my whole post to it. Thanks, GE.
I think you said it very well indeed!
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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by Woodgers » February 13, 2019, 9:01 pm

greeneyed wrote:
February 13, 2019, 8:33 pm
Australian crowds basically instantly leave at the end of a match. There is no way the Viking Clap would work at the end of a game. Sure, it could work with a small group of fans with a win... but with nowhere near the impact.

Australian crowds... completely different culture to English soccer or rugby league crowds. And Woodgers, I reckon you have worked harder than most to try and replicate it here, but it never really works here.

We have something that works, doing it before a game, when the crowd is at its largest and the crowd has a sense of anticipation and excitement. I think we have it exactly right, right now. In 2017, it was way wrong... the Viking Clap preceded the team running on... and they ran on to a song from hell. Now they run on as the Viking Clap reaches a crescendo and to the best club song in the world. It is right on the mark.
Bingo GE with the bolded.

I've almost studied this stuff over the years and unless you've really been a part of a really big atmosphere in those places to entirely get it, you just will never really get it. It won't work here, or at least not in this sport. There just isn't that culture that a lot of overseas fans have in football (soccer) especially have where your pride as a fan of that club is being better than the opposition fans in the ground wherever it is. So you turn up to outdo them and support your team, not sit there and watch the fireworks when the team runs out and yell 'YEAH' when you score a try.

If the crowd knew that the Viking Clap with the players was the celebration after the game they'd probably stick around, i'd back that in more than people turning up on time. I've given my preference on what I think would be better but it might not be right.

I bloody love this sport but the fans in general are absolutely pathetic for crowd participation. I've accepted it now after many years. If the Raiders win a premiership in Stadium Australia i'll stand there and cry because of all we've been through together, but a whole stadium of Raiders fans or NSW Blues fans wouldn't make 1/50th of the atmosphere I had in that ground when Aloisi nailed the penalty in 2005 to take us to the World Cup. It's a TV sport with plastic fans. Aussie Rules fans at the ground are way more passionate as well. I might not like it but you have to call it as you see it. I can't for the life of me believe that anyone thinks that going to RL games is any kind of atmosphere and that is most of the reason (along with TV being the best seat in the house) that we see empty stadiums. There is no reason to go and the best atmospheres are all in the small suburban grounds because of the capacities and proximity to the field to maybe get engaged.
We continue to **** about with blokes that are part of some fraternity. It's infuriating.

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by greeneyed » February 13, 2019, 9:19 pm

Woodgers... I understand you love soccer and enjoyed that moment at Stadium Australia... but to be honest... that was completely irrelevant to me, and I suspect most Australians wouldn't rank it anywhere near their rugby league or AFL team winning a premiership. Wouldn't be in the same post code, not in the same State. I suspect that the people in Australia who genuinely cared about that moment in soccer (as opposed to bandwagoners) were at the ground for that moment.

Having been at the 1989 Grand Final... in my view, the atmosphere at that moment was nothing I've ever experienced before or since.

I honestly am upset at the suggestion that rugby league fans are "plastic" and it is only a TV sport. Rugby league fans love their code... but don't express it like soccer fans... and soccer crowd culture has a lot of downsides. Actually I'm glad when I see the hooligan soccer crowd behaviour here in Australia and overseas. I'm not trying to point score here, or be rude (you're my favourite poster!). I just genuinely don't want that soccer culture in our sport.
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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by -TW- » February 13, 2019, 9:52 pm

Rugby league fans can't thumb their nose at soccer fans, it's basically the same minus the flares

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by Lui_Bon » February 13, 2019, 10:35 pm

Just to avoid the usual contest, I'd like to see the club hand out short green bits of cloth, so we can do a "terrible towel" waving thing.

Kevin Sheedy nearly got Essendon fans doing it but i think that it died in the ass because AFL supporter scarves are too long, and you'd end up flogging your neighbour in the eye. If next year's supporter pack contained a foot long terrible green towel, the whole waving thing would work. And we should get on it before some other club does.

That's all. If you don't know what I'm talking about, look up the Pittsburgh Steelers.
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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by greeneyed » February 13, 2019, 10:37 pm

Happy not to copy the Towel. We have the horn, the clap...
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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by -PJ- » February 14, 2019, 6:05 am

Michael Ennis eh ???
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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by simo » February 14, 2019, 6:19 am

greeneyed wrote:
February 13, 2019, 10:37 pm
Happy not to copy the Towel. We have the horn, the clap...
Back on topic, thanks
Dont delete this GE

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Re: Michael Ennis joins Canberra Raiders as coaching consultant

Post by Keghead » February 14, 2019, 7:30 am

simo wrote:
February 14, 2019, 6:19 am
greeneyed wrote:
February 13, 2019, 10:37 pm
Happy not to copy the Towel. We have the horn, the clap...
Back on topic, thanks
:clap:

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