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Well at least we're mixing it up and sharing the burden of who should be dropped or released from the club this year. Sezer, Tapine, Wighton, BJ.... I'm guessing next week there'll be calls to deport Elliott Whitehead and publicly lynch Rapana

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JT was a bit slower and less effective but at no stage was his:-
Hands a joke
Kicking a joke
Defence a joke

All in one game

Absolutely no where near.

Whilst I freely acknowledge he has talent and size, I’m not even hard on him for the bull crap penalty for his great tackle.
The simple fact is his constant mistakes whether in attack or defence was what was keeping a very very poor knights team in the game. Had he played like that against the storm they put 40 or 50 on us.

Also williams imo had one garbage kick and then an otherwise solid game, maybe a 6 out of ten, and he will do that week in week out, I prefer that to jakes good games with absolute garbage mixed in.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sporti ... jn4zpbfikk

He wasn't good in his last season. He is a legend and if we're being honest Wighton isn't fit to ties his laces, but there is a paragraph in the article that sounds exactly like your initial comment, 'trying really hard but just failing' etc.

I hear you about trying hard and failing but from what I saw, it was trying hard and being ineffective compared to his normal really high standards, ie sezer / Williams.

Wighton was trying really hard and at times put on good hits but really for the most part he wasn’t just ineffective but dead set making big mistakes which were helping the knights immensely, ie really really bad.

To put it in perspective, from a stats perspective you got about 40 sets
You want to complete at least 30 at 75 percent that leaves about 10 mistakes max. If your 5/8 commits half or more of them and is involved in two or three others and is the cause for the oppositions only 2 tries, he has been really really bad.

Literally Austin was a joke for us last season but I don’t remember a performance that bad, I remember less effort and all sorts of **** but nothing that bad.

The only shining light for him is we won the game of football.

Ginga wrote:Well at least we're mixing it up and sharing the burden of who should be dropped or released from the club this year. Sezer, Tapine, Wighton, BJ.... I'm guessing next week there'll be calls to deport Elliott Whitehead and publicly lynch Rapana

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Ah ah you listen to the whack jobs and pay attention if you want to learn something


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Ginga wrote: ↑March 30, 2019, 10:14 am Well at least we're mixing it up and sharing the burden of who should be dropped or released from the club this year. Sezer, Tapine, Wighton, BJ.... I'm guessing next week there'll be calls to deport Elliott Whitehead and publicly lynch Rapana

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There is a very strong case for Williams retaining his spot. BJ, Tapine and Wighton won't be and shouldn't be going anywhere. At least not at this point.

I’ve defended Wighton a thousand times for many different things. But he made more simple mistakes last night than some players make in a season. He kept the Knights in the game.

Really wasn’t even close to an OK performance. Wighton needs to take up brain training and complex skills under fatigue.

BJ wrote:I’ve defended Wighton a thousand times for many different things. But he made more simple mistakes last night than some players make in a season. He kept the Knights in the game.

Really wasn’t even close to an OK performance. Wighton needs to take up brain training and complex skills under fatigue.

So was he better or worse than Ponga?

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gergreg wrote:

BJ wrote:I’ve defended Wighton a thousand times for many different things. But he made more simple mistakes last night than some players make in a season. He kept the Knights in the game.

Really wasn’t even close to an OK performance. Wighton needs to take up brain training and complex skills under fatigue.

So was he better or worse than Ponga?

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Much worse than Ponga I’m afraid. Key person in both tries we let in and made simple mistakes not under pressure.

We would have won by more if Wighton had played that same game for Knights.

BJ wrote:

gergreg wrote:

BJ wrote:I’ve defended Wighton a thousand times for many different things. But he made more simple mistakes last night than some players make in a season. He kept the Knights in the game.

Really wasn’t even close to an OK performance. Wighton needs to take up brain training and complex skills under fatigue.

So was he better or worse than Ponga?

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Much worse than Ponga I’m afraid. Key person in both tries we let in and made simple mistakes not under pressure.

We would have won by more if Wighton had played that same game for Knights.

Yeah I agree, he was far worst then Ponga. Consistently made errors through out the game.

I’m happy to perceive with him though, the good teams though would have put us away last night by 12 points if those errors happen again


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Jack made a lot of errors last night but I like what he brings to the table..especially defensively. He just hits like a mack truck

Can we all chill out on the public lynching of Jack Wighton..

Geez I'm glad we're not 0-3, we'd be really stickin the knife in eh boys !!!

-PJ- wrote:Can we all chill out on the public lynching of Jack Wighton..

Geez I'm glad we're not 0-3, we'd be really stickin the knife in eh boys !!!

Yep 100%


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Glad we won peej, I'm feeling good today

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T_R wrote:Nickman, while you've been away it seems that keghead has hacked your account.

Wighton was very good in patches last night, but his overall game was pretty awful.

He'll get better, but against a better team than the Knights, those errors cost us the game and we're all here opening a vein.

You are


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dubby wrote: ↑March 30, 2019, 5:31 pm Glad we won peej, I'm feeling good today

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Same here dub, I love winning !!

There's plenty of mates up here who've been copping Stick today..

I'm happy to respectfully disagree with the harsh comments on Jack last night. I'd just reiterate that while people judge the errors you also need to view it in the full context of all the stuff he is getting right that are all effort such as the kick chase, bringing the line up with him in defence, rucking the ball out like an extra fullback and pressuring the kicker when he can.

I think he'll be a good 5/8. He has the power to be a good pivot in attack and defence. I do agree with Lastraider though, Ricky needs to pull him back a bit and stop him trying to be a halfback, that's not his job. He's a running 5/8 and it is on Ricky to get a 7 in there that can play like he used to in order to allow Jack to play like Daley did. Jack has those running attributes but he's not an overly smart player so we need to find a way to simplify it for him.

I believe Jack will be the best defensive half in the comp by the middle of the year. I think at the moment his tackling technique is excellent but he's just adjusting the the quick shifts in the line and working with new bodies and combinations. I was surprised that Ramien got the better of him but once I saw it a few times I realised that I had to credit the attacking player there rather than search for faults with the defender. It happens. Leilua and our outside backs regularly do that to other defenders and we applaud the running game without giving thought to what opposition fans think of the defending. Sometimes the ball runner is too strong.

Well said Woodgers.

Jack will only get better and he did do some good things last night. I'd have his involvement at 5/8 over Ponga's

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I watched Milford on Thursday night. We dodged a bullet there at this point in time.

Woodgers wrote:I watched Milford on Thursday night. We dodged a bullet there at this point in time.

I’m not sure we did. The broncos have somehow completely ruined Anthony Milford, he’s not the player he was with us


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The Rickman wrote: ↑March 30, 2019, 6:18 pm

Woodgers wrote:I watched Milford on Thursday night. We dodged a bullet there at this point in time.

I’m not sure we did. The broncos have somehow completely ruined Anthony Milford, he’s not the player he was with us


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Agreed
They’ve coached the brilliance out of him
This is not the Milford we had. Let’s not forget, before anyone knew who Ponga was, Milford was THAT guy

PigRickman wrote:

The Rickman wrote: ↑March 30, 2019, 6:18 pm

Woodgers wrote:I watched Milford on Thursday night. We dodged a bullet there at this point in time.

I’m not sure we did. The broncos have somehow completely ruined Anthony Milford, he’s not the player he was with us


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Agreed
They’ve coached the brilliance out of him
This is not the Milford we had. Let’s not forget, before anyone knew who Ponga was, Milford was THAT guy

Both moved into the halves too early in their careers. Ponga can still be saved.

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Yeah that’s probably fair, it was telling that in a tight game that was winnable, they moved him to Fullback to try and make something happens

Think it’s a matter of time before he’s back there

Woodgers wrote: ↑March 30, 2019, 5:57 pm I'm happy to respectfully disagree with the harsh comments on Jack last night. I'd just reiterate that while people judge the errors you also need to view it in the full context of all the stuff he is getting right that are all effort such as the kick chase, bringing the line up with him in defence, rucking the ball out like an extra fullback and pressuring the kicker when he can.

I think he'll be a good 5/8. He has the power to be a good pivot in attack and defence. I do agree with Lastraider though, Ricky needs to pull him back a bit and stop him trying to be a halfback, that's not his job. He's a running 5/8 and it is on Ricky to get a 7 in there that can play like he used to in order to allow Jack to play like Daley did. Jack has those running attributes but he's not an overly smart player so we need to find a way to simplify it for him.

I believe Jack will be the best defensive half in the comp by the middle of the year. I think at the moment his tackling technique is excellent but he's just adjusting the the quick shifts in the line and working with new bodies and combinations. I was surprised that Ramien got the better of him but once I saw it a few times I realised that I had to credit the attacking player there rather than search for faults with the defender. It happens. Leilua and our outside backs regularly do that to other defenders and we applaud the running game without giving thought to what opposition fans think of the defending. Sometimes the ball runner is too strong.

Good post Woodgers. I don't think Jack had a good game last night, the five errors and at least one try cause were pretty significant. He did do a lot of other good things... which is why I gave him a pass mark in my player ratings. I think the coach is right, Jack is on a good path, kept his head up after the errors, and I think he'll make a very good, possibly elite, Daley style five eighth.

Edit @ Pig...I don't think they have the balance right. Similar issues to what we've had at our club in the past two years with neither half knowing which is the dominant half. Of course we clearly had other issues with ours but I just don't think Pearce and Ponga complement each other that well. I think they're a better side with Pearce controlling the game and steering them around the park and Ponga doing his adlib thing.


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Agree on Milford, he's a different player. I think Bennett has a really rigid coaching style where he wants robots and not footballers playing what is in front of them. He coached a premiership at the Dragons where he managed to get more out of a player like Jamie Soward who was virtually an on field kicking genius but couldn't do much more. Milford has far more talent than Soward does in his little toe.

The interesting thing with the Knights is I don't understand why Brown wants to shift Ponga and put Watson at fullback when it seems obvious to me that he could get more from Watson at 5/8 than fullback, and more from Ponga at fullback than 6. It's a strange coaching play to me. And don't even get me started on why McGregor has convinced himself to play Widdop at fullback and Norman in the halves. Seems absolutely absurd. Widdop at 6 should be the first selection on that team sheet and Norman is an erratic player but he strikes me as a player that you'd get the most out of not in the line but just floating around playing the game in front of him.

This will probably be unpopular given what's written so far in the thread, but tbh I don't care. To me it's only a matter of time until this move fails again. Giving him more time won't change that.

Simply put, Jack doesn't have the intelligence or the patience to play in the halves, and I don't believe he ever will. His ball playing is skilled enough to play fullback only, and his kicking will always be extremely hit and miss. It's very wishful to think that a player at 26 and in his 8th season of first grade can drastically alter his skill set. Further, given I don't think he can ever be a true half, he will always need a top player beside him at halfback. Given our run of players in the 7 ever since our coach retired from playing, we're asking a bit for that to happen.

I'm a big fan of his as a player, and have been for a long time, but I'm starting to think that he's never going to get to play his natural position here and thus realise his full talent. As a result, we're paying top dollar for a player that we're not getting the best out of, occupying a key position that he cannot deliver the level of performance required in, which would be incommensurate to his pay packet. I have no doubt that he has the ability to play for state and even country. He just won't get there playing at 6 or 1.

If he's going to keep being shoehorned into different positions it'd be best for both parties if he went somewhere that allowed him to fulfil his potential. Unfortunately, I don't think that'll happen under Sticky since he's arguably his favourite.

Woodgers wrote: ↑March 30, 2019, 7:25 pm Agree on Milford, he's a different player. I think Bennett has a really rigid coaching style where he wants robots and not footballers playing what is in front of them. He coached a premiership at the Dragons where he managed to get more out of a player like Jamie Soward who was virtually an on field kicking genius but couldn't do much more. Milford has far more talent than Soward does in his little toe.

The interesting thing with the Knights is I don't understand why Brown wants to shift Ponga and put Watson at fullback when it seems obvious to me that he could get more from Watson at 5/8 than fullback, and more from Ponga at fullback than 6. It's a strange coaching play to me. And don't even get me started on why McGregor has convinced himself to play Widdop at fullback and Norman in the halves. Seems absolutely absurd. Widdop at 6 should be the first selection on that team sheet and Norman is an erratic player but he strikes me as a player that you'd get the most out of not in the line but just floating around playing the game in front of him.

100% agree
The Widdop/Norman thing is insane. So is the Ponga/Watson thing

afgtnk wrote: ↑March 30, 2019, 7:25 pm This will probably be unpopular given what's written so far in the thread, but tbh I don't care. To me it's only a matter of time until this move fails again. Giving him more time won't change that.

Simply put, Jack doesn't have the intelligence or the patience to play in the halves, and I don't believe he ever will. His ball playing is skilled enough to play fullback only, and his kicking will always be extremely hit and miss. It's very wishful to think that a player at 26 and in his 8th season of first grade can drastically alter his skill set. Further, given I don't think he can ever be a true half, he will always need a top player beside him at halfback. Given our run of players in the 7 ever since our coach retired from playing, we're asking a bit for that to happen.

I'm a big fan of his as a player, and have been for a long time, but I'm starting to think that he's never going to get to play his natural position here and thus realise his full talent. As a result, we're paying top dollar for a player that we're not getting the best out of, occupying a key position that he cannot deliver the level of performance required in, which would be incommensurate to his pay packet. I have no doubt that he has the ability to play for state and even country. He just won't get there playing at 6 or 1.

If he's going to keep being shoehorned into different positions it'd be best for both parties if he went somewhere that allowed him to fulfil his potential. Unfortunately, I don't think that'll happen under Sticky since he's arguably his favourite.

I think we’re a little early for this take but I don’t think it’s insane. And the next 10-12 weeks will be very telling.

Some of the trouble with the move is it doesn’t feel like we have a lot of time to see how it goes and the pairing of Wighton and George Williams seems (from what I’ve read here, again I don’t watch ESL so just basing things off those reports) problematic at best

I would say though afgtnk that the role the Raiders want from a 6 is different to other clubs simply because our 9 dictates the terms. Our 9 is our organiser and direction. So outside of that we need a 7 to compliment and support that. We don't need a 3rd bloke trying to run the show which is why Austin was a bad fit for this club as he wanted that role. In our structure the 6 should pretty much be a 3rd powerful centre trying to attack the edges with running and trying to bring the outside backs into play when he identifies it, and he has some of those passing skills already from the fullback role so he's ahead of the game in that respect. Jack's attributes are suited to this role because as you and many others suggest, he is probably a more natural centre than anything else. By putting him in 6 we want to try get him to a point where he performs like a good centre that isn't fixed to a certain side of the field.

My thinking is the best fullbacks in the modern game float around sensing where they can add a number to create play and support play. It's one of, if not the only position where the role is based on instincts and natural football ability rather than coaching structure. So in that sense that is why Jack made a good fist of it (in attack) at fullback over time. He's not a smart player as you say, but he is a natural footy player that has good instincts for playing the numbers in front of him. Therefore circling back to my original point, the 6 role in a team where we're not looking for a structured half should suit him as him and CNK can float and play footy without the structures inhibiting natural skills. That's the best use of him as a player. If we didn't have Hodgson and had Havili as our primary 9, i'd have a different opinion on playing Jack in 6 because we'd need more structure from the 2nd half. But currently we don't require that.

PigRickman wrote:Yeah that’s probably fair, it was telling that in a tight game that was winnable, they moved him to Fullback to try and make something happens

Think it’s a matter of time before he’s back there

Agreed, and I hope it’s soon

I personally want him playing fullback for qld this year and he won’t be picked there if he’s not playing there regularly at club level

Not at his age


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Ordinary performance, that can’t be denied. Irrespective of which position he plays Wighton makes far too many fundamental errors for a guy who has played as much first grade as he has.

What I love about Jack - again irrespective of the number on his back - is that he always keeps going, and never comes off the ground without making some kind of contribution. In the context of a pretty dreadful performance, his charge down before half time was an absolutely enormous play.

Aghtfhd’s comments aren’t without reason, however. There are some serious limitations in his game, and if we’re expecting Wighton to direct the team around the park or be a primary kicking option we’re in trouble. I thought we looked a lot better in the second half when Williams took on a lot more of these responsibilities.

This won’t be his last poor game, but after round 3 I’d say the Wighton experiment gets a pass mark to date.

greeneyed wrote: ↑March 30, 2019, 7:24 pm

Woodgers wrote: ↑March 30, 2019, 5:57 pm I'm happy to respectfully disagree with the harsh comments on Jack last night. I'd just reiterate that while people judge the errors you also need to view it in the full context of all the stuff he is getting right that are all effort such as the kick chase, bringing the line up with him in defence, rucking the ball out like an extra fullback and pressuring the kicker when he can.

I think he'll be a good 5/8. He has the power to be a good pivot in attack and defence. I do agree with Lastraider though, Ricky needs to pull him back a bit and stop him trying to be a halfback, that's not his job. He's a running 5/8 and it is on Ricky to get a 7 in there that can play like he used to in order to allow Jack to play like Daley did. Jack has those running attributes but he's not an overly smart player so we need to find a way to simplify it for him.

I believe Jack will be the best defensive half in the comp by the middle of the year. I think at the moment his tackling technique is excellent but he's just adjusting the the quick shifts in the line and working with new bodies and combinations. I was surprised that Ramien got the better of him but once I saw it a few times I realised that I had to credit the attacking player there rather than search for faults with the defender. It happens. Leilua and our outside backs regularly do that to other defenders and we applaud the running game without giving thought to what opposition fans think of the defending. Sometimes the ball runner is too strong.

Good post Woodgers. I don't think Jack had a good game last night, the five errors and at least one try cause were pretty significant. He did do a lot of other good things... which is why I gave him a pass mark in my player ratings. I think the coach is right, Jack is on a good path, kept his head up after the errors, and I think he'll make a very good, possibly elite, Daley style five eighth.

Lozza Wighton huh? Ridiculous comparison even saying Daley style. Wighton has about 20% of the attacking skills Daley had, and is also an inferior team defender.

afgtnk wrote: ↑March 30, 2019, 7:25 pm This will probably be unpopular given what's written so far in the thread, but tbh I don't care. To me it's only a matter of time until this move fails again. Giving him more time won't change that.

Simply put, Jack doesn't have the intelligence or the patience to play in the halves, and I don't believe he ever will. His ball playing is skilled enough to play fullback only, and his kicking will always be extremely hit and miss. It's very wishful to think that a player at 26 and in his 8th season of first grade can drastically alter his skill set. Further, given I don't think he can ever be a true half, he will always need a top player beside him at halfback. Given our run of players in the 7 ever since our coach retired from playing, we're asking a bit for that to happen.

I'm a big fan of his as a player, and have been for a long time, but I'm starting to think that he's never going to get to play his natural position here and thus realise his full talent. As a result, we're paying top dollar for a player that we're not getting the best out of, occupying a key position that he cannot deliver the level of performance required in, which would be incommensurate to his pay packet. I have no doubt that he has the ability to play for state and even country. He just won't get there playing at 6 or 1.

If he's going to keep being shoehorned into different positions it'd be best for both parties if he went somewhere that allowed him to fulfil his potential. Unfortunately, I don't think that'll happen under Sticky since he's arguably his favourite.

To be honest at this point I agree with you.

I think this position is more popular then the alternate.

Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑March 31, 2019, 1:41 pm

greeneyed wrote: ↑March 30, 2019, 7:24 pm

Woodgers wrote: ↑March 30, 2019, 5:57 pm I'm happy to respectfully disagree with the harsh comments on Jack last night. I'd just reiterate that while people judge the errors you also need to view it in the full context of all the stuff he is getting right that are all effort such as the kick chase, bringing the line up with him in defence, rucking the ball out like an extra fullback and pressuring the kicker when he can.

I think he'll be a good 5/8. He has the power to be a good pivot in attack and defence. I do agree with Lastraider though, Ricky needs to pull him back a bit and stop him trying to be a halfback, that's not his job. He's a running 5/8 and it is on Ricky to get a 7 in there that can play like he used to in order to allow Jack to play like Daley did. Jack has those running attributes but he's not an overly smart player so we need to find a way to simplify it for him.

I believe Jack will be the best defensive half in the comp by the middle of the year. I think at the moment his tackling technique is excellent but he's just adjusting the the quick shifts in the line and working with new bodies and combinations. I was surprised that Ramien got the better of him but once I saw it a few times I realised that I had to credit the attacking player there rather than search for faults with the defender. It happens. Leilua and our outside backs regularly do that to other defenders and we applaud the running game without giving thought to what opposition fans think of the defending. Sometimes the ball runner is too strong.

Good post Woodgers. I don't think Jack had a good game last night, the five errors and at least one try cause were pretty significant. He did do a lot of other good things... which is why I gave him a pass mark in my player ratings. I think the coach is right, Jack is on a good path, kept his head up after the errors, and I think he'll make a very good, possibly elite, Daley style five eighth.

Lozza Wighton huh? Ridiculous comparison even saying Daley style. Wighton has about 20% of the attacking skills Daley had, and is also an inferior team defender.

It wasn't a comparison. It was saying he could play the same style of five eighth that Daley did, that is a running five eighth.