Through green eyes 2019

All the news on the Canberra Raiders NRL team, all in one place

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greeneyed
Don Furner
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by greeneyed » August 12, 2019, 9:46 am

Through green eyes: As I saw it

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"If we were playing a grand final tomorrow, I'd be confident. If we were playing in the grand final tomorrow, against whoever is perceived as being the best team, I reckon we could beat them. It didn't happen tonight but Melbourne are on top of the competition and we've got them next week."

Canberra Raiders coach Ricky Stuart


Round 21 2019. Sydney Roosters 22 - Canberra Raiders 18. It was a battle for second in front of almost 20,000 people at Canberra Stadium - and the Raiders came off second best, just. The Roosters scored four tries to three, two of them from kicks and the other two set up by a player in extraordinary form, James Tedesco. Canberra's first two tries came from offloads, and the third from a great Hodgson kick in behind the Roosters' defensive line. That final try, to Elliott Whitehead, brought the Raiders withing striking distance - but too often, the Raiders looked panicked in the final stages, and the good attacking opportunities broke down in the end.



It felt disappointing, even though Raiders fans can console themselves with the fact that they pushed the Roosters right until the death - and were always in the contest. Ricky Stuart kept any disappointment well contained, and gave his team an upbeat message about his belief in their prospects in the post match press conference. It was an interesting contest between the two coaches - and some of it was revealed in their public comments.

Roosters' mentor Trent Robinson said this, the day before the game about the Raiders: "They've been playing some good footy but we sort of know what they do – they're quite conservative. We know how we want to defend that and how we want to go after them there. Then we also know our style of play and what we want to stick to."

He was almost daring the Raiders to stray from their game plan of win the middle and kick to the corners - and the Raiders were probably too often guilty of that. The Raiders too often played laterally, trying to find a way around the Roosters' defence, but couldn't really do it. The Raiders' kicks far too often found Tedesco.

Robinson's press conference after the game also gave us some coded insights into his team's tactics for the match.

"It was a bit of a stop-start game, I think that's the way they like to play that. It wasn't a rhythm sort of a game and I guess I was really pleased about [it]. If you want to go toe to toe, we'll play that longer style game, and kick returns and all of that. And if you want to play stop-start, we'll get down and dirty and play that as well. I think there was a good combination of those two today, which made it that style of a game."

The Roosters' tactics were to slow the Raiders' in the ruck, and they were successful. Their tactics were to stand offside, particularly in the red zone. The referees did little to police it, but that's something the Raiders can't control. The kick in behind the offside Roosters' line from Hodgson for the Whitehead try is one way to overcome those sorts of tactics.

After the game, Trent Robinson vented about one of the Raiders quite legal tactics - the one on one steal.

"What is it, has that added to the spectacle of our game?," Robinson said. "It's extra weight the refs are constantly looking at the ball and who's stripping. So, it ends up being a strip, slow play-the-ball, people in the ruck, honestly has that added value to the game?"

This is something that the Raiders have exploited better than any other team this year. As revealed in the NRL Fans' Poll, the rugby league public like the rule. I can see why Trent Robinson doesn't like it. It changes momentum, it adds to unpredictability. And coaches like Robinson don't like unpredictability. But the fans quite rightly do. It certainly adds to the spectacle.

Ricky Stuart was asked about the one on one steal, post match. He used the opportunity to point to another tactic from the Roosters - which was to repeatedly slow the momentum when the Raiders had the ball in hand - by calling for injury stoppages. Somehow, the injuries only became fully apparent when possession had changed hands.

This is what Stuart said: “There are a number of rules in the game at the moment that is putting far too much pressure on the referees, and that is one of them because, a lot of the time, they have to guess.

"There are so many more rules in the game," he continued. "We’re creating and putting too much pressure on the blokes in the middle. I feel sorry for them. We need to make it a little bit easier for them and not make it harder. We want to fasten the game up and get more football. The amount of stoppages in 80 minutes of football today is far greater than what it has been over the last couple of years."

As I walked out of the ground, I was annoyed by the Roosters' tactics and the refereeing, I admit. The refereeing gifted momentum to one side, then another. As one wise person said after the game, the referees intervened too much... and too little.

On this cold Canberra morning, in the light of a new day, I have to give credit to the Roosters' performance. They have some great players, some cool headed players with big game experience. They have a coach who drills them hard and looks for every possible advantage. Some of it is deliberate cheating, but a lot of what they do is very professional. The Raiders are going to have to be better - perhaps just a bit better - if they're to beat outfits like the Roosters.



Stats that mattered?

The Raiders ended the match with a 58 per cent share of possession and had the ball in hand for almost nine minutes more than the Roosters. Canberra had the better of possession and territory in both halves - but the territorial advantage in the first half was more pronounced (almost 65 per cent). The completion rates weren't great from either team, but the Raiders had a slight advantage (73-72 per cent completion rate).

With all that possession, the Raiders made more runs (195-159), running metres gained (1687-1577), post contact metres (500-410) and kick return metres (254-112) than the Roosters. Canberra produced 46 tackle breaks (Roosters 30), 20 dummies (Roosters eight) and 18 offloads (Roosters three). The Roosters came out in front in kick return metres (237-150) and line breaks (three to the Raiders' two).

The number of kicks were close to level (Raiders 19, Roosters 18), with the Raiders gaining slightly more kicking metres (479-447) than the Roosters. Both teams produced one forced line drop out. The Roosters bombed more (eight to three), while the Raiders grubbered more (seven to one). The Roosters defused 100 per cent of the Raiders' kicks, while the Raiders had a kick defusal rate of just 60 per cent. That difference proved costly.

The Roosters had to make more tackles (358-312) - and the Roosters missed more tackles (46-30) and made more ineffective tackles (30-11). Canberra had an effective tackle rate of over 88 per cent, compared with 83 per cent for the Roosters.

That set of statistics for the Raiders would see most teams end up winning. But the Roosters took their opportunities and won the small moments. The Raiders didn't. Ultimately, four tries to three was the only stat that mattered.

Memorable moments?

It was a great contest, one which had my heart often beating hard and fast in my throat. It's been a long time since a game has affected me like that. There was drama in the match no doubt. Perhaps I'm feeling deflated... but I'm struggling to find memorable moments this morning. Amongst the Raiders' tries, the first was the best, with John Bateman offloading in superb style to Jordan Rapana. In defence, the one moment that sticks in the mind came from Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad. With 30 minutes remaining, Angus Crichton made a huge break, before CNK cut him down. Not only that, Nicoll-Klokstad followed up by gathering up a loose Roosters' pass on the next play - extinguishing the danger. Sadly for Jarrod Croker, it wasn't to be a 250th game to remember, missing the victory and having to leave the field for an HIA with a few minutes left.

Best performers?

Josh Papalii. 17 runs for 173 metres, 43 kick return metres, 46 post contact metres, two tackle breaks, three offloads, 32 tackles, 100 per cent tackle efficiency.

John Bateman. 17 runs for 113 metres, 33 post contact metres, one line break assist, one try assist, two tackle breaks, one one-on-one steal, four offloads, 35 tackles, 87.5 per cent tackle efficiency.

Josh Hodgson. Nine runs for 34 metres, one line break assists, two try assists, one one-on-one steal, three offloads, 11 dummies (although that sometimes involved over-playing), 40 tackles, 85.1 per cent tackle efficiency, three kicks for 72 metres.

Nick Cotric produced eight tackles breaks, and Joe Tapine seven.

Top tacklers: Josh Hodgson 40, John Bateman 35, Josh Papalii 32.
Most metres gained: Jack Wighton 177, Josh Papalii 173, Sia Soliola 147.

My player ratings:

Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad 7
Bailey Simonsson 6
Jarrod Croker 7
Nick Cotric 7
Jordan Rapana 7
Jack Wighton 7
Aidan Sezer 5
Josh Papalii 8
Josh Hodgson 7
Sia Soliola 7
John Bateman 8
Elliott Whitehead 7
Joe Tapine 7

Siliva Havili 2*
Dunamis Lui 7
Corey Horsburgh 5
Ryan Sutton 6

*Limited minutes.

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LastRaider
Brett Mullins
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by LastRaider » August 12, 2019, 9:55 am

I thought Papilii was enormous and glad he got the top score GE

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greeneyed
Don Furner
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by greeneyed » August 15, 2019, 2:59 pm

Through green eyes: Stealing the show

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The Canberra Raiders' expertise at the one on one steal has been in the spotlight this week, after Sydney Roosters coach Trent Robinson vented about the tactic after his team's win over the Green Machine in Canberra.

"What is it, has that added to the spectacle of our game?," Robinson said. "It's extra weight the refs are constantly looking at the ball and who's stripping. So, it ends up being a strip, slow play-the-ball, people in the ruck, honestly has that added value to the game?"

The hubbub that has ensued needs to be put in a bit of context. The game of rugby league was once full of opportunities for the two teams to contest for the ball.

Opposition players were free to strike for the ball in the ruck. Hookers like John Lang and Ben Elias were experts at it.

The scrum was a genuine contest for possession. The ball had to be feed into the middle of the scrum and the hookers struck at the ball. Winning the ball "against the feed" and the "loose head" was a common occurrence.

And players were free to steal the ball from the opposition at any time. Brisbane's Alfie Langer was a master of the play.

Gradually, these contests were eliminated from the game. We were told it would speed up play, it would be cleaner, faster. The coaches were always the driving force for the rule changes. But they also had another aim. Coaches love to be in control. They love to plan. They love running their plays - and without the threat of an Alfie Langer interrupting their plans.

So the league made striking at the ball illegal. Scrums effectively became uncontested - no striking... feel free to feed it into the second row. And in 1991, stealing the ball was made illegal. Langer had become so good at it, some referred to it as the Alfie Langer rule. By 2001, the NRL decided that change had gone a bit far. So one-on-one steals were permitted - provided that two defenders were never involved in the tackle.

At the beginning of 2018, a further change was made to the "stripping" rule. It allowed for a one-on-one steal, regardless of whether there had earlier been two or more defenders in the tackle.

That was almost two years ago. It has taken that long for clubs to take full advantage of the new rule. The Raiders clearly have been the most skilled at doing so... while some clubs have not really taken advantage of the rule at all. Josh Hodgson has 11, just by himself!

Total one on one steals in season 2019

23 Raiders
11 Storm
9 Rabbitohs
8 Warriors
6 Bulldogs
5 Knights
5 Dragons
4 Eels
4 Sharks
3 Titans
3 Sea Eagles
2 Panthers
2 Cowboys
2 Roosters
2 Broncos
1 Tigers

It is a little unusual for the Raiders to be ahead of the pack in exploiting the rules - but they certainly are in this case. But remember, they're doing nothing illegal. They're not even "bending" the rules.

But now some powerful clubs are pressing for another change.

Some Raiders players have cheekily suggested that those who "don't agree with it just don't know how to do it".

It is hard not to reach that conclusion, given the Roosters have produced just two steals in 2019.

But is there actually a case for the rule to be changed?

It is a little difficult to find a clear statement from the NRL as to why the one-on-one steal rule was changed at the beginning of 2018. The reporting at the time suggests a couple of reasons.

First, it was suggested that there was not enough responsibility placed on the ball carrier to protect possession - that is, greater contestability for the ball was actually wanted.

Secondly, it was suggested it was very difficult for referees to work out at times if there had been more than one tackler involved - whether players had actually been involved in the tackle or whether contact from defenders was incidental.

Personally, I think more contestability for possession is desirable. The "new" stripping rule adds unpredictability to a sport that has become dominated by coaches treating players as chess pieces. A sport dominated by repeated robotic block plays and trading sets. The new rule has allowed for changes in momentum - and that doesn't detract from the spectacle, it adds to it. It is not surprising certain coaches - the ones who see footy as a game of chess - are now the most vocal in seeking another rule change.

The opportunity to change momentum is also a great antidote to the influence of the referees - at a time when the whistle blowers often undeservedly swing the momentum of games with strings of penalties.

Some say the current one-on-one steal rule is too difficult for the officials to adjudicate. But is it any harder than the old rule to adjudicate? It may well be simpler and easier than the last version of the rule.

All the referee now has to judge is whether the ball is stolen while no other defender is in contact with the ball carrier. Remember... people used to say the old rule was grey... and that was a reason for change. The current rule is certainly no more grey than the last version of the rule. And the referees have generally been getting the calls right.

We've now had four different rules governing stripping the ball in the history of rugby league.

The NRL is incredibly reactive. For far too long, rugby league has had a history of listening to coaches with a vested interest. It is telling that 60 per cent of fans actually like the current rule, according to the NRL's own Fan Poll for 2019. It's time for everyone to take a good, deep breath and think about what sort of game we want.

***

The Raiders' opponents this week, the Melbourne Storm, are pretty darn good at one-on-one steals themselves. But they've come under fire this week for - yet again - the illegal "wrestle".

In the Storm's clash with the Rabbitohs last week, Melbourne front rower Nelson Asofa-Solomona was penalised for a "crusher" tackle on South Sydney forward Dean Britt. Strangely, the match review committee deemed that a penalty on field was sufficient.

That left Rabbitohs boss Shane Richardson fuming.

"The Storm are simply the best at slowing down, lying on and wrestling in tackles," Richardson said this week.

"We're not the only club who thinks it's gone too far. Something needs to be done. Who invented the crusher tackle, who invented the chicken wing, who invented the rolling pin? We were furious afterwards. It's not in the spirit of the game."

It'll be interesting to see how the officials respond in the clash with the Raiders this week.

***

It is going to be a very tough game for the Raiders this Saturday night in Melbourne.

The Storm will do what the Roosters did last week - stand offside, slow the ruck, and play stop-start so as to kill any momentum the Raiders might build. Canberra will need to come up with some tactics to combat that... but many teams have tried that and failed against the Storm.

The Raiders will have to match the Storm in the middle and kick to the corners - but they'll have to add some tricks, like offloads and kicking in behind the Storm defensive line. The Raiders tried some of that against the Roosters to good effect. They also tried to be more expansive against the Roosters, but that didn't quite work. They couldn't get around the Roosters' line.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but it is hard to see anything other than a Storm win this weekend. Here's hoping!

The Canberra Raiders Jersey Flegg team also travels to Melbourne - for a clash with the Storm's Under 20s outfit, the Victoria Thunderbolts. That match will be the warm-up for the NRL clash, so if you're going along, make sure you get there early and support the team. The Thunderbolts are running 12th, while the Raiders will be looking to shore up their position in the top eight... and make a challenge for the top four. Kick off is at 3pm.

Canberra's NSW Cup affiliate, Mounties, meet the Newcastle Knights at Hunter Stadium on Saturday. That's a difficult match to get to, unless you're a Hunter Valley local - but don't forget it will be broadcast at lunch time on Fox League. Mounties broke a six game losing streak last week, so they'll be aiming to keep themselves on the winners list and assure themselves of a finals berth.

It is the final round of the regular season in the Canberra Raiders Cup this weekend. The match of the round is a battle for the minor premiership - between the Tuggeranong Bushrangers and the Queanbeyan Blues at Greenway on Saturday. It should be a great contest. If you can't head to a local ground, you can catch it via the Bar TV Sports live stream.



***

Every week I rate the Raiders players on a scale of 0-10... and here are the total points and average points per match after the clash with the Roosters. Let us know if you agree with the ratings... or not!

Total points

Josh Papalii 147
Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad 142
Elliott Whitehead 134
Jack Wighton 134
Sia Soliola 130
Jarrod Croker 129
John Bateman 127
Josh Hodgson 120
Dunamis Lui 118
Siliva Havili 112
Ryan Sutton 102
Nick Cotric 95
Corey Horsburgh 92
Jordan Rapana 91
Bailey Simonsson 88
Joe Tapine 76
Aidan Sezer 70
Sam Williams 59
Hudson Young 48
Michael Oldfield 48
Joey Leilua 47
Emre Guler 35
Sebastian Kris 15
Tom Starling 15
Jack Murchie 6
JJ Collins 4

Average points per match

John Bateman 7.5
Josh Papalii 7.4
Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad 7.1
Josh Hodgson 7.1
Joey Leilua 6.7
Elliott Whitehead 6.7
Jack Wighton 6.7
Sia Soliola 6.5
Jarrod Croker 6.5
Ryan Sutton 6.4
Aidan Sezer 6.4
Bailey Simonsson 6.3
Corey Horsburgh 6.1
Jordan Rapana 6.1
Jack Murchie 6.0
Michael Oldfield 6.0
Nick Cotric 5.9
Dunamis Lui 5.9
Sam Williams 5.9
Joe Tapine 5.8
Siliva Havili 5.6
Hudson Young 5.3
Emre Guler 5.0
Sebastian Kris 5.0
Tom Starling 5.0
JJ Collins 4.0

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greeneyed
Don Furner
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by greeneyed » August 18, 2019, 10:39 am

Through green eyes: As I saw it

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"There is no worries about belief. We know we are good enough. Sometimes it is just unfortunate scenarios and passages of play that make it more difficult for yourself. They showed everything out there that a lot of our non-believers think we haven't got.

"We are a very good attacking team and very instinctive. We are unpredictable and sometimes that has got us in trouble. We shoot ourselves in the foot through our unpredictability, because we push the pass too much. It has probably helped us this year because we have tried to find a little bit more composure with our play, more so than always trying to score. Outside our defence that is probably one of our biggest improvements."

"We didn't get many bounces of the ball at all tonight and I was happy with how they hung in there. Over the years they have got frustrated, they have got impatient and that has been my biggest bug bear in regard to calming their mentality.

Canberra Raiders coach Ricky Stuart


Round 22 2019. Canberra Raiders 22 - Melbourne Storm 18. It will go down as one of the most remarkable victories in Canberra Raiders' history. The Raiders played 20 minutes of the first half with 12 men, after Jack Wighton and Joe Tapine were both sent to the sin bin. The Storm scored twice when Wighton and Tapine were off the field, and led 18-0 after 30 minutes. The Storm had never lost after leading by 18 points. Their worst collapse ever was in Sydney in 2004, when they surrendered a 16 point lead against the Rabbitohs. Last night, the Raiders scored 22 unanswered points to produce an incredible comeback - in one of the most hostile environments in the NRL.



The Raiders' start was the worst possible. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad uncharacteristically lost the ball on the Raiders' first possession. Canberra then conceded four straight penalties, a sin binning, and a try in the first five minutes. Wighton's sin binning was the result of making an instinctive, reflex tackle, but he was obviously off side after the Storm had taken a quick tap. There was no doubt, he had to go for a spell.

Joe Tapine was sin binned 15 minutes into the game - for throwing a punch of sorts. The Storm's Nelson Asofa Solomona had been the instigator of the blow up in a scrum - which the Raiders were about to feed. But it was ill discipline from Tapine that the Raiders could not afford. Almost instantly the Raiders conceded another four pointer. Then in the 28th minute a long, misdirected pass from Josh Hodgson fell at the feet of Nick Cotric - and he was stripped of the ball by Suliasi Vunivalu, who scored under the posts. Everything possible had gone wrong.

But then the long process of the comeback began, first with a try to Jarrod Croker with seven minutes to the break. It finished with a barn-storming run from Josh Papalii to score under the posts with just four minutes remaining in the match. It was incredible. It was amazing. It was a victory over top four opposition that the Raiders have craved. Last week against the Roosters, they had come close, but no cigar. In Melbourne, it was Havanas all round. The victory has shown that Canberra is a genuine premiership contender. Importantly, the victory kept the Raiders in the race for a top two finish. And it has kept the chasing teams, the Sea Eagles, Eels and Rabbitohs at bay.

It sets up a mouth watering contest against the Sea Eagles in Canberra next Sunday.



Stats that mattered?

The two teams ended the game with a 50-50 share of possession - but it was certainly a game of two halves. The Storm dominated in the first half, while the Raiders had around 60 per cent of the ball and territory in the second. Both teams completed at just under 80 per cent (Raiders 79, Storm 78) and produced a similar error count (Storm 11, Raiders 10). Despite conceding four penalties in the first five minutes, it was the Storm that was less disciplined overall (Storm 10 penalties conceded, Raiders eight).

The Raiders finished the match having made more runs (182-154), running metres gained (1540-1352), post contact metres (470-439) and average metres per set (40-37) than the Storm. Kick return metres were almost level (Storm 113, Raiders 112). Canberra produced more line breaks (3-2), offloads (11-6) and dummies (15-6), while the Storm made more tackle breaks (22-19). The Storm came out in front in kick return metres (482-448), but took more kicks (20-17). The Storm produced one forced line drop out, the Raiders none.

The Storm made more tackles (328-292) and missed fewer tackles (19-22) than the Raiders, but produced a lot more ineffective tackles (20-8). As a result, the Raiders ended with the more effective tackle rate (90.7 per cent for the Raiders, 89.4 per cent for the Storm).

I wrote before the match that I didn't think the Raiders could "out-Storm" the Storm - and that I couldn't see the Raiders winning in Melbourne. After 30 minutes, that sadly seemed like it would be the case - but how wrong I was ultimately. The Raiders matched the Storm in the middle and, once they had a full complement of players, they broke down the Melbourne defences. They did it with offloads and by passing from one edge to another, stretching the Storm line. Going wide had not worked against the Roosters, but it certainly worked against the Storm. For good measure, they added in a Josh Hodgson kick in behind the off side Storm defenders for a try. And then there was great defence, that didn't concede a point for 50 minutes.

Memorable moments?

There were four tries, but none was more memorable than the winning try from Josh Papalii - steaming up the middle of the park off a Hodgson pass. Perhaps no player deserved a four pointer more. There might have been better execution in the Hodgson kick for Croker, for the try for Rapana in the corner. But nothing stirred the emotion more than that match winner.

There were two other moments that stick in the mind. The first was a moment in defence. It came early, a try saver from Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad with Wighton in the bin. CNK had given the Storm the opportunity in the red zone, having lost the ball the first time that the Raiders had touched it. Though Melbourne scored shortly afterwards, they had to kick to get through. It was a great effort from a determined and resilient player. The other moment that I loved was an intercept. With just under 20 minutes remaining, the Storm attacked in the red zone. One more try for Melbourne would have probably sealed the game. But then Jack Wighton came up with a brilliant intercept, one metre from the line. It saved a try and put the Green Machine back on attack.

Best performers?

Josh Papalii. One try, 11 runs for 101 metres, 33 post contact metres, one line break, five tackle breaks, one offload, 32 tackles, 100 per cent tackle efficiency.

John Bateman. 13 runs for 118 metres, 35 post contact metres, three tackle breaks, two offloads, 39 tackles, 88.6 per cent tackle efficiency.

Corey Horsburgh. 18 runs for 167 metres, 64 post contact metres, one offload, 21 tackles, 100 per cent tackle efficiency.

Top tacklers: John Bateman 39, Josh Hodgson 37, Josh Papalii 32, Elliott Whitehead 32.
Most metres gained: Jack Wighton 179, Corey Horsburgh 167, Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad 152.

My player ratings:

Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad 7
Nick Cotric 5
Jarrod Croker 7
Joey Leilua 6
Jordan Rapana 6
Jack Wighton 6
Aidan Sezer 6
Josh Papalii 8
Josh Hodgson 7
Sia Soliola 6
John Bateman 8
Elliott Whitehead 7
Joe Tapine 5

Bailey Simonsson 3*
Dunamis Lui 5
Corey Horsburgh 7
Ryan Sutton 6

*Limited minutes.

Do you agree or disagree with the ratings? Let us know!

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Begbie
Laurie Daley
Posts: 13056
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by Begbie » August 18, 2019, 11:43 am

Tapine too high, Wighton too low - other than that, spot on!

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-TW-
Mal Meninga
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by -TW- » August 18, 2019, 11:45 am

How does Tapine get a 5?!?!

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T_R
Don Furner
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by T_R » August 18, 2019, 11:57 am

Horsburgh was an 8 for mine

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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 26179
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by Botman » August 18, 2019, 12:25 pm

Tarps would get a 4 or lower from me.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

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gangrenous
Laurie Daley
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by gangrenous » August 18, 2019, 12:27 pm

Tapine getting a 5 is a shocker GE.

Imagine giving him the same score as Lui for that game?!

Funny old game. Beat the Storm but the average score should be lower than a lot of wins.

Billy Walker
David Furner
Posts: 3153
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by Billy Walker » August 18, 2019, 12:53 pm

I agree that Hors and Jack should be a tad higher and I’d drop Tarps down. BJ is an interesting one - he was error free but understandably wasn’t heavily involved. I agree with Cotric being 5 I thought he was disappointing. Others are all spot on!

Also agree with Gangers point about the imbalance between the ratings and the performance. You can make an argument that the first 40 minutes was close to the worse half of footy we turned out all season and I’d love to have seen your ratings at half time had you have done them. From there we pulled of an amazing victory against a side that just does not get overrun at home when 18 points up. There were no 9’s or 10’s - some of our best players made really poor errors at times. It was just a really gutsy team effort. If you took the average of all the scores you have given I’d imagine it would sit around 6.5 to 7 which is probably right, but as a team performance I’d give them an 8.5 to 9 for just hanging tough, grinding hard and finding a way. A really odd game but very very pleasing to see!

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by Billy Walker » August 18, 2019, 12:57 pm

Decided to stop being lazy and try maths - the average score is 5.8! I don’t think you’ve got it wrong but isn’t that interesting that we agree it was one of the best wins in years but individually there is massive room for improvement. It’s all coming up green!!!

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by Billy Walker » August 18, 2019, 1:05 pm

Curious GE, if you were looking at this one through purple eyes, where would you have them. Obviously the Storm won’t be happy with the performance but I wouldn’t say they had a stinker. I thought they played well against a better team. I don’t think we caught them on a bad day and got lucky, I think we set the tempo and outplayed a very good team. We made them look poor at times but I think that was more about us being good than them being bad. Is that a fair assessment?

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by BadnMean » August 18, 2019, 1:20 pm

I agree on Jack and Hors actually.

Hors had some huge numbers and stood up vs a v good pack. But it was a 7, I didn't notice him dominating out there, just getting stuck in and giving as good as he good. The next step up was Papa and Bateman, 8's who genuinely had game breaking impact and moments where they really got up over their opposition.

Jack had a very retro Jack game for his 150th. Some bonehead plays (kicking on the 3rd with no other players chasing when we are down to 12 men!? Straight to the FB. It only makes halfway sense if there is no FB up in the line. For a run first half that's an error), a silly sin binning... Then he does some solid work and a big play (the intercept too). But 6 is fair enough.

The others fair enough. Cotric is in a mini slum after missing all that footy and playing in different positions every week.I roared when BJ went through the line on his first touch, I knew he'd be ok after that.

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by Billy Walker » August 18, 2019, 1:28 pm

BadnMean wrote:
August 18, 2019, 1:20 pm
I agree on Jack and Hors actually.

Hors had some huge numbers and stood up vs a v good pack. But it was a 7, I didn't notice him dominating out there, just getting stuck in and giving as good as he good. The next step up was Papa and Bateman, 8's who genuinely had game breaking impact and moments where they really got up over their opposition.

Jack had a very retro Jack game for his 150th. Some bonehead plays (kicking on the 3rd with no other players chasing when we are down to 12 men!? Straight to the FB. It only makes halfway sense if there is no FB up in the line. For a run first half that's an error), a silly sin binning... Then he does some solid work and a big play (the intercept too). But 6 is fair enough.

The others fair enough. Cotric is in a mini slum after missing all that footy and playing in different positions every week.I roared when BJ went through the line on his first touch, I knew he'd be ok after that.
Fair points - I forgot Jack’s third tackle kick. I’m comfortable with GE’s rating of him as a 6.

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by greeneyed » August 18, 2019, 1:47 pm

I agree I could be one point too generous for Tapine, perhaps I didn't factor in enough for the ill discipline with the sin binning. But I don't think there's a lot in it. On Lui... Tapine's numbers were pretty much all ahead of Lui... so I'm pretty comfortable they're in the same territory, in terms of ratings.

There's no doubt the ratings are lower overall due to the first half... certainly a courageous and amazing win, but if the Raiders played for 80 minutes as they did for 50 minutes, it would have been a more complete and consistent performance. The plus side of that is that the Raiders just beat the ladder leaders on the Storm's home turf - after trailing 18-0 - yet there is still room for improvement.
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by gangrenous » August 18, 2019, 1:51 pm

Tapine’s punch ensures the Raiders lose that game 99 times out of 100.

To me it doesn’t matter what his other stats were. In terms of contributions to winning or losing the game Lui was streets ahead of him.

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by Billy Walker » August 18, 2019, 2:30 pm

greeneyed wrote:
August 18, 2019, 1:47 pm
I agree I could be one point too generous for Tapine, perhaps I didn't factor in enough for the ill discipline with the sin binning. But I don't think there's a lot in it. On Lui... Tapine's numbers were pretty much all ahead of Lui... so I'm pretty comfortable they're in the same territory, in terms of ratings.

There's no doubt the ratings are lower overall due to the first half... certainly a courageous and amazing win, but if the Raiders played for 80 minutes as they did for 50 minutes, it would have been a more complete and consistent performance. The plus side of that is that the Raiders just beat the ladder leaders on the Storm's home turf - after trailing 18-0 - yet there is still room for improvement.
I agree! We put in a 50 minute performance, average less than 6/10 individually and achieved a scary good result. Other clubs will be looking over their shoulders at us coming for them I think. The room for improvement isn’t 1% here and there, if we can click like we did against the Warriors I think we beat anyone. It’s never good to get ahead of yourself but it’s hard not to get excited by how this season has built and the sort of form we are now finding when it matters.

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by T_R » August 18, 2019, 3:15 pm

greeneyed wrote:I agree I could be one point too generous for Tapine, perhaps I didn't factor in enough for the ill discipline with the sin binning. But I don't think there's a lot in it. On Lui... Tapine's numbers were pretty much all ahead of Lui... so I'm pretty comfortable they're in the same territory, in terms of ratings.

There's no doubt the ratings are lower overall due to the first half... certainly a courageous and amazing win, but if the Raiders played for 80 minutes as they did for 50 minutes, it would have been a more complete and consistent performance. The plus side of that is that the Raiders just beat the ladder leaders on the Storm's home turf - after trailing 18-0 - yet there is still room for improvement.
Totally skirted around The Great Horsburgh Fiasco.

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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by greeneyed » August 18, 2019, 4:31 pm

T_R wrote:
August 18, 2019, 3:15 pm
greeneyed wrote:I agree I could be one point too generous for Tapine, perhaps I didn't factor in enough for the ill discipline with the sin binning. But I don't think there's a lot in it. On Lui... Tapine's numbers were pretty much all ahead of Lui... so I'm pretty comfortable they're in the same territory, in terms of ratings.

There's no doubt the ratings are lower overall due to the first half... certainly a courageous and amazing win, but if the Raiders played for 80 minutes as they did for 50 minutes, it would have been a more complete and consistent performance. The plus side of that is that the Raiders just beat the ladder leaders on the Storm's home turf - after trailing 18-0 - yet there is still room for improvement.
Totally skirted around The Great Horsburgh Fiasco.

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I stand by the 7. I thought he was very good and I gave him a point in the 3-2-1s.
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by Billy Walker » August 18, 2019, 4:43 pm

Considering it further, I think GE is bang on in relation to Hors. I thought Hors was outstanding and had his best game by far. I thought Bateman and Papa were very good but neither were close to the best we have seen from them. It’s hard not to rate players against what you expect from them. I’d have Hors a 9 comparative to expectations of him and probably would have Bateman and Papa around 7’s if I’m comparing against what I know they are capable of. If I set all that aside and just look at performance in yesterday’s game Hors is a solid 7 and Papa and Bateman are 8’s as GE suggested.

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by gangrenous » August 18, 2019, 5:52 pm

Quit quibbling with GE over a point for Hors.

Let’s get back to the real issue. Does anybody here think Lui and Tapine contributed equally to the Raiders winning yesterday? Tapine should probably be a 0.

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by Neeeegz » August 18, 2019, 6:31 pm

gangrenous wrote:Quit quibbling with GE over a point for Hors.

Let’s get back to the real issue. Does anybody here think Lui and Tapine contributed equally to the Raiders winning yesterday? Tapine should probably be a 0.
Tapine did nothing, I'd give him a 2.
And the Horse is looking the goods, I can't wait until he fills out a bit more.


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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by sprintman » August 18, 2019, 6:52 pm

Tarps looking like a bit of a liability. Not sure where his heads at tbh.

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by The Nickman » August 18, 2019, 7:00 pm

I would ABSOLUTELY give Tapine a 0 for that performance. Bloke needs a spell in Mounties, THAT’s the sort of thing that will cost you a grand final, not Croker’s defence as the Billy Walker gang would have you believe
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by Neeeegz » August 18, 2019, 7:58 pm

The Rickman wrote:I would ABSOLUTELY give Tapine a 0 for that performance. Bloke needs a spell in Mounties, THAT’s the sort of thing that will cost you a grand final, not Croker’s defence as the Billy Walker gang would have you believe
Billy and the cowards I heard. But agree tarps doesn't look interested at the moment, he was defending sia when he got sent off though

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by T_R » August 19, 2019, 10:31 am

gangrenous wrote:
August 18, 2019, 5:52 pm
Quit quibbling with GE over a point for Hors.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by greeneyed » August 19, 2019, 10:51 am

T_R wrote:
August 19, 2019, 10:31 am
gangrenous wrote:
August 18, 2019, 5:52 pm
Quit quibbling with GE over a point for Hors.
水中の河馬が燃えます牡丹雪
Underwater river horse burns Peony snow?
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by The Nickman » August 19, 2019, 11:11 am

Don't be silly Ferg, he clearly said the river horse in the water burns peony snow
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by T_R » August 19, 2019, 11:17 am

Philistines
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by RedRaider » August 19, 2019, 11:28 am

HorsPOWERs post contact meters at 64 against the best defensive team in the NRL, was simply outstanding. He is producing the kind of performances many of us have been seeing from early on. He is a natural hard bugger, but needed to work on discipline and skill/offloading. He has done that. Whatever you take off Tapine GE, I'd give it to Corey - and he's a Queenslander.

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by The Nickman » August 19, 2019, 1:24 pm

I have to say I was VERY impressed with Horsburgh against the Storm... he’s making me a believer!
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by SeeBee101 » August 19, 2019, 2:09 pm

Horse deserves an 8. Was a beast!

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by T_R » August 19, 2019, 2:16 pm

SeeBee101 wrote:
August 19, 2019, 2:09 pm
Horse deserves an 8. Was a beast!
GE won't be swayed. I tried making the point through traditional haiku, too (not the usual 'haiku' rubbish posted in these parts) but he's completely immovable.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by BJ » August 19, 2019, 2:17 pm

He’s showing how targeting your energy and anger towards the game, instead of towards gameplay, is the best attack on the opposition.

Becoming a smarter and more effective footballer by the day.

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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by Cranky Old Man » August 19, 2019, 10:22 pm

Most here are critical of the Raiders for their first half efforts, and I sort of see their point, up to a point. But I felt at the time that keeping the score to 18 which included the **** try of the year was a great effort. Most sides would have been blown off the park in the circumstances we found ourselves in, and the second half comeback would have been off the table. I watched the game in company with my daughter, who has turned into a good judge of the game. She said that when Croker missed the first conversion it probably put the game a fraction out of reach, but she thought the Raiders had three second half tries in them, it would come down to how good their defence was. She also noted that C Smith was playing as a half and cutting the young bloke Croft right out of the game.
When Papa scored he ran right at Croft, Smith and a seriously blowing K Bromwich, which was a very clever line.

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