Raiders player signing speculation 2019

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BJ
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by BJ »

Green eyed Mick wrote:I can't see TPJ getting $1Million a year. He's not consistent enough IMO.
Agree. Also a liability with his lateral defence. $750k give or take for me.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by edwahu »

I think 750-800k is right based on his ability, but if you tell me I have to pay a 200k loading to get an 750-800k player at 23 to Canberra, I would pay it.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by Botman »

750k-800k will be his cap number for the roosters.
His take home will be over the 1m

Straight up, i'd pay the mil. If it costs us Sezer, Williams and Rapana (age heavily factored in my willingness to let him walk), replaced by TPJ, O'Hagan and Niko on the active roster, with Oldfield moving into FG fulltime... I dunno, we'd lose a lot for 12-18 months without Raps, but we'd have someone i think could be one of the best players in the game for the next 5 years.

I think i'd do that.
i dont know what the cap situation is, and we might have to shed more than that, would would be a different conversation. But i stand firmly on it, a 23 year old who's playing like **** and putting up numbers that shame most the league and who's talent and upside is limitless. Yeah i want that guy, i'll gamble on that. Maybe i lose, but ill take my chances on talent like TPJ every day and twice on sunday.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by bonehead »

PigRickman wrote:750k-800k will be his cap number for the roosters.
His take home will be over the 1m

Straight up, i'd pay the mil. If it costs us Sezer, Williams and Rapana (age heavily factored in my willingness to let him walk), replaced by TPJ, O'Hagan and Niko on the active roster, with Oldfield moving into FG fulltime... I dunno, we'd lose a lot for 12-18 months without Raps, but we'd have someone i think could be one of the best players in the game for the next 5 years.

I think i'd do that.
i dont know what the cap situation is, and we might have to shed more than that, would would be a different conversation. But i stand firmly on it, a 23 year old who's playing like **** and putting up numbers that shame most the league and who's talent and upside is limitless. Yeah i want that guy, i'll gamble on that. Maybe i lose, but ill take my chances on talent like TPJ every day and twice on sunday.
Simonsson by next year could be there and thereabouts

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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by Wiki Special »

PigRickman wrote: April 8, 2019, 8:02 pm 750k-800k will be his cap number for the roosters.
His take home will be over the 1m

Straight up, i'd pay the mil. If it costs us Sezer, Williams and Rapana (age heavily factored in my willingness to let him walk), replaced by TPJ, O'Hagan and Niko on the active roster, with Oldfield moving into FG fulltime... I dunno, we'd lose a lot for 12-18 months without Raps, but we'd have someone i think could be one of the best players in the game for the next 5 years.

I think i'd do that.
i dont know what the cap situation is, and we might have to shed more than that, would would be a different conversation. But i stand firmly on it, a 23 year old who's playing like **** and putting up numbers that shame most the league and who's talent and upside is limitless. Yeah i want that guy, i'll gamble on that. Maybe i lose, but ill take my chances on talent like TPJ every day and twice on sunday.
I agree, I think we should sign TPJ as well. But I'd be very reluctant to let Rapana walk. My preference would be to keep Rapana on a 3 year deal and convince Sia to retire. I absolutely love Sia, he is a champion bloke who I hope we can keep involved with the club for the rest of his life. Dead set, give him a lifetime contract to help sweeten the deal. But adding TPJ and G. Williams while losing Sia, Sezer, L. Bateman, Hingano, Lui, S. Williams while promoting youngsters makes us a side that could push for contention for the immediate future. It is a high risk, high reward play that I think would prove worth it. Our best 17 would immense.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by -TW- »

Sia's almost in career best form at the moment

No way I'd be pushing him out the door
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

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-TW- wrote: April 8, 2019, 10:10 pm Sia's almost in career best form at the moment

No way I'd be pushing him out the door
Yeah, I love the bloke. Probably an unpopular choice but at 33 in August I see more value in keeping Rapana at 29/30 who is also playing outstanding football and has been in our best 3 players on performance since 2016.

Maybe I have missed the mark but if presented with the chance to sign a gun in his position and youngsters like Young, Murchie Horsburgh, Guler coming through I see merit in the move mentioned, even if I agree it is harsh and somewhat ruthless.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by edwahu »

We shouldn't have to let anyone walk. Sezer would probably move on if Williams is signed but that would be it I reckon, unless Rapana gets a crazy offer.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

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I wouldn’t let Sia walk
I believe it was badnmean a few pages ago who suggested having TPJ mentored by Sia and I think that’s perfect

Part of my plan in signing TPJ and ensuring he delivers on his limitless potential would be to have him mentored by Sia on and off the park

I’d build this pack around TPJ, Tapine and the Poms
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Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by LastRaider »

Wiki Special wrote:
-TW- wrote: April 8, 2019, 10:10 pm Sia's almost in career best form at the moment

No way I'd be pushing him out the door
Yeah, I love the bloke. Probably an unpopular choice but at 33 in August I see more value in keeping Rapana at 29/30 who is also playing outstanding football and has been in our best 3 players on performance since 2016.

Maybe I have missed the mark but if presented with the chance to sign a gun in his position and youngsters like Young, Murchie Horsburgh, Guler coming through I see merit in the move mentioned, even if I agree it is harsh and somewhat ruthless.
It’s better to move them on a year early than a year to late. Sia is my absolutely favorite player, I can’t speak highly enough of him but as a club we need to stop keeping players because we like them and their good club people. We need to always be aiming to deliver the best team year in year out which always comes with hard decisions. (Eg. Mitchell Pearce leaving the Roosters. He was a son of Bondi but the club new they couldn’t win another premiership with him. So they moved him on and bought in Cronk... they then won the premiership)


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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by edwahu »

I think staying a year too long is more a risk for backs and especially spine players. Worst case for players like Sia is usually they fade away.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by gerg »

LastRaider wrote:
Wiki Special wrote:
-TW- wrote: April 8, 2019, 10:10 pm Sia's almost in career best form at the moment

No way I'd be pushing him out the door
Yeah, I love the bloke. Probably an unpopular choice but at 33 in August I see more value in keeping Rapana at 29/30 who is also playing outstanding football and has been in our best 3 players on performance since 2016.

Maybe I have missed the mark but if presented with the chance to sign a gun in his position and youngsters like Young, Murchie Horsburgh, Guler coming through I see merit in the move mentioned, even if I agree it is harsh and somewhat ruthless.
It’s better to move them on a year early than a year to late. Sia is my absolutely favorite player, I can’t speak highly enough of him but as a club we need to stop keeping players because we like them and their good club people. We need to always be aiming to deliver the best team year in year out which always comes with hard decisions. (Eg. Mitchell Pearce leaving the Roosters. He was a son of Bondi but the club new they couldn’t win another premiership with him. So they moved him on and bought in Cronk... they then won the premiership)


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Without knowing his salary it's impossible to judge the return on investment but Sia is still an extremely valuable member of the side. At the moment he is probably second prop in the pecking order.

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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

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edwahu wrote: April 9, 2019, 7:10 am I think staying a year too long is more a risk for backs and especially spine players. Worst case for players like Sia is usually they fade away.
100% agree, which is why, even though i think Rapana is the best winger in the world and likely can still be in the next 12-18 months.
But he's 30 this year, and if we sign him long term, it's going to be for pretty big money... are we going to have a rapidly declining, very expensive 31-32 year old winger in 2021?

Now there is some other factors that complicate this. If you let Rapana go, is there a reason to keep Beej? I'd argued strongly that inspite of Beej's dumb ****, he gives us more than he takes away... without that combination with Rapana, that changes the equation. So there is dominoes to what you do here imo.

I think if i were making the call... if it was needed to make it work cap wise, i think i might be willing to make a Rapana, Beej, Sezer and S.Williams for G.Williams, TPJ and try and fill out the other side of the backline with Kris and Oldfield/Simonsen whoever.
And i'd do it kind of knowing that there is a real chance without Beej and Rapana, our attack would be problematic, especially if George aint it.

I also can see why someone might say TPJ isnt worth losing Raps and Beej for.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

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PigRickman wrote: April 9, 2019, 8:07 am 100% agree, which is why, even though i think Rapana is the best winger in the world and likely can still Now there is some other factors that complicate this. If you let Rapana go, is there a reason to keep Beej? I'd argued strongly that inspite of Beej's dumb ****, he gives us more than he takes away... without that combination with Rapana, that changes the equation. So there is dominoes to what you do here imo.
This was actually my reasoning for going the Sia route over the Rapana route. I think I we would lose a lot of the great work of Leilua without Rapana. They are almost a package deal. I also think Sia's main strengths with our squad are seen off the field, he is such a great mentor for the boys.

Obviously, it doesn't necessarily have to be lose one of Sia or Rapana to get TPJ but we would have to lose someone and I think he is worth getting. I respect all other views on who that should be and hopefully the club does the right thing in their opinion.
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Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by LastRaider »

Wiki Special wrote:
PigRickman wrote: April 9, 2019, 8:07 am 100% agree, which is why, even though i think Rapana is the best winger in the world and likely can still Now there is some other factors that complicate this. If you let Rapana go, is there a reason to keep Beej? I'd argued strongly that inspite of Beej's dumb ****, he gives us more than he takes away... without that combination with Rapana, that changes the equation. So there is dominoes to what you do here imo.
This was actually my reasoning for going the Sia route over the Rapana route. I think I we would lose a lot of the great work of Leilua without Rapana. They are almost a package deal. I also think Sia's main strengths with our squad are seen off the field, he is such a great mentor for the boys.

Obviously, it doesn't necessarily have to be lose one of Sia or Rapana to get TPJ but we would have to lose someone and I think he is worth getting. I respect all other views on who that should be and hopefully the club does the right thing in their opinion.
It’s just mine boggling how we are on the cap limit with the squad we have. Who on earth is taking up so much cap space I wonder


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Last edited by LastRaider on April 9, 2019, 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

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LastRaider wrote: April 9, 2019, 9:38 am
Wiki Special wrote:
PigRickman wrote: April 9, 2019, 8:07 am 100% agree, which is why, even though i think Rapana is the best winger in the world and likely can still Now there is some other factors that complicate this. If you let Rapana go, is there a reason to keep Beej? I'd argued strongly that inspite of Beej's dumb ****, he gives us more than he takes away... without that combination with Rapana, that changes the equation. So there is dominoes to what you do here imo.
This was actually my reasoning for going the Sia route over the Rapana route. I think I we would lose a lot of the great work of Leilua without Rapana. They are almost a package deal. I also think Sia's main strengths with our squad are seen off the field, he is such a great mentor for the boys.

Obviously, it doesn't necessarily have to be lose one of Sia or Rapana to get TPJ but we would have to lose someone and I think he is worth getting. I respect all other views on who that should be and hopefully the club does the right thing in their opinion.
It’s just mine boggling how we are on the cap limit with the squad we have. Who on earth is taking up so much cap space I wonder


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Yes, that is a valid question. I really wish the RLPA would shut up and player salaries were published as well as TPA's.

Then we can have transparency.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by Botman »

Ive said before and i think most agree with me. I dont think anyone is taking up a ton of space.
Like we dont have Croker on 1.4 mil or something.

What we have is every place on their top of market bracket with some Canberra tax. So (and these figures are pure hypothetical) if Croker's market value is say 500k, I'll be he's on 550k here. If Beej is worth 700k on market, we're probably paying him 760k. And so on. Lui is a 150k a year player probably getting 190k.

It's death by 1000, or rather 30 paper cuts. Id bet we're paying top of the market +interest on pretty much everyone, and ultimately 20k here, 40k there, 35k over there... over a squad of 30, that's going to add up to 600-800k or one marquee player.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by edwahu »

LastRaider wrote: April 9, 2019, 9:38 am
Wiki Special wrote:
PigRickman wrote: April 9, 2019, 8:07 am 100% agree, which is why, even though i think Rapana is the best winger in the world and likely can still Now there is some other factors that complicate this. If you let Rapana go, is there a reason to keep Beej? I'd argued strongly that inspite of Beej's dumb ****, he gives us more than he takes away... without that combination with Rapana, that changes the equation. So there is dominoes to what you do here imo.
This was actually my reasoning for going the Sia route over the Rapana route. I think I we would lose a lot of the great work of Leilua without Rapana. They are almost a package deal. I also think Sia's main strengths with our squad are seen off the field, he is such a great mentor for the boys.

Obviously, it doesn't necessarily have to be lose one of Sia or Rapana to get TPJ but we would have to lose someone and I think he is worth getting. I respect all other views on who that should be and hopefully the club does the right thing in their opinion.
It’s just mine boggling how we are on the cap limit with the squad we have. Who on earth is taking up so much cap space I wonder


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I don't think we are on it for next year which is what matters more. Most of the legacy contracts from 2016/17 would be cleared out by then.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by Rick »

Where do you put TPJ in our side? Bateman was obviously brought here to play 13 and sure up the middle defence. Bateman could shift to 11 but where does that leave Tapine? If Ricky saw him as a prop I think we would have seen that already as we have Young and Murchie knocking down the door to play second row.

We have not seen the full potential of Tapine yet, only glimpses. For mine its a case of which of those two players you want in your team. Without knowing what Tapine is on or what TPJ is asking for its a tough one.

No way would I be getting rid of our biggest strength (BJ and Rapana) to further stock an area we are strong in. I would rather we target a out and out prop rather than another lock.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by edwahu »

Papalii, Hodgson, TPJ, Tapine, Whitehead, Bateman
Bench of Havilli, Sutton, Sia, and 1 of whoever wins the battle out of Horsburgh/Young/Murchie

That's a premiership quality pack.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by Botman »

8. Papalii
9. Hodgson
10. TPJ
11. Tapine
12. Whitehead
13. Bateman

14. Sia
15. Sutton
16. Young/Murchie
17. Guler/Horsburgh

Im not worried about having a utility. i think John Bateman, Wighton and Whitehead provide ample cover for any sort of in game injury.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by zim »

When you're doing the sums don't forget Abbey is off this year too. Pretty sure we're paying his full freight this year. He's not on min wage.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by RedRaider »

I don't see the value in paying such high amounts for players who can't be on field for 80 minutes. TPJ is good but not $800k-$1m good. That money is for 80 minute game changers. He is not that type of player imo. For every good game there seems to be a poor game or as is likely a suspension.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by edwahu »

RedRaider wrote: April 9, 2019, 11:30 am I don't see the value in paying such high amounts for players who can't be on field for 80 minutes. TPJ is good but not $800k-$1m good. That money is for 80 minute game changers. He is not that type of player imo. For every good game there seems to be a poor game or as is likely a suspension.
Lolo, Klemmer, Fifita, Burgess? Easily worth 800k worst case.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by RedRaider »

Lolo to miss a good part of this season.
I don't want to see anyone seriously injured, but it's a contact sport and will happen.

Players like Smith, Cronk, soon to be Keary, they are worth it. Props - no.
How many minutes per match are each of those players averaging, Ed?
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by edwahu »

They average early 60's (Lolo) to early 70's (Burgess) with the other two mid 60's. TPJ average is around 60 but plays 70+ without issue.

You can't look at minutes as a factor without considering they are different positions with different workloads. There are virtually no 80 minute middles because the intensity is much higher than for a half. So I don't see how it's a factor unless it's a like for like comparison with other middles (e.g 650k for Boyd vs a normal middle in that price range)
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by Matt »

PigRickman wrote: April 9, 2019, 8:07 am
edwahu wrote: April 9, 2019, 7:10 am I think staying a year too long is more a risk for backs and especially spine players. Worst case for players like Sia is usually they fade away.
100% agree, which is why, even though i think Rapana is the best winger in the world and likely can still be in the next 12-18 months.
But he's 30 this year, and if we sign him long term, it's going to be for pretty big money... are we going to have a rapidly declining, very expensive 31-32 year old winger in 2021?

Now there is some other factors that complicate this. If you let Rapana go, is there a reason to keep Beej? I'd argued strongly that inspite of Beej's dumb ****, he gives us more than he takes away... without that combination with Rapana, that changes the equation. So there is dominoes to what you do here imo.

I think if i were making the call... if it was needed to make it work cap wise, i think i might be willing to make a Rapana, Beej, Sezer and S.Williams for G.Williams, TPJ and try and fill out the other side of the backline with Kris and Oldfield/Simonsen whoever.
And i'd do it kind of knowing that there is a real chance without Beej and Rapana, our attack would be problematic, especially if George aint it.

I also can see why someone might say TPJ isnt worth losing Raps and Beej for.
Not sure Id want to lose both those guys for the depth guys you mentioned, unless one of 2 things happen:
1. We move Cotric to right centre
2. We sign a mid ranged signing - A Lafai, coz they have to fit Lomax in, or 1 of the younger Jennings boys, etc. Though Seb Kris looked ok in the trials, at least defensively.
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Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by LastRaider »

PigRickman wrote:8. Papalii
9. Hodgson
10. TPJ
11. Tapine
12. Whitehead
13. Bateman

14. Sia
15. Sutton
16. Young/Murchie
17. Guler/Horsburgh

Im not worried about having a utility. i think John Bateman, Wighton and Whitehead provide ample cover for any sort of in game injury.
Thumbs up from me for that pack! I also agree in that I don’t see the value of having a utility either now.


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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by Beejay »

Are we actually a chance at TPJ or is this still pipe dream discussion?
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by Matt »

LastRaider wrote: April 9, 2019, 2:09 pm
PigRickman wrote:8. Papalii
9. Hodgson
10. TPJ
11. Tapine
12. Whitehead
13. Bateman

14. Sia
15. Sutton
16. Young/Murchie
17. Guler/Horsburgh

Im not worried about having a utility. i think John Bateman, Wighton and Whitehead provide ample cover for any sort of in game injury.
Thumbs up from me for that pack! I also agree in that I don’t see the value of having a utility either now.


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The utility is injury insurance. Not having it is asking for trouble. Havili is proving to be a more than capable mobile middle. A much better option than Young or Murchie at full strength.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by -PJ- »

Beejay wrote: April 9, 2019, 2:35 pm Are we actually a chance at TPJ or is this still pipe dream discussion?
Oh..we're a chance.

He's ringing me back after 5.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by Botman »

Beejay wrote: April 9, 2019, 2:35 pm Are we actually a chance at TPJ or is this still pipe dream discussion?
No idea but we were definitely in contact last year before he signed a one year deal
Matt wrote: April 9, 2019, 2:46 pm The utility is injury insurance. Not having it is asking for trouble. Havili is proving to be a more than capable mobile middle. A much better option than Young or Murchie at full strength.
We can cover any injury for a game with the squad named. I like Havili, he's fine... but i'd rather cast my lot with a player like Young or Murchie who is more talented and has higher upside. But you can have him on your bench if you want, point is our pack in its current state shouldnt preclude us from attempting to add TPJ if we can.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by Postman Pat »

PigRickman wrote:
Beejay wrote: April 9, 2019, 2:35 pm Are we actually a chance at TPJ or is this still pipe dream discussion?
No idea but we were definitely in contact last year before he signed a one year deal
Matt wrote: April 9, 2019, 2:46 pm The utility is injury insurance. Not having it is asking for trouble. Havili is proving to be a more than capable mobile middle. A much better option than Young or Murchie at full strength.
We can cover any injury for a game with the squad named. I like Havili, he's fine... but i'd rather cast my lot with a player like Young or Murchie who is more talented and has higher upside. But you can have him on your bench if you want, point is our pack in its current state shouldnt preclude us from attempting to add TPJ if we can.

Imagine anyone thinking TPJ doesn’t have a spot in our pack, he’s a walk up start up in pack in the world.


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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by Wiki Special »

PigRickman wrote: April 9, 2019, 10:43 am 8. Papalii
9. Hodgson
10. TPJ
11. Tapine
12. Whitehead
13. Bateman

14. Sia
15. Sutton
16. Young/Murchie
17. Guler/Horsburgh

Im not worried about having a utility. i think John Bateman, Wighton and Whitehead provide ample cover for any sort of in game injury.
This would legitimately be the best starting pack in the comp.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2019

Post by FROG »

I reckon the cowboys would have our measure. On paper at least. Not exactly working out for them is it?

I happen to be in the thanks but no thanks camp for TPJ if he wants anything north of 800k... as I've mentioned elsewhere, you'd be paying for potential and I have serious concerns with his attitude..
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