What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

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gergreg
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by gergreg » January 16, 2019, 8:57 pm

So which one, or even worse case scenario two, are we willing to lose out of Murchie and Horsburgh? We have those two plus Tapine, Whitehead and Bateman and 5 quality back-rowers for 3 places doesn't work.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Dusty » January 16, 2019, 9:11 pm

I’d hate to have to decide, but if pushed I’d keep Horsburgh


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2019: 1. Wighton 2. Cotric 3. Croker (c) 4 Leilua 5. Oldfield (Rapana) 6. Williams 7. Sezer 8. Sutton 9. Hodgson (c) 10. Papalii 11. Tapine 12. Whitehead 13. J.Bateman ----
14. Havili 15. Soliola 16. Guler 17. Lui

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Wiki Special » January 16, 2019, 9:32 pm

gergreg wrote:
January 16, 2019, 8:57 pm
So which one, or even worse case scenario two, are we willing to lose out of Murchie and Horsburgh? We have those two plus Tapine, Whitehead and Bateman and 5 quality back-rowers for 3 places doesn't work.

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This may be an unpopular view but I would keep both Murchie and Horsburgh before I kept Guler.

To be clear, I hope we keep all three and feel they have NRL futures. I just rate those two more.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by edwahu » January 17, 2019, 5:41 am

I'd keep Horsburgh easily over Murchie and without much hesitation over Guler, although with our current prop situation he would be a big loss.

I think the question should be what would we be willing to lose out of Horsburgh or another few years of mediocre players with no upside like Luke Bateman or Lui.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by gergreg » January 17, 2019, 6:36 am

edwahu wrote:I'd keep Horsburgh easily over Murchie and without much hesitation over Guler, although with our current prop situation he would be a big loss.

I think the question should be what would we be willing to lose out of Horsburgh or another few years of mediocre players with no upside like Luke Bateman or Lui.
I thought Horsburgh was a backrower, that's why I threw his name in with the other backrowers. I mean you could probably throw Papalii's name in with the other 4 as well. So that is 6 players vying for 3 positions. Two of those six realistically have to leave the club if they want a starting spot. It would be a left field decision to carry 2 backrowers on the bench.
Like Coastal said we are stacked in an area where we don't really need to be stacked, given our glaring deficiencies in other areas, though Sticky has always loved his backrowers.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by greeneyed » January 17, 2019, 6:55 am

Horsburgh is a lock, who can play second row. Murchie a second rower who can play lock.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Coastalraider » January 17, 2019, 8:06 am

This will be exceptionally unpopular - but I would loose one of Bateman/Whitehead/Tapine first.

I absolutely love the fact we have such a talented back row, and I DONT want to loose any of them, but sliding one of the young boys in and spending that rep level money on a half instead is just good business.

We arguable have the best back row in the best back row in the comp, and only 1 first grade (only just) level half in Sezer - thats bloody bad cap spend given the importance of the spine positions.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by edwahu » January 17, 2019, 9:24 am

Our spend on backrowers would be in line with the top sides. That's not where the money is wasted. We also already spend enough on the spine compared to other clubs to have a very good one, it's just that we haven't got value for money.

I wouldn't move any of our top tier of players on when we are in a situation where we can't sign anyone in the NRL.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by greeneyed » January 17, 2019, 9:34 am

Coastalraider wrote:
January 17, 2019, 8:06 am
This will be exceptionally unpopular - but I would loose one of Bateman/Whitehead/Tapine first.

I absolutely love the fact we have such a talented back row, and I DONT want to loose any of them, but sliding one of the young boys in and spending that rep level money on a half instead is just good business.

We arguable have the best back row in the best back row in the comp, and only 1 first grade (only just) level half in Sezer - thats bloody bad cap spend given the importance of the spine positions.
I'd agree if it is Luke you're talking about.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Beejay » January 17, 2019, 10:01 am

Coastalraider wrote:
January 17, 2019, 8:06 am
This will be exceptionally unpopular - but I would loose one of Bateman/Whitehead/Tapine first.

I absolutely love the fact we have such a talented back row, and I DONT want to loose any of them, but sliding one of the young boys in and spending that rep level money on a half instead is just good business.

We arguable have the best back row in the best back row in the comp, and only 1 first grade (only just) level half in Sezer - thats bloody bad cap spend given the importance of the spine positions.
This is going to be exceptionally popular - when you have a rep quality player that is playing well and has a number of years of quality footy ahead of them, you never let them go. It costs more to recruit such a player than it does to retain. If you can even do it. This issue is magnified at a club such as the Raiders.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by zim » January 17, 2019, 10:03 am

There should be enough in the cap to table him a competitive offer. Brad Abbey and Luke Bateman are off contract. Bateman wouldn't be on min wage but he would be close. Abbey was on more than min but initially the bulldogs were covering part of it. Now we have it all I think?

I'd take Guler and Horsburgh over Murchie. But we've got Murchie and Guler tied up already so if they see less first grade time this year to let Horsburgh get a look in it won't hurt us.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by SeeBee101 » January 17, 2019, 10:52 am

I haven't seen anything from Murchie in either ISP or NRL that shows him to be exceptional. Looks pretty bog average to me. I just don't see him progressing into the 17 at all this year.

I would get rid of Murchie to keep the redhead any day of the week.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by simo » January 17, 2019, 12:54 pm

Would this pack work for anyone?
8 big papi (the original)
10 tapine (frist drop backrow cover)
11 bateman (ctw cover)
12 whitehead (halves cover)
13 hornsborough
14 havili (lock rotation, hooker cover)
15 soliola (front row, backrow cover)
16 guler (front row exlusive)
17 best performing remaining forward
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by edwahu » January 17, 2019, 1:03 pm

simo wrote:
January 17, 2019, 12:54 pm
Would this pack work for anyone?
8 big papi (the original)
10 tapine (frist drop backrow cover)
11 bateman (ctw cover)
12 whitehead (halves cover)
13 hornsborough
14 havili (lock rotation, hooker cover)
15 soliola (front row, backrow cover)
16 guler (front row exlusive)
17 best performing remaining forward
Yep, that was my pack with Sutton in 17.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Wiki Special » January 17, 2019, 1:05 pm

simo wrote:
January 17, 2019, 12:54 pm
Would this pack work for anyone?
8 big papi (the original)
10 tapine (frist drop backrow cover)
11 bateman (ctw cover)
12 whitehead (halves cover)
13 hornsborough
14 havili (lock rotation, hooker cover)
15 soliola (front row, backrow cover)
16 guler (front row exlusive)
17 best performing remaining forward
Yes. I am hoping Bateman plays edge and Tapine plays middle rather than the other way around. Horsburgh is probably 6-12 months away from first grade but by this time next year he will be in the 17 for sure if we retain him.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by simo » January 17, 2019, 1:05 pm

edwahu wrote:
January 17, 2019, 1:03 pm
simo wrote:
January 17, 2019, 12:54 pm
Would this pack work for anyone?
8 big papi (the original)
10 tapine (frist drop backrow cover)
11 bateman (ctw cover)
12 whitehead (halves cover)
13 hornsborough
14 havili (lock rotation, hooker cover)
15 soliola (front row, backrow cover)
16 guler (front row exlusive)
17 best performing remaining forward
Yep, that was my pack with Sutton in 17.
Ive never seen sutton play so i left it vague
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by simo » January 17, 2019, 1:07 pm

Wiki Special wrote:
January 17, 2019, 1:05 pm
simo wrote:
January 17, 2019, 12:54 pm
Would this pack work for anyone?
8 big papi (the original)
10 tapine (frist drop backrow cover)
11 bateman (ctw cover)
12 whitehead (halves cover)
13 hornsborough
14 havili (lock rotation, hooker cover)
15 soliola (front row, backrow cover)
16 guler (front row exlusive)
17 best performing remaining forward
Yes. I am hoping Bateman plays edge and Tapine plays middle rather than the other way around. Horsburgh is probably 6-12 months away from first grade but by this time next year he will be in the 17 for sure if we retain him.
Maybe he is, but i think playing in amongst the other listed starters he can make a big jump in his development.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Wiki Special » January 17, 2019, 1:11 pm

simo wrote:
January 17, 2019, 1:07 pm
Wiki Special wrote:
January 17, 2019, 1:05 pm
simo wrote:
January 17, 2019, 12:54 pm
Would this pack work for anyone?
8 big papi (the original)
10 tapine (frist drop backrow cover)
11 bateman (ctw cover)
12 whitehead (halves cover)
13 hornsborough
14 havili (lock rotation, hooker cover)
15 soliola (front row, backrow cover)
16 guler (front row exlusive)
17 best performing remaining forward
Yes. I am hoping Bateman plays edge and Tapine plays middle rather than the other way around. Horsburgh is probably 6-12 months away from first grade but by this time next year he will be in the 17 for sure if we retain him.
Maybe he is, but i think playing in amongst the other listed starters he can make a big jump in his development.
Yeah, valid point. If the coaching staff feel he earns a spot with his pre-season I would be happy to see him in our 17.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Beejay » January 17, 2019, 1:15 pm

Beejay wrote:
January 2, 2019, 9:08 am

8. Tapine
9. Hodgson
10. Soliola
11. J Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Papalii

14. Havili
15. Sutton
16. Lui
17. L Bateman
Guler, horsburgh and Murchie first drop.
Not against either of these blokes taking a spot on the bench on pre-season form. I'm really only wedded to Havili and Lui for their performances last year.
MIne's the same as yours in substance. Soliola into the starting team ahead of Horsburgh.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by simo » January 17, 2019, 1:20 pm

Beejay wrote:
January 17, 2019, 1:15 pm
Beejay wrote:
January 2, 2019, 9:08 am

8. Tapine
9. Hodgson
10. Soliola
11. J Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Papalii

14. Havili
15. Sutton
16. Lui
17. L Bateman
Guler, horsburgh and Murchie first drop.
Not against either of these blokes taking a spot on the bench on pre-season form. I'm really only wedded to Havili and Lui for their performances last year.
MIne's the same as yours in substance. Soliola into the starting team ahead of Horsburgh.
Kept sia on the bench to have a fresher leg option for backrow cover. Also i think there would be too mich forward quality on the park at once to start with and the quality drop might be too noticeable. Horny should lift to the level of those around him. I think its the best way to introduce players like him
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by zim » January 17, 2019, 2:07 pm

Is debuting a junior forward straight from reserve grade into the starting pack ever done?

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by edwahu » January 17, 2019, 2:08 pm

Horsburgh is 21, plenty old enough for first grade. He is older than Guler and same age as Murchie and outperformed both on the lower grades.

Maybe give him a couple of games off the bench if you're worried but not this 15 minutes in a couple of games rubbish.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by simo » January 17, 2019, 2:10 pm

zim wrote:
January 17, 2019, 2:07 pm
Is debuting a junior forward straight from reserve grade into the starting pack ever done?
Gotta be better than sitting them on the bench for 75 mins a week for a year
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by zim » January 17, 2019, 2:22 pm

Cool. Just wasn't sure if I was missing something or we were hoping for sticky to take a punt and innovate, as far as he's concerned.
I think there's zero chance of him starting given current contracts and stick's general overprotective attitude regarding the "kids".
It would be great to see him getting some bench time. Even better to hear of some re-signing news.

21 is not plenty old enough to just assume someone is ok to start in the front row week on week (as opposed to the wing), but if he's good enough he's good enough.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by simo » January 17, 2019, 2:33 pm

I think its the best way to debut a middle guy. He will have the best players around him fresh and ready to go. The pace of the game is much easier to get in the swing of when you start as opposed to jumping into the already fast moving game. I wouldnt expect him to be taking many runs in his first few stints on but with the quality of the other players around him, you wouldnt want him to
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by zim » January 17, 2019, 2:39 pm

It's a good argument :) Certainly the best way to keep him at the club.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by edwahu » January 17, 2019, 2:41 pm

To me, if you're 21 and physically have the build age is a non factor.

The exception are players like Brenko who don't have fundamental skills down pat, but that's not Horsburgh, and even then plenty of our first graders don't have them either.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by BJ » January 17, 2019, 2:47 pm

If these young guys want a NRL birth then they have to go out there and prove it.

Dunamis Lui went out and fought for a new contract Last season by outperforming our two higher paid and higher credentialed Props.

If our young guns want to earn higher contracts and starting positions over the likes of Lui and Solioloa, then they will have to be outperforming those two on the park and on the training field, as well as outperforming them mentally.


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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by edwahu » January 17, 2019, 3:07 pm

BJ wrote:
January 17, 2019, 2:47 pm
If these young guys want a NRL birth then they have to go out there and prove it.

Dunamis Lui went out and fought for a new contract Last season by outperforming our two higher paid and higher credentialed Props.

If our young guns want to earn higher contracts and starting positions over the likes of Lui and Solioloa, then they will have to be outperforming those two on the park and on the training field, as well as outperforming them mentally.
Trying hard at training doesn't translate to wins, every off-season is full of stories about awful players training the house down. I'm not sure how they outperform them mentally either, or on the park when they aren't selected.

Talent win comps and we can't buy it, so we need to nurture talent and take big risks on it.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by simo » January 17, 2019, 3:30 pm

edwahu wrote:
January 17, 2019, 3:07 pm
BJ wrote:
January 17, 2019, 2:47 pm
If these young guys want a NRL birth then they have to go out there and prove it.

Dunamis Lui went out and fought for a new contract Last season by outperforming our two higher paid and higher credentialed Props.

If our young guns want to earn higher contracts and starting positions over the likes of Lui and Solioloa, then they will have to be outperforming those two on the park and on the training field, as well as outperforming them mentally.
Trying hard at training doesn't translate to wins, every off-season is full of stories about awful players training the house down. I'm not sure how they outperform them mentally either, or on the park when they aren't selected.

Talent win comps and we can't buy it, so we need to nurture talent and take big risks on it.
Yeah put me in the talent ahead of effort camp (to an extent). Im sure someone could create a talent to effort equation with supporting graph for me
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by edwahu » January 17, 2019, 3:41 pm

simo wrote:
January 17, 2019, 3:30 pm


Yeah put me in the talent ahead of effort camp (to an extent). Im sure someone could create a talent to effort equation with supporting graph for me
Here you go

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Coastalraider » January 17, 2019, 4:33 pm

Beejay wrote:
January 17, 2019, 10:01 am
Coastalraider wrote:
January 17, 2019, 8:06 am
This will be exceptionally unpopular - but I would loose one of Bateman/Whitehead/Tapine first.

I absolutely love the fact we have such a talented back row, and I DONT want to loose any of them, but sliding one of the young boys in and spending that rep level money on a half instead is just good business.

We arguable have the best back row in the best back row in the comp, and only 1 first grade (only just) level half in Sezer - thats bloody bad cap spend given the importance of the spine positions.
This is going to be exceptionally popular - when you have a rep quality player that is playing well and has a number of years of quality footy ahead of them, you never let them go. It costs more to recruit such a player than it does to retain. If you can even do it. This issue is magnified at a club such as the Raiders.
I totally respect that point, and in an ideal world we wouldn’t gett rid of anyone of that list. But we aren’t in an ideal world, we pay overs for players and have less TPAs than the big teams.

If you look at the SuperCoach (I know, I know) values of our players, only 1 of our spine is rated in the top half of our squad. Does that make sense?

We will have a top 4 back row, top 4 wingers (when Rapa is fit), and a top 8 centre pairing. We have a great hooker, but Sezer isn’t a top playmaker, regardless of the optimism I held when he arrived. Moving Jack is a gamble that may pay off, but weakens his best spot to cover a deficiency that would otherwise be filled by Sammy Williams, a player who has not cemented himself in first grade in nearly a decade. As it stands it looks like Abbey will be our fullback, and if we do move Rapa ther on his return we break up the most lethal wing/centre combo in the Comp.

I just feel like the majority of our top flight quality is in non spine positions, and given our challenge of attracting players, we may need to free up cash.

Ideally, we would be good enough at managing our cap to have both a decent spine, and keep our rep level spine players.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Beejay » January 17, 2019, 6:07 pm

Coastalraider wrote:
January 17, 2019, 4:33 pm



If you look at the SuperCoach (I know, I know) values of our players, only 1 of our spine is rated in the top half of our squad. Does that make sense?

No it doesn’t make sense

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by LastRaider » January 21, 2019, 8:50 pm

simo wrote:
Beejay wrote:
January 17, 2019, 1:15 pm
Beejay wrote:
January 2, 2019, 9:08 am

8. Tapine
9. Hodgson
10. Soliola
11. J Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Papalii

14. Havili
15. Sutton
16. Lui
17. L Bateman
Guler, horsburgh and Murchie first drop.
Not against either of these blokes taking a spot on the bench on pre-season form. I'm really only wedded to Havili and Lui for their performances last year.
MIne's the same as yours in substance. Soliola into the starting team ahead of Horsburgh.
Kept sia on the bench to have a fresher leg option for backrow cover. Also i think there would be too mich forward quality on the park at once to start with and the quality drop might be too noticeable. Horny should lift to the level of those around him. I think its the best way to introduce players like him
I like this, would like to see Guler on the bench somewhere though


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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by greeneyed » January 23, 2019, 10:17 am

Will they flourish or fail? Here are 10 NRL stars set for a positional change in 2019

JACK WIGHTON (fullback to five-eighth)

If reports are to be believed, it seems Wighton is set for a switch to five-eighth in 2019. Wighton is said to have been training at six alongside halfback Aidan Sezer this pre-season.

It’s a position not unfamiliar to Wighton, with the 25-year-old having started there in nine games in 2014. In those matches, he had two tries, three try assists, five linebreak assists and seven tackle busts. Wighton also hasn’t been shy to put boot to ball, averaging six kicks and 197 metres per game.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 170295dc5a
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