What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

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Trollip
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Trollip »

1. Abbey
2. Oldfeild ( Rapana )
3. Wighton
4. BJ
5. Cotric
6. Croker
7. Seizer
8. Papali
9. Hodgson
10. Guler
11. Soliola
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Havali
15. J Bateman
16. Lui
17. L Bateman
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-TW-
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by -TW- »

Trollip wrote:1. Abbey
2. Oldfeild ( Rapana )
3. Wighton
4. BJ
5. Cotric
6. Croker
7. Seizer
8. Papali
9. Hodgson
10. Guler
11. Soliola
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Havali
15. J Bateman
16. Lui
17. L Bateman
Doors over there...
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by -PJ- »

Trollip :woot:

Welcome to the GH.

Where your option is yours and we all laugh at it...
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greeneyed
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What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by greeneyed »

The Greenhouse has traditionally run a series of polls in the off season to determine the fans' view of the strongest possible top 17... irrespective of injuries. However, this year we're doing something a little different.

We're assessing the contenders for each position... and we hope you'll tell us what you think.

As well, we're inviting you to list your strongest possible team right here in this thread. Remember, this is a squad irrespective of injuries. Think of it this way: it is the team you want firing in the finals! Feel free to update your team as the squad is added to and the trials proceed.

The contenders - Wingers

Image

Jordan Rapana
Nick Cotric
Jarrod Croker
Michael Oldfield
Sebastian Kris
Brad Abbey


Jordan Rapana and Nick Cotric are the Raiders incumbent wingers - and they're two of the best in the business. The bulk of fans would have them in their strongest line ups on the flanks... but Rapana is set to miss the first half of the 2019 season after suffering a dislocated shoulder in New Zealand's post season Test series against England. The issue the Raiders are now facing is how best to cover his absence.

Rapana leaves a very big hole in the back line. In 2017, he won the Dally M Winger of the Year and shared, with Nick Cotric, the Canberra Raiders Fans' Choice Player of the Year. His form was down in 2018, but he was still one of the Raiders' best, finishing as Best Back, alongside Jack Wighton, in Fans' Choice voting.

In 2018, he scored 10 tries (21 in 2017), equal third with Elliott Whitehead at the Raiders. He was not in the top 10 NRL wingers for tries scored, but he ranked eighth for total try involvements. He ranked just outside the top 10 players for line breaks (17) and just outside the top 15 players for tackle breaks (just under four per match). He has a huge work rate and finished fourth in the NRL for dummy half runs. He made more running metres per match than any player at the Raiders, making over 10 metres per carry. So even though his try scoring strike rate fell last season, he will be missed - and once fit, he will be straight back into the No. 5 jersey.

Nick Cotric was not only the Canberra Raiders Rookie of the Year in 2017, he was the Dally M Rookie of the Year and joint winner of the Canberra Raiders Fans' Choice Award. He made his unexpected debut in Round 1 2017, at the age of 18, playing every match. He scored 16 tries and was one of the leading players in the NRL for tackle breaks and line breaks.



Some fans no doubt wondered whether he might suffer second year syndrome in 2018. But there was not much sign of that. He again played in every match of 2018, with 19 appearances in his customary position on the wing, along with four matches at fullback and one at centre.

His try scoring rate was a little down last year, ending with 12 four pointers. In the try scoring stakes, that left him just outside the top 10 wingers in the competition, but still second at the Raiders, behind Joey Leilua (14). He was second in the NRL for tackle breaks (over five per match), just behind James Tedesco, and fourth for line breaks (22). He averaged 8.5 metres per run (down on 10 metres per run in 2017) and over 100 metres per match.

So Cotric has a mortgage on the No. 2 jersey... but as we've discussed previously, some fans would like to see him make a shift to either fullback or centre. In the latter case, some fans have suggested co-captain Jarrod Croker should shift to the wing, putting Cotric closer to the action. If he were to shift to fullback, there would be two wing vacancies to start the season.

So who can step in? Barring any further recruitment, Michael Oldfield is the most likely player to cover for Rapana. Oldfield made eight appearances for the Raiders in 2018, five on the wing and three at centre. He was a regular selection between Rounds 15 and 19, covering injuries to Jordan Rapana and Jarrod Croker. However, Oldfield suffered his own injury in the loss to Cronulla at Shark Park. It was feared medial ligament damage would rule him out for the rest of the season, but was able to make a return to the field for the final two matches of the year.

He's performed pretty well when called upon - scoring a hat trick against the Cowboys and a double against the Rabbitohs. He scored six tries in 2018, a fairly good strike rate in eight matches. He ranked fourth at the club for average running metres and third for metres per run. One point for concern is his defence. He had eight try causes to his name, ranking first at the club for try causes per match. He ranked fifth for average line break causes per match.

Sebastian Kris has joined the Raiders top 30 list - at age 19. He's listed as a centre, but he's able to cover winger as well. He has a lot of potential - and at times he has looked unstoppable in lower grades. He was promoted from Jersey Flegg to the Mounties NSW Premiership team towards the end of last year - playing eight games at centre, and one on the wing. He's still handling the challenge of playing against men every week - but could come into contention in the event of injury or suspension.

Brad Abbey is listed as a fullback - but he could cover wing at a pinch. Two of his nine appearances in 2018 were on the wing - but they were not his best performances... and his error rate is point of concern. Andre Niko and Bailey Simonsson are development players who play wing (Niko is listed as a fullback) - but they can't be called on unless there's a very serious injury crisis.

So are Rapana and Cotric in your strongest line up on the wing - with Oldfield to cover for Rapana in the first half of the year? Or are you a Raiders fan who's thinking outside the box? Tell us your views. Tomorrow, we'll assess the contenders for the wing.

Jordan Rapana's 2018 and statistics
Nick Cotric's 2018 and statistics
Jarrod Croker's 2018 and statistics
Michael Oldfield's 2018 and statistics
Brad Abbey's 2018 and statistics
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Matt
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Matt »

Cotric and Oldie til Rapa returns
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by dubby »

Matt wrote:Cotric and Oldie til Rapa returns
Agree with Stat Man.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Wiki Special »

I honestly got the impression late in the 2018 season that the coach and the player himself had reservations about playing Cotric at fullback regularly. Time will tell but I really don't see him playing there for us unless required as a fill in during a match.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by zim »

He's asked him where he wants to be and he said "At this stage Winger."
I don't see Cotric being fullback until desperation kicks in.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by zim »

1. Jack Wighton
2. Nick Cotric
3. Jarrod Croker
4. Joey Leilua
5. Michael Oldfield
6. Aidan Sezer
7. Sam Williams
8. Sia Soliola
9. Josh Hodgson
10. Josh Papalii
11. John Bateman
12. Elliot Whitehead
13. Joseph Tapine

14. Siliva Havili
15. Luke Bateman
16. Ryan Sutton
17. Emre Guler

This is probably the first season in a while where I'm not sure on the STRONGEST possible lineup.
Williams is a defensive liability, but Wighton is by far our best fullback. Our second best fullbacks are a) Injured for 12 weeks and b) Don't enjoy playing there.
We have bought an international (voted best player in super league) second rower in John Bateman. He has won 0 (that's zero) accolades at lock and all his best and international footy has been played at either second row or centre. He's not playing centre here. He's "locked" (hah) in for a second row spot.
Tapine is a stud of the highest order but if there was a criticism to level at him it's his mobility and decision making when out wide in defence. He'll be moved in to Lock and the 2 English internationals will play on the edge.
Whitehead took it to another level in the recent Internationals where he wasn't bogged down by the disappointments of playing for a side that should be in the 8 but isn't. In a line up of studs; he's our best second rower IMO.
Papalii is our marquee prop. Build the go forward around him for the next 4 years. He will play origin as a starting prop and should have played for Australia at prop if it wasn't for other commitments.

Probably the biggest omission here as far as The Greenhouse is concerned is Dunamis Lui. His defense just is not good enough for mind. Bateman is a far, far better defender.
I really don't give 2 hoots about splitting up Sia and Paps either. We could play Havili as a second choice lock and bring Murchie onto the bench if we have to. It really doesn't matter. Our bench is going to provide regardless of who sits on it because they all think they've got a chance to cement a spot and they are all ready to fire. I haven't even mentioned Horsgburgh or Colliins yet. All these lads are effort players. If Lui is on the bench you know when he is coming on you are are going to get that 110% effort in round 5 or round 15.

I don't expect this to be the 17 we run out with in round 1 but I do think it's our best chance of winning the first 5 rounds.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by BadnMean »

zim wrote: January 4, 2019, 11:00 pm 1. Jack Wighton
2. Nick Cotric
3. Jarrod Croker
4. Joey Leilua
5. Michael Oldfield
6. Aidan Sezer
7. Sam Williams
8. Sia Soliola
9. Josh Hodgson
10. Josh Papalii
11. John Bateman
12. Elliot Whitehead
13. Joseph Tapine

14. Siliva Havili
15. Luke Bateman
16. Ryan Sutton
17. Emre Guler

This is probably the first season in a while where I'm not sure on the STRONGEST possible lineup.
Williams is a defensive liability, but Wighton is by far our best fullback. Our second best fullbacks are a) Injured for 12 weeks and b) Don't enjoy playing there.
We have bought an international (voted best player in super league) second rower in John Bateman. He has won 0 (that's zero) accolades at lock and all his best and international footy has been played at either second row or centre. He's not playing centre here. He's "locked" (hah) in for a second row spot.
Tapine is a stud of the highest order but if there was a criticism to level at him it's his mobility and decision making when out wide in defence. He'll be moved in to Lock and the 2 English internationals will play on the edge.
Whitehead took it to another level in the recent Internationals where he wasn't bogged down by the disappointments of playing for a side that should be in the 8 but isn't. In a line up of studs; he's our best second rower IMO.
Papalii is our marquee prop. Build the go forward around him for the next 4 years. He will play origin as a starting prop and should have played for Australia at prop if it wasn't for other commitments.

Probably the biggest omission here as far as The Greenhouse is concerned is Dunamis Lui. His defense just is not good enough for mind. Bateman is a far, far better defender.
I really don't give 2 hoots about splitting up Sia and Paps either. We could play Havili as a second choice lock and bring Murchie onto the bench if we have to. It really doesn't matter. Our bench is going to provide regardless of who sits on it because they all think they've got a chance to cement a spot and they are all ready to fire. I haven't even mentioned Horsgburgh or Colliins yet. All these lads are effort players. If Lui is on the bench you know when he is coming on you are are going to get that 110% effort in round 5 or round 15.

I don't expect this to be the 17 we run out with in round 1 but I do think it's our best chance of winning the first 5 rounds.
Refreshing take and well argued. It does look like a good use of player talents.

Depending on how much legs this "wighton training at 5/8" rumour has it may or may not be what Ricky runs out with.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by RTW »

@zim what do you think Lui’s main defensive issues are?


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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by julian87 »

Wighton
Oldfield
Croker
Leilua
Cotric
Whitehead
Sezer
Papalii
Hodgson
Sutton
Tapine
Bateman
Soliola

Havili
Guler
Lui
Other forward showing best form
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by greeneyed »

Whitehead is a makeshift five eighth, in an emergency during a match. He’s got skills, but not enough mobility, pace at five eighth.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by edwahu »

Let's face it, we aren't winning the comp with the current squad so we need to have an eye to the future.

1. Signing
2. Cotric
3. Croker
4. BJ on his last chance to learn to defend
5. Rapana
6. Jack
7. Sezer
8. Tapine
9. Hodgo
10. Papa
11. Whitehead
12. J.Bateman
13. Horsburgh
------------------------
14. Havilli
15. Sutton
16. Sia
17. Guler


Horsburgh will be a better player than Luke Bateman and Lui almost immediately. The former in particular is just such a limited player. This pack also gives us potentially the best starting front row in the game.

If we don't sign a fullback I'd chuck Cotric back there and if he struggle throw Rapana in there when he returns.

If BJ can't learn to defend by week 6 I would shop him.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Wiki Special »

I'm surprised Murchie isn't in many best 17's. From a small sample size he is a better prospect than Guler. My opinion only.

I also agree with the above on Horsburgh.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by edwahu »

Wiki Special wrote: January 5, 2019, 8:02 am I'm surprised Murchie isn't in many best 17's. From a small sample size he is a better prospect than Guler. My opinion only.

I also agree with the above on Horsburgh.
He is unlucky he plays in the most stacked position and I am doubtful his game translates well to the middle.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Wiki Special »

edwahu wrote: January 5, 2019, 8:29 am
Wiki Special wrote: January 5, 2019, 8:02 am I'm surprised Murchie isn't in many best 17's. From a small sample size he is a better prospect than Guler. My opinion only.

I also agree with the above on Horsburgh.
He is unlucky he plays in the most stacked position and I am doubtful his game translates well to the middle.
I still would have him on my Raiders bench.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by zim »

RTW wrote: January 5, 2019, 4:17 am @zim what do you think Lui’s main defensive issues are?
The main issue is his technique is not as good as it should be. He grabs too many arms on larger opponents so he ends up lacking stopping power and all too often slides off when he should be wrapping up.

He's not a particularly slow lateral mover but he seems to lack awareness out of marker. Part of that could be due to how hard he runs the ball leaving less in the tank.

If he went into a tackle with the the same gusto as he hits the ball up he'd be a menace, but there is a technique issue there that can't be covered up by just trying harder.

We have seen him learn in the past though. He was an extremely up right runner when he first started with us, which as a small guy meant a lot of being dominated in hit ups. He's much better at making metres now and it's partly off the back of realizing he's not Shannon Boyd. Maybe this year his defense improves as well.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Timbo »

What's weaker - our spine or the Australian top 6?
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Brew »

Timbo wrote:What's weaker - our spine or the Australian top 6?
The Marsh brothers are on par with the Howell brothers.


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What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by greeneyed »

The Greenhouse has traditionally run a series of polls in the off season to determine the fans' view of the strongest possible top 17... irrespective of injuries. However, this year we're doing something a little different.

We're assessing the contenders for each position... and we hope you'll tell us what you think.

As well, we're inviting you to list your strongest possible team right here in this thread. Remember, this is a squad irrespective of injuries. Think of it this way: it is the team you want firing in the finals! Feel free to update your team as the squad is added to and the trials proceed.

The contenders - Props

Image

Josh Papalii
Sia Soliola
Ryan Sutton
Dunamis Lui
Emre Guler
Joseph Tapine
Luke Bateman
Royce Hunt
JJ Collins


The Raiders have lost two big boppers, Junior Paulo and Shannon Boyd, with the Green Machine deciding not to match some very big contract offers from other clubs. The Raiders have also parted ways with young prop Liam Knight, recently released to the Rabbitohs, early. Canberra is aiming for a more mobile forward pack in 2019 - with only one specialist prop, Ryan Sutton, recruited from Super League. Given the depth in this position, clearly some players, who have traditionally played at lock or in the second row, will have to make the the move up front.

After an indifferent start to the 2018 season, Josh Papalii was dropped to Mounties. One match in "reggies" was enough to kick start his year. After returning to firsts, Papalii shifted from the edge to the middle and made the lock position his own.

At season's end, he was named Meninga Medalist and Fans' Choice Player of the Year. He was no doubt Canberra's most damaging forward. He made an average of 126 metres from 14 runs per match, the only Raiders forward to break the 100 metre mark. He broke the 200 metres gained mark in the Round 10 match against the Sharks and the 150 metre mark in seven matches. Amongst the Raiders' forwards, he ranked equal third for try involvements, equal first for line breaks and second for tackle breaks, just marginally behind Joe Tapine.

He ranked sixth amongst NRL locks for total running metres, and was inside the top 10 NRL locks for average running metres and metres per carry. He was second only to Jason Taumalolo for tackle breaks (56) amongst NRL locks. In defence, Papalii averaged 27 tackles per game this year - up from the 22 he registered up in 2017 - ranking fourth amongst the Raiders forwards.

Given the depth in the backrow, particularly with the recruitment of second rower John Bateman, Papalii is a prime candidate for starting prop. He'll definitely be more mobile than Paulo or Boyd.

Sia Soliola is often referred to as the spiritual leader of the Canberra Raiders, such is his influence at Raiders HQ. He is now 32 years of age... and a couple of years ago, some Raiders fans were questioning whether father time was starting to catch up with him. No longer. When he joined the Raiders in 2015 - the year he won the Meninga Medal - he predominantly played as an edge forward. But in 2018, he spent much of the year in the middle, and arguably finished the season as the club's No. 1 prop.

He appeared in 24 matches in 2018, playing off the bench just three times. He started at prop in 12 matches, at second row in seven and lock and centre in one apiece. That contrasts starkly with 2017 when he started in just nine games - four at lock, four in the second row, and one at prop - and came off the bench in 10 matches.

In 2018, Soliola ranked second amongst the Raiders forwards for runs made and metres gained, behind Josh Papalii. In defence, he finished second to Elliott Whitehead for most tackles made at the club. For mine, he is the other leading candidate for starting prop.

Ryan Sutton has been recruited by the Raiders from English club, the Wigan Warriors. He's aged just 23, but already has 113 first class matches to his credit. He debuted in 2014 for Wigan, playing 71 games off the bench. He's also played 25 games as a starting prop, 10 at lock and the balance in the second row. In 2018, he averaged 96 metres gained per match, 7 metres per carry, and 28 tackes per match. For a prop, he scored a healthy six tries. A lot of pundits have Sutton starting for Canberra. But given he was regularly starting on the bench for Wigan in 2018, I suspect that's where he might start off in 2019. He looks like a very good prospect, and I'm excited to see him play in green. He'll certainly be in the top 17.

Dunamis Lui played just seven games for the Raiders in 2017, before suffering a season ending ACL injury in the clash with the Sea Eagles at Brookvale in Round 13. Lui's misfortune came at the worst possible time, because he had just started to find his groove in firsts. The 2018 season was a real contrast for the 28 year old journeyman. He made a full recovery from his knee injury, playing in all 24 games, with 12 as starting prop. In the process, he was rewarded with a three year contract extension with the Green Machine, keeping him at the club until the end of 2021.

By no means is Lui amongst the top props in the NRL. But he always works hard and gives it everything he's got. And he probably finished ahead of Junior Paulo and Shannon Boyd in terms of contribution to the Raiders' season. He'll be right in the mix for a bench prop spot in the coming season.

Emre Guler is the other player who'll be challenging for a bench prop spot. Guler, aged just 20, made his NRL debut in the Round 23 victory over the Sydney Roosters last year, and went on to play the final three matches of the season - all off the bench. The Junior Kangaroos and Blues representative looked right at home in first grade.

He averaged 75 running metres from around 10 runs and 17 tackles per match. His running metres per carry (7.8) ranked second lowest at the club, but his average metres gained were not far off players like Elliott Whitehead and Sia Soliola who spent much more time on the field. They exceeded that of fellow benchies Luke Bateman, Charlie Gubb and Liam Knight. His tackle efficiency rate (89 per cent) was not too bad, similar to the rates posted by Sia Soliola and Dunamis Lui. He posted no errors, no try causes and no line break causes. He is another exciting prospect, and I'd love to see him getting plenty of matches in the top 17.

Joe Tapine played all of his 16 matches in the second row in 2018, and he made a huge impact whenever on the field. He can play in the middle, and some Raiders fans have suggested they'd like him at prop. If he shifts, I suspect it is more likely he'll be in line for a move to lock, rather than prop.

Luke Bateman is another option, and he makes the most of his talent through good old fashioned hard work. He plays in the middle, but he's probably more a back rower. He'll need to lift if he's to keep a spot in the top 17, given the depth in the back row and the challenges that will be coming from some young players.

Royce Hunt is listed as a specialist prop, but he didn't play a single NRL game in 2018. He has one NRL appearance, but had about five minutes of game time in his 2017 debut for Canberra. JJ Collins is a new recruit from the Newcastle Knights on a two year deal. He's young, just 22, and has only played 15 NRL matches. He made his debut with the Tigers in 2016, before switching to the Knights in 2018. He played just two games for Newcastle last year. I suspect Hunt and Collins will spend most of their time in 2019 with Mounties.

So what are your views? Who should have the starting prop roles, and which props would you have on the bench? Next up, we'll assess the contenders for second row.

Josh Papalii's 2018 and statistics
Sia Soliola's 2018 and statistics
Dunamis Lui's 2018 and statistics
Emre Guler's 2018 and statistics
Joe Tapine's 2018 and statistics
Luke Bateman's 2018 and statistics
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by LimeGreenMachine »

Papalii has to make the move to frontrow. Sia will join him.
I'd have Sutton and Guler off the bench.
Sutton may take time to adapt so he may play limited minutes.
Lui and Murchie to fight out the other bench spot.

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Matt »

Yes, the top 5 on that list should be our prop rotation. As versatility is kept with Papa, Soliola and of Havili as the utility.

I think Papa starts with Sia or Lui to begin with. Then Guler or Sutton might work their way into that role by seasons end.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Woodgers »

My side is almost the same as Zim's side with Lui instead of Luke Bateman. Having seen Bateman in the flesh it borders on negligent to let a bloke that size play as a forward in the middle of an NRL field hitting the ball up at pace. It would be safer if Ricky sat him in an enclosed car in 45 degree heat watching training.

1. Jack Wighton
2. Nick Cotric
3. Jarrod Croker
4. Joey Leilua
5. Michael Oldfield
6. Aidan Sezer
7. Sam Williams
8. Sia Soliola
9. Josh Hodgson
10. Josh Papalii
11. John Bateman
12. Elliot Whitehead
13. Joseph Tapine

14. Siliva Havili
15. Dunamis Lui
16. Ryan Sutton
17. Emre Guler
We continue to **** about with blokes that are part of some fraternity. It's infuriating.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by edwahu »

Matt wrote: January 8, 2019, 6:21 pm Yes, the top 5 on that list should be our prop rotation. As versatility is kept with Papa, Soliola and of Havili as the utility.

I think Papa starts with Sia or Lui to begin with. Then Guler or Sutton might work their way into that role by seasons end.
Who plays lock?
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Matt »

edwahu wrote: January 10, 2019, 9:27 am
Matt wrote: January 8, 2019, 6:21 pm Yes, the top 5 on that list should be our prop rotation. As versatility is kept with Papa, Soliola and of Havili as the utility.

I think Papa starts with Sia or Lui to begin with. Then Guler or Sutton might work their way into that role by seasons end.
Who plays lock?
I think it should be Tarpz, as he is the biggest body, and locks tend to be mobile props these days. However, I think Ricky will go with Whitey.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by thedevilingreen »

Now please feel free to tell me I'm crazy but I think swapping Cotric and Oldfield over could work well. Croker has proved he can work with anyone and I think Joey could do we the defensive help that Cotric can provide

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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Terrible planning moving Paps in to the front row at this stage of his career. He'll be wasted there, successful teams stack their front row with reliable journeyman, not their best talents.

There isn't really any other option for us unfortunately.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by edwahu »

I don't think that's true at all. I wouldn't call SST, JWH, Bromwich, Fifita, RCG, Graham, Vaughan and the Burgesses reliable journeymen.

He really should be lock anyway, so there isn't that big a leap.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

edwahu wrote: January 10, 2019, 11:28 am I don't think that's true at all. I wouldn't call SST, JWH, Bromwich, Fifita, RCG, Graham, Vaughan and the Burgesses reliable journeymen.

He really should be lock anyway, so there isn't that big a leap.
I agree on Fifita and Sam Burgess, top quality props that consistently influence matches on the biggest stage. SST actually doesn't ring any bells for me as an acronym :lol:

The point of difference I see between the Roosters/Sharks/Storm and us is that I historically rate their back row combinations highly. I think our back row rotation drops off significantly once it loses Paps as he's a class or two above the others (as much as I love Whitehead it's true).

There is still a difference at lock as I can see him getting through 70 - 80 minutes there. Surely he'll be down to playing 50 minutes as part of the prop rotation.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by zim »

thedevilingreen wrote: January 10, 2019, 11:06 am Now please feel free to tell me I'm crazy but I think swapping Cotric and Oldfield over could work well. Croker has proved he can work with anyone and I think Joey could do we the defensive help that Cotric can provide
I considered this too but when Rapana comes back you'd be breaking up that Leipana combo.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by Woodgers »

The issue we have is the stacked backrow with J.Bateman now here. To fit everyone in we're finding the player most able to transfer to the 8/10 to fit the best pack in and that's Papa out of the current 11/12/13. If things start poorly we can reassess but surely we have to go into round 1 this way (assuming everyone is fit). Sutton might be alright but I suggest it will take him half the season at least to find the pace and level, he needs to be eased in.

We do this a lot at the Raiders. Papa might be best used at lock or even on the edge but we need him elsewhere. Likewise most people believe that Jack's best position is centres but we are serviceable there so we need him in a different spot and he's likely to play 2 other positions before his best one. Cotric is doing well as a winger but i'd suggest if he isn't already, he'd be a better left centre than Croker but it's unlikely we'll swap the 2 and squeeze him into his best position. Due to our recruitment issues we actually struggle to play some of our talent in their best positions. It is what it is I guess.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by RTW »

thedevilingreen wrote:Now please feel free to tell me I'm crazy but I think swapping Cotric and Oldfield over could work well. Croker has proved he can work with anyone and I think Joey could do we the defensive help that Cotric can provide

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What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by greeneyed »

The Greenhouse has traditionally run a series of polls in the off season to determine the fans' view of the strongest possible top 17... irrespective of injuries. However, this year we're doing something a little different.

We're assessing the contenders for each position... and we hope you'll tell us what you think.

As well, we're inviting you to list your strongest possible team right here in this thread. Remember, this is a squad irrespective of injuries. Think of it this way: it is the team you want firing in the finals! Feel free to update your team as the squad is added to and the trials proceed.

The contenders - Second rowers

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Elliott Whitehead
Joseph Tapine
John Bateman
Jack Murchie
Hudson Young
Josh Papalii
Sia Soliola
Siliva Havili
Luke Bateman


The Raiders almost have an embarrassment of riches in the second row. The incumbents, Elliott Whitehead and Joe Tapine, are international representatives, while the Raiders have also signed England back rower John Bateman from the Wigan Warriors. There are players like Josh Papalii and Sia Soliola - who've now moved to the middle - who can play second row. Luke Bateman and Siliva Havili can also cover the second row. And there are some up and comers like Jack Murchie and Hudson Young providing good depth.

But given that there are three top line contenders for two second row spots, who will the starting spots... and who might be forced to lock or the bench?

Elliott Whitehead finished 2018 on a high, one of the candidates for the Golden Boot Award for best international player of the year - and many pundits would say he was unfortunate to miss out on the award. Since the 2017 World Cup, there's no doubt he's been one of England's very best players.

He appeared in all 24 Raiders games in 2018, starting 19 of them in the second row. He also started twice at lock, once at centre, and once on the wing. The fact that the forward can shift to the backs and handle the job well says a lot about Whitehead's skills and versatility.

Amongst the Raiders forwards, he was the top try scorer of the year (10), and ranked equal first for total try involvements (16) alongside Josh Hodgson. He doubled his try scoring tally on that of 2017. Whitehead ranked equal first (with Gavin Cooper) for try involvements amongst his NRL second row peers.

Whitehead was the Raiders top tackler (641), and ranked third for average tackles per match, behind Josh Hodgson and Joe Tapine. He reduced his missed tackle count in 2018, but still missed more tackles (56) than any Raiders player. His tackle efficiency rate (87 per cent) was not up with the top second rowers he ranked equal third for try causes amongst NRL second rowers. His error rate is relatively low, but he conceded 22 penalties. That was the most penalties conceded at the Raiders, and only Angus Crichton and Sam Burgess conceded more penalties amongst his second row peers. He'll probably want to work on those aspects of his game - but let's not nit pick to much. He's one of the game's premier second rowers.

Joe Tapine also finished the year on the international stage, but he didn't make the same splash as Whitehead. He played in two of New Zealand's three Tests against England off the bench. The fact he was still coming back from injury no doubt impacted his chances with the Kiwis.

Tapine made 16 appearances for the Raiders in 2018, starting in the second row in all of those matches. It is the fewest number of games he's played in a season since joining the Raiders in 2016, missing four matches through suspension and four through injury. He dislocated his thumb in the Round 1 clash with the Titans and missed the next two games. He then broke his thumb in the Round 23 win over the Roosters, ruling him out for the remainder of the season. He was suspended twice, first for a shoulder charge on Matt Dufty in the Round 11 match against the Dragons at Mudgee (two weeks). Then in Round 17, he was charged for a lifting tackle on the Bulldogs' Michael Lichaa, missing a further two weeks.

But when on the field, Tapine was a very strong performer. Tapine almost became an 80 minute player in the 2018 season, averaging 77 minutes per match, compared with just over 50 minutes in 2017. Amongst the Raiders' forwards, he ranked first for tackle breaks, equal first for line breaks, equal second for offloads, equal third for total try involvements and fourth for average metres gained. Of more concern was that he ranked first amongst the Raiders forwards for try causes (12) and line break causes (19). His error rate was low, but he conceded 18 penalties, ranking behind only Elliott Whitehead (22 penalties conceded) at the club.

Amongst his second row peers, Tapine was top five for tackle breaks, and was second only to Jason Taumalolo for tackle breaks per match. He also ranked equal fourth amongst NRL second rowers for average line breaks per match.

Clearly, there are some things for Tapine to work on, discipline being one of them. While some Raiders fans believe he's been harshly treated by the match review committee in the past, he'll need to make sure he avoids their attention in 2019. However, he is on steep upward trajectory in terms of his performances on field. He still young for a forward, and has huge potential. I think he can become one of the very best second rowers in the game... but some Raiders fans think he might shift to lock, allowing the Raiders' new English recruit to play on the edge.

John Bateman has played 181 matches for Bradford, Wigan and England. He's versatile and can handle the back row and centre. The bulk of his matches, however, 109 of them, have been played in the second row. It is probably his best role - though he says like to start at "back row, loose forward" or lock with the Raiders. He made 25 appearances for Wigan in 2018, scoring four tries, making eight clean breaks, and producing 64 offloads and three try assists. He averaged 126 metres gained per match and just over seven metres per carry. He made almost five tackle breaks per match. He averaged 25 tackles and missed just under two tackles per game.

Bateman was a leading contender for the Man of Steel - and was voted Super League's best player by the readers of a leading rugby league magazine. He's an impressive player coming off a premiership winning season with Wigan. I've little doubt he'll make as big an impression on the NRL as Josh Hodgson and Elliott Whitehead have.



So what are your views? Who should have the starting second row roles? Which back rowers would you have on the bench? Next up, we'll assess the contenders for lock.

Elliott Whitehead's 2018 and statistics
Joe Tapine's 2018 and statistics
Jack Murchie's 2018 and statistics
Josh Papalii's 2018 and statistics
Sia Soliola's 2018 and statistics
Siliva Havili's 2018 and statistics
Luke Bateman's 2018 and statistics
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

Post by LimeGreenMachine »

3 goes into 3.

Tapine , Whitehead and J.Bateman will fill the backrow roles.
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