What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2019 line up?

[Northern Raider]

I'm not keen on Wighton at 5/8. He only just started to look like he had a handle on fullback before his late night shenanigans saw him miss the 2nd half of the season. Shifting him now could see him go back to square 1.

On the flip side I think our season is cooked already of we have Sezer/Williams halves combo. Need to do something there and Wighton shift is the only real option.

It's a risky move but maybe one of necessity.

[Sid]

If Wighton moves to 6, do you think he'll be left side or right side?

He seems to look more natural when he chimed in at the left side at fullback, however
I think Sticky prefers left foot kicker on the left hand side of the field and right foot kicker on the right hand side of the field, so I think Wighton will start on the right hand side defending next to Leilua rather than Croker

[Wiki Special]

If Wighton moves to 6, do you think he'll be left side or right side?

He is much better on the left. But depending on who we play at fullback, would not surprise me if Sezer plays both sides with a dual fullback attacking setup (much like when Inglis played 6 for the Storm).

[kiwi raider]

If Wighton moves to 6, do you think he'll be left side or right side?

He is much better on the left. But depending on who we play at fullback, would not surprise me if Sezer plays both sides with a dual fullback attacking setup (much like when Inglis played 6 for the Storm).

Wighton has to Play left imo, the good stuff he does on those sweep plays from fullback are 90% of the time down the left, I’d put whitehead on his side also to make up for jacks lack of natural ball playing and like you say have Jack playing wide and deep just like a second fullback. I reckon if we got the structure right then Wightons role is very similar to how he plays at fullback

[Botman]

Yeah if Wighton is playing in the halves, he needs to be LH.
But i often wonder what is preventing us from doing some a little bit different, other than it's never been really done before.

Let's assume Wighton plays 5/8th and it's Cotric at fullback... why cant we set up an attacking system where Sezer plays both sides in attack, with Wighton playing a traditional fullback role as second receiver, and Cotric's role in attack to be someone who follows the ball, looking for offloads, quick play the balls and taking advantage of his strengths in tackle breaking and disjointed defensive lines.

It would allow us to take advantage of Wighton's ball playing at a fullback the way he does now, it would allow us to stack extra numbers where ever the ball is going (because we're going to have cotric sniffing around the ball constantly), our attacking structure remains largely the same except for our fullback, improves our defensive structure.

Would require Cotric, Wighton and Sezer to all be in their best conditioning though.
Not sure if this is a a great idea or the next 1 marker policy, but i keep thinking about this and wondering why i cant work.

[Wiki Special]

Yeah if Wighton is playing in the halves, he needs to be LH.
But i often wonder what is preventing us from doing some a little bit different, other than it's never been really done before.

Let's assume Wighton plays 5/8th and it's Cotric at fullback... why cant we set up an attacking system where Sezer plays both sides in attack, with Wighton playing a traditional fullback role as second receiver, and Cotric's role in attack to be someone who follows the ball, looking for offloads, quick play the balls and taking advantage of his strengths in tackle breaking and disjointed defensive lines.

It would allow us to take advantage of Wighton's ball playing at a fullback the way he does now, it would allow us to stack extra numbers where ever the ball is going (because we're going to have cotric sniffing around the ball constantly), our attacking structure remains largely the same except for our fullback, improves our defensive structure.

Would require Cotric, Wighton and Sezer to all be in their best conditioning though.
Not sure if this is a a great idea or the next 1 marker policy, but i keep thinking about this and wondering why i cant work.

While I have soured slightly on Cotric at fullback, this is similar to my thoughts after the Bulldogs game last year.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32684&p=1578255&hil ... c#p1578255

[greeneyed]

The Greenhouse has traditionally run a series of polls in the off season to determine the fans' view of the strongest possible top 17... irrespective of injuries. However, this year we're doing something a little different.

We're assessing the contenders for each position... and we hope you'll tell us what you think.

As well, we're inviting you to list your strongest possible team right here in this thread. Remember, this is a squad irrespective of injuries. Think of it this way: it is the team you want firing in the finals! Feel free to update your team as the squad is added to and the trials proceed.

The contenders - Hooker



Josh Hodgson
Siliva Havili
Ata Hingano
Kyle Patterson

There is really only one choice for the Raiders starting hooker in 2019 - Josh Hodgson. He's amongst the top three hookers in the world. He suffered an ACL injury in the World Cup semi final between England and Tonga in late November 2017 - and immediately, the Raiders' hopes for the 2018 season took a nose dive. He returned to the field in Round 15 last year in the match up with the Wests Tigers at Canberra Stadium and made an immediate impact.



Despite playing limited matches, he was equal fifth at the Raiders for total try involvements and first for try assists in 2018. No NRL hooker produced more try assists, and he ranked third for total try involvements behind Cameron Smith and Damien Cook. He ranked first amongst NRL hookers for total try involvements (1.5) and line break assists (0.9) per match. Those are insane numbers. He also does a huge amount of work in defence and he topped the tackle count per match at the Raiders last season.



With the season ending injury to Jarrod Croker, Hodgson took over the captaincy in the Round 19 match against the Sharks last year - and he's now been named Canberra's co-captain, with Croker, for 2019. If he plays 24 games this year, the Green Machine should have a much better season than 2018.

While there is no doubt about who will take the starting hooker role, there's a little more room for discussion about what the Raiders might do should Hodgson be unavailable through injury or suspension.

The most likely substitute is Siliva Havili, who filled in admirably for Hodgson in the first 14 rounds last season. In 2018, he ranked equal third for total try involvements and fifth for total points scored amongst the Raiders forwards. In addition, he was equal fourth for line breaks and third for tackle breaks amongst the forwards. In defence, his tackle efficiency rate (91 per cent) was in the top three players at the Raiders. He was also top five for total tackles made at the club, while missing an average of just one per match. He had just four try causes, and was a very tidy player in terms of errors and penalties conceded. But there is not a lot of depth at hooker beyond Havili.

Ata Hingano was the main player who came off the bench when Havili needed a spell at dummy half. But while he can play at hooker, he really is best suited to the halves. He'll also miss much of the first half of the season with a shoulder injury. The only other option at hooker/utility for the Raiders is Kyle Patterson, but as a development player, he could only be called on in the event of a serious injury crisis.

The other issue is what the Raiders might do with the hooker/utility role on the bench. Josh Hodgson is now an 80 minute player. He played for 46 minutes in his comeback game against the Tigers in 2018, but played every minute of every subsequent match. Havili mostly played off the bench in the second half of last season, but he was predominantly used as a back rower - and insurance in the event of a Hodgson injury. Will we see that strategy replicated in 2019?

What are your views? Tomorrow, we'll assess the contenders at centre.

Josh Hodgson's 2018 and statistics
Siliva Havili's 2018 and statistics
Ata Hingano's 2018 and statistics

[Northern Raider]

Havili to start at hooker. Hingano on the bench as backup. Hodgo is a bum.

[dubby]

Jack has trained at 6 during the off season, but is that just a reacquantance thing? In case Sammy goes down and until Hingano is fully fit?

Or is ricky thinking long term?

Jack was very good at fullback last season. And he's developed a very good passing game out there, but he can't kick well consistently

This really is a bloody conundrum.

The biggest benefit to playing Jack at 6 is defence. But with changes to our pack, hopefully improving our mobility, will he be required at 6?

Injury to key players has stuffed us the past 2 years now. Losing Hodgo was huge, now we've lost our best winger and a depth half......

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[RTW]

If losing a winger and depth half is our excuse for 2019 then it is going to be an even longer season then I had already imagined.


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[T_R]

Unless we can recruit a fullback, meaning we can line up

1/ New guy
6/ Wighton
7/ Sezer
9/ Hodgson

then I'm going for

1/ Wighton
6/ Sezer
7/ Hodgson
9/ Havili

So, I disagree completely that there is only one choice for the #9. Hodgson is without a doubt the best hooking option in the club, but I think he's probably the best halves option, too, and we have more cover at nine than we do at seven.

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

[Matt]

NR is havin' a laugh. Dubz raises some interesting points. And while im sure TR has put plenty of thought into that post, his final statement is wrong.

There is ONLY 1 choice at 9, its Hodgson. Storm played FBs in the halves most of last yr and made the GF - yes, Storm are a different story, extra ranting, Bellyache is the coach, Cam Smith is the GOAT, blah blah blah... Like the Storm, our attack is run from the base of the ruck. You dont move Hodgson, you just dont (BTW, we tried Hodgson at 7 when he 1st got here, didnt work even as an injury change).

[edwahu]

Unless we can recruit a fullback, meaning we can line up

1/ New guy
6/ Wighton
7/ Sezer
9/ Hodgson

then I'm going for

1/ Wighton
6/ Sezer
7/ Hodgson
9/ Havili

So, I disagree completely that there is only one choice for the #9. Hodgson is without a doubt the best hooking option in the club, but I think he's probably the best halves option, too, and we have more cover at nine than we do at seven.

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

Who comes on when Havili is gassed?

[greeneyed]

Unless we can recruit a fullback, meaning we can line up

1/ New guy
6/ Wighton
7/ Sezer
9/ Hodgson

then I'm going for

1/ Wighton
6/ Sezer
7/ Hodgson
9/ Havili

So, I disagree completely that there is only one choice for the #9. Hodgson is without a doubt the best hooking option in the club, but I think he's probably the best halves option, too, and we have more cover at nine than we do at seven.

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

Who comes on when Havili is gassed?

I think that highlights how little depth we have at hooker. I'd have thought you want three players who can handle first grade at hooker... but we don't have anyone below Havili really.

[Matt]

Unless we can recruit a fullback, meaning we can line up

1/ New guy
6/ Wighton
7/ Sezer
9/ Hodgson

then I'm going for

1/ Wighton
6/ Sezer
7/ Hodgson
9/ Havili

So, I disagree completely that there is only one choice for the #9. Hodgson is without a doubt the best hooking option in the club, but I think he's probably the best halves option, too, and we have more cover at nine than we do at seven.

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

Who comes on when Havili is gassed?

I think that highlights how little depth we have at hooker. I'd have thought you want three players who can handle first grade at hooker... but we don't have anyone below Havili really.

Hingano and Luke Bateman are 3 and 4. We are sweet

[RTW]

Sezer at 9 worked well according to Stuart.


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[Botman]

Yeah I can see what TR is going for with Hodgson in the halves but I think weakening the far more important position of hooker with, honestly, below average FG players is not the way to go

[T_R]

Unless we can recruit a fullback, meaning we can line up

1/ New guy
6/ Wighton
7/ Sezer
9/ Hodgson

then I'm going for

1/ Wighton
6/ Sezer
7/ Hodgson
9/ Havili

So, I disagree completely that there is only one choice for the #9. Hodgson is without a doubt the best hooking option in the club, but I think he's probably the best halves option, too, and we have more cover at nine than we do at seven.

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

Who comes on when Havili is gassed?

I dunno. I'm the big picture guy. Stop bogging me down with details.

Hodgson moves to hooker and Hingano comes into the halves against tiring opposition.

I'm honestly shocked not to have been offered a coaching role on the back of this.

[RedRaider]

I would definitely have one of the best No 9s in the World playing at 9. Hodgo at Hooker for mine.

[greeneyed]

I love how we can get a debate on The Greenhouse about whether Josh Hodgson should play at No. 9 in 2019.

[Botman]

Unless we can recruit a fullback, meaning we can line up

1/ New guy
6/ Wighton
7/ Sezer
9/ Hodgson

then I'm going for

1/ Wighton
6/ Sezer
7/ Hodgson
9/ Havili

So, I disagree completely that there is only one choice for the #9. Hodgson is without a doubt the best hooking option in the club, but I think he's probably the best halves option, too, and we have more cover at nine than we do at seven.

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

Who comes on when Havili is gassed?

I dunno. I'm the big picture guy. Stop bogging me down with details.

Hodgson moves to hooker and Hingano comes into the halves against tiring opposition.

I'm honestly shocked not to have been offered a coaching role on the back of this.

I’d sooner have you run this club than our idiot coach. So you can go to the club with that ringing endorsement

[T_R]

I love how we can get a debate on The Greenhouse about whether Josh Hodgson should play at No. 9 in 2019.

Im not saying he's not the best #9. What I am saying is that he's also the best playmaker by the length of the straight, and conventional wisdon would then have him at half.

If you ever watched him in the UK, by the way, he spent roughly 30-40% of most games playing at #7.

[greeneyed]

Don't worry... I'm genuinely loving it! I love the discussion, I love the debate. It shows what a great site we have.

[greeneyed]

This one is a bit of a laugh for you all: https://www.5thtackle.com/2018/12/31/wh ... LGVyTfnpKY

If this is the starting forward pack, I'll eat my hat!

8. Dunamis Lui, 9. Josh Hodgson, 10. Luke Bateman, 11. Joseph Tapine,12. Elliot Whitehead, 13. Josh Papalii

[Rick]

1. Wighton
2. Rapana
3. Cotric
4. BJ
5. Oldfield
6. Croker
7. Seizer
8. Papali
9. Hodgson
10. Lui
11. J Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Havali
15. Sia
16. Sutton
17. Guler



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[Sid]

I’m not sure why a lot of people have Sutton going from bench ESL prop to starting NRL prop round 1

[greeneyed]

I’m not sure why a lot of people have Sutton going from bench ESL prop to starting NRL prop round 1

Even stranger is that those people are mostly selecting John Bateman on the bench.

[BJ]

I’m not sure why a lot of people have Sutton going from bench ESL prop to starting NRL prop round 1

What? Are you kidding? I’d penciled him in as an immortal and selected him to play every position in the World Superstars 13.

[T_R]

I’m not sure why a lot of people have Sutton going from bench ESL prop to starting NRL prop round 1

I imagine that it would be the crippling lack of alternative options.

[Dusty]

I have him there to split Papalii and Soliola. Could also be Lui to do that but I am hoping Sutton will be a better option.

Hope is my reasoning

And yes, he starts mainly in the bench for Wigan, but he plays lots of minutes.
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[RTW]

I have him there to split Papalii and Soliola. Could also be Lui to do that but I am hoping Sutton will be a better option.

Hope is my reasoning

And yes, he starts mainly in the bench for Wigan, but he plays lots of minutes.
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Agree that you have to split Papa and Sia. I would think Lui gets the nod round 1 but as you said let’s hope that Sutton has earned a start before to long.


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[greeneyed]

The Greenhouse has traditionally run a series of polls in the off season to determine the fans' view of the strongest possible top 17... irrespective of injuries. However, this year we're doing something a little different.

We're assessing the contenders for each position... and we hope you'll tell us what you think.

As well, we're inviting you to list your strongest possible team right here in this thread. Remember, this is a squad irrespective of injuries. Think of it this way: it is the team you want firing in the finals! Feel free to update your team as the squad is added to and the trials proceed.

The contenders - Centres



Jarrod Croker
Joey Leilua
Jack Wighton
Nick Cotric
John Bateman
Michael Oldfield
Sebastian Kris

Jarrod Croker and Joey Leilua are the Raiders incumbent centres - and there's virtually no doubt that is where they'll line up in 2019.

2018 was the first season in Croker's career in which he made less than 21 appearances for the Canberra Raiders. He has now played 230 games for the Green Machine, overtaking Alan Tongue, Ruben Wiki and Steve Walters for most matches at the club. He's now the fourth most capped Raider of all time. He is seven tries away from becoming the Raiders' highest try scorer of all time. He is already the top Raiders' point scorer of all time.

His endurance, the limited number of matches lost to injury, are things which have helped him set those milestones. But injury cost him in 2018, suffering a season ending injury in the 30th minute of the Round 18 victory over the Cowboys. He dislocated his knee cap for the second time, after first suffering that injury in the All Stars match in the lead up to the 2017 season. He successfully had surgery to correct the problem, with the aim of reducing the chance of a recurrence - and will be right to go in Round 1 in 2019.

Croker ended up playing 17 matches in 2018, scoring seven tries, compared with nine in 2017 and 18 in 2016. He was the top point scorer in the NRL in 2012, 2015 and 2016, but ranked eighth in 2018, posting a still healthy 154 points. He ranked fourth in the NRL for average points per match. Croker's defence has often been criticised, but that has improved significantly. His tackle efficiency rate lifted to 80 per cent in 2018 (78 per cent in 2017). He was well down the list of NRL centres for try causes per match (at 0.4 per match) - and that rate fell in 2018.

He'll share the captaincy role in 2019 with hooker Josh Hodgson. Some fans would like to see Croker shift him to the wing, with Nick Cotric and Jack Wighton seen as centre options. Wighton started his career as an outside back, and has played 21 matches at centre and 14 on the wing. Some still see centre as his best position - and there were some recent reports that the Newcastle Knights wanted to recruit him to play in that position. It was suggested Wighton saw centre as his best opportunity to play State of Origin. However, there is no chance the Raiders will be releasing him - and it is most likely he'll continue at fullback or shift to five eighth. Nick Cotric has been outstanding on the wing in his first two seasons in the NRL. He has a big body, breaks tackles, breaks the line and scores tries. He was second in the NRL for tackle breaks (over five per match) in 2018, just behind James Tedesco, and fourth for line breaks (22). Some fans would like to see him move closer to the action. Cotric would no doubt make a success of centre, but personally, I can't see Croker being shifted to the flank.

Joey Leilua was named Dally M Centre of the Year in 2018. While that award surprised many, there is no doubt that Leilua is a very damaging attacking player. He scored 14 tries, up on the 10 he scored in 2017. That put him amongst the top 10 try scorers in the NRL and equal second amongst NRL centres. He was also the top try scorer at the Raiders. He ranked inside the top 15 players in the NRL for tackle breaks - and was second only to Latrell Mitchell amongst NRL centres.



Leilua played a more controlled style in 2018. So while he was perhaps not as spectacular as he can be, he was probably more effective as a result. His error rate per match (just under one per game) was well down the list of NRL centres. His discipline also improved last season. After finishing top 10 in the league for penalties conceded in 2017, he was nowhere near the top 10 last season, finishing well behind the most penalised player in the NRL (Andrew Fifita at 35).

Defence continued to be an issue for Leilua last year. There were particular communication problems whenever he played alongside Blake Austin, with opposition teams targeting that weak point in the Raiders' line. He finished second behind Austin for total try causes at the Raiders in 2018, and was amongst the top 15 players in the NRL for tries conceded. However there's no doubt he looks better in defence when not playing alongside Austin - and that won't be an issue in 2019.

What is the depth looking like? New recruit from England, John Bateman can certainly handle the position. He's played 36 matches at centre for Wigan - of his total 167 Super League matches. He's also played 11 of his 16 international matches for England at centre. He's now much more likely than Elliott Whitehead to step into a hole created by injury in the role. However, back rower is his best spot.



Michael Oldfield is primarily a winger, but he has played five of his 39 NRL games at centre - including three matches towards the end of 2018, covering for an injured Jarrod Croker. Since joining the Green Machine, he's performed pretty well when called upon - scoring a hat trick against the Cowboys and a double against the Rabbitohs. Given the injury to Jordan Rapana, he's shaping as a starting winger in the first half of 2019 - barring additional recruitment.

Sebastian Kris has joined the Raiders top 30 list - but is still aged just 19. He has huge potential - and at times he has looked unstoppable in lower grades. He was promoted from Jersey Flegg to the Mounties NSW Premiership team towards the end of last year - playing eight games at centre, and one on the wing. He's still handling the challenge of playing against men every week. But he's certainly a player to watch.

So are Croker and Leilua certainties for the starting centres in 2019? Tell us your views. Tomorrow, we'll assess the contenders for the wing.

Jarrod Croker's 2018 and statistics
Joey Leilua's 2018 and statistics
Jack Wighton's 2018 and statistics
Nick Cotric's 2018 and statistics
Michael Oldfield's 2018 and statistics

[dubby]

Yeah I can see what TR is going for with Hodgson in the halves but I think weakening the far more important position of hooker with, honestly, below average FG players is not the way to go

Spot on.


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[LP Raider]

I'm warming to the idea of Wighton at 5/8, I think it's a far better idea strengthening the front line D.
I can't remember many occasions when he saved a try covering at fullback unless it was outside the red zone. He can play the same sweeping role in attack and as for rucking it out I thing we're better off with our wingers.
When Rapana comes back I'd be more than happy with him Cotric and Oldfield at the back, those 3 can fight it out for the #1.

[Matt]

We have good options in the centres, but IMO, unless we get someone else to change one of our spine positions, its BJ and Croker.