TPAs per club “revealed”

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edwahu

TPAs per club “revealed”

Post by edwahu »

TPAs will finally be released and the Telegraph has revealed them early

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https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... 9180cee006

The Broncos and Storm obviously have an advantage that wouldve been ridiculous under the last tv deals cap but its also clear these are no longer an excuse we can use. We have more than the Roosters.
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Re: TPAs per club to be released

Post by Peter »

So the Storm were 200k over the limit?
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by greeneyed »

If we believe the Roosters are on $200,000... then the NRL truly does believe in Santa Claus! It's the season!
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by greeneyed »

Why don't we have the 2018 numbers?
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edwahu

Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by edwahu »

greeneyed wrote: December 13, 2018, 9:25 pm Why don't we have the 2018 numbers?
The article says they will be released at the same time, not sure if the article behind the paywall has another chart, I got it elsewhere.
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by Lui_Bon »

Wait what is this graph showing? To summarise:

Does the positioning of the little yellow bubble with "2017" in it mean anything? If it does, what does the height of the bars in the bar graph mean? If the bubble doesn't signify anything, what on earth is the Daily Telegraph trying to convey?

The alleged key suggest there are 94 players benefiting from 205 agreements, 89% of which are for plain old cash which is 89% of the total 2017 TPA haul of $4.2 million dollars, or cash totalling $3.7 million. Dunno what the other half a million bucks is made up of - Coles vouchers?

The average agreement is $264k. Now I multiply that by 205 (the number of agreements) and I get 54.1 million dollars. Rather more than the 4.2 million the graph's alleged metadata claims. Ok, I may have not fully interpreted this gibberish, but even if the Daily Telegraph is trying to say that the average TPA for a PLAYER (one of the lucky 94 who have one) is $264k - let me repeat that, two hundred and sixty-four thousand dollars - the total is still $24.8 million (94 multiplied by $264k).

I would suggest that the article reveals the Daily Telegraph is unlikely to be allowed to attend high school.


Edit, ok so the Telegraph article says: "The Daily Telegraph obtained a first look of the 2018 and 2017 third-party values of every club, which will be made public today." That might suggest that the bar graph columns are for 2018, and they've whacked in the 2017 number (in a little yellow balloon instead of a line) for comparison. If that's the case, and I'm having to guess because they ain't a reputable statistical record, all that shows is that the Broncos, Storm and to a lesser extent the Cowboys are way up on their 2017 deals, and Manly and the Tigers, and particularly the Panthers, have dropped off. The Roosters are somewhat unbelievably still up to about $180k in their premiership year from around nothing in the previous one. Obviously all good...

The numbers are still hazy as all get out.
Last edited by Lui_Bon on December 13, 2018, 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by LastRaider »

I can definitely tell you those numbers are wrong. Especially the roosters


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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by edwahu »

greeneyed wrote: December 13, 2018, 9:24 pm If we believe the Roosters are on $200,000... then the NRL truly does believe in Santa Claus! It's the season!
We wanted these numbers for years, if we are just going to not accept them we couldve saved a heap of time and whingeing and stuck to the brown paper bag angle all along.
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by edwahu »

LastRaider wrote: December 13, 2018, 9:43 pm I can definitely tell you those numbers are wrong. Especially the roosters


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How do you know?
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by edwahu »

Lui_Bon wrote: December 13, 2018, 9:42 pm Wait what is this graph showing? To summarise:

Does the positioning of the little yellow bubble with "2017" in it mean anything? If it does, what does the height of the bars in the bar graph mean? If the bubble doesn't signify anything, what on earth is the Daily Telegraph trying to convey?

The alleged key suggest there are 94 players benefiting from 205 agreements, 89% of which are for plain old cash which is 89% of the total 2017 TPA haul of $4.2 million dollars, or cash totalling $3.7 million. Dunno what the other half a million bucks is made up of - Coles vouchers?

The average agreement is $264k. Now I multiply that by 205 (the number of agreements) and I get 54.1 million dollars. Rather more than the 4.2 million the graph's alleged metadata claims. Ok, I may have not fully interpreted this gibberish, but even if the Daily Telegraph is trying to say that the average TPA for a PLAYER (one of the lucky 94 who have one) is $264k - let me repeat that, two hundred and sixty-four thousand dollars - the total is still $24.8 million (94 multiplied by $264k).

I would suggest that the article reveals the Daily Telegraph is unlikely to be allowed to attend high school.


Edit, ok so the Telegraph article says: "The Daily Telegraph obtained a first look of the 2018 and 2017 third-party values of every club, which will be made public today." That might suggest that the bar graph columns are for 2018, and they've whacked in the 2017 number (in a little yellow balloon instead of a line) for comparison. If that's the case, and I'm having to guess because they ain't a reputable statistical record, all that shows is that the Broncos, Storm and to a lesser extent the Cowboys are way up on their 2017 deals, and Manly and the Tigers, and particularly the Panthers, have dropped off. The Roosters are somewhat unbelievably still up to about $180k in their premiership year from around nothing in the previous one. Obviously all good...

The numbers are still hazy as all get out.
Fair call, it is a terrible graph.

Looks like Don doubled our TPAs this year though. If this trend continues, we should have 6.4m in TPAs by 2023.
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by greeneyed »

Here is the full Daily Telegraph story: https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... 9180cee006

For the life of me, I do not understand how NRL figures like these have been leaked to The Daily Telegraph before they are published by the NRL. How does an NRL that is interested in full transparency and fairness by releasing these figures leak them to one media organisation in advance of their release?

The NRL seems to have leaked this statement from Nick Weeks of the NRL at the same time the figures were leaked to The Daily Telegraph:

“I think the data we have illustrates clearly that the volume of third-party that exists across the game aren’t as great as some people believe.

“This has been an area that created a lot of attention among fans, among the media and a lot of debate around it is inaccurate.

“So we think that by providing more transparency and accurate information, it will take some of the heat out of the debate and that will only improve our compliance with the salary cap rules.’’

Is the NRL trying to shape the debate before tomorrow?

Well I hate to disabuse Mr Weeks of the NRL. What the figures show is a HUGE loophole for some clubs... as we've always known. There's no level playing field. The salary cap is a joke.

It takes no heat our of the TPA and salary cap debate. It just confirms what we've always known.
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by The Nickman »

Haha you guys need to learn how to read graphs. That graph clearly shows both the 2018 AND 2017 figures


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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by greeneyed »

The Nickman wrote: December 13, 2018, 10:09 pm Haha you guys need to learn how to read graphs. That graph clearly shows both the 2018 AND 2017 figures


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No it doesn't, that's the worst graph in history. And I've read the original article.
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by edwahu »

It clearly shows that TPAs are not a a pre-requisite or even a major influence on success. The advantage is not even a rep players salary anymore, outside of the storm.

I also think given TPAs have dropped since 2016 it shows that the advantage was huge under the old cap and that we had the right to whinge regarding Milfords deal in particular.
Last edited by edwahu on December 13, 2018, 10:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by T_R »

edwahu wrote:It clearly shows that TPAs are not a a pre-requisite or even a major influence on success. The advantage is not even a rep players salary outside of the storm.
Yeah. Precisely.

The figures are crap, which in the case of at least one club, I know for a fact.
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by greeneyed »

In any case, looks like the graph is showing the 2018 figures (primarily). And guess what? There's a HUGE LOOPHOLE in the salary cap!
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by greeneyed »

T_R wrote: December 13, 2018, 10:14 pm
edwahu wrote:It clearly shows that TPAs are not a a pre-requisite or even a major influence on success. The advantage is not even a rep players salary outside of the storm.
Yeah. Precisely.

The figures are crap, which in the case ofnat least one club, I know for a fact.
So why don't the NRL salary cap auditors know it?
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by Lui_Bon »

The Nickman wrote: December 13, 2018, 10:09 pm Haha you guys need to learn how to read graphs. That graph clearly shows both the 2018 AND 2017 figures


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It doesn't clearly show anything. What clear information are we missing?
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by zim »

It's a really **** graph, and not clear.
But look at how the 2017 "bubbles" are all positioned differently. That's where the 2017 level was.
2018 is the bar.
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by edwahu »

The average, mean, low and high in the box are per club. E.g 4.2m/16.

Also the NRL site has an article with a nicer graph.

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/12/13/nrl ... t-process/

Good to see all letters of offer will have to be lodged now and any huge differences will have to be justified. I am sure the justifications accepted will mean it doesn't make much difference but it is an improvement.

I did laugh at the line in the article about the Storm only having huge TPAs because of "once in a generation talents" Slater and Smith.
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by The Nickman »

zim wrote: December 13, 2018, 11:58 pm It's a really **** graph, and not clear.
But look at how the 2017 "bubbles" are all positioned differently. That's where the 2017 level was.
2018 is the bar.
Exactly. The 2017 heading is at a different point on each series, which means that's each club's respective 2017 figure (which also shows the Storm were exactly on the 2017 cap).

Which leaves the actual bars to be the 2018 figures. It's not rocket surgery.
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by -PJ- »

This graph confirms we can't have nice things..
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by T_R »

greeneyed wrote:
T_R wrote: December 13, 2018, 10:14 pm
edwahu wrote:It clearly shows that TPAs are not a a pre-requisite or even a major influence on success. The advantage is not even a rep players salary outside of the storm.
Yeah. Precisely.

The figures are crap, which in the case ofnat least one club, I know for a fact.
So why don't the NRL salary cap auditors know it?
I'm sure they know it, they just dont 'know' it.

Besides, who's to say what should be officially counted or not?
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by edwahu »

Based on the early articles on what would be released I am pretty sure these numbers don't include small contra deals, left over marquee allowance deals or whole of game deals with NRL sponsors like Telstra. I think they added up to another 4m.

Everything else registered would be in there. Dodgey invoices and jobs for the wife wouldn't be.
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by Brew »

-PJ- wrote:This graph confirms we can't have nice things..
And never will.


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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by Botman »

You can count me into the group of those who are extremely skeptical of these figures being true and accurate
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by edwahu »

Only the Roosters raise an eyebrow but really why would they need TPAs.
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by simo »

The Nickman wrote: December 13, 2018, 10:09 pm Haha you guys need to learn how to read graphs. That graph clearly shows both the 2018 AND 2017 figures


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The graph also clearly shows the 2017 high as melb storm being less than 800k yet in the stats at top right its got $1,032k as the hight*. Explain that plaese steffi
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by dubby »

It's a list of legal TPAs.

The issue is illegal TPAs, like the sharks self disclosed one, the Parra players getting free rent, and the DT itself stated players are getting cars they're not entitled to.

This is probably just a way for Toddy Politician to remark about how the system works and what a great job he's doing.

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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by Matt »

Pigman wrote: December 14, 2018, 6:25 am You can count me into the group of those who are extremely skeptical of these figures being true and accurate
Add me to that list
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by edwahu »

No one on here was ever going to believe them unless they fit the narrative.
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by Timbo »

dubby wrote: December 14, 2018, 7:08 am It's a list of legal TPAs.

The issue is illegal TPAs, like the sharks self disclosed one, the Parra players getting free rent, and the DT itself stated players are getting cars they're not entitled to.

This is probably just a way for Toddy Politician to remark about how the system works and what a great job he's doing.

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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by papabear »

Lui_Bon wrote: December 13, 2018, 9:42 pm Wait what is this graph showing? To summarise:

Does the positioning of the little yellow bubble with "2017" in it mean anything? If it does, what does the height of the bars in the bar graph mean? If the bubble doesn't signify anything, what on earth is the Daily Telegraph trying to convey?

The alleged key suggest there are 94 players benefiting from 205 agreements, 89% of which are for plain old cash which is 89% of the total 2017 TPA haul of $4.2 million dollars, or cash totalling $3.7 million. Dunno what the other half a million bucks is made up of - Coles vouchers?

The average agreement is $264k. Now I multiply that by 205 (the number of agreements) and I get 54.1 million dollars. Rather more than the 4.2 million the graph's alleged metadata claims. Ok, I may have not fully interpreted this gibberish, but even if the Daily Telegraph is trying to say that the average TPA for a PLAYER (one of the lucky 94 who have one) is $264k - let me repeat that, two hundred and sixty-four thousand dollars - the total is still $24.8 million (94 multiplied by $264k).

I would suggest that the article reveals the Daily Telegraph is unlikely to be allowed to attend high school.


Edit, ok so the Telegraph article says: "The Daily Telegraph obtained a first look of the 2018 and 2017 third-party values of every club, which will be made public today." That might suggest that the bar graph columns are for 2018, and they've whacked in the 2017 number (in a little yellow balloon instead of a line) for comparison. If that's the case, and I'm having to guess because they ain't a reputable statistical record, all that shows is that the Broncos, Storm and to a lesser extent the Cowboys are way up on their 2017 deals, and Manly and the Tigers, and particularly the Panthers, have dropped off. The Roosters are somewhat unbelievably still up to about $180k in their premiership year from around nothing in the previous one. Obviously all good...

The numbers are still hazy as all get out.
264k average per club.

Lets be honest everyone knows the bulldogs / roosters are pumping out money through their leagues clubs which isnt picked up here.
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by Botman »

edwahu wrote: December 14, 2018, 7:52 am No one on here was ever going to believe them unless they fit the narrative.
Its not about fitting a narrative, it's about the questions around what has and has not been included in this.
Im sure the figures are accurate to what the NRL wanted to report or were able to report, but if you believe this is the all encompassing figures, ive got some prime swamp land to sell you
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Re: TPAs per club revealed

Post by greeneyed »

Basically the figures show TPAs give some clubs an advantage that’s worth an extra $600,000 to $800,000. The difference between the club with the lowest TPAs and the largest is almost $1 million. That’d buy an extra marquee player, a least a darn good one. How is that a level playing field.
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