Nail it or fail again - What is the pass mark for the Raiders in 2019?

[dubby]

Chachi, 2 years ago we had an in form Blake Austin, Junior Paulo and Shannon Boyd. The game was reffed differently. We had an easier draw, bugger all injuries and weren't really pushed. On the back of some Josh Hodgson brilliance, and some incredible Leipana magic we were bloody impressive.

Let's not forget that a year ago Parramatta played semis and finished top4

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[kiwi raider]

I love how most of us have been convinced this is not a top 4 quality squad based on talent.

2 years ago every man and his dog were lauding us as premiership contenders.

It's not talent that is missing.

Do you really believe we have a better roster than the likes of the roosters, Storm, Broncos, Rabbitohs, Sharks etc?

We have Williams and Sezer in the halves, Dunamis Lui was our best prop this last year, our bench will likely be filled by a couple of guys with next to no first grade football(Sutton and Guler)

[Lucy]

Hahahaha "We lost Hodgson for a large part" haha!

What was your excuse in 2017? I must have missed the part where we lost him then too.

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[dubby]

Exactly Kiwi

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[RedRaider]

Even if we make the 8 in 2019 our results under the coaching of R. Stuart are like the start of the Queen song 'We will rock you' -
"Fail, Fail, Hope, Fail, Fail, Hope" - the problem being there is no consistency to anything in the Stuart coaching repertoire. The 2016 result is not the standard - it is the aberration. Other coaches worked out how to shut down the Raiders. In 2017 it was the Shark pattern, scrag them on the ground, slow them down and focus on the Raiders right side in defence and they will hand the game to you. 2018 repeat.

Imo there is no question we were not NRL fit to start the 2018 season. Every other side had 2 matches of trials. This gave them both an edge in fitness and an edge in team cohesion and player routine. Despite the words about focus on defence in the pre-season we were run down three weeks in a row due to not being able to defend substantial leads. We were poor with our fitness levels and it was added to our known weaknesses in defence to hand 3 matches to opposition sides to start the season. It doesn't matter that the losses were 'close'. There are ZERO competition points in a loss. I don't think the halves were to blame either. The side got out to good leads and the side went to sleep in defence. Sticky tried to inject some spark by dropping Papa and Austin, but the damage to the season had been done. Sides need to be ready to go by Game 1. We weren't.

[edwahu]

Ricky - Top 4
Don - TPJ

[dubby]

Fitness wasn't the issue, Red. It's the way they switch off mentally, entering a kind of mental vacuum which suddenly deprives them of the ability to focus, concentrate and play basic fundamental rugby league.

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[FuiFui BradBrad]

Yeah I don’t think we’re a top 4 side, and like errbody is saying, that’s on Ricky.
For me, top 8, no arguments. Anything worse than that and it’s the door. Top 4 is my stretch target.
I’m more focussed on the game results. If we are losing as many tight games next year as we did this year, and are 5th to 8th, club needs to have a serious think about Stick.
I just want to see signs that we’re learning from the last few seasons, and are working on it. I won’t accept another rebuild from Stuart. He doesn’t have the time for that. He needs to enhance what he’s already got. Starting with signing a half that knows what game management means.


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[greeneyed]

Fitness wasn't the issue, Red. It's the way they switch off mentally, entering a kind of mental vacuum which suddenly deprives them of the ability to focus, concentrate and play basic fundamental rugby league.

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Was definitely fitness in the early part of the year IMO. Inability to focus and concentrate comes with fatigue.

[dubby]

Fatigue wasn't the cause IMO.

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[Green eyed Mick]

Fatigue wasn't the cause IMO.

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I tend to agree. There were plenty of occasions early in our games where lazy or absent minded defence cost us points.

Even if it was fitness. Fitness is still highly dependent on having the right attitude. If guys are returning over or under weight or coming into day one below their target fitness level, than we are already behind the 8 ball.

[gerg]

Chachi, 2 years ago we had an in form Blake Austin, Junior Paulo and Shannon Boyd. The game was reffed differently. We had an easier draw, bugger all injuries and weren't really pushed. On the back of some Josh Hodgson brilliance, and some incredible Leipana magic we were bloody impressive.

Let's not forget that a year ago Parramatta played semis and finished top4

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Comparing us to the Eels, the team with the most wooden spoons in the comp. This is who we are and some people seem content with that? Is there something wrong with refusing to accept mediocrity? Because by continuing the way we're going we are accepting mediocrity.

Preliminary final next year or he should be sacked.

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[dubby]

Gerg, they under achieved. They also finished top 4 in 2017
And I'm not content either. You're building a strawman, which is unlike you mate.

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[gerg]

1 finals campaign in 5 years isn't good enough when half the competition play finals. Edit: so 20% of the time we are in the top 50%. It's simply unacceptable.


We have a team capable of winning the competition and if supercoach can't do it get somebody who can before we lose our window of opportunity.

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[dubby]

No, we don't have a team of winning the comp. It's beyond stupidity to even think that.


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[RedRaider]

Fitness wasn't the issue, Red. It's the way they switch off mentally, entering a kind of mental vacuum which suddenly deprives them of the ability to focus, concentrate and play basic fundamental rugby league.

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I have to disagree Dubs. We were behind every other club in terms of preparation. Evidence is a single trial match compared to the other 15 clubs having 2 matches. The difference showed in the back end of our first 3 matches. We had nothing in the tank because the tank wasn't as full as the opposition to begin with. Unforgivable coaching blunder. I don't care what individual skin fold tests etc show. Match fitness is vital to begin a season and we didn't have it as all other clubs did and the results are obvious. Hopefully the lesson has been well and truly learned.

[Seiffert82]

Chachi, 2 years ago we had an in form Blake Austin, Junior Paulo and Shannon Boyd. The game was reffed differently. We had an easier draw, bugger all injuries and weren't really pushed. On the back of some Josh Hodgson brilliance, and some incredible Leipana magic we were bloody impressive.

Let's not forget that a year ago Parramatta played semis and finished top4

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Dubs, Blake Austin was entirely ordinary for most of 2016. Sure Junior Paulo brought us something a bit extra that year, but IMO the biggest loss from that squad has been Paul Vaughan.

OK, I'm the first to admit we're probably one quality front rower from a genuine top 4 contending squad - but I honestly don't think the top teams in the current comp have vastly superior talent to ours. We just don't get the best out of what we have.

[Seiffert82]

I love how most of us have been convinced this is not a top 4 quality squad based on talent.

2 years ago every man and his dog were lauding us as premiership contenders.

It's not talent that is missing.

Do you really believe we have a better roster than the likes of the roosters, Storm, Broncos, Rabbitohs, Sharks etc?

We have Williams and Sezer in the halves, Dunamis Lui was our best prop this last year, our bench will likely be filled by a couple of guys with next to no first grade football(Sutton and Guler)

Time will tell kr. We have pretty much the best attacking record with Sezer and Williams/Austin in the halves, despite Austin being a dead set passenger in attack for most of the season and an absolute liability in defence, and the fact that Sezer has been widely lambasted and Williams is regarded as a depth player at best. Both of those guys have guided us to finals footy in the past and there isn't anything preventing that from happening again.

We all know it's our defence that is missing. I'm hopeful that the departure of Boyd, Paulo and Austin will help that, with the arrival of Bateman and Sutton. I'm excited about Guler too.

Who knows. It'll all come down to attitude and fitness IMO. We shouldn't be scared of any of those teams. We can beat them all.

[gerg]

No, we don't have a team of winning the comp. It's beyond stupidity to even think that.


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So if the coach hasn't got a team that can compete for the title, coming into his 6th season in charge, then he should be sacked.

How many more seasons of failure are you happy to accept Dubby? You've written off next year just as pre-season training is commencing and success in 2020 depends on getting a quality half? If he can't recruit a quality half are you going to accept another year of failure with your hopes pinned on 2021?

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[dubby]

You're rambling gerg. Take a laxative

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[gerg]

And you're making excuses for a bloke who is failing at his job. You're making excuses for the past two years, next year and you're also putting in some pretty solid 'excuse' foundations for 2020. I may be rambling but at least I care enough about this organisation that I desperately want success. You sitting back and accepting the pathetic direction this club is headed means you're part of the problem. You're a classic 'enabler'. No offence of course.

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[Dr Zaius]

Top 4

[dubby]

And you're making excuses for a bloke who is failing at his job. You're making excuses for the past two years, next year and you're also putting in some pretty solid 'excuse' foundations for 2020. I may be rambling but at least I care enough about this organisation that I desperately want success. You sitting back and accepting the pathetic direction this club is headed means you're part of the problem. You're a classic 'enabler'. No offence of course.

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I'm not making excuses. I'm just not caught in some raucous online crowd feeding off each other's shrill and unrealistic expectations.

Please, PLEASE identify which teams are top 4, and elaborate why we're better than 12 other teams, taking note of our low quality halves and inability to win close games.

Thank you.

We have arguably the worst halves in the NRL. At least on par with the Titans.

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[Botman]

You're rambling gerg. Take a laxative

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He's absolutely not. You're just too dense to see what is going on here

You want to isolate this season in a vacuum and judge our idiot Coach on that performance, relative to the squad, which might be, honestly speaking, the high water mark of a rising tide of Dubby stupidity ...

That's not how this **** works, and not how it will EVER work, given the squad is HIS.
He owns it. He's not a rookie inheriting this team, the team is either good enough to compete for a title, of Ricky Stuart has no business being employed as an NRL HC for a 7th season.

If this team isnt a contender in 2019, what has Stuart done in SIX years that would give you any confidence that he can turn it around in year 7? If you've got the capacity to type of a keyboard and intellectually engage on anything independently then you cant possibly truly believe that a coach who's failed for nearing two decades now, and who (at that point) failed for 6 years prior is deserving of a chance to have this second crack at a club rebuild

I dont give the faintest **** about how our squad stacks up against others... It's the Matt Elliott "cattle" argument all over again... If we dont have the cattle, then the current coach has failed miserably and should be replaced. Simple. You dont get to use the quality of the squad as an excuse for performance when YOU build the squad.

[dubby]

I think it's fair that I rate the following teams better than us, as to show my point:

1. Storm.
2. Roosters
3. Sharks (although they are getting older, no Lewis, and unless Holmes resigns soon that'll be a huge distraction)
4. Souths
5. Cowboys

The rest form a quagmire of teams whose form depends on a myriad of factors unique to each club, while adhering to tested factors such as injury, suspensions and the rep period.





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[Botman]

I think it's fair that I rate the following teams better than us, as to show my point:

1. Storm.
2. Roosters
3. Sharks (although they are getting older, no Lewis, and unless Holmes resigns soon that'll be a huge distraction)
4. Souths
5. Cowboys

The rest form a quagmire of teams whose form depends on a myriad of factors unique to each club, while adhering to tested factors such as injury, suspensions and the rep period.





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And who's fault it that? After 5 years in charge, who are we to blame for the fact there is at least 5 clubs, and honestly probably 3-5 more who are clearly better than that?

the level of which Dubby is completely and totally missing the point here is actually funny.
He's a toddler playing Pound-a-peg and struggling to understand basic concepts beyond what is literally in front of his face

[Raiders666]

If only Pigman was our coach...He is pretty much the oracle of all things Rugby League

[Botman]

If only Pigman was our coach...He is pretty much the oracle of all things Rugby League

I wouldn’t really know what the **** I would be doing, and I’m not remotely qualified for this job... it’d be an out and out disaster

But I do know at least one key figure in the QBN political scene so as I understand it, i’d at least get an interview

[Schifty]

Fitness wasn't the issue, Red. It's the way they switch off mentally, entering a kind of mental vacuum which suddenly deprives them of the ability to focus, concentrate and play basic fundamental rugby league.

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Was definitely fitness in the early part of the year IMO. Inability to focus and concentrate comes with fatigue.

Fitness was a big issue all year.

We have had one of the biggest packs yet we had forwards on the bench playing zero minutes on multiple occasions.

Bench management comes down to one person.

[Pete Cash]

Have to at a minimum make the finals. I think we need to do better than that and perform in the finals. Honestly for Stuart its getting to point where a pass mark is getting harder and harder. His time in power has been pretty terrible if we are honest. One final campaign in what 5 years ? There aren't a lot of excuses any more. The first two years sure but we did really well in the third year and its been a disaster for the two years after that.

The club itself well we probably need to make some decent signings especially a halfback and a prop. Halfbacks are insanely hard to get so lets see what happens there.

[reptar]

We're in the bottom 10%

[Beejay]

Our roster is not far off being a contender IMO. Some astute signings in the right places could balance the quality we have in certain areas.
That's on Stuart and DFJ to provide.

We have more tier 1 international players than most teams. 6 if you include Papalli who pulled out. Many others are in the conversation for a Rep jersey in their position; Cotric, Croker, Leilua and Wighton.

While we really could do with fullback/half and more depth in middle forwards, this squad has enough talent to be a contender.
The only thing holding us back is the coaching.

[Beejay]

Will be interesting to see where Barrett lands once he gets his payout. There was some talk that Stuart had realised he wasn't sure if he would keep coaching for much longer, and the rumour was that Barrett would come here as an assistant initially but then likely take over.
Was strongly denied by the Raiders, but of coarse, with Barrett's situation he needed there to be no other job he was going to in order to get the full payout from Manly.
We'll find out soon I guess.

[Seiffert82]

If Trent Barrett ever becomes our coach I'll hand in my membership pass.

[Woodgers]

At this point in proceedings I would take Trent Barrett to take over in a nanosecond.