Raiders express interest in Shaun Johnson, he signs with Sharks

[gerg]

Can't say I'm missing the guy..

He'll be back before we know it and we'll go through the same process again.

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[bonehead]

Can't say I'm missing the guy..

He'll be back before we know it and we'll go through the same process again.

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i heard he's having beers with Polky

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[-TW-]

Can't say I'm missing the guy..

He'll be back before we know it and we'll go through the same process again.

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i heard he's having beers with Polky

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Or talking to Tony Williams at a servo in qbn

[The Nickman]

Once again, we can't sign a top quality player and plenty automatically revert to blaming the location.

Perhaps we could wake up and smell the stench that's been around this club for the past 2 decades before starting to flog the dead horse again.

Let me tell you right now that if we are not a decent club we are going to ALWAYS struggle to attract players, especially in key positions, unless we pay overs like plenty of others have had to. That is regardless of where we are located and goes for almost any team, not just ours.

Be honest - do you really think a player like Shaun Johnson would've moved to the Cronulla Sharks of 5-7 years ago, within the amount of interest a player like him generates?. That club has put in a mountain of work to climb out of the gutter they were in for nearly their entire existence, to now be able to sign a guy like Johnson when he comes around and not have to beg like desperate losers.

This isn't **** luck. This is stupid, clueless, and incompetent management from a bunch of neanderthals whose main 'achievements' in life are to facilitate poker machine addiction.

Absolutely spot on. Every word of it.

[Beejay]

Once again, we can't sign a top quality player and plenty automatically revert to blaming the location.

Perhaps we could wake up and smell the stench that's been around this club for the past 2 decades before starting to flog the dead horse again.

Let me tell you right now that if we are not a decent club we are going to ALWAYS struggle to attract players, especially in key positions, unless we pay overs like plenty of others have had to. That is regardless of where we are located and goes for almost any team, not just ours.

Be honest - do you really think a player like Shaun Johnson would've moved to the Cronulla Sharks of 5-7 years ago, within the amount of interest a player like him generates?. That club has put in a mountain of work to climb out of the gutter they were in for nearly their entire existence, to now be able to sign a guy like Johnson when he comes around and not have to beg like desperate losers.

This isn't **** luck. This is stupid, clueless, and incompetent management from a bunch of neanderthals whose main 'achievements' in life are to facilitate poker machine addiction.

Absolutely spot on. Every word of it.

Yeah can't argue with any of that.
Flanagan is really a top notch coach and has continually gotten the best out of his players. He's also a cunning swindler when it comes to the transfer market and cap.
Seriously under-rated coach.

[greeneyed]

And great with "sports science" to boot!

[Northern Raider]

IMO any coach that introduces a systematic illegal drug program should get a life ban.



...backdated to a previous life

[Johno]

IMO any coach that introduces a systematic illegal drug program should get a life ban.



...backdated to a previous life

Excluding 2016

[gerg]

IMO any coach that introduces a systematic illegal drug program should get a life ban.



...backdated to a previous life

I don't know that it could be regarded as 'systemic' based on the publicly available information. Wasn't the whole thing over a 2 week period? I think what was going on at Essendon could be classified as 'systemic'. What I have never been able to reconcile is how Manly escaped any scrutiny? Dank was on their books for a much longer period, and during the 'calves blood' revelations, and sustained success for the club.

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[greeneyed]

The Sharks admitted that they took performance enhancing drugs... club sanctioned program... Any coach that brings that to their club... they deserve a life ban from the NRL, IMO. If I was running the NRL, I wouldn't want people like that in my code.

[Northern Raider]

IMO any coach that introduces a systematic illegal drug program should get a life ban.



...backdated to a previous life

I don't know that it could be regarded as 'systemic' based on the publicly available information. Wasn't the whole thing over a 2 week period? I think what was going on at Essendon could be classified as 'systemic'. What I have never been able to reconcile is how Manly escaped any scrutiny? Dank was on their books for a much longer period, and during the 'calves blood' revelations, and sustained success for the club.

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2 weeks? I thought it was something like 3 months.

[gerg]

IMO any coach that introduces a systematic illegal drug program should get a life ban.



...backdated to a previous life

I don't know that it could be regarded as 'systemic' based on the publicly available information. Wasn't the whole thing over a 2 week period? I think what was going on at Essendon could be classified as 'systemic'. What I have never been able to reconcile is how Manly escaped any scrutiny? Dank was on their books for a much longer period, and during the 'calves blood' revelations, and sustained success for the club.

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2 weeks? I thought it was something like 3 months.

Yeah I could be wrong but for some reason 2 weeks sticks in my mind. I remember the club doctor found out about it and hit the roof and not long after Dank was gone. But again I thought Dank spent several seasons at Manly.

However I'm sure GE could give us a balanced and objective reminder of what went down.

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[greeneyed]

Two weeks, three months. Who cares. We know the Sharks have pleaded guilty. Some people seem to want to give these drug cheats a leave pass for some reason, that I don’t understand. It’s one of the very worst things anyone in professional sport can do. Yet virtually no punishment for these absolute low lifes.

[gerg]

Yet you give the Storm players a free pass for cheating. There's no difference between the two. I only continue to raise this as I think it's a little hypocritical. Both teams were guilty yet you ignore one and continually froth at the mouth of the other.

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[greeneyed]

However, as the NRL concluded, the players were not responsible for the salary cap cheating.

With drug cheating responsibility is very clearly with the athletes and there is supposed to be strict liability for the offences. They are offences which are on a completely different level. If the Sharks players were men enough to take their four years on the sidelines like Sandor Earl... I'd say they'd done their time for the crime. Instead some of these blokes were allowed to play with minimal penalty and won a premiership while they should have been on the sideline.

[Coastalraider]

Oh GE - here we go again.

Professional sportsmen put their faith in the team doctor all the time. I know the moral responsibility always remains with the athlete to be in control of everything that goes into their body, but they dont have a lab test kit with them at all times. For instance, did you know that a very large percentage of 'legal' sports supplements like protein powders contain trace elements of banned substances due to the fact that manufacturing plants produce both legal and illegal supplements in the same facility? If your team doctor gave you a vitamin boost, which is legal, would you expect each individual athlete to test the product, or trust the system your employer has put in place?? As a bit of an amateur athlete in endurance racing, I take supplements of some type 3-4 times a day. Nearly every meal/session has some form of input. That would be the same for a footballer (I hope!), with the exception that a LARGE volume of that would be supplied by the team.


Now I dont for one second think that the Sharks players or team members are in any way innocent here - my point is that if you want to take the moral high ground and say the payers had a responsibility for what was going into their bodies, you have to admit that the Storm players also had some moral responsibility for what was going into their wallets.

[dubby]

Strict liability has no fault elements, but mistake of fact is available. That's important.

There's no difference IMO between the financial cheating and drug cheating.

Storm players signed two contracts fgs.

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[greeneyed]

Oh GE - here we go again.

Professional sportsmen put their faith in the team doctor all the time. I know the moral responsibility always remains with the athlete to be in control of everything that goes into their body...

It is not a moral responsibility. It is a requirement of the World Anti-Doping Code. There is no excuse, the responsibility very clearly rests with the athlete.

[greeneyed]

Strict liability has no fault elements, but mistake of fact is available. That's important.

There's no difference IMO between the financial cheating and drug cheating.

Storm players signed two contracts fgs.

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The NRL ruled the players were not responsible... and that is because the documents the Storm players signed contained a clause that affirmed that all the payments were salary cap compliant ie declared to the NRL.

[Coastalraider]

Strict liability has no fault elements, but mistake of fact is available. That's important.

There's no difference IMO between the financial cheating and drug cheating.

Storm players signed two contracts fgs.

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The NRL ruled the players were not responsible... and that is because the documents the Storm players signed contained a clause that affirmed that all the payments were salary cap compliant ie declared to the NRL.

Well that settles it - there would be absolutely no reason to question WHY you would be signing 2 separate contracts then would there?

Its like an athlete signing an employment contract with a football club - that would state their responsibilities include attending training sessions, recovery sessions, meeting standards, following club installed supplement programs (that no doubt would be listed as WADA compliant).

[Coastalraider]

https://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl ... mrc&uact=8

[gerg]

Yeah it's not worth it CR. Completely reverse the teams in this situation, ie Storm players on PEDs and Sharks players with salary cap breaches and GE would still go after the Sharks because this is more down to State allegiances than anything else.

It fills my heart with sadness to see this bitterness. My heart is literally overflowing with sadness.

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[greeneyed]

Strict liability has no fault elements, but mistake of fact is available. That's important.

There's no difference IMO between the financial cheating and drug cheating.

Storm players signed two contracts fgs.

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The NRL ruled the players were not responsible... and that is because the documents the Storm players signed contained a clause that affirmed that all the payments were salary cap compliant ie declared to the NRL.

Well that settles it - there would be absolutely no reason to question WHY you would be signing 2 separate contracts then would there?

Its like an athlete signing an employment contract with a football club - that would state their responsibilities include attending training sessions, recovery sessions, meeting standards, following club installed supplement programs (that no doubt would be listed as WADA compliant).

They didn't sign two contracts... one with one figure, another with another. They players were told that their club was seeking corporate support for what was then a (legal) marquee player allowance. This was a side letter to the contract, and guaranteed that the Storm would make those payments if corporate support could not be found - and that all payments would be declared to the NRL and would be salary cap compliant. However, the Storm did not declare the side letters. This is why the NRL did not hold the players accountable, but held the club accountable. Side letters are commonplace in the law.

There has never been any requirement on players to ensure that their contracts are lodged with the NRL and are salary cap compliant. It would be possible, that the players are made responsible for that. But then and at present it is the accountability of the clubs.

[greeneyed]

Yeah it's not worth it CR. Completely reverse the teams in this situation, ie Storm players on PEDs and Sharks players with salary cap breaches and GE would still go after the Sharks because this is more down to State allegiances than anything else.

It fills my heart with sadness to see this bitterness. My heart is literally overflowing with sadness.

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I'm dealing with the facts of what happened in both cases.

[gerg]

Yeah it's not worth it CR. Completely reverse the teams in this situation, ie Storm players on PEDs and Sharks players with salary cap breaches and GE would still go after the Sharks because this is more down to State allegiances than anything else.

It fills my heart with sadness to see this bitterness. My heart is literally overflowing with sadness.

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I'm dealing with the facts of what happened in both cases.

Sadness I tell you.

When the Raiders finally get there **** together and hold the trophy aloft in 2038, GE will be in the stands sobbing "This one is for you Gallen".

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[Wiki Special]

Greeneyed is right regarding both the Storm situation and the Sharks situation.

[gerg]

The players are well aware of what their teammates are earning and secondly they are also well aware that TPAs cannot in any way be guaranteed by the club. Both teams have similar grounds to plead ignorance but both playing groups are equally at fault.

The Sharks were not more heavily penalised because ASADA had no evidence. That is why they offered the olive branch (or wet lettuce leaf) to the players to make the issue go away. But again this is about Paul Gallen vs several QLD Origin players involved at the Storm.

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[Woodgers]

Once again, we can't sign a top quality player and plenty automatically revert to blaming the location.

Perhaps we could wake up and smell the stench that's been around this club for the past 2 decades before starting to flog the dead horse again.

Let me tell you right now that if we are not a decent club we are going to ALWAYS struggle to attract players, especially in key positions, unless we pay overs like plenty of others have had to. That is regardless of where we are located and goes for almost any team, not just ours.

Be honest - do you really think a player like Shaun Johnson would've moved to the Cronulla Sharks of 5-7 years ago, within the amount of interest a player like him generates?. That club has put in a mountain of work to climb out of the gutter they were in for nearly their entire existence, to now be able to sign a guy like Johnson when he comes around and not have to beg like desperate losers.

This isn't **** luck. This is stupid, clueless, and incompetent management from a bunch of neanderthals whose main 'achievements' in life are to facilitate poker machine addiction.

No one will argue with your position on incompetent management and the plight we have, the evidence is there.

The location is still a factor in spite of your post. Do you honestly think a bloke who rates himself like Johnson does was leaving to live and play in Australia and wasn't going to choose the bright lights of the biggest city? He was always going to a Sydney club I reckon. As soon as Warriors showed him the door i'm certain he would have been quite quickly imagining his new life playing elsewhere and I bet none of those daydreams involved Canberra.

What i'm saying is you're not incorrect with what you say about our Management's ability but denying that the location isn't a factor in these things doesn't strengthen your argument that we're inept at these types of things. For me that completely ignores a factor which exists to further slam the front office and that's probably not required because the track record is there. It doesn't matter who is CEO or whatever, we're always going to have trouble with the location and whilst we might get better salesmen, I can't see it ever going away unfortunately.

[edwahu]

I think the point is that at the moment there are a lot of clubs who have to overcome a lot of factors to sign great players. Sharks were one of them, Knights another, even Penrith and Cowboys would have intrinsic challenges but they are getting it done. We don't even seem to be able to overcome any of the factors to allow us to sign even first graders. In fact I think we have stopped trying.

[greeneyed]

The players are well aware of what their teammates are earning and secondly they are also well aware that TPAs cannot in any way be guaranteed by the club. Both teams have similar grounds to plead ignorance but both playing groups are equally at fault.

The Sharks were not more heavily penalised because ASADA had no evidence. That is why they offered the olive branch (or wet lettuce leaf) to the players to make the issue go away. But again this is about Paul Gallen vs several QLD Origin players involved at the Storm.

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But the Storm agreement says the amounts will comply with the salary cap ie. they will declared and charged to the cap. That’s why the NRL ruled no fault for the players. This is in Billy Slater’s book. The players at footy clubs don’t all know what others are on... and even if they had an idea about some, you could hardly say that they would have the information necessary to add it all up and decide if their club was salary cap compliant... even if it were their job. This is nonsense.

The NRL and ASADA botched the Sharks case awfully. So you have players admitting they are drug cheats but served three games suspension. It’s disgraceful and the code should have taken a much stronger stance and weeded these people out. Instead they fete them.

[edwahu]

The full details of what the Storm did are here: http://www.rugbyleague.com.au/nrl/2011_storm_report.pdf

The auditor is clear that what the Storm did was dual contracting and that the players were not aware but were probably been willfully ignorant, especially for some players who signed deals for half of what they got paid.

[thedevilingreen]

The Sharks admitted that they took performance enhancing drugs... club sanctioned program... Any coach that brings that to their club... they deserve a life ban from the NRL, IMO. If I was running the NRL, I wouldn't want people like that in my code.

Don't forget the players... it actually makes me quite mad that everyone looks at the sharks winning in 16 as this magical thing. when in reality at least half of that squad should have been on drug suspensions.

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[thedevilingreen]

Melbourne was caught has premierships stripped from them when they were caught. The sharks agreed to accept responsibility if they received reduced sentences. The only person in this whole drug thing that actually suffered was Sandor Earl the guy was truthful and got a full 4 year suspension took it on the chin like a champ too. High and mighty Gallen blames everyone else for his cheating

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[thedevilingreen]

And don't come at GE with that state alligence BS he would be saying the same thing about anyone who was caught

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[gerg]

The players are well aware of what their teammates are earning and secondly they are also well aware that TPAs cannot in any way be guaranteed by the club. Both teams have similar grounds to plead ignorance but both playing groups are equally at fault.

The Sharks were not more heavily penalised because ASADA had no evidence. That is why they offered the olive branch (or wet lettuce leaf) to the players to make the issue go away. But again this is about Paul Gallen vs several QLD Origin players involved at the Storm.

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But the Storm agreement says the amounts will comply with the salary cap ie. they will declared and charged to the cap. That’s why the NRL ruled no fault for the players. This is in Billy Slater’s book. The players at footy clubs don’t all know what others are on... and even if they had an idea about some, you could hardly say that they would have the information necessary to add it all up and decide if their club was salary cap compliant... even if it were their job. This is nonsense.

The NRL and ASADA botched the Sharks case awfully. So you have players admitting they are drug cheats but served three games suspension. It’s disgraceful and the code should have taken a much stronger stance and weeded these people out. Instead they fete them.

I'm sure when Gallen releases his memoirs expressing his innocence you will accept that as fact.

The Storm players completely escaped any scrutiny of their knowledge of the situation by refusing to cooperate with the investigation. If they had nothing to hide GE, why did they ... you know... hide?

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