zim wrote:He's never picking a bench that looks like that.
Edit:
Making a point of how things will be the same then picking a bench that is nothing like 2017 or 2018 in structure, philosophy or personnel
I would be willing to bet money on it that next year the bench will run out like that at sometime within the first 6 rounds.
Taking away the big men we lost and Austin the side is consistent with what we have been seeing this year
No, it isn't. You've picked a bench with no recognized props. Utility / Utility (lock) / Lock / Utility (second row).
Even when we were playing Austin and Havili off the bench during this season we had 2 players that had a lot of prop experience on the bench with them.
In 2017 it was even further away from what you've listed. Where we were almost religiously Utility / lock / prop / prop.
Last edited by zim on August 15, 2018, 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
zim wrote: ↑August 15, 2018, 3:27 pm
Ignoring the position argument there's still a lot of signing/re-signing to be announced to fill out the top 30 squad for next year. At the moment:
Raiders
1. Jack Wighton
2. Nick Cotric
3. Jarrod Croker
4. Joey Leilua
5. Jordan Rapana
6. Aidan Sezer
7. Sam Williams
8. Josh Papalii
9. Josh Hodgson
10. Sia Soliola
11. John Bateman
12. Joseph Tapine
13. Elliot Whitehead
14. Siliva Havili
15. Jack Murchie
16. Emre Guler
17. Dunamis Lui
Mounties
1. Brad Abbey
2. Michael Oldfield
3. Seb Kris (not signed yet)
4.
5.
6. Ata Hingano
7. Brendan O'Hagan (not signed yet)
8. Liam Knight
9.
10. Ryan Sutton
11.
12.
13. Luke Bateman
14.
15. Corey Horsburgh (not signed yet)
16. Setefano Hala (not signed yet)
17.
Even with what's been guessed we are still 3 players off. If you look at every position that hasn't actually been signed it's 7 still to sign.
I believe Hunt is on contract and we will likely leave one spot open. Mulholland said 4 to go so that's more in line. I'd say at least two outside backs will be signed and a depth hooker and a middle.
At the moment players you are still paying count in your 30, and I am not sure if Baptiste is still on the books next year.
Really the players outside our 17 contribute so little it isn't worth much speculation. We only used 24 this year and players 18 to 24 played about 15% of games and probably 5% of minutes.
We have a solid back line. The signings are promising for our forwards too.
BUT (and unfortunately) if we have Williams as our 7 next year we are doomed. We need to sign a good halfback next year and I realise it's already too late. No other NRL club would place their bets behind Williams. We have the weakest halves pairing in the league and I would challenge anyone to name a premiership side with that in place. We dont have the leadership on the field to close out games and that should come from the 6 and 7. Simple as that.
Austin was hit and miss... bad D so right decision to let him go, but unfortunately for the club and us fans there was no contingency plan in place that will work for 2019.
I've said it many times and just read a post on it too: Rapana would make a solid fullback if fit enough to do the kms - he needs to be given the keys to roam full time in my opinion. I would love to see Wighton would partner with Cotric and move Croker to win with Leilua.
Usually one or two spots are kept for train and trial as well. I think Guler got added through that route this year, they just never officially told us.
BTW - based on what we know.. I would imagine that Wighton may be played at 6 > Sezer to 7. We simply won't be a top 8 side with Williams. That may be the contingency thinking ... but who knows.
I am surprised that we had one of the better halves in the game as coach and yet we do not have that in our side...
I think Williams with Bateman next to him may work. Sam just needs to not get caught one on one in defense to be a decent enough option, and Bateman has great mobility and contact in defense. Like the old Lockyer/Carroll combo.
edwahu wrote: ↑August 15, 2018, 4:26 pm
I think Williams with Bateman next to him may work. Sam just needs to not get caught one on one in defense to be a decent enough option, and Bateman has great mobility in defense.
I think attack and leadership is what is being missed... but anyway
zim wrote: ↑August 15, 2018, 3:27 pm
Ignoring the position argument there's still a lot of signing/re-signing to be announced to fill out the top 30 squad for next year. At the moment:
Raiders
1. Jack Wighton
2. Nick Cotric
3. Jarrod Croker
4. Joey Leilua
5. Jordan Rapana
6. Aidan Sezer
7. Sam Williams
8. Josh Papalii
9. Josh Hodgson
10. Sia Soliola
11. John Bateman
12. Joseph Tapine
13. Elliot Whitehead
14. Siliva Havili
15. Jack Murchie
16. Emre Guler
17. Dunamis Lui
Mounties
1. Brad Abbey
2. Michael Oldfield
3. Seb Kris (not signed yet)
4.
5.
6. Ata Hingano
7. Brendan O'Hagan (not signed yet)
8. Liam Knight
9.
10. Ryan Sutton
11.
12.
13. Luke Bateman
14.
15. Corey Horsburgh (not signed yet)
16. Setefano Hala (not signed yet)
17.
Even with what's been guessed we are still 3 players off. If you look at every position that hasn't actually been signed it's 7 still to sign.
I dont see Sutton signing with us to play for Mounties.....
You will see Bateman and Sutton in the starting 17 for most of next year
edwahu wrote: ↑August 15, 2018, 4:26 pm
I think Williams with Bateman next to him may work. Sam just needs to not get caught one on one in defense to be a decent enough option, and Bateman has great mobility in defense.
I think attack and leadership is what is being missed... but anyway
Name one halves pairing weaker than ours.
Marshall-King and Lewis/Frawley.
Moses and Salmon.
Taylor and Elgey.
I mean no doubt ours is near the bottom on results it's delivered, but also we aren't signing anyone so the risk of moving Jack has to be considered.
zim wrote: ↑August 15, 2018, 3:27 pm
Ignoring the position argument there's still a lot of signing/re-signing to be announced to fill out the top 30 squad for next year. At the moment:
Raiders
1. Jack Wighton
2. Nick Cotric
3. Jarrod Croker
4. Joey Leilua
5. Jordan Rapana
6. Aidan Sezer
7. Sam Williams
8. Josh Papalii
9. Josh Hodgson
10. Sia Soliola
11. John Bateman
12. Joseph Tapine
13. Elliot Whitehead
14. Siliva Havili
15. Jack Murchie
16. Emre Guler
17. Dunamis Lui
Mounties
1. Brad Abbey
2. Michael Oldfield
3. Seb Kris (not signed yet)
4.
5.
6. Ata Hingano
7. Brendan O'Hagan (not signed yet)
8. Liam Knight
9.
10. Ryan Sutton
11.
12.
13. Luke Bateman
14.
15. Corey Horsburgh (not signed yet)
16. Setefano Hala (not signed yet)
17.
Even with what's been guessed we are still 3 players off. If you look at every position that hasn't actually been signed it's 7 still to sign.
I dont see Sutton signing with us to play for Mounties.....
You will see Bateman and Sutton in the starting 17 for most of next year
Tho it is Ricky
The very first part of the post points out this is not a position discussion. It's just a list of players in the squad.
But, you're very likely right on Bateman. Sutton I think it all depends on his pre-season. I don't think he's lock for the top 17 in 2019.
Last edited by zim on August 15, 2018, 6:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
zim wrote: ↑August 15, 2018, 3:27 pm
Ignoring the position argument there's still a lot of signing/re-signing to be announced to fill out the top 30 squad for next year. At the moment:
Raiders
1. Jack Wighton
2. Nick Cotric
3. Jarrod Croker
4. Joey Leilua
5. Jordan Rapana
6. Aidan Sezer
7. Sam Williams
8. Josh Papalii
9. Josh Hodgson
10. Sia Soliola
11. John Bateman
12. Joseph Tapine
13. Elliot Whitehead
14. Siliva Havili
15. Jack Murchie
16. Emre Guler
17. Dunamis Lui
Mounties
1. Brad Abbey
2. Michael Oldfield
3. Seb Kris (not signed yet)
4.
5.
6. Ata Hingano
7. Brendan O'Hagan (not signed yet)
8. Liam Knight
9.
10. Ryan Sutton
11.
12.
13. Luke Bateman
14.
15. Corey Horsburgh (not signed yet)
16. Setefano Hala (not signed yet)
17.
Even with what's been guessed we are still 3 players off. If you look at every position that hasn't actually been signed it's 7 still to sign.
I believe Hunt is on contract and we will likely leave one spot open. Mulholland said 4 to go so that's more in line. I'd say at least two outside backs will be signed and a depth hooker and a middle.
At the moment players you are still paying count in your 30, and I am not sure if Baptiste is still on the books next year.
Really the players outside our 17 contribute so little it isn't worth much speculation. We only used 24 this year and players 18 to 24 played about 15% of games and probably 5% of minutes.
Good points. I'm really hanging out to see Horsburgh, O'Hagan and Kris in the squad officially.
zim wrote:He's never picking a bench that looks like that.
Edit:
Making a point of how things will be the same then picking a bench that is nothing like 2017 or 2018 in structure, philosophy or personnel
I would be willing to bet money on it that next year the bench will run out like that at sometime within the first 6 rounds.
Taking away the big men we lost and Austin the side is consistent with what we have been seeing this year
No, it isn't. You've picked a bench with no recognized props. Utility / Utility (lock) / Lock / Utility (second row).
Even when we were playing Austin and Havili off the bench during this season we had 2 players that had a lot of prop experience on the bench with them.
In 2017 it was even further away from what you've listed. Where we were almost religiously Utility / lock / prop / prop.
Zim, who are our true blue props for next year? I can only see Solilia, Lui and Knight? Correct?
EDIT
If I’m correct above at this stage I can only see Lui and Solilia in the starting 17. It’s obvious Knight isn’t in Stuart’s plans for next year otherwise he would be getting game time now for next year. So with this in mind what options does Stuart have for the bench? We also know he is not a fan of using juniors so I can’t see him running any other option
knight not at 100% fitness apparently.
Props for 2019 you've got
Lui, Soliola, Sutton, Papalii, Guler, Knight (forgot to put him in here after mentioned above)
Last edited by bonehead on August 15, 2018, 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
edwahu wrote: ↑August 15, 2018, 4:26 pm
I think Williams with Bateman next to him may work. Sam just needs to not get caught one on one in defense to be a decent enough option, and Bateman has great mobility in defense.
I think attack and leadership is what is being missed... but anyway
Name one halves pairing weaker than ours.
Marshall-King and Lewis/Frawley.
Moses and Salmon.
Taylor and Elgey.
I mean no doubt ours is near the bottom on results it's delivered, but also we aren't signing anyone so the risk of moving Jack has to be considered.
Aren't they from the teams running 13th, 14th, and 15th?.....
edwahu wrote: ↑August 15, 2018, 4:26 pm
I think Williams with Bateman next to him may work. Sam just needs to not get caught one on one in defense to be a decent enough option, and Bateman has great mobility in defense.
I think attack and leadership is what is being missed... but anyway
Name one halves pairing weaker than ours.
Marshall-King and Lewis/Frawley.
Moses and Salmon.
Taylor and Elgey.
I mean no doubt ours is near the bottom on results it's delivered, but also we aren't signing anyone so the risk of moving Jack has to be considered.
Aren't they from the teams running 13th, 14th, and 15th?.....
That's why I said no doubt ours is one of the worst. Still we need to be realistic about what options we have.
The question is whether moving Jack is more likely to work and not cost too much at fullback rather than keeping Williams there and hoping his defensive issues are sorted.
zim wrote:He's never picking a bench that looks like that.
Edit:
Making a point of how things will be the same then picking a bench that is nothing like 2017 or 2018 in structure, philosophy or personnel
I would be willing to bet money on it that next year the bench will run out like that at sometime within the first 6 rounds.
Taking away the big men we lost and Austin the side is consistent with what we have been seeing this year
No, it isn't. You've picked a bench with no recognized props. Utility / Utility (lock) / Lock / Utility (second row).
Even when we were playing Austin and Havili off the bench during this season we had 2 players that had a lot of prop experience on the bench with them.
In 2017 it was even further away from what you've listed. Where we were almost religiously Utility / lock / prop / prop.
Zim, who are our true blue props for next year? I can only see Solilia, Lui and Knight? Correct?
EDIT
If I’m correct above at this stage I can only see Lui and Solilia in the starting 17. It’s obvious Knight isn’t in Stuart’s plans for next year otherwise he would be getting game time now for next year. So with this in mind what options does Stuart have for the bench? We also know he is not a fan of using juniors so I can’t see him running any other option
The recent raiders podcast with Stuart in it has him discussing how they are going to rely on the younger guys in 2019. Specifically mentioning Guler. Whether that's just because it's his debut this week or he sees him coming off the bench to start 2019 we'll just have to wait till round 1.
Bonehead had a good list above of who we have currently signed. There is still depth to be re-signed and Mulholland has talked about chasing 1 more middle depending on where we play Tapine, and if Tapine is moved to the middle that means 1 of the other middles is moving to the bench.
With the earlier list and the possible shifting of Tapine and/or Papalii the bench is certain to have at least 1 recognized prop.
zim wrote:He's never picking a bench that looks like that.
Edit:
Making a point of how things will be the same then picking a bench that is nothing like 2017 or 2018 in structure, philosophy or personnel
I would be willing to bet money on it that next year the bench will run out like that at sometime within the first 6 rounds.
Taking away the big men we lost and Austin the side is consistent with what we have been seeing this year
No, it isn't. You've picked a bench with no recognized props. Utility / Utility (lock) / Lock / Utility (second row).
Even when we were playing Austin and Havili off the bench during this season we had 2 players that had a lot of prop experience on the bench with them.
In 2017 it was even further away from what you've listed. Where we were almost religiously Utility / lock / prop / prop.
Zim, who are our true blue props for next year? I can only see Solilia, Lui and Knight? Correct?
EDIT
If I’m correct above at this stage I can only see Lui and Solilia in the starting 17. It’s obvious Knight isn’t in Stuart’s plans for next year otherwise he would be getting game time now for next year. So with this in mind what options does Stuart have for the bench? We also know he is not a fan of using juniors so I can’t see him running any other option
The recent raiders podcast with Stuart in it has him discussing how they are going to rely on the younger guys in 2019. Specifically mentioning Guler. Whether that's just because it's his debut this week or he sees him coming off the bench to start 2019 we'll just have to wait till round 1.
Bonehead had a good list above of who we have currently signed. There is still depth to be re-signed and Mulholland has talked about chasing 1 more middle depending on where we play Tapine, and if Tapine is moved to the middle that means 1 of the other middles is moving to the bench.
With the earlier list and the possible shifting of Tapine and/or Papalii the bench is certain to have at least 1 recognized prop.
I take your point. Just sums up our coach though, move one of the games best edge forwards in Tapine to the middle.
I still don’t have faith in Stuart will pick the best sides week in week out next year. It will be about his loyal mates first, then the rest second.
It’s interesting. I can’t see Bateman starting next year and it’s hard to see him playing in the middle as he is playing a lot of centre at the moment.
I don’t know where he will play but I would prefer to have TPJ over Bateman at the moment. He is just destroying teams in the middle at the moment.
Whitehead was very effective in the middle for a while, until it started to tire him. If it was a planned move with a pre-season of prep and Havilii to spell him 10-15 mins a half then it could work longer term...
I think you're more likely to see Bateman in the centres than in the middle!
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The problem with Bateman playing lock isnt his size, it's that he's not very good. He's had some moments but if we want to be a successful team, he's got to be #17-20 player at best.
Pigman wrote:The problem with Bateman playing lock isnt his size, it's that he's not very good. He's had some moments but if we want to be a successful team, he's got to be #17-20 player at best.