Playing the whistle

[-TW-]

I'm only quoting the rules.

Rules that relate to the ball being in touch. Which is not this.

Incorrect.

The ball being in touch is the ONLY time (post 2012) that a touch judge can raise his flag. There is no provision to make that signal in any other circumstance.

The referee 'SHALL' accept the raised flag as the ball being in touch.

The flag goes up means the ball is in touch and the play stops.

Again..

16.2. The Referees shall enforce the Laws of the Game and may impose penalties for any deliberate breach of the Laws. He shall be the sole judge on matters of fact except those relating to touch and touch in-goal

[T_R]

It's not. It's a signal to the referee

The referee makes the final call

Incorrect.

I just read the rules (section 16 if you want to follow at home).

In summary:

The touch judge raises the flag when the ball goes into touch

The referee 'shall accept the decision of ... the touch judge'


So, that flag goes up, the assumption is that it's in touch and it's stop play.

The ball didnt go into touch, TR
Assumption is the mother of all **** ups, so a wonderful Steven Segal film once told me

I'm only quoting the rules.

I won't be asking you to be my lawyer..

That would be wise.
But not in this case.

[Dr Zaius]

Seems that the only two people on this forum and LU that somehow think that this is not a monumental **** up by the officials are holding out on the tenuous basis that this is somehow Ricky Stuart's fault.

[T_R]

I'm only quoting the rules.

Rules that relate to the ball being in touch. Which is not this.

Incorrect.

The ball being in touch is the ONLY time (post 2012) that a touch judge can raise his flag. There is no provision to make that signal in any other circumstance.

The referee 'SHALL' accept the raised flag as the ball being in touch.

The flag goes up means the ball is in touch and the play stops.

Again..

16.2. The Referees shall enforce the Laws of the Game and may impose penalties for any deliberate breach of the Laws. He shall be the sole judge on matters of fact except those relating to touch and touch in-goal

Yes.
But the flag up can ONLY mean the ball is in touch.
The referee is NOT the sole judge of the touch rule, as per your obsessively quoted 16.2
Therefore, the flag is up, the ball is in touch and the game stops.

[Wiggy]

The touch judge is only allowed to raise his flag when the ball goes out.

He clearly raised his flag... so regardless of whether or not it went out, he made the signal (which can’t be overturned by the ref) that the ball was out.

[Dr Zaius]

I'm only quoting the rules.

Rules that relate to the ball being in touch. Which is not this.

Incorrect.

The ball being in touch is the ONLY time (post 2012) that a touch judge can raise his flag. There is no provision to make that signal in any other circumstance.

The referee 'SHALL' accept the raised flag as the ball being in touch.

The flag goes up means the ball is in touch and the play stops.

Again..

16.2. The Referees shall enforce the Laws of the Game and may impose penalties for any deliberate breach of the Laws. He shall be the sole judge on matters of fact except those relating to touch and touch in-goal

Yes.
But the flag up can ONLY mean the ball is in touch.
The referee is NOT the sole judge of the touch rule, as per your obsessively quoted 16.2
Therefore, the flag is up, the ball is in touch and the game stops.

This seems to be a hard concept for some people to comprehend.

[Botman]

The ball was clearly not in touch. There is no doubt about that.
The whistle had not sounded, the sharks played the whistle. We stood around gesturing at officials

Look, i see your side of it, i really do. I dont think people on that side are stupid or insane... but playing the whistle is the oldest rule in every sport. That's 101. We didnt do it. And it cost us.
Stuart knows it too and he doesnt know **** much but he knows that.

I hate that his decision is going to dominate the headlines when the real issue is that the bunker has no evidence to overrule and Beej's pass was not remotely forward.

[T_R]

The ball was clearly not in touch. There is no doubt about that.
The whistle had not sounded, the sharks played the whistle. We stood around gesturing at officials

Look, i see your side of it, i really do. I dont think people on that side are stupid or insane... but playing the whistle is the oldest rule in every sport. That's 101. We didnt do it. And it cost us.

It's not 'my side of it', it's the rules. There's no rule offering the referee the option of ignoring the raised flag - he 'shall accept the decision'. It's in the rules.

[-TW-]

Sutton has said he shouldnt have raised his flag

[T_R]

Sutton has said he shouldnt have raised his flag

Doesn't matter - that's not his call.

[kiwi raider]

I'm only quoting the rules.

Rules that relate to the ball being in touch. Which is not this.

Incorrect.

The ball being in touch is the ONLY time (post 2012) that a touch judge can raise his flag. There is no provision to make that signal in any other circumstance.

The referee 'SHALL' accept the raised flag as the ball being in touch.

The flag goes up means the ball is in touch and the play stops.

So it actually doesn’t matter if the ball is in touch or not, if the touchie raises his flag then it’s in touch, as he’s the sole judge of touch hence being called a touch judge?

[Botman]

The ball was clearly not in touch. There is no doubt about that.
The whistle had not sounded, the sharks played the whistle. We stood around gesturing at officials

Look, i see your side of it, i really do. I dont think people on that side are stupid or insane... but playing the whistle is the oldest rule in every sport. That's 101. We didnt do it. And it cost us.

It's not 'my side of it', it's the rules. There's no rule offering the referee the option of ignoring the raised flag - he 'shall accept the decision'. It's in the rules.

So why do on field officials go to the video ref to confirm when a touchie has raised his flag on a winger diving for try line? And why are they allowed to over-rule the touchie who's raised his flag when its clear the ball has not gone into touch?

by this way of thinking, once the touch judge raises his flag the on field ref has no right to even refer it to the VR.

[T_R]

I'm only quoting the rules.

Rules that relate to the ball being in touch. Which is not this.

Incorrect.

The ball being in touch is the ONLY time (post 2012) that a touch judge can raise his flag. There is no provision to make that signal in any other circumstance.

The referee 'SHALL' accept the raised flag as the ball being in touch.

The flag goes up means the ball is in touch and the play stops.

So it actually doesn’t matter if the ball is in touch or not, if the touchie raises his flag then it’s in touch, as he’s the sole judge of touch hence being called a touch judge?

Them's tha rules.

[T_R]

The ball was clearly not in touch. There is no doubt about that.
The whistle had not sounded, the sharks played the whistle. We stood around gesturing at officials

Look, i see your side of it, i really do. I dont think people on that side are stupid or insane... but playing the whistle is the oldest rule in every sport. That's 101. We didnt do it. And it cost us.

It's not 'my side of it', it's the rules. There's no rule offering the referee the option of ignoring the raised flag - he 'shall accept the decision'. It's in the rules.

So why do on field officials go to the video ref to confirm when a touchie has raised his flag on a winger diving for try line? And why are they allowed to over-rule the touchie who's raised his flag when its clear the ball has not gone into touch?

Don't ask me - consult the rules.

[chris83]

The fact is that the touch judge and or refereee had a direct effect on the outcome of a play, the touch judge raised his flag, called a knock on....the ref put his whistle to his mouth, regardless of if he blew it or not, doesnt matter, anyone who has played a team sport, if the touchie puts his flag up, verbally calls a knock on, you as a player 'switch off' add to the fact that the ref put his whistle to his mouth its second nature to relax and stop. If it wasnt a knock on then play should have been re started due to touch judge/refs inadvertently interfering in the game.

[Leebola]

Pretty sure we've established the NRL appointed official made a signal that's been established as a transgression for a century at least.

But the ball was not in touch.

Play on.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Well, this is the uppest of hills. The NRL appointed arbiter of the rules signalled that a transgression had taken place, by the centuried signal of raising the flag. The NRL team that has agreed to play NRL by the NRL's rules assumed that the NRL's rules would apply apply in such a situation (see the post by T_R). If this assumption is wrong, then we might as well be playing tiddlywinks.

[Botman]

The ball was clearly not in touch. There is no doubt about that.
The whistle had not sounded, the sharks played the whistle. We stood around gesturing at officials

Look, i see your side of it, i really do. I dont think people on that side are stupid or insane... but playing the whistle is the oldest rule in every sport. That's 101. We didnt do it. And it cost us.

It's not 'my side of it', it's the rules. There's no rule offering the referee the option of ignoring the raised flag - he 'shall accept the decision'. It's in the rules.

So why do on field officials go to the video ref to confirm when a touchie has raised his flag on a winger diving for try line? And why are they allowed to over-rule the touchie who's raised his flag when its clear the ball has not gone into touch?

Don't ask me - consult the rules.

you're the one arguing the rule is clear, and yet there is clear evidence this is not the case... so yeah, i am asking you.
if your answer is they dont officiate to the rule book... cool. I can accept that, but we know that, the players on the field know that too, this is common practise. So again, that's on us.

[Chicka Chicka Chicka]

From NRL.com

‘The NRL admitted the decision by a touch judge to raise his flag in the lead-up to a controversial try was wrong and promised a review of the incident that cost the Raiders in their 28-24 loss to Cronulla on Friday night’

Thank you NRL, I’ll sleep better tonight...

****!!!!

[T_R]

The ball was clearly not in touch. There is no doubt about that.
The whistle had not sounded, the sharks played the whistle. We stood around gesturing at officials

Look, i see your side of it, i really do. I dont think people on that side are stupid or insane... but playing the whistle is the oldest rule in every sport. That's 101. We didnt do it. And it cost us.

It's not 'my side of it', it's the rules. There's no rule offering the referee the option of ignoring the raised flag - he 'shall accept the decision'. It's in the rules.

So why do on field officials go to the video ref to confirm when a touchie has raised his flag on a winger diving for try line? And why are they allowed to over-rule the touchie who's raised his flag when its clear the ball has not gone into touch?

Don't ask me - consult the rules.

you're the one arguing the rule is clear, and yet there is clear evidence this is not the case... so yeah, i am asking you.
if your answer is they dont officiate to the rule book... cool. I can accept that, but we know that, the players on the field know that too, this is common practise. So again, that's on us.

If you're absolutely determined to blame the players for this, there's nothing I can do to change your opinion.
And yes, I'd prefer they made the tackles, too. If they had done so, the ref would have gone back for the knock on and I assume we'd have won the game.
But according to the rules of the game, they are not in the wrong here.
And according to common sense, the try should not have been awarded.

[T_R]

From NRL.com

‘The NRL admitted the decision by a touch judge to raise his flag in the lead-up to a controversial try was wrong '

Beg to differ. Pigman and Punish have said it wasn't.

[Dr Zaius]

The ball was clearly not in touch. There is no doubt about that.
The whistle had not sounded, the sharks played the whistle. We stood around gesturing at officials

Look, i see your side of it, i really do. I dont think people on that side are stupid or insane... but playing the whistle is the oldest rule in every sport. That's 101. We didnt do it. And it cost us.

It's not 'my side of it', it's the rules. There's no rule offering the referee the option of ignoring the raised flag - he 'shall accept the decision'. It's in the rules.

So why do on field officials go to the video ref to confirm when a touchie has raised his flag on a winger diving for try line? And why are they allowed to over-rule the touchie who's raised his flag when its clear the ball has not gone into touch?

Don't ask me - consult the rules.

you're the one arguing the rule is clear, and yet there is clear evidence this is not the case... so yeah, i am asking you.
if your answer is they dont officiate to the rule book... cool. I can accept that, but we know that, the players on the field know that too, this is common practise. So again, that's on us.

The VR over rules on field decisions all of the time. That is their job.

[Wiggy]

Yeah, looks like the NRL are setting up the touchie to be the fall guy.

But this is as much on the ref. When the flag goes up he has to stop play (according to the rule book)

[Billy Walker]

Agree it was a shocking call but just to throw a spanner- doesn't the touchy raise a flag when he wants to report foul play? The flag doesn't immediately stop play and often it will be quite a time before the ref see him and stops play.

[greeneyed]

But clearly the ball wasn't in touch. For many years, I've seen touchies lift the flag and run on to report something. Maybe that's no longer in the protocols.

Re the whistle, I'm sure I heard one. In any event, I can't go back to check now... as the recording for the match didn't happen, just the pre game.

[T_R]

Agree it was a shocking call but just to throw a spanner- doesn't the touchy raise a flag when he wants to report foul play? The flag doesn't immediately stop play and often it will be quite a time before the ref see him and stops play.

As far as I can see, the only time a touchie should raise his flag while the ball is in play is in the event that the ball has gone into touch. I guess in the event of foul play, he can raise it once the ball is no longer in play.

[-TW-]

Agree it was a shocking call but just to throw a spanner- doesn't the touchy raise a flag when he wants to report foul play? The flag doesn't immediately stop play and often it will be quite a time before the ref see him and stops play.

There's nothing in the rules to say a touchy can't raise their flag, because yes that's how you report foul play.

[Botman]

If you're absolutely determined to blame the players for this, there's nothing I can do to change your opinion.
And yes, I'd prefer they made the tackles, too. If they had done so, the ref would have gone back for the knock on and I assume we'd have won the game.
But according to the rules of the game, they are not in the wrong here.
And according to common sense, the try should not have been awarded.

No i blame the coach, who has set down a culture and standard of finger pointing. Of unaccountability. Our player stood around pointing at a ref instead of playing footy and stopping a try. This is what happens when there is a culture like ours. Players first reaction is not play the game but to play the officials. That's Stuart's culture, that's his issue to address.

In relation to this specific game, i blame the officials mostly, i think the team selections were poor but i think over the 80 we were the better team and deserved to win. I rarely do it, because i rarely think its legitimate. In this case it is.

I dont care about the flag, i really dont, the flag isnt a whistle. But that try got referred to the VR and there was no evidence to overrule the referees decision of knock on, blatantly incorrect decision from the Bunker. That's 4 (or was it 6?) points
And the Beej pass was not remotely forward, that's 4, if not 6. In a game that ended our season in a 4 point loss

[-TW-]

[T_R]

The tackle is completed and the ball is no longer in play.

[Rick]

Stupid original post.


Sent from my iPhone using The Greenhouse mobile app powered by Tapatalk

[T_R]

Agree it was a shocking call but just to throw a spanner- doesn't the touchy raise a flag when he wants to report foul play? The flag doesn't immediately stop play and often it will be quite a time before the ref see him and stops play.

There's nothing in the rules to say a touchy can't raise their flag, because yes that's how you report foul play.

The rules clearly show that the only time the flag is to be raised when the ball is in play is in the event that the ball is in touch.

But hell, show me the rules that says' I'm wrong.

[Dr Zaius]

The tackle is completed and the ball is no longer in play.

Yes but Ricky Stuart...

[Wiggy]

What was that YouTube vid suppose to prove? The play clearly stopped?

I honestly have no idea wether it was an argument for or against TR?

[T_R]

What was that YouTube vid suppose to prove? The play clearly stopped?

I honestly have no idea wether it was an argument for or against TR?

I imagine he offered it as a pleasant cinematographic interlude.

[greeneyed]

The NRL has already admitted the touch judge erred with putting up his flag and the bunker decision is going to be "reviewed".

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32896&p=1607497#p1607488