Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

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RedRaider
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by RedRaider »

Thanks for posting Tim Gore's Roar contribution Lui Bon. I don't think Paulo or Boyd were helped by our current 'fitness' regime. The dollars they were offered are out of the ball park for 40 minute players, but I recall Paulo playing longer minutes when he first came to the Raiders. Matt the Stat can you assist with this please?

Big men like Fifita can churn out 60 minutes of quality contributions but our blokes can't?? Starts and ends with how the Raiders decided to use the big men and the training regime which is needed to meet that use. They were wanted for power and spend commensurate time in the weights room developing power. Stamina for props - What's that? said the 'you can't have too many second row forwards' coach.

I haven't seen DFJ say we are going to sign the Englishmen and until I do, I'll leave it alone. But if you are examining English players DFJ can you look at England half Luke Gale.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by MrPosh »

You are going to love Bateman.

I've seen him and Whitehead play since they were kids and Bateman is the better player.

He's not big, but he's fierce and effective - think of a pitbull. Whoever he's lining up near in defence is going to have a better time of it next year.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by FROG »

Thanks Mr posh. Elliots real strength is his ball playing ability and general support play. Appreciate you rate bateman defence but how does he go in attack?
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by Seiffert82 »

Schifty wrote: May 23, 2018, 2:55 pm I just hope our intel on the reduced interchange isn't from the same people that gave us the scoop on what the salary cap would rise to...
:lol:
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by Seiffert82 »

Lui_Bon wrote: May 24, 2018, 11:27 pm Two things:

Gorski has written a great article,
https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/05/24/s ... dinosaurs/
backed up with actual facts (amazing eh?) on the front row contributions across the board this year. Read that and the generalisations sort of fall apart a bit (though I do believe Tim is overly confident that the interchange reduction will actually happen - I read something somewhere today, probably on the same site, where someone was quoted as saying that fatigue leads to injury, whereas I've seen similar arguments saying that fresh bench behemoths are also leading to injury - make up yer minds!)

And on the Matty Johns thing after the game tonight, they showed some idiot segment about a pre-match presenter. The graphic the presenter choked over was a Wigan team line-up. And at right center there was Bateman. Admittedly with a double-digit jersey number, but in the centres nonetheless. So maybe he's out new Jordan Turner.
Shannon Boyd playing an average of 35 minutes a game is a **** disgrace for an "international" front rower.

Adios champ.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by Matt »

RedRaider wrote: May 25, 2018, 1:34 am Thanks for posting Tim Gore's Roar contribution Lui Bon. I don't think Paulo or Boyd were helped by our current 'fitness' regime. The dollars they were offered are out of the ball park for 40 minute players, but I recall Paulo playing longer minutes when he first came to the Raiders. Matt the Stat can you assist with this please?

Big men like Fifita can churn out 60 minutes of quality contributions but our blokes can't?? Starts and ends with how the Raiders decided to use the big men and the training regime which is needed to meet that use. They were wanted for power and spend commensurate time in the weights room developing power. Stamina for props - What's that? said the 'you can't have too many second row forwards' coach.

I haven't seen DFJ say we are going to sign the Englishmen and until I do, I'll leave it alone. But if you are examining English players DFJ can you look at England half Luke Gale.
Paulo played as many as 73mins, but that was heavily injury affected. Usually played between 45-55mins, and yes, that avg has been coming down.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by Northern Raider »

LastRaider wrote:
Raiders666 wrote:
LastRaider wrote: May 23, 2018, 8:41 am I think Papa will leave the club if that is the case. Probably why he hasn’t resigned
Have you ever said anything positive?
Give me something to be positive about at the moment. Just calling it how I see it
So you the way you see it is Paps won't sign for a club unless he is guaranteed to be playing on the edge.

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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by Northern Raider »

Personally I believe that not signing Paulo and Boyd on big money puts us in a better position recruitment wise. Paps is playing middle forward now. Tapine can also play there if needed. Plenty of mid range props on the open market to fill gaps.

We've suffered from having our money spread too evenly across the squad. These types of roster moves help us to focus our spend on the key positions. We're well placed at hooker but can legitimately upgrade any of the other spine positions.

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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by CJ42 »

Northern Raider wrote:
LastRaider wrote:
Raiders666 wrote:
LastRaider wrote: May 23, 2018, 8:41 am I think Papa will leave the club if that is the case. Probably why he hasn’t resigned
Have you ever said anything positive?
Give me something to be positive about at the moment. Just calling it how I see it
So you the way you see it is Paps won't sign for a club unless he is guaranteed to be playing on the edge.

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He’s already said that he sees himself going to the middle


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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by Northern Raider »

Kinda my point CJ. LastRaider is sailing well off course and doesn't realise it.

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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by edwahu »

MrPosh wrote: May 25, 2018, 3:58 am You are going to love Bateman.

I've seen him and Whitehead play since they were kids and Bateman is the better player.

He's not big, but he's fierce and effective - think of a pitbull. Whoever he's lining up near in defence is going to have a better time of it next year.
For me the question with Bateman is how many Bateman type players are excelling in the NRL right now? I think Tyrone Peachey maybe, but he is a much stronger tackle breaker.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by Northern Raider »

edwahu wrote: May 25, 2018, 10:55 am
MrPosh wrote: May 25, 2018, 3:58 am You are going to love Bateman.

I've seen him and Whitehead play since they were kids and Bateman is the better player.

He's not big, but he's fierce and effective - think of a pitbull. Whoever he's lining up near in defence is going to have a better time of it next year.
For me the question with Bateman is how many Bateman type players are excelling in the NRL right now? I think Tyrone Peachey maybe, but he is a much stronger tackle breaker.
I’m only going on MrPosh description on a Bateman type. I’d say Jai Arrow, Josh McGuire, Jack De Belin probably fit. Tyson Frizell maybe? Josh Jackson would be in that vein although I wouldn’t say he ‘excels’.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by zim »

Northern Raider wrote: May 25, 2018, 11:56 am
edwahu wrote: May 25, 2018, 10:55 am
MrPosh wrote: May 25, 2018, 3:58 am You are going to love Bateman.

I've seen him and Whitehead play since they were kids and Bateman is the better player.

He's not big, but he's fierce and effective - think of a pitbull. Whoever he's lining up near in defence is going to have a better time of it next year.
For me the question with Bateman is how many Bateman type players are excelling in the NRL right now? I think Tyrone Peachey maybe, but he is a much stronger tackle breaker.
I’m only going on MrPosh description on a Bateman type. I’d say Jai Arrow, Josh McGuire, Jack De Belin probably fit. Tyson Frizell maybe? Josh Jackson would be in that vein although I wouldn’t say he ‘excels’.
I'd say Matt Gillett, but comparatively more attacking than defensive.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by Matt »

Northern Raider wrote: May 25, 2018, 9:06 am Personally I believe that not signing Paulo and Boyd on big money puts us in a better position recruitment wise. Paps is playing middle forward now. Tapine can also play there if needed. Plenty of mid range props on the open market to fill gaps.

We've suffered from having our money spread too evenly across the squad. These types of roster moves help us to focus our spend on the key positions. We're well placed at hooker but can legitimately upgrade any of the other spine positions.

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I still like Max King from Titans too. Might be a nice little take back after they poached Boyd.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by Sid »

is Sutton that guy who's playing for the broncos?
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by bonehead »

Sid wrote:is Sutton that guy who's playing for the broncos?
yeah this is his cousin

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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by CJ42 »

Northern Raider wrote:Kinda my point CJ. LastRaider is sailing well off course and doesn't realise it.

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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by MrPosh »

FROG wrote: May 25, 2018, 5:59 am Thanks Mr posh. Elliots real strength is his ball playing ability and general support play. Appreciate you rate bateman defence but how does he go in attack?
Elliott's game has changed beyond recognition since he's been at Canberra. He's toned down the ball playing and really stiffened up his defence (he was always muscular, but prone to misreads). But whilst we're at it, use him for cross-field kicks - Catalans used to score regularly from them.

Anyway, that's not the question... Bateman is a tenacious runner, good support player and very good at running into a gap. His hands are comparatively good for a middle forward and he has a good offload.

The one thing he really does lack is the ability to draw a man out wide and put a winger through - which is why his playing at centre for England baffles the whole country (fair enough to cover injury, but not full time).

I'd play him in the middle at Canberra - the protection he'll offer Jack Wighton will benefit the team, but he'll also go well on the right edge, offering some grunt alongside the flashier BJ and Rapana (although I think Tapine is doing that just fine).
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by Green eyed Mick »

I'd have him at lock or on the edge. At the end of the day if we sign Bateman we'll have 4 quality edge forwards, two of which will have to play in the middle.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by PabloKang2620 »

I reckon we're positioning to move Tapine into the middle as a big mobile prop with Bateman in the back row with Smelly and Paps.

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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by -PJ- »

Let's not get too excited over Bateman just yet..

I hope he turns out to be the best ever..god knows we need it.

But all I see right now is another lightweight plodder with ink.

Let's get him here for our yearly toughest preseason ever and see how he goes in our only trial.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by Northern Raider »

MrPosh wrote: May 25, 2018, 4:06 pm Elliott's game has changed beyond recognition since he's been at Canberra. He's toned down the ball playing and really stiffened up his defence (he was always muscular, but prone to misreads).
Whitehead fixed his misreads by playing inside BJ. Nobody noticed them any more because of the horrendous reads outside him. :lol:

I think most of us noticed early on Whitehead had a tendency to fall off tackles, particularly under fatigue. He took a while to adjust to the pace of NRL and he often felt the pinch at the back end of each half. He improved dramatically over time in that regard.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by Coastalraider »

Northern Raider wrote: May 25, 2018, 5:23 pm
MrPosh wrote: May 25, 2018, 4:06 pm Elliott's game has changed beyond recognition since he's been at Canberra. He's toned down the ball playing and really stiffened up his defence (he was always muscular, but prone to misreads).
Whitehead fixed his misreads by playing inside BJ. Nobody noticed them any more because of the horrendous reads outside him. :lol:

I think most of us noticed early on Whitehead had a tendency to fall off tackles, particularly under fatigue. He took a while to adjust to the pace of NRL and he often felt the pinch at the back end of each half. He improved dramatically over time in that regard.
And he gave 100% early in, which gave him a bit of leeway with the fans while he adjusted.

I remember one of his early games he played a hard 80min in 30-something heat, he looked ready to pass out and he kept turning up in tackles. That's what i want from any new recruits.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by RedRaider »

Matt wrote: May 25, 2018, 8:54 am
RedRaider wrote: May 25, 2018, 1:34 am Thanks for posting Tim Gore's Roar contribution Lui Bon. I don't think Paulo or Boyd were helped by our current 'fitness' regime. The dollars they were offered are out of the ball park for 40 minute players, but I recall Paulo playing longer minutes when he first came to the Raiders. Matt the Stat can you assist with this please?

Big men like Fifita can churn out 60 minutes of quality contributions but our blokes can't?? Starts and ends with how the Raiders decided to use the big men and the training regime which is needed to meet that use. They were wanted for power and spend commensurate time in the weights room developing power. Stamina for props - What's that? said the 'you can't have too many second row forwards' coach.

I haven't seen DFJ say we are going to sign the Englishmen and until I do, I'll leave it alone. But if you are examining English players DFJ can you look at England half Luke Gale.
Paulo played as many as 73mins, but that was heavily injury affected. Usually played between 45-55mins, and yes, that avg has been coming down.
Thanks for confirming the eye test Matt. So we have a large unit who is capable of playing long minutes when he gets here but now can't. I know he is currently injured but his contribution in terms of game time has been coming down. I harp on about our 'fitness regime' but there is stark evidence about player regression. I reckon both Boyd and Paulo will be looking at 50-60 minute stints at the Titans and Eels. We could not match the dollars being offered to them, but could lack of game time have been a further factor in their wanting out> :hmmm
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by -TW- »

Northern Raider wrote:
MrPosh wrote: May 25, 2018, 4:06 pm Elliott's game has changed beyond recognition since he's been at Canberra. He's toned down the ball playing and really stiffened up his defence (he was always muscular, but prone to misreads).
Whitehead fixed his misreads by playing inside BJ. Nobody noticed them any more because of the horrendous reads outside him. Image

I think most of us noticed early on Whitehead had a tendency to fall off tackles, particularly under fatigue. He took a while to adjust to the pace of NRL and he often felt the pinch at the back end of each half. He improved dramatically over time in that regard.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by EJ »

-TW- wrote:
Northern Raider wrote:
MrPosh wrote: May 25, 2018, 4:06 pm Elliott's game has changed beyond recognition since he's been at Canberra. He's toned down the ball playing and really stiffened up his defence (he was always muscular, but prone to misreads).
Whitehead fixed his misreads by playing inside BJ. Nobody noticed them any more because of the horrendous reads outside him. Image

I think most of us noticed early on Whitehead had a tendency to fall off tackles, particularly under fatigue. He took a while to adjust to the pace of NRL and he often felt the pinch at the back end of each half. He improved dramatically over time in that regard.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by greeneyed »

Canberra Raiders pursuit of English utility John Bateman hits stalemate

The Raiders are keen to sign English Test utility John Bateman for next season - but there is a catch. Bateman, a handy centre or back-rower, is still under contract to Wigan and the club has placed a six-figure transfer fee on him. Bateman wants to come, but the Raiders are unwilling to pay the fee.

Read more: https://wwos.nine.com.au/2018/05/29/06/ ... d-the-mole
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by zim »

This'll probably end up like the Seggy negotiation. We'll moan, they'll moan, we'll both renegotiate and walk away satisfied.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by -PJ- »

So when does Batemans contract end ?
If it's at the end of 2018 we'll just wait for him to finish his commitment in Wigan.

No transfer fee..
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by -PJ- »

This is non story.

I've just read that Batemans current deal with Wigan ends 2018.

So Wigan can shove their transfer fee up their skirt...

He's a free agent very soon and I'm sure the Raiders know it.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by zim »

-PJ- wrote: May 29, 2018, 5:26 pm This is non story.

I've just read that Batemans current deal with Wigan ends 2018.

So Wigan can shove their transfer fee up their skirt...

He's a free agent very soon and I'm sure the Raiders know it.
Pretty sure the mole knows what he's talking about peej :roll: .
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by -PJ- »

zim wrote: May 29, 2018, 5:34 pm
-PJ- wrote: May 29, 2018, 5:26 pm This is non story.

I've just read that Batemans current deal with Wigan ends 2018.

So Wigan can shove their transfer fee up their skirt...

He's a free agent very soon and I'm sure the Raiders know it.
Pretty sure the mole knows what he's talking about peej :roll: .
Of course.. :P
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by greeneyed »

No the contract says he has the option to leave at end 2018... but there’s a transfer fee if he does. As I recall.
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by FROG »

It's simple. They can have our bateman and we'll take theirs. Sorted
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Re: Canberra Raiders to sign Bateman and Sutton

Post by edwahu »

greeneyed wrote: May 29, 2018, 6:28 pm No the contract says he has the option to leave at end 2018... but there’s a transfer fee if he does. As I recall.
Yep, seems that's right

http://wiganwarriors.com/news/2015-10-2 ... s-contract
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