A new Canberra Stadium?

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Where would you like a new Canberra Stadium to be built?

Civic
22
92%
Bruce
2
8%
Mitchell
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 24

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afgtnk
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by afgtnk »

Timbo wrote: June 26, 2020, 2:33 pm So Australia has won the rights to the 2023 Womens Football World Cup.

I can't help but notice, Canberra missed the cut whilst Newcastle and Launceston got the nod. I wonder if the stadium had anything to do with it?

I throw my mind back to the 2003 Rugby World Cup - Newcastle missed the cut because of the (then) dire state of Marathon Stadium, and that was the kick up the backside the city and state needed to actually fix that place up to its current very good standards.

Could this be a similar kick for the ACT?
If an AFL oval in Launceston got in then I doubt it. Also see Hindmarsh there - our stadium is far better than that.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

Timbo wrote: June 26, 2020, 2:33 pm So Australia has won the rights to the 2023 Womens Football World Cup.

I can't help but notice, Canberra missed the cut whilst Newcastle and Launceston got the nod. I wonder if the stadium had anything to do with it?

I throw my mind back to the 2003 Rugby World Cup - Newcastle missed the cut because of the (then) dire state of Marathon Stadium, and that was the kick up the backside the city and state needed to actually fix that place up to its current very good standards.

Could this be a similar kick for the ACT?
The ACT government withdrew, as soccer was demanding a subsidy of $1 million per game, a total of $6 million, and no guarantee that the Australian team would play in Canberra. Plus, soccer was demanding exclusive use of Canberra Stadium for 12 weeks, around July and August, in the middle of the main tenants' seasons.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... #gsc.tab=0

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... #gsc.tab=0

Sensible response from the ACT government.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

Botman wrote: June 26, 2020, 2:38 pm I dont think the Womens Football World Cup will move the needle much if it all for sports infrastructure.
I hope im wrong but i cant see the ACT GOV being motivated to rectify the stadium based on this.
Given they weren't prepared to spend $6 million to subsidise the soccer, they weren't spending a whole pile more to build a new stadium, in the hope of attracting such events. The soccer would have played at the existing stadium, if the government handed over the subsidy.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: June 26, 2020, 3:20 pm
Botman wrote: June 26, 2020, 2:38 pm I dont think the Womens Football World Cup will move the needle much if it all for sports infrastructure.
I hope im wrong but i cant see the ACT GOV being motivated to rectify the stadium based on this.
Given they weren't prepared to spend $6 million to subsidise the soccer, they weren't spending a whole pile more to build a new stadium, in the hope of attracting such events. The soccer would have played at the existing stadium, if the government handed over the subsidy.
Yeah i wasnt aware of all that back history on this for ACT GOV, but yeah you've confirmed as i suspected, the Women's WC isnt moving the needle for the ACT Gov on a new stadiums
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

Botman wrote: June 26, 2020, 3:25 pm
greeneyed wrote: June 26, 2020, 3:20 pm
Botman wrote: June 26, 2020, 2:38 pm I dont think the Womens Football World Cup will move the needle much if it all for sports infrastructure.
I hope im wrong but i cant see the ACT GOV being motivated to rectify the stadium based on this.
Given they weren't prepared to spend $6 million to subsidise the soccer, they weren't spending a whole pile more to build a new stadium, in the hope of attracting such events. The soccer would have played at the existing stadium, if the government handed over the subsidy.
Yeah i wasnt aware of all that back history on this for ACT GOV, but yeah you've confirmed as i suspected, the Women's WC isnt moving the needle for the ACT Gov on a new stadiums
They seem to be playing at Stadium Australia, the SFS, Lang Park, Hunter Stadium, Melbourne Rectangular. That's going to be a huge amount of disruption for the NRL and none for the AFL.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Botman »

Of course. They play on rectangle fields like us. AFL use oval fields which are not suitable for soccer, especially not a high profile event like the WC which will be televised internationally... the broadcasting situation would be embarrassing.

FIFA get final say over the venues i believe and i would be surprised if they even allowed for an oval venue to host games (York Park is the only oval venue on the list i believe)... there is 13 venues proposed in the bid, but FIFA reportedly favour 10 locations... ill bet York Park is given the heavy-ho from the venues
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Raider47 »

The FFA, NRL and ARU have reached some agreements over ground use. I imagine the amount of suburban grounds accessible for the NRL has made negotiations easier.

AFL were a lot more stubborn handing over Marvel Stadium and/or MCG, so FFA said stuff them, they'll settle on AAMI Park.

Pretty disappointed we didn't bid for it, seeing as though many other cities in Australia/NZ did however I guess our logistics may be slighty more difficult, having only one proper stadium in Canberra.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by BJ »

Yep ACT Government did the right thing by not giving millions to soccer to play in canberra.

Pity they didn’t apply the same smarts before giving AFL $23 million for a handful of games in canberra.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

BJ wrote: June 26, 2020, 5:25 pm Yep ACT Government did the right thing by not giving millions to soccer to play in canberra.

Pity they didn’t apply the same smarts before giving AFL $23 million for a handful of games in canberra.
Agree on both points. The international soccer gravy train is incredibly corrupt. They are voracious in their demands for government subsidies. I hate to think how much Australian governments have committed in taxpayers funds to it, but at least ACT taxpayers have saved $6 million.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Bay53 »

greeneyed wrote: June 26, 2020, 5:29 pm
BJ wrote: June 26, 2020, 5:25 pm Yep ACT Government did the right thing by not giving millions to soccer to play in canberra.

Pity they didn’t apply the same smarts before giving AFL $23 million for a handful of games in canberra.
Agree on both points. The international soccer gravy train is incredibly corrupt. They are voracious in their demands for government subsidies. I hate to think how much Australian governments have committed in taxpayers funds to it, but at least ACT taxpayers have saved $6 million.
I read somewhere today that every Women’s World Cup has delivered a profit for the host country. The last one in Canada was over $500m.

It actually seems reasonably cheap to stage. Unlike a Men’s World Cup it doesn’t seem to require any additional infrastructure. Australia still won despite the fact it was originally going to host the final in a renovated ANZ Stadium but now is going to use the existing stadium.

A billion people watched the last Women’s World Cup. I think the ACT government pays far more than that for other events that get far less exposure. It may be a decision they live to regret. I think this will actually become a really big deal.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

It isn't surprising that international soccer events run at a "profit" for the organisers. They typically demand exemptions from host governments from all taxes and charges. Then there are the subsidies they demand on top of that. No wonder they make a profit if they demand a $1 million subsidy per game. Properly conducted cost benefit analyses are typically negative for the host countries more broadly. I guess we'll have to wait and see precisely how much governments will spend on this one.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

Bay53 wrote:
greeneyed wrote: June 26, 2020, 5:29 pm
BJ wrote: June 26, 2020, 5:25 pm Yep ACT Government did the right thing by not giving millions to soccer to play in canberra.

Pity they didn’t apply the same smarts before giving AFL $23 million for a handful of games in canberra.
Agree on both points. The international soccer gravy train is incredibly corrupt. They are voracious in their demands for government subsidies. I hate to think how much Australian governments have committed in taxpayers funds to it, but at least ACT taxpayers have saved $6 million.
I read somewhere today that every Women’s World Cup has delivered a profit for the host country. The last one in Canada was over $500m.

It actually seems reasonably cheap to stage. Unlike a Men’s World Cup it doesn’t seem to require any additional infrastructure. Australia still won despite the fact it was originally going to host the final in a renovated ANZ Stadium but now is going to use the existing stadium.

A billion people watched the last Women’s World Cup. I think the ACT government pays far more than that for other events that get far less exposure. It may be a decision they live to regret. I think this will actually become a really big deal.
Adam Spencer made a similar point on Back Page a few years ago. When you look at the cost of the Men’s World Cup bid, and compare that to Australia’s chance of actually winning it, then compare that to the Women’s World Cup and our chance of winning that, going all in on the Women’s makes sense
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Bay53 »

greeneyed wrote: June 26, 2020, 6:16 pm It isn't surprising that international soccer events run at a "profit" for the organisers. They typically demand exemptions from host governments from all taxes and charges. Then there are the subsidies they demand on top of that. No wonder they make a profit if they demand a $1 million subsidy per game. Properly conducted cost benefit analyses are typically negative for the host countries more broadly. I guess we'll have to wait and see precisely how much governments will spend on this one.
You won’t have to wait long. According to the SMH.

“Collectively, the Australian and New Zealand federal governments will contribute nearly $110 million towards operational costs.“
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

Bay53 wrote: June 26, 2020, 6:49 pm
greeneyed wrote: June 26, 2020, 6:16 pm It isn't surprising that international soccer events run at a "profit" for the organisers. They typically demand exemptions from host governments from all taxes and charges. Then there are the subsidies they demand on top of that. No wonder they make a profit if they demand a $1 million subsidy per game. Properly conducted cost benefit analyses are typically negative for the host countries more broadly. I guess we'll have to wait and see precisely how much governments will spend on this one.
You won’t have to wait long. According to the SMH.

“Collectively, the Australian and New Zealand federal governments will contribute nearly $110 million towards operational costs.“
I'll wait and see what other concessions have been committed in terms of taxes and charges, and something more official than an article in the Sydney Morning Herald.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

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I’ve looked at the bids financials.

What does ‘Sepp Blatter management support service $9.7 million’ mean?
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

BJ wrote:I’ve looked at the bids financials.

What does ‘Sepp Blatter management support service $9.7 million’ mean?
Oh that’s our contribution to his charity “My Back Pocket.” Which promises to ensure all children in third world countries have adequate pockets in their clothing.

I remember him telling a journo once about all the contributions that went to My Back Pocket
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

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Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:
BJ wrote:I’ve looked at the bids financials.

What does ‘Sepp Blatter management support service $9.7 million’ mean?
Oh that’s our contribution to his charity “My Back Pocket.” Which promises to ensure all children in third world countries have adequate pockets in their clothing.

I remember him telling a journo once about all the contributions that went to My Back Pocket
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

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A new Canberra Stadium in Civic might have a capacity of 20,000 or less: ACT Chief Minister Andrew Barr

Canberra might have to settle for a Civic stadium holding 20,000 or less, with ACT Chief Minister Andrew Barr saying all three options the ACT government were considering (Civic, Bruce and Mitchell) had problems.

Barr said a stadium in Civic could be limited to a capacity of just 20,000 - even if a steep seating model like the new Parramatta Stadium was used. They could potentially make it a bit bigger, if they adopted an even steeper model - like what's used for some baseball stadiums in the USA. Either way, Parkes Way would need to move.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14280
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

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So the feasibility study says that the transport network suggests Civic is the best site... but a stadium doesn't fit on the pool site. A stadium of 20,000 or less doesn't cut it, in terms of hosting finals matches.

If they build it at EPIC at Mitchell, they'd need to build a whole entertainment and other precinct around it... not too different at Bruce. They're poor sites in terms of transport and location.

Build it on Commonwealth Park is my solution. The flat bit right beside Commonwealth Avenue.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Raider47 »

20k would be perfect for the everyday running of the Raiders, Brumbies and future A-League team. You'd create an almighty atmosphere and energy providing the stadium is designed well. Raiders could foreseeably have 80% of the stadium or more filled every week.

Problem though then is you really limit our ability to host a Prelim and then obviously any other sporting fixtures involving National Teams.

A bit of a conundrum. Although the stadium has to be in Civic.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

Raider47 wrote: September 8, 2020, 6:54 pm 20k would be perfect for the everyday running of the Raiders, Brumbies and future A-League team. You'd create an almighty atmosphere and energy providing the stadium is designed well. Raiders could foreseeably have 80% of the stadium or more filled every week.

Problem though then is you really limit our ability to host a Prelim and then obviously any other sporting fixtures involving National Teams.

A bit of a conundrum. Although the stadium has to be in Civic.
It has to be a minimum 25,000... what's the point of building a smaller stadium than the one we have. Ideally it would be scalable, allowing up to 30,000 for finals and big events.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Raider47 »

greeneyed wrote: September 8, 2020, 7:00 pm
Raider47 wrote: September 8, 2020, 6:54 pm 20k would be perfect for the everyday running of the Raiders, Brumbies and future A-League team. You'd create an almighty atmosphere and energy providing the stadium is designed well. Raiders could foreseeably have 80% of the stadium or more filled every week.

Problem though then is you really limit our ability to host a Prelim and then obviously any other sporting fixtures involving National Teams.

A bit of a conundrum. Although the stadium has to be in Civic.
It has to be a minimum 25,000... what's the point of building a smaller stadium than the one we have. Ideally it would be scalable, allowing up to 30,000 for finals and big events.
Agreed.

Just saying that a game day atmosphere can be bloody awesome in a smaller stadium. So it has its benefits.

But I do agree- there's no point building a stadium that small.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

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I think with a better designed stadium in the city we could sell out 35,000 tickets for a finals game. That should be the minimum but again this is just more stalling from Barr.

C'mon really. Why are we still considering sites? It needs to be civic. Bruce and Mitchell are just utterly ridiculous and signs he doesn't want it to be successful.

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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

gergreg wrote: September 8, 2020, 7:24 pm I think with a better designed stadium in the city we could sell out 35,000 tickets for a finals game. That should be the minimum but again this is just more stalling from Barr.

C'mon really. Why are we still considering sites? It needs to be civic. Bruce and Mitchell are just utterly ridiculous and signs he doesn't want it to be successful.

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I think the issue is... when they identified the site of the pool for a new stadium... no one actually checked that a stadium would fit! It pretty clearly doesn't, now they have, a decade later, undertaken a feasibility study.

It seems that a stadium of any size requires Parkes Way to be shifted. They should just bite the bullet. Put Parkes Way underground, build a tunnel... create a genuine pathway from the city to the lake... and put the Stadium on top of it.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Bay53 »

greeneyed wrote: September 8, 2020, 7:29 pm
gergreg wrote: September 8, 2020, 7:24 pm I think with a better designed stadium in the city we could sell out 35,000 tickets for a finals game. That should be the minimum but again this is just more stalling from Barr.

C'mon really. Why are we still considering sites? It needs to be civic. Bruce and Mitchell are just utterly ridiculous and signs he doesn't want it to be successful.

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I think the issue is... when they identified the site of the pool for a new stadium... no one actually checked that a stadium would fit! It pretty clearly doesn't, now they have, a decade later, undertaken a feasibility study.

It seems that a stadium of any size requires Parkes Way to be shifted. They should just bite the bullet. Put Parkes Way underground, build a tunnel... create a genuine pathway from the city to the lake... and put the Stadium on top of it.
Putting Parkes Way underground is a very expensive option, but has the advantage of actually connecting the city and the lake which it is not now. To be honest I think originally people thought it would run the same way as Parkes Way - until someone realised the stadium has to run North - South.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Dr Zaius »

Parkes Way seems to be the sticking point. The expense of burying it too high.

A lot of talk about major federal government infrastructure spending as a means of getting us out of this recession.

Barr needs to put his hand up and ask for cash to help finish off the City to the Lake plan.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Old School Green »

Surely they can solve a road problem. Go international for an architect I’m sure it would be sorted ASAP
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by BJ »

I don’t reckon Parkes Way needs to be lowered, instead moved towards the Lake with commonwealth park built on top of the arched roof over the road.

What a great way to connect the city to the lake without the cost of a tunnel. A great view from the garden roof back towards the High Court and NGA.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Mercury »

The stadium needs to be 30,000 minimum.
If Barr goes ahead with a smaller stadium I'm give up. :rant
He wants to grow the population of Canberra and surrounds but propises a SMALLER stadium??? :thumbsdown

He won't be happy until the Raiders fold. The Raiders have already flagged a timeline for a new stadium. He's just stalling until they relocate.

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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Matt »

Old School Green wrote: September 8, 2020, 10:02 pm Surely they can solve a road problem. Go international for an architect I’m sure it would be sorted ASAP
An International architect wont see anything different to a local guy. Dorsnt change the problem or cost. The only difference is, they might have actually been involved in building one that way before.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Matt »

Civic is the best location, BUT, to get the product we all think we need, the cost will be significantly more. The site is too small, thus bridging Parkes Way is the only way to solve it, and that comes at a cost - not to mention, that the stadium likely needs to be raised a storey about the site to compensate.

Epic has the space. Has the tram. But its run down more Bruce. Also further from most of Canberra, even if its closer to the highway. Time wise, might be equidistant, monaro highway vs lights and roundabouts of Parkes way
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

Matt wrote: September 9, 2020, 6:00 am Civic is the best location, BUT, to get the product we all think we need, the cost will be significantly more. The site is too small, thus bridging Parkes Way is the only way to solve it, and that comes at a cost - not to mention, that the stadium likely needs to be raised a storey about the site to compensate.

Epic has the space. Has the tram. But its run down more Bruce. Also further from most of Canberra, even if its closer to the highway. Time wise, might be equidistant, monaro highway vs lights and roundabouts of Parkes way
Mitchell is a long way from the geographic centre of Canberra (which is just north of the lake, near Civic). Bruce would make much more sense. The tram is irrelevant to most Canberrans... but even when it is fully built, Mitchell is at the northern end of that network. Civic will be the centre of it.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Old School Green »

Matt wrote: September 9, 2020, 5:54 am
Old School Green wrote: September 8, 2020, 10:02 pm Surely they can solve a road problem. Go international for an architect I’m sure it would be sorted ASAP
An International architect wont see anything different to a local guy. Dorsnt change the problem or cost. The only difference is, they might have actually been involved in building one that way before.
That's the point though they have likely done something similar before. Surely this isn't a unique situation in the whole world of city stadium construction. How to fit a 30k stadium (that's still small by international standards) on a finite sized block where they have to adjust a road to make it work.

Cost is always a factor obviously. Hopefully, the Bruce site has a recaptured sale possibility which could assist to offset costs in some way. Fed infrastructure money/Private sector money could be crucial too etc.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Mickey_Raider »

**** Just stop making excuses and get it done. Civic stadium, 30,000 and no less.

If Raiders were an AFL team Barr would have found the solution years ago.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Matt »

greeneyed wrote: September 9, 2020, 6:45 am
Matt wrote: September 9, 2020, 6:00 am Civic is the best location, BUT, to get the product we all think we need, the cost will be significantly more. The site is too small, thus bridging Parkes Way is the only way to solve it, and that comes at a cost - not to mention, that the stadium likely needs to be raised a storey about the site to compensate.

Epic has the space. Has the tram. But its run down more Bruce. Also further from most of Canberra, even if its closer to the highway. Time wise, might be equidistant, monaro highway vs lights and roundabouts of Parkes way
Mitchell is a long way from the geographic centre of Canberra (which is just north of the lake, near Civic). Bruce would make much more sense. The tram is irrelevant to most Canberrans... but even when it is fully built, Mitchell is at the northern end of that network. Civic will be the centre of it.
Thats exactly what I said GE.
But Civic isnt a big enough site. You cant build a stadium without space to do it.
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