Hall of Fame nominee Stuart won't rest until Canberra Raiders get back to the top

[Ultima]

So maybe the problem is Stuart hasn't slept in three years? He was allowed a short nap after 2016 but if he has had any rest since round one 2017 then he is as full of **** as his bench utilisation and game plans are.

[Northern Raider]

I like that Pat has derided the “geniuses” in a post that appears to make no discernible difference between current level of play, and current level of talent.

He’s quick to scold people for saying despite some flaws that will prevent us from being a legitimate contender, the overall quality of the squad is good enough to be a better than average team. SCOLDS us for it but concedes we could “quite easily” be a top 4 side

I respect that hustle.

Started off by arguing while actually agreeing with the point being made. It’s quality stuff.

[Brew]

How much longer do we have to suffer this muppet?

Till the end of 2020 at least.


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[Raiders_Pat]

I like that Pat has derided the “geniuses” in a post that appears to make no discernible difference between current level of play, and current level of talent.

He’s quick to scold people for saying despite some flaws that will prevent us from being a legitimate contender, the overall quality of the squad is good enough to be a better than average team. SCOLDS us for it but concedes we could “quite easily” be a top 4 side

I respect that hustle.

Started off by arguing while actually agreeing with the point being made. It’s quality stuff.

I mainly just strongly disagree with the sentiment that we are a top 8 quality side because we were in the top 4 a couple seasons ago. In modern sport, you need to keep improving your squad or it goes stale. It's simple.

And Pigman, no need to get so worked up about my comment either lol may I remind you that you inferred I was a "proper old school fool" who doesn't know what I'm talkimg about first love dishing it out but can't seem to take it so well

[Botman]

Who's worked up, Pat?
I thought your post was tremendous. I liked it every bit of it!
it was a wild ride and the "geniuses" stuff got a nice chuckle from me.

[Raiders_Pat]

Who's worked up, Pat?
I thought your post was tremendous. I liked it every bit of it!
it was a wild ride and the "geniuses" stuff got a nice chuckle from me.

Lol ok, glad we're on the same page there. The emphasis seemed to be on the genius comment and not on the actual content of the post so you can understand my confusion.

I'm more interested to hear your views on what separates our team from being a top 8 standard side as far as talent goes compared to other team outside of the 8 tbh.

[Botman]

Our back line and back row would be in the top 4 of the comp. Those are very good and talented units.
I think we've got 3 very good front rowers, 2 of which under any competent coach could be rep regulars. Havilii has been actually very good for us, so as big a loss as Hodgson is, it's been lessened by the play of Havilii...

So now we get to fullback, Wighton is a difficult case because he does some things very well and some things very poorly. I think he's a middle of the road, slightly below average fullback overall, somewhere between 7th-12th. But again the natural talent is there, and every coach who's been around him raves about him. Another case where i think quality coaching could see major improvements to his defensive positioning and continue to develop his ball playing.

And then the halves, we have a bloke who has won 5/8th of the year, and was a dominant player to the point of being considered for SOO. And a halfback who was lights out as a very young talented half at his previous club.

Again ive got no reason to believe a good coach couldnt get these guys performing at a higher level than they are in 2018.

I look around the league and cant find 8 teams which have more talent than we do. We have played like absolute garbage almost the entire year, and we're 4 points out of the top 8 in a season in which we've lost 3 games by giving up leads in the final stages including the warriors fiasco.

The reality is this team SHOULD be 7-3... and im not talking about games where we had a chance to take a lead and didnt or something.
The Knights, Warriors and Gold Coast games, we worked out way into winning positions VERY late into those games, and blew them all. The warriors one in particular was a stunning piece of failure.
Talent level wise i think we're a top 8 team, as this season has shown, again, when play at a baseline level, we are a very competitive team, unfortunately we don't play at our baseline with enough consistency, which i believe could be overcome with a better coach

[Raiders_Pat]

@Pigman I agree 100% with the assessment that our backline (as a collective unit minus halves) and backrow are top 4 in the comp - our backs are unstoppable on their day and our backrow is full of class. Although we will have to wait to see how he returns from injury, I am also prepared to say that our primary hooker is top 4 quality.

However, we have numerous inbalances in our team including two props taking up $1mil of our cap but only able to provide us with 40-50mins each of play (highly paid props need to be punching out a minimum of 50 and closer to 60 minutes a game imo). We have halves who struggle to control the game besides the odd blinder, who also consistently put us under pressure with poor kicking and last tackle options. We also have a weak bench and our depth is definitely bottom 8 if not bottom 4. And there are mixed feelings amongst fans on this topic but I'm also of the belief that we lack strong leadership.

I reckon that with all those things considered, we are not a top 8 quality side. I'm not really surprised at all that we're not in the top 8 at this point in the season and I called it in the off season. Every team besides us at least attempted to improve their starting 13 going in to this season. We failed to for the second year in a row. In a competition that is improving each year (and evolving through rule changes/interpretations), you are destined to fail (and destined for the overall quality of your squad to diminish) by staying stagnant in the recruitment area. By all means, keep the core of your squad together for the sake of building off the back of that unity, but you need to shed underperformers (rather than just fringe players) each year to stay in the race.

I'm interested to take a closer look at the various teams currently sitting at 5 to 12 on the ladder when I get home from work, but I'm confident that you could make a case for each team being at least as capable as us talent-wise in 2018 (with maybe only one or two of those teams overachieving on talent).

[Botman]

I don’t think our bench is that weak
We usually have Paulo/Boyd coming off the bench, with Lui who’s been super solid this year and Bateman who’s a perfectly fine 4th middle

That’s a good rotation. The problem is our two VERY talented bookends aren’t performing consistently. The coach had to bare the brunt of that, particular with how he (mis)manages the bench rotations

Boyd, Paulo, Sia, Lui, Bateman... that’s a talented middle that can do its job if used effectively imo

[Raiders_Pat]

I'm of the view that we as Raiders fans tend to overrate our middle rotation. The balance is completely wrong. How do we have Bateman for example on bigger minutes than our two best props?

Good teams would only carry one of Boyd and Paulo. You want your main man in the middle to be able to punch out 50-60min a game in the 2018 version of the game. If we had say a Klemmer for example next to one of Boyd or Paulo, that would change the dynamic of our entire prop rotation completely. Good teams also simply would not carry Bateman in the 17 unless their primary starting lock was injured. Sia and Lui are the type of guys most good teams would have coming off the bench, but we have to use Sia as a starter because he's the only one willing to lead from the front.

How does one use a prop rotation as inbalanced as that effectively? I'm not trying to deflect the attention away from the coach either, he's the person responsible for this squad after all. I just think that the premise of "we were top 4 in 2016 so we should be top 8 in 2018" is completely off and I've seen people say this multiple times here. There are a multitude of reasons why we are not a top 8 standard side in 2018, starting with the fact that we are basically the same side as 2016 - that shouldn't be seen as a reason for why we supposedly should be in the top 8 this year, it should serve as one of the main contributors as to why we aren't.

[Green eyed Mick]

I think we need to prioritise defence over attack with whoever we choose to replace Boyd and Paulo.

Getting pumped through the middle has been a common theme this year and last year and Boyd and Paulo's below average defence plays a major role in us losing the battle for metres more often than not.

[RedRaider]

I think we need to prioritise defence over attack with whoever we choose to replace Boyd and Paulo.

Getting pumped through the middle has been a common theme this year and last year and Boyd and Paulo's below average defence plays a major role in us losing the battle for metres more often than not.

I think mobility/fitness is the key GEM. The future prop/s have to be back in the line much faster than the current incumbents. They also need to be better laterally. Our line speed is woeful compared to other clubs and I think this is in part a result of our training regime and in part the build of the two blokes looking to move on.

[Brew]

I think we need to prioritise defence over attack with whoever we choose to replace Boyd and Paulo.

Getting pumped through the middle has been a common theme this year and last year and Boyd and Paulo's below average defence plays a major role in us losing the battle for metres more often than not.

It’s been a common theme for 20 years. Every time we have made the finals it’s been on the back of attack.


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[Brew]

I think we need to prioritise defence over attack with whoever we choose to replace Boyd and Paulo.

Getting pumped through the middle has been a common theme this year and last year and Boyd and Paulo's below average defence plays a major role in us losing the battle for metres more often than not.

It’s been a common theme for 20 years. Every time we have made the finals it’s been on the back of attack.


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