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Croker in the post match to the tune of: i thought the game was lost and we had no chance. Austin came on an kept saying we still had time and we could still win this.
Our captains mindset was that we had lost while a bloke that we are shipping off and had demoted to the bench has the we can still win this attitude. Thats pretty sad

LP Raider wrote: ↑July 7, 2018, 6:50 pm

simo wrote: ↑July 4, 2018, 7:28 pm

LP Raider wrote: ↑July 4, 2018, 6:40 pm BEAR
"Pop over to thegh.com.au there’s always discussion on club forums about these things, it’s a useful tool to use. Just don’t login and post supercoach questions, they don’t seem to like that!."
SIMO
"Miserable bunch of old men yelling at clouds. Wouldnt rely on them too much for info."

Simo where not all old, "it's a small world after all".

Yes you are so

I'll see you over at SC Talk some time punk.

See you there. Join us in the top 100 some time

simo wrote: ↑July 12, 2018, 2:12 pm Croker in the post match to the tune of: i thought the game was lost and we had no chance. Austin came on an kept saying we still had time and we could still win this.
Our captains mindset was that we had lost while a bloke that we are shipping off and had demoted to the bench has the we can still win this attitude. Thats pretty sad

Even sadder that Blake has failed to show that same attitude the previous 2 years when he was on the field the entire game.

Northern Raider wrote: ↑July 12, 2018, 3:11 pm

simo wrote: ↑July 12, 2018, 2:12 pm Croker in the post match to the tune of: i thought the game was lost and we had no chance. Austin came on an kept saying we still had time and we could still win this.
Our captains mindset was that we had lost while a bloke that we are shipping off and had demoted to the bench has the we can still win this attitude. Thats pretty sad

Even sadder that Blake has failed to show that same attitude the previous 2 years when he was on the field the entire game.

He wasn't required to do much defence in his 15min cameo NR.

Just run the ball and score tries/set up more tries.

-PJ- wrote: ↑July 12, 2018, 3:27 pm

Northern Raider wrote: ↑July 12, 2018, 3:11 pm

simo wrote: ↑July 12, 2018, 2:12 pm Croker in the post match to the tune of: i thought the game was lost and we had no chance. Austin came on an kept saying we still had time and we could still win this.
Our captains mindset was that we had lost while a bloke that we are shipping off and had demoted to the bench has the we can still win this attitude. Thats pretty sad

Even sadder that Blake has failed to show that same attitude the previous 2 years when he was on the field the entire game.

He wasn't required to do much defence in his 15min cameo NR.

Just run the ball and score tries/set up more tries.

We need NFL style offence and defensive units. Play him in attack only.

simo wrote: ↑July 12, 2018, 2:12 pm Croker in the post match to the tune of: i thought the game was lost and we had no chance. Austin came on an kept saying we still had time and we could still win this.
Our captains mindset was that we had lost while a bloke that we are shipping off and had demoted to the bench has the we can still win this attitude. Thats pretty sad

Probably the same attitude that led to him knocking back 700k

Hang on, we won on the weekend. *shuffles script pages* WHO MESSED UP THEIR LINES?

I have to say the amazing comeback could not have been possible if not for the outstanding leadership by our captain.
Irrespective of what was said in some meaningless presser, what's important is how they acted on the field, and just as our capitulations are down to poor leadership from the Captain and Captain alone, this astounding, miracle comeback can only be put down the Captain and Captain alone!

I am sure it has been mentioned already numerous times, but I think Hodgo should be Captain. Toots is ok, but doesn't have the ref pull that other captains have. I think Hodgo would be able to do that much like referees boss Cameron Smith does.

Relax-init wrote:I am sure it has been mentioned already numerous times, but I think Hodgo should be Captain. Toots is ok, but doesn't have the ref pull that other captains have. I think Hodgo would be able to do that much like referees boss Cameron Smith does.

Why do you think Hodgson would have any more pull?

RTW wrote: ↑July 13, 2018, 10:09 am

Relax-init wrote:I am sure it has been mentioned already numerous times, but I think Hodgo should be Captain. Toots is ok, but doesn't have the ref pull that other captains have. I think Hodgo would be able to do that much like referees boss Cameron Smith does.

Why do you think Hodgson would have any more pull?

I have met him numerous times, he very football savy, He expresses himself well and is very vocal. He is a great game manager, where toots doesn't seem to be. With a team that you basically rely upon your big forwards to get you going you need a forward who has their respect to get them working together. He has this. Toots as a centre (and yes a really good one and generally a top NRL point scorer every year) does not seem to have the same pull with the forward pack.

Look at Smith (i know he is a different breed) but his team can be down, he inspires the team and leads from the front. All the other forwards see this and pick up their game. Hodgo did that in his first game back. If he was captain as well he would have more pull and respect from the forwards they would step up their game meaning the backs could then create the plays we all know and love with more space and ease.

Also if he was captain he would be able to control the game in the dying stages better, the forwards may finally step up and defend the line. Over the last 3 years this team ha been a turnstile in the last 10-15 minutes.

in 2019+ the teams that win will have more mobile forward packs with captains who are game managers. i.e. watch what this new Broncos team does next year with these super agile and mobile forwards. If they jag a new no.6 or 7, they will be hard to beat in the next few years. (Fifita, Haas, TPJ, Glenn, Gillett, Su'A, Staggs, Lodge, Funaki, Fai and Ofeng' that is some massive boys with great speed and mobility.

Nicely thought out response. Do you not think Hodgson achieves all of this without the C next to his name?

I agree on your last para regarding the Broncos and it appears the club does as well hence moving on Boyd and Paulo and transitioning Havili to a lock role.

I have seen Hodgson make some very poor decisions when game management was required.

Also, how do we measure "ref pull"? Is there a stat?

Ref pull is such a garbage answer.

We're the Raiders. They didn't listen to Tongue, they didn't listen to Campo, they don't listen to Croker, they won't listen to Hodgson. Simple.

As for the line in the press conference, maybe the skipper thought we'd lose because in spite of him having a whale of a game and a gaping hole in their defensive line on his side, for some reason we kept sending the ball the other way.

I think Cameron Smith inspires his team cause he is a great player, not necessarily cause he is the captain.
He has great play management cause is an outstanding hooker, not because he is captain.
He is amazing captain yes, but that it because he is an amazing player that is involved in every play due to his position.
I agree Hodgson would be a good captain, but that captaincy will not make him any more respected than he is. Who knows, it could deter from his game with that added pressure.
Croker does a great job as captain and there should be no reason to take it off him. Captaincy is both on and off field, and from all reports he has the complete respect of his team both on and off.

raiderskater wrote: ↑July 13, 2018, 11:37 am Ref pull is such a garbage answer.

We're the Raiders. They didn't listen to Tongue, they didn't listen to Campo, they don't listen to Croker, they won't listen to Hodgson. Simple.

As for the line in the press conference, maybe the skipper thought we'd lose because in spite of him having a whale of a game and a gaping hole in their defensive line on his side, for some reason we kept sending the ball the other way.

My reading of Croker's comments was more that he was (maybe clumsily) trying to say that they played so bad that they didn't deserve to win it.

Hodgson got absolutely **** on by the refs when he captained Round 1 2017 up in North Queensland. Thurston whinged all game (as usual) whenever he wanted. Clay Priest got sin binned because he made Matt Scott angry in a tackle. I think we just get no respect across the board.

BTW, the answer to the question is: Yes.

Wiki Special wrote: ↑July 13, 2018, 12:59 pm Hodgson got absolutely s**t on by the refs when he captained Round 1 2017 up in North Queensland. Thurston whinged all game (as usual) whenever he wanted. Clay Priest got sin binned because he made Matt Scott angry in a tackle. I think we just get no respect across the board.

Thurston also knocked the ball out of one of our player's hands running for a quick 20m tap.

Pretty clear the NRL instructions for that game were "North Queensland SHOULD win".

simo wrote: ↑July 12, 2018, 2:12 pm Croker in the post match to the tune of: i thought the game was lost and we had no chance. Austin came on an kept saying we still had time and we could still win this.
Our captains mindset was that we had lost while a bloke that we are shipping off and had demoted to the bench has the we can still win this attitude. Thats pretty sad

Interesting that in the final six minutes the Captain was not involved in any of the try scoring plays. Hodgo moved the ball to where opportunity beckoned.

GE, I don't have a preference when it comes to team position for who should be Captain. As in all things, the person demonstrating the best skills for the job should get the nod.

Thaiday from the bronco’s got a second wind and thrived when he was released of the Captain duties and continued to play on. I think this could happen with Croker, it would allow him to just work on his game and adjust to the new type of rolls centre’s are playing in the game now. There like forwards now.

Now Hodgson is playing 80 minutes, it just makes logical sense to move him to Captain.


Sent from my iPhone using The Greenhouse

Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑July 13, 2018, 1:32 pm

Wiki Special wrote: ↑July 13, 2018, 12:59 pm Hodgson got absolutely s**t on by the refs when he captained Round 1 2017 up in North Queensland. Thurston whinged all game (as usual) whenever he wanted. Clay Priest got sin binned because he made Matt Scott angry in a tackle. I think we just get no respect across the board.

Thurston also knocked the ball out of one of our player's hands running for a quick 20m tap.

Pretty clear the NRL instructions for that game were "North Queensland SHOULD win".

Yes, I remember that. One of two professional fouls he committed that game and yet wasn't even penalised for.

RedRaider wrote: ↑July 13, 2018, 1:35 pm

simo wrote: ↑July 12, 2018, 2:12 pm Croker in the post match to the tune of: i thought the game was lost and we had no chance. Austin came on an kept saying we still had time and we could still win this.
Our captains mindset was that we had lost while a bloke that we are shipping off and had demoted to the bench has the we can still win this attitude. Thats pretty sad

Interesting that in the final six minutes the Captain was not involved in any of the try scoring plays. Hodgo moved the ball to where opportunity beckoned.

GE, I don't have a preference when it comes to team position for who should be Captain. As in all things, the person demonstrating the best skills for the job should get the nod.

But Red, that's his job as the 9. Has nothing to do with the job of captain.

And arguably lucky, not good decisions since the right side had been **** up while the left side looked dangerous...

Hodgson gets a good run from the refs imo. I think he is pretty dirty in the ruck and gets away with a fair bit. Now that may not translate to the refs giving us more breaks if he was captain. I think refs are naturally biased to good teams so us playing like a pile of garbage doesnt help crokers cause

But as rightly pointed out earlier, when he trotted out as captain for our club he got given a **** bath by the officials and JT.

raiderskater wrote:Ref pull is such a garbage answer.

We're the Raiders. They didn't listen to Tongue, they didn't listen to Campo, they don't listen to Croker, they won't listen to Hodgson. Simple.

As for the line in the press conference, maybe the skipper thought we'd lose because in spite of him having a whale of a game and a gaping hole in their defensive line on his side, for some reason we kept sending the ball the other way.

Tongue was passive, Campo was abrupt and argumentative (and got sin binned more times than a captain should)

"Cause we're the raiders" doesn't wash

Pigman wrote: ↑July 13, 2018, 9:17 pm But as rightly pointed out earlier, when he trotted out as captain for our club he got given a **** bath by the officials and JT.

That is a fair point and fair treatment by the refs starts firstly with the team becoming good and consistent and not playing like a pack of escaped arkham asylum inmates as far as discipline goes for a good year or so.

I don't think we get treated that badly by the refs tbh based on how poorly disciplined we are. They could ping us for back chat a lot more often than they do. When Whitehead was out there with Beej and Rapana it was just a **** convention

Pigman wrote: ↑July 13, 2018, 9:17 pm But as rightly pointed out earlier, when he trotted out as captain for our club he got given a **** bath by the officials and JT.

Are you saying he got outcaptained by jt? So the captain can have an impact on the refs? Incredible.
A captain in his first ever game captaining gets outcaptained by an established and elite player? Scenes!
You really are a confused individual when it comes to this captain debate

Not sure there is a captain debate. There are a few blokes who despite all evidence to the contrary think Croker shouldn't be captain.
If it is a debate than the nos are copping a hammering.
Absolutely certain no one at the Raiders is talking about this. Croker will be captain for a few years yet.

simo wrote: ↑July 14, 2018, 8:03 am

Pigman wrote: ↑July 13, 2018, 9:17 pm But as rightly pointed out earlier, when he trotted out as captain for our club he got given a **** bath by the officials and JT.

Are you saying he got outcaptained by jt? So the captain can have an impact on the refs? Incredible.
A captain in his first ever game captaining gets outcaptained by an established and elite player? Scenes!
You really are a confused individual when it comes to this captain debate

No. Im saying the guy who is supposed to be a clear cut much better captain by YOUR measures proved that he isnt likely to be any major upgrade... again, by YOUR measures.

Croker does fine as a captain, I think we all get damn frustrated by some of our results and look for someone to hang the blame on, prime candidates are coach, captain, halves and the club itself.

Often with very good reason too!

There is bias in the game and refs do give certain captains more leeway, not much Croker can do about that, im happy he doesnt carry on like a pork chop, he will grow into the role.

Pigman wrote: ↑July 14, 2018, 11:26 am

simo wrote: ↑July 14, 2018, 8:03 am

Pigman wrote: ↑July 13, 2018, 9:17 pm But as rightly pointed out earlier, when he trotted out as captain for our club he got given a **** bath by the officials and JT.

Are you saying he got outcaptained by jt? So the captain can have an impact on the refs? Incredible.
A captain in his first ever game captaining gets outcaptained by an established and elite player? Scenes!
You really are a confused individual when it comes to this captain debate

No. Im saying the guy who is supposed to be a clear cut much better captain by YOUR measures proved that he isnt likely to be any major upgrade... again, by YOUR measures.

What are these measures of MINE youre talking about? My opinion is that we have a team that continues to lose for many reasons and when you have a team thats failing you should explore all options to remedy that. Using one game against multiple seasons of failure shows how pointless it is to discush things with you.

Sun Coast Raider wrote: ↑July 14, 2018, 9:37 am Not sure there is a captain debate. There are a few blokes who despite all evidence to the contrary think Croker shouldn't be captain.
If it is a debate than the nos are copping a hammering.
Absolutely certain no one at the Raiders is talking about this. Croker will be captain for a few years yet.

I agree SCR and that to me is an issue. There is no magic bullet to fix our many problems but sides which are serially unsuccessful should look at everything. While ever Sticky is in the big chair there will be no change. No change of Captain, No change of defence, No change of fitness levels, No change because RS doesn't see the need for change. Same old Sticky producing Same old results.

simo wrote: ↑July 14, 2018, 1:25 pm What are these measures of MINE youre talking about? My opinion is that we have a team that continues to lose for many reasons and when you have a team thats failing you should explore all options to remedy that. Using one game against multiple seasons of failure shows how pointless it is to discush things with you.

And you laying multiple seasons of failure at the feet of the dude who was chosen to have a (c) next to his name and speak to the media shows how pointless this ENTIRE ‘discushion’ is

The club is failing because it’s board is absolute trash, the administration is useless, the coach is an abomination and IMO, largely thanks to that final point, the halves under performed

No one said **** about Croker’s Captaincy the coach had stumbled **** backwards into a successful football team. In fact he was voted Captain of the year by his peers and lauded on this site for how he’d “grown as a leader”
Haha

My father in law, who played both rugby codes and cricket at pretty high levels told me something years ago. He said “The easiest way to be a good captain is to have a good team”
It’s laughable how true that rings re: this debate

When we lose, Croker can’t captain
When we win, he’s captain of the year

And you know the other thing that rings true? It literally doesn’t matter one iota what fairytales of Hollywood leadership you believe in. As previously stated, whether Croker is a good captain isn’t remotely on the radar at the club, and thats because the club, the coach and MOST importantly the players themselves all have nothing but respect and admiration for the Jarrod Croker.

The men in the locker room feel he is the best man for the job, ultimately, that’s why he’s not only the captain but also the right man for the job, and certainly trumps the paper thin arguments thrown up here as reasons to dump him