Is Croker the right captain for the team

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Dr Zaius
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Dr Zaius »

Croker is fine as a captain. He turns up every game, gives his best, is a cleanskin and is reasonably well spoken. He doesn't get the respect he should from the refs but that's not on him.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by raiderskater »

Are you all happy now, Croker-haters?!
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Billy Walker »

raiderskater wrote: July 14, 2018, 8:22 pm Are you all happy now, Croker-haters?!
Don't be like that Skater... I don't think anyone hates him. I wouldn't be donating for a bronze statue of him in Goulburn, but I would kick in for him to spend his weekends there.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by -TW- »

raiderskater wrote:Are you all happy now, Croker-haters?!
Why would anyone be happy he got injured?
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Dr Zaius »

Billy Walker wrote:
raiderskater wrote: July 14, 2018, 8:22 pm Are you all happy now, Croker-haters?!
Don't be like that Skater... I don't think anyone hates him. I wouldn't be donating for a bronze statue of him in Goulburn, but I would kick in for him to spend his weekends there.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by raiderskater »

-TW- wrote: July 14, 2018, 10:05 pm
raiderskater wrote:Are you all happy now, Croker-haters?!
Why would anyone be happy he got injured?
I was just upset after he got injured. But all those people complaining we need a different captain, well guess what you just got your wish.

There were even jerks in this thread complaining he shouldn't even be playing first grade for us!
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Billy Walker »

raiderskater wrote: July 14, 2018, 10:13 pm
-TW- wrote: July 14, 2018, 10:05 pm
raiderskater wrote:Are you all happy now, Croker-haters?!
Why would anyone be happy he got injured?
I was just upset after he got injured. But all those people complaining we need a different captain, well guess what you just got your wish.

There were even jerks in this thread complaining he shouldn't even be playing first grade for us!
Don't be upset Skater - I'm pretty sure it's only a hokey pokey injury...

He had his right knee in, he blew his right knee out....
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Rickmando »

raiderskater wrote: July 14, 2018, 10:13 pm
-TW- wrote: July 14, 2018, 10:05 pm
raiderskater wrote:Are you all happy now, Croker-haters?!
Why would anyone be happy he got injured?
I was just upset after he got injured. But all those people complaining we need a different captain, well guess what you just got your wish.

There were even jerks in this thread complaining he shouldn't even be playing first grade for us!
Why would you expect anyone to have any meaningful dialogue with you when you so frequently fall back on name calling and hostility? You **** -can anyone’s opinion that doesn’t fit with yours.

Its obvious you’re a massive Croker-lover... now that’s a strong stance which is just the diametric opposite of a Croker-hater (btw literally no one on here would HATE him, and certainly no one would wish injury on any of our players that put their bodies on the line), should we all come at you and call you a jerk for so publicly staking out your position? No, didn’t think so... pull your head in.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Seiffert82 »

This whole thing about blaming Croker for our poor performances dead set has to be the most boring topic on the Greenhouse.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by greeneyed »

Interesting though from Nick on the previous page... my uncle was a coach in Brisbane footy for much of his life. He won a reserve grade premiership as a coach and coached extensively in junior grades. I asked him what made a good coach... and he said... having the cattle. Can't be a good coach without having good players.

Now I think that's a bit simplistic really, and I do think coaches have a much greater role than that. Maybe it just showed how player focused my uncle was as a coach. Or maybe that he thought talent identification and recruitment was the most important thing. And let's face it, he knew a lot more about footy than me. There's also a lot of truth in it. Look at what a coaching genius Brad Fittler has become... coincided with having the best players...

I don't think any of this is simple. I see the argument that a different sort of captain might make a difference. But I personally think Croker is a very good captain for the club, he leads by his character and what he does on field... not by telling people what they should do. I also think others should lead in their way, even if they don't have a C beside their name. I know Sia Soliola holds to that view... he can do the job expected, in terms of forward leadership, without being captain. It's the responsibility of the play makers to organise your team, including in clutch situations, not your centre. It is their job to show leadership, without having a C beside their name. In any case, and sadly due to injury, we will see if a different sort of captain does make a difference. Hodgo will no doubt be stand in captain, possibly for the rest of the season. It'll be an interesting experiment.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Seiffert82 »

I've always said a coach is only as good as his players. So has the likes of Wayne Bennett and Jack Gibson.

A captain can inspire players to lift under adversity, but their job isn't to sort out players who are consistently playing below the level they are capable of. That's the job of the coach.

Some people here seem to confuse the two roles.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by LastRaider »

I disagree. A good coach develops players into great players. Craig Bellamy is a prime example of that. He constantly finds lower tier players and puts them into his structure and they come out being great players. Players don’t make the coach!


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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by gangrenous »

LastRaider wrote:I disagree. A good coach develops players into great players. Craig Bellamy is a prime example of that. He constantly finds lower tier players and puts them into his structure and they come out being great players. Players don’t make the coach!


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But Bellamy’s structure works because it’s built around a brilliant spine.

A good coach makes players better. But they can’t turn **** into gold.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by RedRaider »

luke wrote: July 13, 2018, 2:25 pm
RedRaider wrote: July 13, 2018, 1:35 pm
simo wrote: July 12, 2018, 2:12 pm Croker in the post match to the tune of: i thought the game was lost and we had no chance. Austin came on an kept saying we still had time and we could still win this.
Our captains mindset was that we had lost while a bloke that we are shipping off and had demoted to the bench has the we can still win this attitude. Thats pretty sad
Interesting that in the final six minutes the Captain was not involved in any of the try scoring plays. Hodgo moved the ball to where opportunity beckoned.

GE, I don't have a preference when it comes to team position for who should be Captain. As in all things, the person demonstrating the best skills for the job should get the nod.
But Red, that's his job as the 9. Has nothing to do with the job of captain.
Hodgo has footy instincts and appears to be a natural leader.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by RedRaider »

greeneyed wrote: July 15, 2018, 10:13 am Interesting though from Nick on the previous page... my uncle was a coach in Brisbane footy for much of his life. He won a reserve grade premiership as a coach and coached extensively in junior grades. I asked him what made a good coach... and he said... having the cattle. Can't be a good coach without having good players.

Now I think that's a bit simplistic really, and I do think coaches have a much greater role than that. Maybe it just showed how player focused my uncle was as a coach. Or maybe that he thought talent identification and recruitment was the most important thing. And let's face it, he knew a lot more about footy than me. There's also a lot of truth in it. Look at what a coaching genius Brad Fittler has become... coincided with having the best players...

I don't think any of this is simple. I see the argument that a different sort of captain might make a difference. But I personally think Croker is a very good captain for the club, he leads by his character and what he does on field... not by telling people what they should do. I also think others should lead in their way, even if they don't have a C beside their name. I know Sia Soliola holds to that view... he can do the job expected, in terms of forward leadership, without being captain. It's the responsibility of the play makers to organise your team, including in clutch situations, not your centre. It is their job to show leadership, without having a C beside their name. In any case, and sadly due to injury, we will see if a different sort of captain does make a difference. Hodgo will no doubt be stand in captain, possibly for the rest of the season. It'll be an interesting experiment.
Yes it will be GE. I know you were at the match so didn't see the Fox coverage. At half time they had a camera in the Raiders dressing room. Hodgo went around to every player and had a word to them. Just a short chat about the job to be done. That's leadership. It could have been anyone in the team. It WAS Hodgo.

There are those who doubt the value of Captaincy and think a Captain has to come up with something Churchillian when speaking. Nothing could be further from the truth. He simply has to get a message across in whatever way the players can understand. Of course having the cattle matters, but if the cattle aren't guided in the right way then the goals of the team won't be met. In professional sport, the 'right way and goals' means on field success. If on field success is not happening then some things have to change.

i wish Jarrod Croker a speedy and full recovery from what I know is a painful injury. I now have a titanium right knee from a similar (dislocated knee) footy injury. Yes it does set the alarms off at airports and before boarding cruise ships.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by greeneyed »

RedRaider wrote: July 15, 2018, 3:59 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 15, 2018, 10:13 am Interesting though from Nick on the previous page... my uncle was a coach in Brisbane footy for much of his life. He won a reserve grade premiership as a coach and coached extensively in junior grades. I asked him what made a good coach... and he said... having the cattle. Can't be a good coach without having good players.

Now I think that's a bit simplistic really, and I do think coaches have a much greater role than that. Maybe it just showed how player focused my uncle was as a coach. Or maybe that he thought talent identification and recruitment was the most important thing. And let's face it, he knew a lot more about footy than me. There's also a lot of truth in it. Look at what a coaching genius Brad Fittler has become... coincided with having the best players...

I don't think any of this is simple. I see the argument that a different sort of captain might make a difference. But I personally think Croker is a very good captain for the club, he leads by his character and what he does on field... not by telling people what they should do. I also think others should lead in their way, even if they don't have a C beside their name. I know Sia Soliola holds to that view... he can do the job expected, in terms of forward leadership, without being captain. It's the responsibility of the play makers to organise your team, including in clutch situations, not your centre. It is their job to show leadership, without having a C beside their name. In any case, and sadly due to injury, we will see if a different sort of captain does make a difference. Hodgo will no doubt be stand in captain, possibly for the rest of the season. It'll be an interesting experiment.
Yes it will be GE. I know you were at the match so didn't see the Fox coverage. At half time they had a camera in the Raiders dressing room. Hodgo went around to every player and had a word to them. Just a short chat about the job to be done. That's leadership. It could have been anyone in the team. It WAS Hodgo.

There are those who doubt the value of Captaincy and think a Captain has to come up with something Churchillian when speaking. Nothing could be further from the truth. He simply has to get a message across in whatever way the players can understand. Of course having the cattle matters, but if the cattle aren't guided in the right way then the goals of the team won't be met. In professional sport, the 'right way and goals' means on field success. If on field success is not happening then some things have to change.

i wish Jarrod Croker a speedy and full recovery from what I know is a painful injury. I now have a titanium right knee from a similar (dislocated knee) footy injury. Yes it does set the alarms off at airports and before boarding cruise ships.
Red, I have seen the Fox coverage. But I'm not jumping to any conclusions from a snippet of vision from half time in one match. How do we know what Jarrod Croker does as captain when the cameras aren't broadcasting? We have seen Josh Hodgson in the captain's role at the start of 2017. I love Hodgo, but that didn't stop us losing both matches when he was captain. We've also seen Jarrod Croker captain the team to a Preliminary Final in 2016. He was Dally M captain of the year. Has his leadership suddenly deserted him? I don't think so.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by gangrenous »

Not to mention Hodgson not having a c next to his name on the team list doesn’t render the guy a mute. Pretty sure he can still talk to the other players about what they need to do without being captain.
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Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by LastRaider »

greeneyed wrote:
RedRaider wrote: July 15, 2018, 3:59 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 15, 2018, 10:13 am Interesting though from Nick on the previous page... my uncle was a coach in Brisbane footy for much of his life. He won a reserve grade premiership as a coach and coached extensively in junior grades. I asked him what made a good coach... and he said... having the cattle. Can't be a good coach without having good players.

Now I think that's a bit simplistic really, and I do think coaches have a much greater role than that. Maybe it just showed how player focused my uncle was as a coach. Or maybe that he thought talent identification and recruitment was the most important thing. And let's face it, he knew a lot more about footy than me. There's also a lot of truth in it. Look at what a coaching genius Brad Fittler has become... coincided with having the best players...

I don't think any of this is simple. I see the argument that a different sort of captain might make a difference. But I personally think Croker is a very good captain for the club, he leads by his character and what he does on field... not by telling people what they should do. I also think others should lead in their way, even if they don't have a C beside their name. I know Sia Soliola holds to that view... he can do the job expected, in terms of forward leadership, without being captain. It's the responsibility of the play makers to organise your team, including in clutch situations, not your centre. It is their job to show leadership, without having a C beside their name. In any case, and sadly due to injury, we will see if a different sort of captain does make a difference. Hodgo will no doubt be stand in captain, possibly for the rest of the season. It'll be an interesting experiment.
Yes it will be GE. I know you were at the match so didn't see the Fox coverage. At half time they had a camera in the Raiders dressing room. Hodgo went around to every player and had a word to them. Just a short chat about the job to be done. That's leadership. It could have been anyone in the team. It WAS Hodgo.

There are those who doubt the value of Captaincy and think a Captain has to come up with something Churchillian when speaking. Nothing could be further from the truth. He simply has to get a message across in whatever way the players can understand. Of course having the cattle matters, but if the cattle aren't guided in the right way then the goals of the team won't be met. In professional sport, the 'right way and goals' means on field success. If on field success is not happening then some things have to change.

i wish Jarrod Croker a speedy and full recovery from what I know is a painful injury. I now have a titanium right knee from a similar (dislocated knee) footy injury. Yes it does set the alarms off at airports and before boarding cruise ships.
Red, I have seen the Fox coverage. But I'm not jumping to any conclusions from a snippet of vision from half time in one match. How do we know what Jarrod Croker does as captain when the cameras aren't broadcasting? We have seen Josh Hodgson in the captain's role at the start of 2017. I love Hodgo, but that didn't stop us losing both matches when he was captain. We've also seen Jarrod Croker captain the team to a Preliminary Final in 2016. He was Dally M captain of the year. Has his leadership suddenly deserted him? I don't think so.
Yes leadership can desert you like coaching does to coaches. Often happens when you start to lose the dressing room as your peers start to question your position, impact and value.


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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by greeneyed »

Who says that is happening?
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by raiderskater »

LastRaider wrote: July 15, 2018, 6:14 pm Often happens when you start to lose the dressing room as your peers start to question your position, impact and value.
Say what? In what world do we have any evidence that this is occurring? The sweep play that goes through Croker is still one of our best plays and none of our playmakers have shown the slightest bit of desire to cut Croker out of it - in fact, Croker made a ridiculous pass on one leg yesterday and what was the first thing Oldy did when he scored? He turned back to his captain. What was one of the first things Cotric said in his interview last week? He praised his captain's skills. In fact, the playmakers have so much faith in their captain's skills the kickers were still looking for him after he got injured. Only last week Croker's skills were what built us something to launch from for our comeback.

To me the concept of stripping Croker of the captaincy is a stupid one, but whatever, fine. But the concept that Croker is not a first grade centre and shouldn't even be playing for us? What the heck are you lot smoking?!
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Botman »

Anyone who watched that game and saw the team respond to Croker’s injury, and his play thereafter before succumbing to his injury would laugh in the face of any fool suggesting Croker has lost the dressing room

I’m sure that’s not what LastRaider is suggesting, because that would be a major embarrassment
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Northern Raider »

Pigman wrote: July 15, 2018, 8:05 pm Anyone who watched that game and saw the team respond to Croker’s injury, and his play thereafter before succumbing to his injury would laugh in the face of any fool suggesting Croker has lost the dressing room

I’m sure that’s not what LastRaider is suggesting, because that would be a major embarrassment
Actually I’m starting to think Croker ran over one of LastRaider’s cats. His is an obsession that’s approaching similar levels to Aggafagga and Sezer.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by gangrenous »

I’m pretty sure Croker, Sezer and Garvey went on a bender together and ran over three cats on their way home.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

greeneyed wrote: July 15, 2018, 4:11 pm
RedRaider wrote: July 15, 2018, 3:59 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 15, 2018, 10:13 am Interesting though from Nick on the previous page... my uncle was a coach in Brisbane footy for much of his life. He won a reserve grade premiership as a coach and coached extensively in junior grades. I asked him what made a good coach... and he said... having the cattle. Can't be a good coach without having good players.

Now I think that's a bit simplistic really, and I do think coaches have a much greater role than that. Maybe it just showed how player focused my uncle was as a coach. Or maybe that he thought talent identification and recruitment was the most important thing. And let's face it, he knew a lot more about footy than me. There's also a lot of truth in it. Look at what a coaching genius Brad Fittler has become... coincided with having the best players...

I don't think any of this is simple. I see the argument that a different sort of captain might make a difference. But I personally think Croker is a very good captain for the club, he leads by his character and what he does on field... not by telling people what they should do. I also think others should lead in their way, even if they don't have a C beside their name. I know Sia Soliola holds to that view... he can do the job expected, in terms of forward leadership, without being captain. It's the responsibility of the play makers to organise your team, including in clutch situations, not your centre. It is their job to show leadership, without having a C beside their name. In any case, and sadly due to injury, we will see if a different sort of captain does make a difference. Hodgo will no doubt be stand in captain, possibly for the rest of the season. It'll be an interesting experiment.
Yes it will be GE. I know you were at the match so didn't see the Fox coverage. At half time they had a camera in the Raiders dressing room. Hodgo went around to every player and had a word to them. Just a short chat about the job to be done. That's leadership. It could have been anyone in the team. It WAS Hodgo.

There are those who doubt the value of Captaincy and think a Captain has to come up with something Churchillian when speaking. Nothing could be further from the truth. He simply has to get a message across in whatever way the players can understand. Of course having the cattle matters, but if the cattle aren't guided in the right way then the goals of the team won't be met. In professional sport, the 'right way and goals' means on field success. If on field success is not happening then some things have to change.

i wish Jarrod Croker a speedy and full recovery from what I know is a painful injury. I now have a titanium right knee from a similar (dislocated knee) footy injury. Yes it does set the alarms off at airports and before boarding cruise ships.
Red, I have seen the Fox coverage. But I'm not jumping to any conclusions from a snippet of vision from half time in one match. How do we know what Jarrod Croker does as captain when the cameras aren't broadcasting? We have seen Josh Hodgson in the captain's role at the start of 2017. I love Hodgo, but that didn't stop us losing both matches when he was captain. We've also seen Jarrod Croker captain the team to a Preliminary Final in 2016. He was Dally M captain of the year. Has his leadership suddenly deserted him? I don't think so.
I'm not too fussed on this debate either way, but does the same apply to Ricky winning Dally M Coach of the Year in 2016? Does that give him 4 or 5 years' grace?

I don't place anything on the Dally M's. They generally just give the position and season long awards to whoever is performing in August. I still have no idea how Wiki missed Second Rower of the Year in 2002 - it haunts me :roflmao
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Botman »

In fairness to Stuart, he WAS a good coach in 2016. He stacked the pack with giant humans, rolled everyone up the middle and sent it wide to the backs who cut teams on the retreat to pieces. That IS a good coaching job... the problem was and is, teams figured it out, they just need to run the big boys around, keep the ball in play, play possession, wait for the big boys to tire and come over the top, also we were terrible defensive unit on our goal line, so teams playing field position and waiting for half a dozen errors in our half was enough... the league quickly countered us, and Stuart still hasnt figured out the counter to their counter.

But 2016 was objectively a great coaching job. Stuart put together a team and plan that, with a bit injury luck (Hodgson, Croker and Beej getting hurt at the wrong time of the year) and Edrick Lee not dropping about 3 tries in tight games, could have won the league.

This is the problem with Stuart though, and it's historical, he comes into a team, he figures out a single path to success, but then cant evolve to get to the next plan. He just stays the course, treading water watching everyone swim past.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by hrundi89 »

Paps in particular looked him in the eye showing a lot of empathy and I thought that was a nice moment in the circumstances.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Pigman wrote: July 16, 2018, 10:03 am In fairness to Stuart, he WAS a good coach in 2016. He stacked the pack with giant humans, rolled everyone up the middle and sent it wide to the backs who cut teams on the retreat to pieces. That IS a good coaching job... the problem was and is, teams figured it out, they just need to run the big boys around, keep the ball in play, play possession, wait for the big boys to tire and come over the top, also we were terrible defensive unit on our goal line, so teams playing field position and waiting for half a dozen errors in our half was enough... the league quickly countered us, and Stuart still hasnt figured out the counter to their counter.

But 2016 was objectively a great coaching job. Stuart put together a team and plan that, with a bit injury luck (Hodgson, Croker and Beej getting hurt at the wrong time of the year) and Edrick Lee not dropping about 3 tries in tight games, could have won the league.

This is the problem with Stuart though, and it's historical, he comes into a team, he figures out a single path to success, but then cant evolve to get to the next plan. He just stays the course, treading water watching everyone swim past.
I agree, my only point is that Dally M awards don't mean anything other than the season they apply to.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Relax-init »

Finally, now we will see if what I claimed is true. Hodgo has the team and lets see how well he game manages it. Smith 2.0
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by BadnMean »

Pigman wrote: July 16, 2018, 10:03 am In fairness to Stuart, he WAS a good coach in 2016. He stacked the pack with giant humans, rolled everyone up the middle and sent it wide to the backs who cut teams on the retreat to pieces. That IS a good coaching job... the problem was and is, teams figured it out, they just need to run the big boys around, keep the ball in play, play possession, wait for the big boys to tire and come over the top, also we were terrible defensive unit on our goal line, so teams playing field position and waiting for half a dozen errors in our half was enough... the league quickly countered us, and Stuart still hasnt figured out the counter to their counter.

But 2016 was objectively a great coaching job. Stuart put together a team and plan that, with a bit injury luck (Hodgson, Croker and Beej getting hurt at the wrong time of the year) and Edrick Lee not dropping about 3 tries in tight games, could have won the league.

This is the problem with Stuart though, and it's historical, he comes into a team, he figures out a single path to success, but then cant evolve to get to the next plan. He just stays the course, treading water watching everyone swim past.

Nice analysis. Posts like that make the GH worth browsing through. Pretty accurate summation and even handed on Rick's +/-.

To be fair, he's seen the writing on the wall with his giant pack and is clearly trying to transition to something new in 2019. Whether he really has any idea how to do that... Who knows?

Spot on that his stubbornness sees him stick to a formula way too long. Or shows up as loyalty to a player when a change might really be better. I'm worried about what we do with Cotric. This needs be his last year on the wing for his and the clubs sake but with Cappy and Jacky in his way plus BJ our most destructive player...
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Botman »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 16, 2018, 10:35 am
Pigman wrote: July 16, 2018, 10:03 am In fairness to Stuart, he WAS a good coach in 2016. He stacked the pack with giant humans, rolled everyone up the middle and sent it wide to the backs who cut teams on the retreat to pieces. That IS a good coaching job... the problem was and is, teams figured it out, they just need to run the big boys around, keep the ball in play, play possession, wait for the big boys to tire and come over the top, also we were terrible defensive unit on our goal line, so teams playing field position and waiting for half a dozen errors in our half was enough... the league quickly countered us, and Stuart still hasnt figured out the counter to their counter.

But 2016 was objectively a great coaching job. Stuart put together a team and plan that, with a bit injury luck (Hodgson, Croker and Beej getting hurt at the wrong time of the year) and Edrick Lee not dropping about 3 tries in tight games, could have won the league.

This is the problem with Stuart though, and it's historical, he comes into a team, he figures out a single path to success, but then cant evolve to get to the next plan. He just stays the course, treading water watching everyone swim past.
I agree, my only point is that Dally M awards don't mean anything other than the season they apply to.
Fair. Ive never been high on the Dally M's
Not since Andrew Johns was getting 2 or 1 point in games they were completely out played. It's just a boys club.

But re: Croker's captaincy, again no one complains about it when we're winning. The job of a captain is way more about what they do between Monday and Friday than it is what they do on game day. And as far as that is concerned, as well as on field, everyone at the club, to a man, thinks he's **** terrific. I doubt there is a single person within the group who believes in ditching Croker as captain.

I'll side with them over opinions based on how the captain did things in the 1930s, or what Hodgson did in a 5 second clip on Fox Sports, or based on the fact we've lost a lot of games late in the 80 minutes (re: my point about the size of our squad, we're the faiders for those reasons more than anything)

Who else is best to judge what sort of leader or captain Croker is? The fans who see 80 minutes a week, or the playing group he leads 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, and club he is the face of?
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by yeh raiders »

Or the coach who brought in Mal Meninga to improve Croker’s captaincy?
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Botman »

He brought Meninga in to do "something with Jarrod, and the other players."
And to help turn Croker from a good captain to a "great one"

You're being very disingenuous to extrapolate bringing in the face of this entire Club, and the captain of all 3 of our premierships, into help mentor the leadership group as some sort proof Stuart thinks Croker is a bad captain. He's been effusive in his praise of Croker as captain.

It's akin to saying the Roosters dont much rate Cronk and Keary as halves, otherwise why would they have hired Andrew Johns to come in to coach them?
Everyone in sport is forever trying to constantly improve. That's part of what gets them to this level, the desire to always be better.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Pigman wrote: July 16, 2018, 11:58 am Fair. Ive never been high on the Dally M's
Not since Andrew Johns was getting 2 or 1 point in games they were completely out played. It's just a boys club.

But re: Croker's captaincy, again no one complains about it when we're winning. The job of a captain is way more about what they do between Monday and Friday than it is what they do on game day. And as far as that is concerned, as well as on field, everyone at the club, to a man, thinks he's **** terrific. I doubt there is a single person within the group who believes in ditching Croker as captain.

I'll side with them over opinions based on how the captain did things in the 1930s, or what Hodgson did in a 5 second clip on Fox Sports, or based on the fact we've lost a lot of games late in the 80 minutes (re: my point about the size of our squad, we're the faiders for those reasons more than anything)

Who else is best to judge what sort of leader or captain Croker is? The fans who see 80 minutes a week, or the playing group he leads 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, and club he is the face of?
I'm of the opinion that if I was choosing the captain today then I'd go for Hodgo. I don't think there is enough in it to get rid of Croker as the incumbent though, he does an adequate job.
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by Botman »

Yeah i'd probably agree on that, if Croker was forced to retire or signed elsewhere, i think the club would just stick the C on Hodgson and not think twice. If Hodgson was here in'14 and established at the time, he'd have been the natural successor to Campese.
But he wasn't and none of this stuff matters enough to a change now we have an incumbent who has the support and backing of the players group.

The only time captains change is when the captain retires, occasionally when a new coach comes in and they phase the old one out via co-captains, or the current captain has some kind of off the field incident.
I could see a scenario in 2 years time of Stuart being sacked or moved on into another area of the organisation and the new Coach going with the phased co-captain approach. But Stuart isnt going to turf Croker and nor should he
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Re: Is Croker the right captain for the team

Post by yeh raiders »

Pigman wrote: July 16, 2018, 1:34 pm He brought Meninga in to do "something with Jarrod, and the other players."
And to help turn Croker from a good captain to a "great one"

You're being very disingenuous to extrapolate bringing in the face of this entire Club, and the captain of all 3 of our premierships, into help mentor the leadership group as some sort proof Stuart thinks Croker is a bad captain. He's been effusive in his praise of Croker as captain.

It's akin to saying the Roosters dont much rate Cronk and Keary as halves, otherwise why would they have hired Andrew Johns to come in to coach them?
Everyone in sport is forever trying to constantly improve. That's part of what gets them to this level, the desire to always be better.
You’re right, it’s exactly like bringing in Johns to improve the halves.

Ricky identified his captain as needing to develop and improve as a leader and brought in literally one of the best captains of all time to try and make it happen.

It’s just the facts of the situation.
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