Is Croker the right captain for the team

[Botman]

What's the implication here? Anyone Coach wanting their players to improve is unhappy with their players?
Paul Green no doubt pushed JT to continue to improve his game at the peak of his powers, so was he unhappy with his level or play?

Do you think Tim Sheens was pushing Mal Meninga to improve his game in late 80's, early 90's? Are we to read into that that Sheens didnt think Meninga was up to the task?

[RedRaider]

Red, I have seen the Fox coverage. But I'm not jumping to any conclusions from a snippet of vision from half time in one match. How do we know what Jarrod Croker does as captain when the cameras aren't broadcasting? We have seen Josh Hodgson in the captain's role at the start of 2017. I love Hodgo, but that didn't stop us losing both matches when he was captain. We've also seen Jarrod Croker captain the team to a Preliminary Final in 2016. He was Dally M captain of the year. Has his leadership suddenly deserted him? I don't think so.

GE, I think Captaincy is, like all other player outcomes, subject to form. A bit like why Thaiday no longer is selected for Qld. His form no longer warrants it. Same with the Morris twins for NSW. Can you tell me what criteria go into the Dally M captain of the year award?

As for Hodgo's previous 'brief' stint in the captaincy at the start of a season, are you blaming him for where the side was clearly under prepared, just like this year? It is not off field preparation I am talking about. We saw a demonstration of leadership in the sheds last weekend with Hodgo. You say the cameras may not have been rolling for Croker. It is now many years as a Captain for when the cameras are not rolling either in the dressing room or on field after another soft try has been let it. I don't blame Croker for other players failings, I simply say that strong Captaincy is noticed when it's missing.

So there are no doubts, I think Jarrod Croker is a really good bloke. I met him when I did the pre-match coin toss in 2016 for my birthday. I think everyone who meets him also thinks he is a really good bloke. His quality as a person is not in question. The only question that should be asked, is he the best person to be Captain of the side in 2018? Many will answer Yes. Next week we will see another player as Captain. I'm sure all on here wish him well. It will be a different style. The side gets an opportunity against a top 8 side in form. We have struggled against such sides all year. Go Hodgo! Go Raiders!

[Northern Raider]

It's been said many times before and is still relevant to this argument. You do not need a (c) beside your name to provide leadership on the field. Hodgo as our dummy half does the job he's expected to do and does it extremely well. Just like every other quality hooker in the comp. Making him captain won't make an ounce of difference. Hodgo will continue to be Hodgo.

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[RedRaider]

NR, I think a Captain does have more to do on field. The No9,7,6 can call the plays but the captain also has a time when he needs to communicate with the rest of the team and get them going in the right direction. I think Hodgo has that in him. I don't know that JC has.

[Ultima]

I think all the quotes in this one article alone should be a STFU moment for all the people crying he isn't "the right captain for the team". The entire team seems to think he is and most of you seem to not actually even know what a captain actually does out there and think it's some magical demi-god like figure...

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/raider ... 4zrp5.html

"Losing captain is like losing a limb really," Bateman said.

"Everyone looks up to him, he’s played over 200 games and the experience he brings and calmness he brings to the team is huge."

"It’s a big loss, Toots, for the club and for the team itself," Havili said.

"We’ve got Hodgo and we’ve got Sia, we’ve got a lot of senior players that can take on that leadership role and it’s something all the boys will be used to because Hodgo and that are pretty much leaders themselves."

[yeh raiders]

What's the implication here? Anyone Coach wanting their players to improve is unhappy with their players?
Paul Green no doubt pushed JT to continue to improve his game at the peak of his powers, so was he unhappy with his level or play?

Do you think Tim Sheens was pushing Mal Meninga to improve his game in late 80's, early 90's? Are we to read into that that Sheens didnt think Meninga was up to the task?

Not about being happy/unhappy with particular players. I don’t know a flawless player. As far as I’m concerned, Cameron Smith and Andrew Johns are as close as it gets in my time.

Anyone else should welcome the opportunity to improve aspects of their game, training, nutrition etc and if they
don’t, they’re just arrogant. Not suggesting JC didn’t, by all accounts it’s the opposite so good on him.

But the point being made is the thing that’s being argued here, JC’s ability to lead our team on the field toward a premiership, and is exactly what Ricky brought in an expert to try and improve.

If anything this season has further cemented our status as an icon for mediocrity. Coached by a mediocre coach and captained by a middle of the road player/middle of the road leader.

That’s my take on it and I’d love to see us give the reigns to a world class player like Josh Hodgson, to lead by example and lead us around the park.

[Botman]

So you weren't insinuating that Stuart is unhappy with Croker's captaincy as evidenced by bringing Meninga in as a mentor role?
Good, because it kind of read that way and that would be ridiculous.

Personally, i'd love to see a new ownership group come in, who wipes the slate clean... including board, ceo and coach, and gets a group of people in running this club who are competent at what they do. I dont think Croker v Hodgson getting the captain's gig is even in the top 100 problems at this club. Legitimately. I think this forum could brain storm 100 problems with this club and it's situation that would be more have a more significant impact on the on-field performance than the fact Croker is captain, and not Hodgson.

Especially considering it is painfully clear Hodgson, in terms of on field leadership and decision making, isn't holding back. He's as vocal as any and our current captain welcomes that, like good leaders do, Croker is willing to listen to other voices. Bae's voice is being heard, loud and clear. Giving him the C would literally change nothing on field.
They'll still take the 2 on penalties when the coach demands it, they'll still tap and go when the coach demands it, they'll still whinge and complain to officials for no apparent reason, because that's the message from the top down, and there still wont be any "Inch by inch" style monologues behind the try line.

[gangrenous]

I think it would be fun to brainstorm the 100:
1. The coach won’t accept there’s a mental problem

[raiderskater]

I think all the quotes in this one article alone should be a STFU moment for all the people crying he isn't "the right captain for the team". The entire team seems to think he is and most of you seem to not actually even know what a captain actually does out there and think it's some magical demi-god like figure...

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/raider ... 4zrp5.html

"Losing captain is like losing a limb really," Bateman said.

"Everyone looks up to him, he’s played over 200 games and the experience he brings and calmness he brings to the team is huge."

"It’s a big loss, Toots, for the club and for the team itself," Havili said.

"We’ve got Hodgo and we’ve got Sia, we’ve got a lot of senior players that can take on that leadership role and it’s something all the boys will be used to because Hodgo and that are pretty much leaders themselves."

But - but - but Ultima, doncha know he's lost the dressing room?! That he's not Cameron Smith?!

[Botman]

I think it would be fun to brainstorm the 100:
1. The coach won’t accept there’s a mental problem

lets bookmark this for the off season. I've got some thoughts on this!

[raiderskater]

Unexpected bonus to the idea of Croker being out for the next three games at least:

That filthy dog cheat Cameron Smith can't coward-hit his injured knee again.

Oh wait, I forgot, Smith's supposed to be what we want, right?

[Billy Walker]

Unexpected bonus to the idea of Croker being out for the next three games at least:

That filthy dog cheat Cameron Smith can't coward-hit his injured knee again.

Oh wait, I forgot, Smith's supposed to be what we want, right?

He's gone for the season Skater

[Northern Raider]

I think it would be fun to brainstorm the 100:
1. The coach won’t accept there’s a mental problem

lets bookmark this for the off season. I've got some thoughts on this!

The type of water bottle we use would be on my list. Probably on par with which player is named Captain, so may not make the top 100.

[LP Raider]

I think it would be fun to brainstorm the 100:
1. The coach won’t accept there’s a mental problem

2. Defence.

[Ultima]

I think it would be fun to brainstorm the 100:
1. The coach won’t accept there’s a mental problem

lets bookmark this for the off season. I've got some thoughts on this!

3. Some seem to think it's not already the off season, also when did we have an on season?

[RedRaider]

Agree with LP Raider (Defence) this is our most pressing on field issue by a street. (I may have mentioned this once or twice over the years )

I would like to put in a few positives as well though. So far in 2018 (I accept that this may change over the next 7 weeks) we are once again a Top 8 attacking side (currently a top 4 attacking side). Our player injury recovery times have improved immensely since the likes of Tom LL missing large chunks of most seasons. Recruitment/development have seen the likes of Hodgo, EW, Rapa, Tapine,/ Papa, Cotric etc come through with more youngsters awaiting opportunity and we have picked up some other FG quality players in Havili and Oldfield. The Club appears to be financially secure. No other fan base has anything like the 'Raiders Clap' which is inspiring to even non Raider fans.

I am an optimist by nature so I'll go and sit in my poso's corner now.

[LastRaider]

Agree with LP Raider (Defence) this is our most pressing on field issue by a street. (I may have mentioned this once or twice over the years )

I would like to put in a few positives as well though. So far in 2018 (I accept that this may change over the next 7 weeks) we are once again a Top 8 attacking side (currently a top 4 attacking side). Our player injury recovery times have improved immensely since the likes of Tom LL missing large chunks of most seasons. Recruitment/development have seen the likes of Hodgo, EW, Rapa, Tapine,/ Papa, Cotric etc come through with more youngsters awaiting opportunity and we have picked up some other FG quality players in Havili and Oldfield. The Club appears to be financially secure. No other fan base has anything like the 'Raiders Clap' which is inspiring to even non Raider fans.

I am an optimist by nature so I'll go and sit in my poso's corner now.

I agree with your points Red, however I some what disagree with recruitment. We have developed players well like Wighton, Cotric, Papa etc however we have not recruited well externally. Sticky came in and switched the focus from junior development to more external recruitment however he has not been successful. Junior Paulo has probably been our best high profile recruit. Whitehead and Hodgson have been our best of course, but I don’t believe they were that higher profile at the time.


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[Ultima]

So yeah, looking great with-out Croker... If he can somehow make us look less **** than we do now he is certainly is the right captain for the team... We look uninterested and flat as **** out there...

This obviously ignores that a captain doesn't do anywhere near as much as some seems to think he does. We are mentally weak, don't seem to do any prep work in a lead up to a game, and are just **** regardless of who has a (C) next to their name.

[greeneyed]

I don't say this with the aim of disrespecting Josh Hodgson... but I don't see any difference with him in the captain's role. Maybe this captain thing is a complete furphy.

[gangrenous]

[Northern Raider]

I don't say this with the aim of disrespecting Josh Hodgson... but I don't see any difference with him in the captain's role. Maybe this captain thing is a complete furphy.

Realistically the captain cannot influence a poorly coached team. Doesn’t matter which of those guys wears the badge.

[gangrenous]

We need a captain willing to stage a coup and take prisoners.

[Botman]

I don't say this with the aim of disrespecting Josh Hodgson... but I don't see any difference with him in the captain's role. Maybe this captain thing is a complete furphy.

Hodgson is always Bae
I’d leave my wife for a sniff of his jock strap

So yeah no disrespect. He continues to be one of my favourite raiders of all time
As it appears to turn out, the Captain makes no tangible difference to this squads performance and referee treatment

Imagine for a moment, if you will, my surprise

[Seiffert82]

Knocking Croker as captain, arguably our most consistent and professional player over the past 5 or so seasons, has seriously got to be the biggest red herring I've seen on this forum.

And there has been a few to choose from just quietly.

[Lui_Bon]

No knock on Croker (unlike knock-on everyone else) but I liked the passion of Hodgson taking it up to the refs. It achieved nothing. But maybe it will, one day.

[Brew]

Well Hodgson still hasn’t won a game as skipper. He is good at media conferences, getting in the refs face but what’s the point. I think he gets frustrated more and it effects his game. Croker still as captain thanks.


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[raiderskater]

No knock on Croker (unlike knock-on everyone else) but I liked the passion of Hodgson taking it up to the refs. It achieved nothing. But maybe it will, one day.

Croker goes up to the refs all the time, and from what I can see, he and Hodgson get the same treatment. "Go away, we have to listen to Ref Boss Smith right now."

[Northern Raider]

Croker's captaincy still a problem?

[afgtnk]

Yes.

You do know there's more than one problem at this club?

[Botman]

If you want to change the captain, that's cool... but i just think we can finally put to bed the argument that a different captain would stop the capitulations at the end of the game and that a different captain wouldnt get railroaded by the officials

We can surely agree now that those two reasons for wanting a new captain arent viable anymore, yeah?

[afgtnk]

A simple change of captain alone will not fix something systemic like our late game fades. That is a huge issue. I'm not sure where anyone's said that, and I don't think that was the point people are trying to make. It's a part of a number of changes that need to happen.

From what I can see in the last few games Hodgson does seem to command more respect from the refs though.

[Northern Raider]

Surely we can now all agree it makes SFA difference who the captain is.

[luke]

Sac k Crocker

[gangrenous]

A simple change of captain alone will not fix something systemic like our late game fades. That is a huge issue. I'm not sure where anyone's said that, and I don't think that was the point people are trying to make. It's a part of a number of changes that need to happen.

From what I can see in the last few games Hodgson does seem to command more respect from the refs though.

Croker most certainly was blamed for the fades. Feel free to reread the thread.

Hodgson has overseen one of the worst rogerings from the refs in recent memory, and today was also poor. How is he gaining more respect exactly? The refs call him sir as they have their way?

[luke]

A simple change of captain alone will not fix something systemic like our late game fades. That is a huge issue. I'm not sure where anyone's said that, and I don't think that was the point people are trying to make. It's a part of a number of changes that need to happen.

From what I can see in the last few games Hodgson does seem to command more respect from the refs though.

Croker most certainly was blamed for the fades. Feel free to reread the thread.

Hodgson has overseen one of the worst rogerings from the refs in recent memory, and today was also poor. How is he gaining more respect exactly? The refs call him sir as they have their way?

End thread/