Junior Paulo to depart Raiders at end of 2018

[reptar]

I just read an article saying our board won't allow players to be resigned on contracts exceeding 2 years. I've heard this played a big part in juniors decision and it seems out of sync with the rest of the game who are signing their younger starts to long contracts. What would be the motivation for this? Seems pretty short sighted to me. There are 2 primary variables in contracts. That is $ and years. If we aren't prepared to match our competitors on length of contract, won't that mean we'll have to pay overs to keep players?

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rugby-l ... 4zayr.html

If that is accurate then we are even more screwed than we think.

Does this also apply to coaching and management staff? Somehow, I doubt it.

Getting very hard to support a club run as such an old boys club.

If this is accurate it is pure insanity.

The board should have nothing to do with player contract lengths that should all be made by the coaching staff.

The board have more important things to do, like scouring Queanbeyan for our next coach

[The Nickman]

The only one I regret is Vaughan. I didn't like that at all from the start.

I dont regret Barnett in the context of how it shook out, it was essentially a swap for Tapine and i know which of those two is the better and more talented player.
It's just an example, along with Vaughan and TPJ of how the current team of Stuart-Mulholland-Furner have mismanaged some very good talent to the point where they've wanted out ASAP.

Maybe all three leave anyways, but id like to live in a world when our coaching and management structure know how to handle these sorts of talents so we are maximising, rather than minimising our chances of keeping these sorts of talents long term.
I mean Nic Cotric is going to get a lot of attention in the next 12 months and at this stage of proceedings, who, honestly, hand on heart would blame him for leaving? I wouldnt.

On current form there won't be too many clubs lining up for Cotric. He is struggling this season.

You’re joking, right? I’m assuming this is a joke

Even “struggling”, Nick Cotric is one of our best each week

[The Nickman]

The only one I regret is Vaughan. I didn't like that at all from the start.

Yep I agree on Vaughan as well. But he did need something to up his output, as I think even he admits he wasn’t at his peak in 2016.

Ricky wasn't even picking him, how in hell can you peak.

Who knows had Ricky picked him late in 16 and gave him the right minutes we could have made the big dance.

He was our best prop and everyone except stupid knew it.

This is 100% spot on, LT Smash. Paul Vaughan at his “worst” was still our best prop, and letting him go is going to be the biggest mistake of the Ricky Stuart era

And there’ll be plenty

[Roger Kenworthy]

The only one I regret is Vaughan. I didn't like that at all from the start.

I dont regret Barnett in the context of how it shook out, it was essentially a swap for Tapine and i know which of those two is the better and more talented player.
It's just an example, along with Vaughan and TPJ of how the current team of Stuart-Mulholland-Furner have mismanaged some very good talent to the point where they've wanted out ASAP.

Maybe all three leave anyways, but id like to live in a world when our coaching and management structure know how to handle these sorts of talents so we are maximising, rather than minimising our chances of keeping these sorts of talents long term.
I mean Nic Cotric is going to get a lot of attention in the next 12 months and at this stage of proceedings, who, honestly, hand on heart would blame him for leaving? I wouldnt.

On current form there won't be too many clubs lining up for Cotric. He is struggling this season.

You’re joking, right? I’m assuming this is a joke

Even “struggling”, Nick Cotric is one of our best each week

Well I know they'll still be lining up based on potential. I don't think he has been great this year though - plenty of errors and has been solid off our own line.

Not many opportunities in attack behind out busted pack to look good though.

[The Nickman]

Your definition of “plenty of errors” and mine are completely different things then, Ed

I’d be highly surprised if he’s even averaging more than 1 error a game

[Ruben Daley]

I simply cannot believe that two-year rule. Maybe a decision to lean towards shorter contracts but surely no board would implement something so limiting. Would be insane.

Vaughan was still awesome during 2016 when he was in ressies half the time. Don’t know if anyone would have been happy with re-signing him for the alleged $600K+ a season the Dragons offered him though.

[Roger Kenworthy]

Your definition of “plenty of errors” and mine are completely different things then, Ed

I’d be highly surprised if he’s even averaging more than 1 error a game

I hadn't checked but 4th equal in the comp according to NRL stats -> https://www.nrl.com/stats/

Bottom line I really don't think anyone on our team has pushed their market value up this year with on field performance.

[The Nickman]

Well there you go. I certainly don’t think he’s playing as well as last season, but I still think he’s been one of our best this year and certainly isn’t playing bad by any measure

[-TW-]

I simply cannot believe that two-year rule. Maybe a decision to lean towards shorter contracts but surely no board would implement something so limiting. Would be insane.

Vaughan was still awesome during 2016 when he was in ressies half the time. Don’t know if anyone would have been happy with re-signing him for the alleged $600K+ a season the Dragons offered him though.

That was a risk at the time though they were in a bit of a hole at the time with their pack, he's definitely worth it on current form

[yurithe1]

I saw this reported in an article by Danny Weidler in Fairfax Media (which owns Canberra Times). Regardless of how people might feel about him, he has an extensive collection of contacts and people are keen to get in touch with him, especially if it plays to their agenda.

Only agendas that might be at play here in relation to Junior's contract could be maybe not wanting to be seen as chasing the dollars or disharmony in the team or with the coach.

[edwahu]

I wouldn't offer any of our off contract players more than 2 years and I wouldn't sign any of the players on the market to more than that either. There is no need.

[gangrenous]

If this is accurate it is pure insanity.

The board should have nothing to do with player contract lengths that should all be made by the coaching staff.

Should they instead sit of the hands while the current coaching staff (who may or may not be here long term) paint us into a **** corner long term?!

Seems like a good move from the board to start fixing the cap management that has been completely **** recently.

Some of you guys... SMDH

Honestly it’s the best indication that Ricky is on thin ice with the board yet...

[Schifty]

I think four year deals are too risky but three year contracts should definitely be left as option.

Two years is just too short for a maximum contract length.


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[edwahu]

I know everyone did mega deals the last couple of years but that was due to the cap increases. I think the future is more mercenary 2 year deals with 3 years for a few select players and longer for maybe one or two in a squad. IMO somewhere between 50-75% of players are very easily replaced.

[Sossman]

I think four year deals are too risky but three year contracts should definitely be left as option.

Two years is just too short for a maximum contract length.


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I honestly thought 3 year deals were the norm across the NRL.

I would like to see our contracts move more towards the NFL (but maybe not as biased towards the teams as that).

There should be release clauses for inability to perform (long term injuries) and material slumps in form (maybe linked to key stats / metrics).

Our salary cap should also have mechanisms to offset cap hits from long-term injured players... like the IR and PUP lists in the NFL.


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[edwahu]

Yep, imo we are definitely a club that can't afford to have players feeling comfortable or settled.

[Schifty]

I think four year deals are too risky but three year contracts should definitely be left as option.

Two years is just too short for a maximum contract length.


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I honestly thought 3 year deals were the norm across the NRL.

I would like to see our contracts move more towards the NFL (but maybe not as biased towards the teams as that).

There should be release clauses for inability to perform (long term injuries) and material slumps in form (maybe linked to key stats / metrics).

Our salary cap should also have mechanisms to offset cap hits from long-term injured players... like the IR and PUP lists in the NFL.


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I'm fine with two years being a general policy but to have it as a blanket rule is madness.

If we were offered Nathan Cleary would we still apply this rule?

Anothet question is how this policy has been leaked to the media..

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[Botman]

Your definition of “plenty of errors” and mine are completely different things then, Ed

I’d be highly surprised if he’s even averaging more than 1 error a game

I hadn't checked but 4th equal in the comp according to NRL stats -> https://www.nrl.com/stats/

Bottom line I really don't think anyone on our team has pushed their market value up this year with on field performance.

He's also 19 years old and has about 30 games to his name, playing pretty well in a trash team and an idiot coach. You're kidding yourself if you think he wouldnt be in VERY high demand if he was available

[The Nickman]

Your definition of “plenty of errors” and mine are completely different things then, Ed

I’d be highly surprised if he’s even averaging more than 1 error a game

I hadn't checked but 4th equal in the comp according to NRL stats -> https://www.nrl.com/stats/

Bottom line I really don't think anyone on our team has pushed their market value up this year with on field performance.

He's also 19 years old and has about 30 games to his name, playing pretty well in a trash team and an idiot coach. You're kidding yourself if you think he wouldnt be in VERY high demand if he was available

I genuinely laughed out loud at that one

[Ilanraiders]

I just read an article saying our board won't allow players to be resigned on contracts exceeding 2 years. I've heard this played a big part in juniors decision and it seems out of sync with the rest of the game who are signing their younger starts to long contracts. What would be the motivation for this? Seems pretty short sighted to me. There are 2 primary variables in contracts. That is $ and years. If we aren't prepared to match our competitors on length of contract, won't that mean we'll have to pay overs to keep players?

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rugby-l ... 4zayr.html

They should sign the coach for two years as well.
Dumb!!

[Wiki Special]

The only one I regret is Vaughan. I didn't like that at all from the start.

I dont regret Barnett in the context of how it shook out, it was essentially a swap for Tapine and i know which of those two is the better and more talented player.
It's just an example, along with Vaughan and TPJ of how the current team of Stuart-Mulholland-Furner have mismanaged some very good talent to the point where they've wanted out ASAP.

Maybe all three leave anyways, but id like to live in a world when our coaching and management structure know how to handle these sorts of talents so we are maximising, rather than minimising our chances of keeping these sorts of talents long term.
I mean Nic Cotric is going to get a lot of attention in the next 12 months and at this stage of proceedings, who, honestly, hand on heart would blame him for leaving? I wouldnt.

On current form there won't be too many clubs lining up for Cotric. He is struggling this season.

Ummmm....what? I would say every club in the competition that had the opportunity to sign Cotric would do all they could to nab him.

[-PJ-]

Never trust a dude named Roger.

[Roger Kenworthy]

The only one I regret is Vaughan. I didn't like that at all from the start.

I dont regret Barnett in the context of how it shook out, it was essentially a swap for Tapine and i know which of those two is the better and more talented player.
It's just an example, along with Vaughan and TPJ of how the current team of Stuart-Mulholland-Furner have mismanaged some very good talent to the point where they've wanted out ASAP.

Maybe all three leave anyways, but id like to live in a world when our coaching and management structure know how to handle these sorts of talents so we are maximising, rather than minimising our chances of keeping these sorts of talents long term.
I mean Nic Cotric is going to get a lot of attention in the next 12 months and at this stage of proceedings, who, honestly, hand on heart would blame him for leaving? I wouldnt.

On current form there won't be too many clubs lining up for Cotric. He is struggling this season.

Ummmm....what? I would say every club in the competition that had the opportunity to sign Cotric would do all they could to nab him.

Like I said I'm sure they would on potential. You guys have your Raiders goggles on if you think he has been anything special this season - definite 2nd year syndrome so far.

[-PJ-]

10 pages of Paulo and his teammates don't know what's going on....

Leave already..

I'll drive the truck.

[Ruben Daley]

I simply cannot believe that two-year rule. Maybe a decision to lean towards shorter contracts but surely no board would implement something so limiting. Would be insane.

Vaughan was still awesome during 2016 when he was in ressies half the time. Don’t know if anyone would have been happy with re-signing him for the alleged $600K+ a season the Dragons offered him though.

That was a risk at the time though they were in a bit of a hole at the time with their pack, he's definitely worth it on current form

Oh, totally agree. The Dragons took a punt on the exact type of player they needed and it came off. But I'm sure a fair few Dragons supporters would have raised their eyebrows at paying that kind of coin for a guy in reserves when it happened. And even if he'd smashed it here, a whole heap of our supporters would never have been happy to throw huge dollars to keep him no matter what he produced.

[Supershamrock]

Surely the length of contract has to be a variable best considered for each individual scenario...

Exhibit A:
We definitely got burnt with Campo (I feel bad for the guy still) to have the entire deal cruelled by injury for both player and club.

However!

Exhibit B:
We won and continue to win with one Joseph Tarpine who has worked hard from day dot and continues to impress imo.

[LastRaider]

The only one I regret is Vaughan. I didn't like that at all from the start.

I dont regret Barnett in the context of how it shook out, it was essentially a swap for Tapine and i know which of those two is the better and more talented player.
It's just an example, along with Vaughan and TPJ of how the current team of Stuart-Mulholland-Furner have mismanaged some very good talent to the point where they've wanted out ASAP.

Maybe all three leave anyways, but id like to live in a world when our coaching and management structure know how to handle these sorts of talents so we are maximising, rather than minimising our chances of keeping these sorts of talents long term.
I mean Nic Cotric is going to get a lot of attention in the next 12 months and at this stage of proceedings, who, honestly, hand on heart would blame him for leaving? I wouldnt.

On current form there won't be too many clubs lining up for Cotric. He is struggling this season.

Ummmm....what? I would say every club in the competition that had the opportunity to sign Cotric would do all they could to nab him.

Cotric has been solid this year, he is one of only a few players who actually tries his heart out week in, week out which is what clubs look for at an early age. I would say Brisbane and Titans are probably already lining an offer up


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[Wiki Special]

Any reason that news on the Paulo to Eels signing has gone quiet? It seems certain he is going for that type of coin so surprised it hasn't been made official yet.

[Raider Azz]

Any reason that news on the Paulo to Eels signing has gone quiet? It seems certain he is going for that type of coin so surprised it hasn't been made official yet.

Because they can't make it official when he hasn't signed anything.

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[Wiki Special]

Any reason that news on the Paulo to Eels signing has gone quiet? It seems certain he is going for that type of coin so surprised it hasn't been made official yet.

Because they can't make it official when he hasn't signed anything.

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Yeah mate, that is what I am getting at. You'd imagine his manager would be strongly advising him to sign that deal. What is holding him back?

[Bennyinthewest]

Any reason that news on the Paulo to Eels signing has gone quiet? It seems certain he is going for that type of coin so surprised it hasn't been made official yet.

Because they can't make it official when he hasn't signed anything.

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Yeah mate, that is what I am getting at. You'd imagine his manager would be strongly advising him to sign that deal. What is holding him back?

The lure of a premiership with the Raiders


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[edwahu]

Usually a player will agree to terms and I believe sign letters of intent and then the managers and club spend ages working out TPAs and fine print, then that all gets reviewed with the NRL before a deal is official.

[dribble73]

Any reason that news on the Paulo to Eels signing has gone quiet? It seems certain he is going for that type of coin so surprised it hasn't been made official yet.

Made official or made public? Both clubs could have reasons to hold back a public announcement given it’s only Rd 8.


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[Hazza]

The only one I regret is Vaughan. I didn't like that at all from the start.

I dont regret Barnett in the context of how it shook out, it was essentially a swap for Tapine and i know which of those two is the better and more talented player.
It's just an example, along with Vaughan and TPJ of how the current team of Stuart-Mulholland-Furner have mismanaged some very good talent to the point where they've wanted out ASAP.

Maybe all three leave anyways, but id like to live in a world when our coaching and management structure know how to handle these sorts of talents so we are maximising, rather than minimising our chances of keeping these sorts of talents long term.
I mean Nic Cotric is going to get a lot of attention in the next 12 months and at this stage of proceedings, who, honestly, hand on heart would blame him for leaving? I wouldnt.

On current form there won't be too many clubs lining up for Cotric. He is struggling this season.

Ummmm....what? I would say every club in the competition that had the opportunity to sign Cotric would do all they could to nab him.

Like I said I'm sure they would on potential. You guys have your Raiders goggles on if you think he has been anything special this season - definite 2nd year syndrome so far.

You've got Cotric in your Supercoach team don't ya

[Travis]

Leaving all of the Stuart-judgement aside, managing a squad around the salary cap is incredibly difficult. Apart from assumptions, the majority of my understanding comes from my friendship with a colleague who is a former NRL head coach and friend of Stuart's.

As a few have already mentioned, you can't have a squad full of players on over $500 000 per season. Bateman, a low wage earner, is a vital part of cap management. With pretty much everyone else in the pack as borderline / starting international players, Bateman is necessary. The fact that he is only 23 is a plus; most middles don't begin to hit their peak until mid-to-late 20s. Letting one of Paulo, Boyd and Papalii go is also necessary; there is no way a successful club can have so much money tied up in middle players. My personal opinion is that a club also needs to be rotating players fairly regularly anyway; we've had too much of a static squad for the past couple of years. They say familiarity breeds contempt, and the lack of change is showing in performances.

A few references to 2016 in this thread, got me thinking about that year. It was our chance to win it, and we missed out by two two-point losses. After that year we let go all of our depth, and regressed, in terms of recruitment. Other clubs have developed while we have not. The same cap issues hit us then. Vaughan and Fensom were both let go because we could not afford them. Boyd and Paulo were seen as our two premier props (both were touted as potential 2017 State of Origin players, while Boyd represented Australia that year), while Vaughan was seen (perhaps his off-field attitude and the big St George offer played a part too) as the third choice. In that year he started in 12 games, played off the bench in 8 games and missed 7 (we won 6 of those) games. I think at least two or three of these he was genuinely injured for. He played in the 2nd and 3rd finals games too; I don't think his management cost us the premiership (poor decisions by spine players / Lee's hands did). At the end of the day, we had three big money props (Boyd, Paulo and Vaughan) and two low wage props (Bateman and Priest) who were doing a job.

Priest and Bateman were both minimum wage middles who did what the coach required. Of the six or seven middles preferred at the back of 2016, Vaughan and Fensom were the two to be released. The form they have been in since then (Vaughan in particular) is irrelevant as the club had to release two middles to be cap compliant and that was the decision they went with, with pretty good reasoning (they were expensive and offered contracts elsewhere, while we still had Boyd and Paulo signed for a further two years). It would be nice if we had a team of individuals who decided to sacrifice $200 000 to $300 000 per season, but that would be financially silly.