The 'R' word

[Raider47]

Time for a rebuild? One of many in recent years. It's a sad state of affairs, but most probably required.

If we were somehow at the luxury of chopping whoever we wanted, who would be those who go? I think clearly our problems lie in our spine and one or two lazy players who simply need to pull their finger out or the door is wide open for them. Part of rebuilding is shifting players, changing player responsibilities (Croker).

I'd look at moving on Leilua, Austin, Sezer, Bateman, Croker as captain, Wighton as a fullback, Stuart as coach, Don as CEO. As reasonable as Soliola has been this year, maybe it's time for him to move on at season's end too.

1.
2. Croker*
3. Cotric
4. Wighton*
5. Rapana
6.
7.
8. Paulo*
9. Hodgson (c)
10. Boyd*
11. Papalii*
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

*shape up or ship out

The remainder of the squad remains to be seen, but Williams, Havili, Abbey, Oldfield, Gubb, Lui, Knight, Murchie, Guler are all serviceable as depth.

Then the obvious problem becomes who would even be available and willing to come to the Raiders and fill the essential positions we need.

[Matt]

Harsh on Boyd. He has been our best player so far this yr.

Id also say Wighton has looked really good this yr. Looks dangerous with the ball, and i think he has 1 error in 3 games.

Id hold Bateman too, but he certainly needs to be in the depth department.

So,
1. Wighton (unless a stud becomes avaliable)
2.
3. Croker (c)
4. Cotric
5. Rapa
6.
7.
8. Sia (prop only - needs to play less mins)
9. Hodgo (c)
10. Boyd
11. Papa (can see the arguement to switch him with Whitehead though)
12. Tarpz
13. Whitehead

14. Garvey/ Havili
15. Paulo (prefer our 2 big boppas apart, thats working for us. Though depending on a 3rd big, I could be convinced to start him)
16. Lui - i think he has been good for us, both in performance and cap value.
17.

[Raider47]

I agree based on this year's form, Boyd is a must keep but if he slumps into previous 2017 ways, he'll need to sort it out.

[edwahu]

Why would you keep Croker as a winger? You could sign Mansour for less or use Oldfield and save 500k. You likely get a better winger either way. Croker probably needs the Fensom chat, unless his deal is in the lower range.

[Green eyed Mick]

Paulo, Austin, Sezer and Bateman can all leave and be replaced by two experienced and capable props and one quality half.

There is no need to replace anyone else at this point and more importantly no need to pay anyone to leave (Our back 5, Whitehead and Tapine all have contracts beyond this season)

We don't need dramatic changes IMO. We are one less try conceded per match away from top 4, as was the case last year. A bit more composure with the ball on the last and a stiffer middle 3rd defence should deliver.

[FuiFui BradBrad]

I think the evidence is clear when we strayed away from signing A Grade Clowns and targeted good wholesome family men, our performance has declined.

We’ve only made the final once with this approach. Back in the days of Carney, Dugan, Ferguson and Monaghan’s dog scandal, we were making the finals every 2nd year.

The plan is simple, we need some lowlife scum in this squad to get us back into the finals picture.

So with that said

1. Cotric
2. Tim Simona
3. Croker
4. Wighton
5. Rapana
6. Ben Barba
7. Ryan Stig
8. Paulo
9. Hodgson
10. Boyd
11. Papalii
12. Whitehead
13. Greg Bird (C)

14. Todd Carney
15. Tapine
16. Leilua
17. Chris Grevsmuhl

Paulo - Get Gungahlin Bulls to sign his brother and ask Jnr to help him out

Papa - Tell him before the game the opposition halfback hit his car on the way to the game. Give him a jar of moisturiser and tell him to go nuts

[nachopants]

Croker has to go.

A lovely guy, no doubt. But no longer a first grader, and definitely not a strong leader.

It starts there.

[Finchy]

Bit harsh on Ryan Stig. Wasn't his only "transgression" opposing same sex marriage for religious reasons? If that makes him "lowlife scum" in the ilk of Simona and Bird, then....

[nachopants]

How to fix the Raiders, by 2019

1. Cotric
2. Rapana
3. Wighton
4. Leilua
5. B Morris
6. Sezer
7. Williams
8. Boyd
9. Hodgson ©
10. Papalii
11. Tapine
12. Soliola
13. Whitehead

14. Peats
15. Gubb
16. Knight
17. Murchie

[afgtnk]

If we're doing a rebuilt:

The board needs fresh blood
The CEO needs to go
Executive management needs a clean out
Coach needs to go. Mick Crawley can stay. Brett White I have no idea, however his position reeks of jobs for the boy. **** it, he can go
Nigel Two Dads needs to go. Entire fitness and conditioning department needs a clean out
Sezer, and Austin need to go. Unless Wighton wants to be an outside back, he needs to go too.
Croker needs to be stripped of the captaincy - which hopefully also reduces his salary

That'll do nicely.

[CJ42]

1. Cotric
2. Wighton/someone
3. Croker
4. Leilua
5. Rapana
6. Sezer
7. Nathan Cleary
8. Boyd
9. Hodgson (C)
10. Paulo
11. Papalii
12. Tapine
13. Whitehead

14. Havili/Garvey
15. Lui
16. Soliola
Knight, murchi, Gubb, Hunt whoever.
Bateman (although was much better yesterday) can go.
Austin can go too if we aren’t offering him enough.


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[Green eyed Mick]

I like the look of the Warriors since Corvo took over their strength and conditioning.

I think McGuire, Walters and Bellamy would all do a great job. If you want someone with no affiliation you might have to look at the Leeds Rhinos coach who has a Bellamy like record in the super league.

[FuiFui BradBrad]

Bit harsh on Ryan Stig. Wasn't his only "transgression" opposing same sex marriage for religious reasons? If that makes him "lowlife scum" in the ilk of Simona and Bird, then....

It is harsh on Stig, I’ll take that one back. Couldn’t find a scandalous Halfback apart from Robert Lui, and even I had to say no to him for this squad

[T_R]

One rebuild per coach

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[The Nickman]

I would actually start with EDIT, tomorrow

Then bring in someone like McGuire or Toovey and tell them to figure out who they do and don’t want of the current roster by round fourteen

And go from there

[100%green]

If we're doing a rebuilt:

The board needs fresh blood
The CEO needs to go
Executive management needs a clean out
Coach needs to go. Mick Crawley can stay. Brett White I have no idea, however his position reeks of jobs for the boy. **** it, he can go
Nigel Two Dads needs to go. Entire fitness and conditioning department needs a clean out
Sezer, and Austin need to go. Unless Wighton wants to be an outside back, he needs to go too.
Croker needs to be stripped of the captaincy - which hopefully also reduces his salary

That'll do nicely.

Not really sure there is anything on that list I could argue with...

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[Kryptonite]

Time for a rebuild? One of many in recent years. It's a sad state of affairs, but most probably required.

If we were somehow at the luxury of chopping whoever we wanted, who would be those who go? I think clearly our problems lie in our spine and one or two lazy players who simply need to pull their finger out or the door is wide open for them. Part of rebuilding is shifting players, changing player responsibilities (Croker).

I'd look at moving on Leilua, Austin, Sezer, Bateman, Croker as captain, Wighton as a fullback, Stuart as coach, Don as CEO. As reasonable as Soliola has been this year, maybe it's time for him to move on at season's end too.

1.
2. Croker*
3. Cotric
4. Wighton*
5. Rapana
6.
7.
8. Paulo*
9. Hodgson (c)
10. Boyd*
11. Papalii*
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

*shape up or ship out

The remainder of the squad remains to be seen, but Williams, Havili, Abbey, Oldfield, Gubb, Lui, Knight, Murchie, Guler are all serviceable as depth.

Then the obvious problem becomes who would even be available and willing to come to the Raiders and fill the essential positions we need.

Just start with Don Furner and Ricky Stuart AND any board members / cronies who try to block this, procure Maguire as coach, the rest will fall into line and tge roster will look completely different in 12 months

[Ultima]

Some of you have short as **** memories on some of the players you suddenly want to scrap... Croker plays awesome when the team plays not ****... There is a reason he is the clubs second highest try scorer, leading points scorer, and captain... He is never injured, is our best kicker, and you could put the best centre in the game out there with this team around them and they would be crap, even more so if they are actually trying to organise this rabble into something that resembles a team which wants to play footy, not just collect their pay and go home. Maybe go back and watch some of his best highlights **** and stop over reacting like tools...

We are losing games in defence for giving up metres in all 13 positions and letting in tries through ineffective one on one tackles in the middle not the edges unless there is an overlap because.... the middle of the field has **** up counting to **** twelve! It's a COACHED weakness, watch our team EVERY SINGLE PLAY, they either stand their ground, or run backwards, our markers rarely move forward, almost always run back or just stand still, it's a **** show defensive wise for our entire structure!

He is also our closest to ten year vet so costing us dick all in the salary cap as of next year.

We have basically the same team that got us to **** second place less than two years ago and you want cut out the players and keep the coach?

[gangrenous]

I agree with Ultima, there you go...

[-PJ-]

I'm still a fan of Jarrod Croker and think he's a good fit for our side.

He needs to man up and start belting blokes..that's all.

Other than that I like the bloke and I'm glad he's our skip.

[dubby]

I don't think I've ever seen Croker in such poor form.
His confidence is shot, that's for sure. Not just in his game, but I seriously think he's questioning what he can do to help the team stop losing tight games. He's that sort ofguy who would question himself before anyone else.

He'll come good.

When Ricky can finally address the issues with the side at the moment, it will help Croker.

[The Nickman]

I agree with Ultima, there you go...

Yeah, I agree with Ultima too. This is so obviously a coaching problem, clearing out players is not going to fix that

[edwahu]

No way he cost us dick all on the cap. He would be amongst our highest paid players.

The "long serving allowance" is 200k for 8 years, or if you developed the player, or they have 10 years NRL experience across all clubd. So there are about 10 players we could be using it for. It is actually a "give the RLPA what they want but dont make it look like the NRL caved" allowance.

If you tell me he is on 300k I'd say we are getting good value, given he has had one year where he played above that level. If he is on more like 600 or 700k its an issue.

[scotchberry]

Some of you have short as **** memories on some of the players you suddenly want to scrap... Croker plays awesome when the team plays not ****... There is a reason he is the clubs second highest try scorer, leading points scorer, and captain... He is never injured, is our best kicker, and you could put the best centre in the game out there with this team around them and they would be crap, even more so if they are actually trying to organise this rabble into something that resembles a team which wants to play footy, not just collect their pay and go home. Maybe go back and watch some of his best highlights **** and stop over reacting like tools...

He is not our best kicker

[greeneyed]

Yes he is our best kicker and our top pointscorer of all time.

[scotchberry]

Yes he is our best kicker and our top pointscorer of all time.

Have a look at the facts.

Sezer kicks at a career average of 82.46% whilst Croker kicks at 81.43%.

For the 1st 4 years of Sezer's career (12-15) when he was 1st choice goal kicker at his club he kicked at 82.9%, but then if we look at Croker's 1st 4 seasons (10-13) he only kicked at 79%. Alternatively if we look at Croker's record from the same time period (12-15) he managed 81.56% - still below Sezer.

Croker has been over 84% on only 4 out of 9 seasons, whilst Sezer has been over this on 3 out of 4 seasons.
Croker has also had 5 seasons out of 9 when he has failed to reach Sezer's average.

For the purpose of my decision I have decided to exclude Sezers record from his time with the Raiders, as even though it still paints him in a higher light than Croker, I don't think it is fair due to the small sample size.

And yes you will argue that Croker has maintained it for more seasons however I seriously question weather it is just another by-product of the Stuart era. Was or has there ever been any goal kicking challenge etc or whatever they call it at the start of the season that other teams have when they are 2 equally matched kickers ? probably not - Ricky just has his favourites and is stubborn to explore anything better

I'm not saying that Croker isn't a great kicker and that there is so minimal between them, but I'm yet to hear anyone state how they could possibly come to the conclusion that he is better than Sezer.

And the arguement that he is our leading point scorer means nothing to me - Cameron Smith is the 2nd leading point scorer of all time but i guarantee there are at least 10 better kickers in the game this season alone.

[Northern Raider]

When Sezer was signed him and Croker were the top 2 kickers in the comp. when you have 2 guys of equal ability in goal kicking there is no reason to replace the incumbent. Same has happened at Penrith this year with Cleary retaining duties even though Maloney came to town.

It’s really not an issue worth concerning ourselves with. Capitulating in the last 10 mins every week is the major problem that needs rectifying.

[scotchberry]

When Sezer was signed him and Croker were the top 2 kickers in the comp. when you have 2 guys of equal ability in goal kicking there is no reason to replace the incumbent. Same has happened at Penrith this year with Cleary retaining duties even though Maloney came to town.

It’s really not an issue worth concerning ourselves with. Capitulating in the last 10 mins every week is the major problem that needs rectifying.

And that’s the truth.

I just get the **** whenever I hear people try to justify that he should keep his place because of his Goalkicking.

Not only is it irrelevant when you have the quality replacement, but goalkicking should only ever come into team selection when 2 players are neck and neck for that position. It’s pointless if you have to kick 3 goals each match in order to make up for the converted try 6pts you let in.

This isn’t the NFL with special teams

[greeneyed]

Yes he is our best kicker and our top pointscorer of all time.

Have a look at the facts.

Sezer kicks at a career average of 82.46% whilst Croker kicks at 81.43%.

For the 1st 4 years of Sezer's career (12-15) when he was 1st choice goal kicker at his club he kicked at 82.9%, but then if we look at Croker's 1st 4 seasons (10-13) he only kicked at 79%. Alternatively if we look at Croker's record from the same time period (12-15) he managed 81.56% - still below Sezer.

Croker has been over 84% on only 4 out of 9 seasons, whilst Sezer has been over this on 3 out of 4 seasons.
Croker has also had 5 seasons out of 9 when he has failed to reach Sezer's average.

For the purpose of my decision I have decided to exclude Sezers record from his time with the Raiders, as even though it still paints him in a higher light than Croker, I don't think it is fair due to the small sample size.

And yes you will argue that Croker has maintained it for more seasons however I seriously question weather it is just another by-product of the Stuart era. Was or has there ever been any goal kicking challenge etc or whatever they call it at the start of the season that other teams have when they are 2 equally matched kickers ? probably not - Ricky just has his favourites and is stubborn to explore anything better

I'm not saying that Croker isn't a great kicker and that there is so minimal between them, but I'm yet to hear anyone state how they could possibly come to the conclusion that he is better than Sezer.

And the arguement that he is our leading point scorer means nothing to me - Cameron Smith is the 2nd leading point scorer of all time but i guarantee there are at least 10 better kickers in the game this season alone.

Jarrod Croker 605 goals
Aidan Sezer 174 goals

I’m sorry but that’s the key record you’ve omitted.

Jarrod Croker is the best goal kicker in the competition. And it’s been proven over a long period of time.

I’m sorry, but you seriously expect the club to overthrow the best goal kicker in the history of the club? Based on a minor sample of percentages? It’s ridiculous!

[scotchberry]

Yes he is our best kicker and our top pointscorer of all time.

Have a look at the facts.

Sezer kicks at a career average of 82.46% whilst Croker kicks at 81.43%.

For the 1st 4 years of Sezer's career (12-15) when he was 1st choice goal kicker at his club he kicked at 82.9%, but then if we look at Croker's 1st 4 seasons (10-13) he only kicked at 79%. Alternatively if we look at Croker's record from the same time period (12-15) he managed 81.56% - still below Sezer.

Croker has been over 84% on only 4 out of 9 seasons, whilst Sezer has been over this on 3 out of 4 seasons.
Croker has also had 5 seasons out of 9 when he has failed to reach Sezer's average.

For the purpose of my decision I have decided to exclude Sezers record from his time with the Raiders, as even though it still paints him in a higher light than Croker, I don't think it is fair due to the small sample size.

And yes you will argue that Croker has maintained it for more seasons however I seriously question weather it is just another by-product of the Stuart era. Was or has there ever been any goal kicking challenge etc or whatever they call it at the start of the season that other teams have when they are 2 equally matched kickers ? probably not - Ricky just has his favourites and is stubborn to explore anything better

I'm not saying that Croker isn't a great kicker and that there is so minimal between them, but I'm yet to hear anyone state how they could possibly come to the conclusion that he is better than Sezer.

And the arguement that he is our leading point scorer means nothing to me - Cameron Smith is the 2nd leading point scorer of all time but i guarantee there are at least 10 better kickers in the game this season alone.

Jarrod Croker 605 goals
Aidan Sezer 174 goals

I’m sorry but that’s the key record you’ve omitted.

Jarrod Croker is the best goal kicker in the competition. And it’s been proven over a long period of time.

I’m sorry, but you seriously expect the club to overthrow the best goal kicker in the history of the club? Based on a minor sample of percentages? It’s ridiculous!

Like I said - Croker sample size is much bigger due to being primary kicker for 9 seasons compared to Sezer’s 4 so of course he has kicked more goals.

Kicking 174 goals at 82% is certainly a more than arequate sample size to come to more than a reasonable conclusion about his ability.

You could make an arguement in 2016 that Croker was the best kicker, but I’d quite happily state that Cleary, Maloney, Reynolds, Widdop and Gorden all easily out kick him today. He isn’t even top 5 anymore let alone the best.

If your basing your argument on number of goals kicked then how can you say that Cameron a smith is not the best kicker today followed by Thurston ?

People arguing he is better have absolutely no basis to argue it on, at least there is something to argue Sezers case regardless how little the difference.

Personally I don’t care who kicks, the people arguing that he maintains his place in the side because of it is a joke.

[gangrenous]

You realise that the difference between 82.5% and 81.5% on all of Sezers goal kicking history is like 2 goals rounded up right?!

Bloody bees in it. Not enough to argue Sezer is definitely better.

[scotchberry]

You realise that the difference between 82.5% and 81.5% on all of Sezers goal kicking history is like 2 goals rounded up right?!

Bloody bees in it. Not enough to argue Sezer is definitely better.

Yep but how can you argue the other way around that Croker is better ?

If someone says that he is better then make your point as to why ?

Look I don’t think we need to change kickers at all and it is an arguement that doesn’t need to be had.

But I’m raising the issue because it’s a flawed selection policy when people are arguing that Croker keeps his spot because he kicks goals ?

[Ultima]

Why are you even arguing this? You seriously think Sezer should be in the team over Croker? If we are going to cut some players he would be top of the **** list! We poached him from a club which wanted to keep him so he would be on good money and has NEVER consistently performed for us!

[The Nickman]

Yes he is our best kicker and our top pointscorer of all time.

Have a look at the facts.

Sezer kicks at a career average of 82.46% whilst Croker kicks at 81.43%.

For the 1st 4 years of Sezer's career (12-15) when he was 1st choice goal kicker at his club he kicked at 82.9%, but then if we look at Croker's 1st 4 seasons (10-13) he only kicked at 79%. Alternatively if we look at Croker's record from the same time period (12-15) he managed 81.56% - still below Sezer.

Croker has been over 84% on only 4 out of 9 seasons, whilst Sezer has been over this on 3 out of 4 seasons.
Croker has also had 5 seasons out of 9 when he has failed to reach Sezer's average.

For the purpose of my decision I have decided to exclude Sezers record from his time with the Raiders, as even though it still paints him in a higher light than Croker, I don't think it is fair due to the small sample size.

And yes you will argue that Croker has maintained it for more seasons however I seriously question weather it is just another by-product of the Stuart era. Was or has there ever been any goal kicking challenge etc or whatever they call it at the start of the season that other teams have when they are 2 equally matched kickers ? probably not - Ricky just has his favourites and is stubborn to explore anything better

I'm not saying that Croker isn't a great kicker and that there is so minimal between them, but I'm yet to hear anyone state how they could possibly come to the conclusion that he is better than Sezer.

And the arguement that he is our leading point scorer means nothing to me - Cameron Smith is the 2nd leading point scorer of all time but i guarantee there are at least 10 better kickers in the game this season alone.

Jarrod Croker 605 goals
Aidan Sezer 174 goals

I’m sorry but that’s the key record you’ve omitted.

Jarrod Croker is the best goal kicker in the competition. And it’s been proven over a long period of time.

I’m sorry, but you seriously expect the club to overthrow the best goal kicker in the history of the club? Based on a minor sample of percentages? It’s ridiculous!

Haha I’m not advocating Sezer is better than Croker at all, but that there is a ridiculous argument, GE

“Croker’s better because he’s kicked more goals!”

He’s kicked more goals because he got thrown the tee over Sezer! Not that I disagree with that choice, mind you, but that’s a really silly way to try and make your point

[edwahu]

If we replaced Croker with the NRL average goal kicker (79% YTD) and my maths is right, we would've kicked 2 goals less over the course of last season (77 vs 75). So Crokers goal kicking value is approximately 1 try a year.