Inability to build pressure

[Ultima]

I've said it a few times on here and it looks like this year we will continue to be the team which can't build pressure on the opposition to save our lives (we excel and building pressure on ourselves though).

Our lack of forcing repeat sets, our inability to make meters, our terrible long kicking game, the amount of meters we let them get back on us due to our pathetic line speed in defence. It just lets other teams off the hook so bloody often and I really believe a primary reason we keep losing games in the last twenty minutes... Most of our points are coming from individual brilliants, rarely a team effort, and almost never from sustained pressure or forcing the other team to make mistakes.

It's never been more apparent than in this lovely graphic from the NRL:


I guess the real question is, how can we fix it? Is it the players we have, so we are screwed, or is it the way they are being told to play?

The full article is here on the short kicking game and repeat set stats:
https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/03/01/sta ... t-kicking/

[edwahu]

What an ugly stat. The halves obviously have to kick better but its also clear our forwards arent getting them as many opportunities to do so as other clubs.

[Coastalraider]

I know our halves need to improve in this component of game management, but a lot of it comes down to the way they are coached. I would love to see the graphic that indicates how may times teams run the ball on the last - thats a trick that to the naked eye we use more than others. And with the individual brilliance some of our players have, it can work sometimes as well. Austin admitted it late last year that their first

Melbourne and the Cowboys force a lot of repeats because they take advantage of having the best 2 halves in the game. We dont, our strength lies elsewhere.

I dont necessarily like it, but its not as simple as saying our halves are crap.

[Green eyed Mick]

We have to be more disciplined and organised in the red zone. Being smarter about we we get tackled on the 4th tackle would make things a lot easier for our kickers. Having Paulo or Boyd take an age to get to their feet 1 metre from the line isn't doing our kickers any favours.

[gangrenous]

My gut feeling is Hodgson gets a decent piece of the blame too, not just the halves. Add up his kicks into legs, over dead ball, and passing to a prop on the last and he didn’t help that stat a lot.

[julian87]

The reason behind most of this lies in where we spend the cap. We’d undoubtedly have the most expensive 2-5 in the competition. Probably the cheapest middle third rotation too. We’d definitely be one of the cheapest 3 or 4 halves pairings too.

It doesn’t relinquish anyone’s accountability but it is why. It’ll be worse without Hodgson too. I reckon maybe only the Tigers and Titans don’t have a primary half paid more than ours.

[RTW]

The reason behind most of this lies in where we spend the cap. We’d undoubtedly have the most expensive 2-5 in the competition. Probably the cheapest middle third rotation too. We’d definitely be one of the cheapest 3 or 4 halves pairings too.

It doesn’t relinquish anyone’s accountability but it is why. It’ll be worse without Hodgson too. I reckon maybe only the Tigers and Titans don’t have a primary half paid more than ours.

It is a very good point, I would argue that we would have the lowest paid 6:7 combo in the comp. Taylor for Titans and Brooks for Tigers both got deals based on perceived potential that are well above what they should currently be on.

[-PJ-]

It was so so sad to watch the Raiders in the opposition "red zone" time after time after time knowing they weren't goingto score points..

And was it happening a lot. I pray they've worked on it..

[scotchberry]

This I can think of that would somewhat go towards improving these statistics

1) Be smarter with ball in hand and positioning ourselves accordingly for last tackle options with the whole side being of the understanding of what is happening (I still don't get how Stuart being a great halfback can't coach a team to do this)
( watched a game last year when Cronk got tackled on the 4th, Kenneth Bromwich sprinted 30 odd meters to get to dummy hlf, smith ran backwards to first receiver and the whole side moved in 1 - then very next match we played and Sezer got tackled on 4th - Austin stood dead still and took the 2nd pass of Junior and tackled straight away - its pathetic )

2) not only improve our line speed but we place absolutely zero pressure on the opposition kicker near the line (get up in his face)

3) Get other players back early for hitups to give us other options other that just Rapana and BJ - its so obvious for the defence to see what is happening (dummy half run)

[Neeeegz]

I'm a fan of Sam in the 7 for round one because he finds the grass with his long kicks and has a classy short kick also, our forced dropouts didn't happen last season. No pressure or repeat sets

[Neeeegz]

Face it, hodgson never gave our halves ball when they wanted it last season. We don't want a Robbie Farah here.... Hodgo was crap last season. Fact.

[Lui_Bon]

I thought a lot of the time last year the reason our last tackle options were rubbish was because many of our less bright players took really dumb options on 5th and even 4th tackle plays. Directing attack to the wing where a half had no room to go either side, or was obviously going to get a pass so the usual offside defence had no disincentive to simply rush them. Obviously part of that lies in the attack relying on individual brilliance down either wing, but it also lies in the halves not game managing and relying on the dummy half to distribute without overcalling him. This year will show whether Austin and Sezer are up to actually managing a game more than a single tackle ahead.

Because if they are, repeat sets will prove it.

[Seiffert82]

So we are the only team that conceded more 7 tackle sets than forced drop outs. Not to mention we had the lowest forced drop out number in the comp.

Doesn't surprise me at all, but that's bloody horrific reading.

[Bennyinthewest]

It’s hard to force drop outs when your forwards don’t hit the ball on the advantage line and get our halves a decent amount of attacking kicks, id say a few of our 7 tackle sets are kicked from further out


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[Ultima]

Another thing we continued to do in the trial so doesn't seem we have learnt is our team just sit still while in attack except for the few players hitting up the ball... Look at Melbourne, their ENTIRE team is moving so no one in the defensive line can slack off. We do that sometimes but it's **** rare and the amount of times we do a single pass out of dummy half to a prop for a hit up with zero support and the other 11 players standing still watching it is **** pathetic...

In 2016 Austin was following the ball constantly, it's why he got so much good second phase play from offloads, etc. 2017 he was banished to his side of the field for the first 20 rounds and we finally mixed it up a little but and gave them some freedom to roam in the last six rounds when it was already over. I really hope he is actually going to get back to a running 5/8 like he should be and we abandon the 1980's style one half per side of the field Bull...

Basically - Blind people with learning disabilities can see our attack coming and we need to start playing footy like everyone else...

[Woodgers]

Can you calm down? A ball hasn't even been kicked and you're hitting all kinds of anger already.

You've raised a few good points despite your ranting. I also have been banging on and on and on about the repeat sets and the field position. If you're going to carry a big side you absolutely want to ensure you're winning the territory battle more often than not and you want results with your kicks as much as possible. We need to improve. Sam Williams would improve both the short and long kicking game but then you have to compensate for the fact that he's one of the smallest halves in the comp and will be targeted in defence. It's a balancing act.

When we were red hot in 2010 the thing I noticed most was we were pushing up in attack together. Even a guy like Tilse was making big yards when he had others running alongside so the defenders couldn't isolate the one guy. It's absolutely another dimension to the attack. The thing is you have to be really fit to do it so we'll see if it happens. It'll be hard for us with a large side, it's not common for say a Boyd or Paulo to be feigning a hit up just to take heat off the ball carrier. However the way the body shapes are morphing into one, I agree with the point that we can get numerous bodies in there to ask questions of the defence and take heat off our big blokes trying to churn the yards. That's a fair request.

Relax. "Apparently" we're a lot fitter this year (i've heard it before too). Save the rants until you've actually seen some football this season.

[PhilY]

It’s hard to force drop outs when your forwards don’t hit the ball on the advantage line and get our halves a decent amount of attacking kicks, id say a few of our 7 tackle sets are kicked from further out


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A bit of chicken or the egg. A poor end of set kick puts immediate pressure on the defence so our attack re starts well back from where they should have. The forwards have to work extra hard to get back the advantage. It must gut them after putting in a huge effort to see yet another crap finishing kick.


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[afgtnk]

[EJ]

It's ok. Hingano forced like 5 line drop outs against us alone. So we bought him.

Now watch him lose that talent like Sezer did.

[afgtnk]

I can't see how Sezer was or will ever be good at forcing repeat sets.

a) He takes an age to steady himself and kick the damn thing (that goes for his long kicking and especially any field goal attempts). Good halves have the ability to catch and get the ball away very quickly when under pressure

b) He kicks the ball end over end and stabs it right into the **** ground every time he kicks. That slows the ball right down and allows it to sit up easily for the opposition to take. Good halves skim it more over the turf, which allows the ball to travel quicker and makes it harder to take for the opposition

[Dusty]

I can't see how Sezer was or will ever be good at forcing repeat sets.

a) He takes an age to steady himself and kick the damn thing (that goes for his long kicking and especially any field goal attempts). Good halves have the ability to catch and get the ball away very quickly when under pressure

b) He kicks the ball end over end and stabs it right into the **** ground every time he kicks. That slows the ball right down and allows it to sit up easily for the opposition to take. Good halves skim it more over the turf, which allows the ball to travel quicker and makes it harder to take for the opposition

Or it skins and goes dead



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[kiwi raider]

Sezer could be a very good kicker but he puts himself under all sorts of pressure
With where he kicks from , he’s always flat footed, the best kickers run at an angle off the dummy half And kick the ball whilst running forward

[dubby]

Maybe we just ran the ball a lot on the last tackle?

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[edwahu]

Maybe we just ran the ball a lot on the last tackle?

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Still a bad ratio though.

[Canberra Milk]

What a stupid rule, the seven tackle set. Absolutely can't stand it

[bonehead]

What a stupid rule, the seven tackle set. Absolutely can't stand it

so we go back to teams deliberately kicking dead?

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[bonehead]

we kick from 40m out far too often

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[dubby]

What a stupid rule, the seven tackle set. Absolutely can't stand it

so we go back to teams deliberately kicking dead?

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Yeah that was much worse.

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[edwahu]

Did it really happen a lot though? It was blown out of proportion because a couple of coaches whinged. Didnt happen much in the world cup either.

Anyway they could change the rule so that its only 7 tackle sets for kicks outside the 20 or 30 and avoid that problem.

[Green eyed Mick]

In order to stop negative, defensive football they have ended up creating a disincentive for positive, attacking football with the 7 tackle set.

Kick from inside the 20 it's 6 tackles, outside the 20 its 7. Both problems solved.

[gangrenous]

You can’t go and make complicated rules like that GEM. Its a slippery slope to a rule where if it was kicked from inside your 40, and went out in the opponents 20 you got an advantage. It’d be way too complicated and hated by all fans.

[Ruben Daley]

I can't see how Sezer was or will ever be good at forcing repeat sets.

a) He takes an age to steady himself and kick the damn thing (that goes for his long kicking and especially any field goal attempts). Good halves have the ability to catch and get the ball away very quickly when under pressure

b) He kicks the ball end over end and stabs it right into the **** ground every time he kicks. That slows the ball right down and allows it to sit up easily for the opposition to take. Good halves skim it more over the turf, which allows the ball to travel quicker and makes it harder to take for the opposition

Pretty sure Sezer led the whole comp in repeat sets one year.

[Ultima]

Only change needed to the 7 tackle set thing is have it for kicks going dead only. Knock-ons, etc shouldn't be punished if they want better attacking footy on display.

Anyway I guess it's all up to Williams in the kicking department, unless Sezer has a big turn around.

[julian87]

In order to stop negative, defensive football they have ended up creating a disincentive for positive, attacking football with the 7 tackle set.

Kick from inside the 20 it's 6 tackles, outside the 20 its 7. Both problems solved.

Disagree. Inside the 20 there’s no quick tap. Outside the 20 there is. That solves most problems IMO. The 7 tackle set doesn’t mean that much of it’s not coupled with no set line, so 40 meters from first 3 plays.

[papabear]

That is a damning statistic. No wonder we run it on the 5th when we are more then a 50% chance of giving a 7 tackle set.

To be fair to sezer and austin, if you receive the ball late / slow with the defence in your face it is a lot harder to put a good kick through the line. I deally you want to be running at the defence when putting the kick in so they dont know whether you are going to run / pass / kick, however, if hodgson or the forwards **** around and get it to sezer / austin slow then only the really good halves ala thurston are getting a repeat set.