Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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JezTez1984
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

Post by JezTez1984 »

greeneyed wrote: November 6, 2018, 4:42 pm
JezTez1984 wrote: November 6, 2018, 4:19 pm
greeneyed wrote: November 6, 2018, 11:17 am I do hate the Sharks... but you've got to give them credit for how they manage their salary cap... salary cap breach investigation aside, of course! But they never upgrade a player early. They wait until a new deal needs to be arranged. They are prepared to let players go who demand too much when the next contract comes. James Maloney won them a premiership, but they refused to upgrade his deal early and were prepared to let him walk. They were prepared to let Bird walk... even if they were upset about it. We seem to be constantly upgrading players, locking them in earlier than need be.

We changed emphasis from being a development club to a club that buys talent, but you need to be ruthless if you're doing the latter. If we genuinely have no money left in the cap... as we're constantly being told... we're clearly not being ruthless enough in our salary cap management. I do like the fact that the club refused to pay Paulo and Boyd any more than they were worth... and it signaled that they don't want to tie up too much money in forwards. But I still for the life of me, cannot understand how we have no money for a top line half (if one were indeed available) having lost Paulo, Boyd and Austin.
Like I said earlier, we obviously have money. It is not rocket science. Sorry but you have no clue if you think we have no money after letting Paulo, Boyd and Austin walk.

You are kidding yourself if you think we are just sitting on our hands watching the world go by and not making any attempts to sign good players.

Which (if any) of our previous signings have been widely reported in the press before they signed???? I think you will find "none" is the answer. They have all basically been announced out of the blue with very little/no press coverage.

Also, in terms of salary cap management... I would much rather we manage the cap as we are clearly currently doing, which is hooking underperforming, overpaid players such as those mentioned and using that money WISELY and waiting for the right target to become available and not wasting the money on a waste of talent like josh **** Dugan who mind you probably signed for close to a million.

Also waiting until players contracts are about to expire is full of flaws. Tell me, would you really want all of your top talent coming onto the open market, this also most likely increasing their asking price (which was the case with Paulo and Boyd).

As if you would want to risk losing players like Tapine, cotric and all of our other stars because you were too blind to re-sign them early.

That is certainly not the definition of good salary cap management, sorry....
You might not have read a lot of my posts... but I’m certainly not naive about how footy clubs are run. But tell me... would Aidan Sezer and Sam Williams be a first string halves combination at any other club? Now I keep hearing about the Raiders signing a big name half. But when they are linked to one... the club says... too expensive, can’t fit them in the cap. Despite Paulo, Boyd and Austin leaving. Is the club lying to it’s members? Given recent recruitment and the players shed to comply with the cap, I don’t think so. Remember when the Raiders had to release Fensom and Lee just before the season, just to comply with the cap?

Anyway, I do hope there is a little war chest there to sign Shaun Johnson... someone!

One extra point... the Raiders have more than once told us they’re upgrading players early, to reward them for performance. I seem to remember we did that for Blake Austin? How has that worked out?

And lastly, BTW, which team has a premiership in the last few years? And which team doesn’t?
Yes sezer and William's would be a halves pairing at another club. I can think of a number of clubs that have worse halves than we currently do. Williams/sezer is also a better combo than Austin/Sezer so we have already upgraded (although only slightly) and saved ourselves 700k in the process. Now that, is good salary cap management.

No the club Is not lying to its members, it is lying to the press for strategic reasons.
Do you seriously think we are going to come out and say we are extremely interested in signing this and that player???
When have we ever done that? In what reality is that a good idea??? It potentially sparks a bidding war with other clubs and also would lead player managers to believe we have a war chest and that we can afford to pay massive overs.

Recent recruitment? 2 of the best forwards in the super league? Remember when Lee actually got let go by the club because he was that **** terrible he lost us a semi final, a preliminary final and the chance at a premiership and finally, just before his eventual sacking by the club he allegedly got into a brawl at training with a fellow team mate.

Fensom was released because while he tried his heart out and bled green he was never going to make it to the next level and was consistently average. I have never seen someone have a run and get drilled back 10 meters so often, except for maybe Luke Bateman. Fensom was ineffective and would of been demanding somewhere between 400-500k which is way overs.

Your ideal of a well run club and salary cap seems to be quite disillusioned. Paulo, Boyd, Austin, Lee and fensom are 5 brilliant examples of good salary cap and squad management.

It has worked out brilliantly with blake austin, he provided us with a couple of years of great form and then he left and we saved ourselves 700k. I'd call that a win.

Btw we are talking about the salary cap not premierships.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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Yes I'm certainly disillusioned. But I also have a pretty good understanding of what's going on. And why the club may say things in public and what is actually happening. But I'm judging by results here. The results are unquestionably poor at the moment IMO. Both in terms of the salary cap, and in terms of premierships. I'm desperate to be proved wrong by actual results.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

Post by JezTez1984 »

greeneyed wrote: November 6, 2018, 5:32 pm Yes I'm certainly disillusioned. But I also have a pretty good understanding of what's going on. And why the club may say things in public and what is actually happening. But I'm judging by results here. The results are unquestionably poor at the moment IMO. Both in terms of the salary cap, and in terms of premierships. I'm desperate to be proved wrong by actual results.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

Post by edwahu »

Knights leak every player they are chasing, as do Brisbane and the Roosters. Knight basically go out and say exactly what they have to spend and who they want to spend it on. That's probably the 3 strongest teams in recruitment at the moment.

The way I see it, saying you don't have money and not stating you're interested in players only helps you in the market if everyone else did it and no one is going to pay the players what they want anyway. It definitely isn't helping us so far.
Last edited by edwahu on November 6, 2018, 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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zim wrote: November 6, 2018, 4:48 pm
greeneyed wrote: November 6, 2018, 2:30 pm Well I thought someone might like to speculate about whether the Raiders might like to sign Mr Hayne.
Depends how screwed we are.
If he'd come on a 1 year deal worth 400k I'd sign him. Otherwise, you don't want to get in the way of some front loading to pull a better half next year.

I can't see him signing for that price or that term.
I seriously would not even consider offering hayne a cent more than 250k, even that is a stretch. He is Utter garbage and would not improve any position in our squad besides depth.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

Post by greeneyed »

JezTez1984 wrote: November 6, 2018, 5:40 pm
greeneyed wrote: November 6, 2018, 5:32 pm Yes I'm certainly disillusioned. But I also have a pretty good understanding of what's going on. And why the club may say things in public and what is actually happening. But I'm judging by results here. The results are unquestionably poor at the moment IMO. Both in terms of the salary cap, and in terms of premierships. I'm desperate to be proved wrong by actual results.
The calm before the storm my friend, good things are on the way.
I certainly hope so.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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edwahu wrote: November 6, 2018, 5:44 pm Knights leak every player they are chasing, as do Brisbane and the Roosters. Knight basically go out and say exactly what they have to spend. That's probably the 3 strongest teams in recruitment at the moment.

The way I see it, saying you don't have money and not stating you're interested in players only helps you in the market if everyone else did it and no one is going to pay the players what they want anyway. It definitely isn't helping us so far.
You say that whilst we have potentially been behind the scenes negotiating contracts with players of such a caliber of shaun Johnson and tevita pangai junior..... :hmmm

It's also interesting that you mentioned the three clubs that appear to have no salary cap whatsoever.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

Post by FROG »

Fair discussion lads. Jez, I think we all want to believe that you are correct but we've got no basis to believe that the raiders have space under the cap. At best, I reckon we may have front loaded contracts (as has been suggested) and are looking to go large in 2020.

If the raiders released austo, boyd and Paulo to redirect cap space to other positions I'd agree that is good cap management.. the trouble is the raiders have said we've used those proceeds to resign players and again I have no basis to think otherwise. When SJ or another quality half or full back sign with us for next year, I'll be first to admit I was wrong. And by the way signing a Jacks or kurt mann type player is hardly a big name signing.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

Post by edwahu »

JezTez1984 wrote: November 6, 2018, 5:51 pm
edwahu wrote: November 6, 2018, 5:44 pm Knights leak every player they are chasing, as do Brisbane and the Roosters. Knight basically go out and say exactly what they have to spend. That's probably the 3 strongest teams in recruitment at the moment.

The way I see it, saying you don't have money and not stating you're interested in players only helps you in the market if everyone else did it and no one is going to pay the players what they want anyway. It definitely isn't helping us so far.
You say that whilst we have potentially been behind the scenes negotiating contracts with players of such a caliber of shaun Johnson and tevita pangai junior..... :hmmm

It's also interesting that you mentioned the three clubs that appear to have no salary cap whatsoever.
They operate in the same player market as us. No use complaining that they don't have a cap, it doesn't change the reality of who we compete with for players.

You could extend the list to about 14 clubs anyway, we are in the bottom two or three clubs for recruiting strength. We haven't signed a regular starting NRL player for almost 3 years.

As for TPJ and Johnson, when a player of that ilk actually signs and reverses a 30 year trend you will have a point.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

Post by greeneyed »

JezTez1984 wrote: November 6, 2018, 5:51 pm
edwahu wrote: November 6, 2018, 5:44 pm Knights leak every player they are chasing, as do Brisbane and the Roosters. Knight basically go out and say exactly what they have to spend. That's probably the 3 strongest teams in recruitment at the moment.

The way I see it, saying you don't have money and not stating you're interested in players only helps you in the market if everyone else did it and no one is going to pay the players what they want anyway. It definitely isn't helping us so far.
You say that whilst we have potentially been behind the scenes negotiating contracts with players of such a caliber of shaun Johnson and tevita pangai junior..... :hmmm
But we weren't able to sign TPJ, despite him coming to the club, wanting to come back... just show him the money. I'm was still holding out hope for 2020 for TPJ, but I'm not now that Bennett has gone to the Rabbitohs, Bennett will probably start there in 2019, and TPJ will sign with the Rabbits for 2019... releasing a Burgess or so to do it. I have no doubt they'll be able to do that deal, but the Raiders couldn't. That's why I said originally, we're not ruthless enough. If the Raiders were ruthless, they'd have shed a Luke Bateman to get that deal done, but instead re-sign a fringe first grader.

And on Johnson the club is back grounding the media saying... we don't have enough money in the cap, can't afford him in 2019, maybe 2020 we could afford him, but he probably won't come anyway. So if the club signs him... or TPJ... kudos! But I'm not confident about either ATM.

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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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I have not seen a single article, quote or otherwise claiming TPJ came to club asking to come back and we said "no that's not going to happen". It also does not even seem realistic that something like that happened.

Let's be honest with ourselves if that happened we would of moved heaven and earth to get it over the line. Unless of course we didnt because we identified the halves as a better place to splash our cash.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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Also has anyone seen the list of stars we have off contract at the end of 2020? That is the reason we are saying we will have some cash by then.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

Post by edwahu »

2019 off contract would decide who we have money for in 2020, which is basically Rapana and a few middle of the road players.

See here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5023
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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Jez can you please share the kool-aid around instead of keeping it all for yourself?

Offering Austin, Paulo and Boyd contracts and them leaving the club is not, by any stretch, good cap management. We paid Cowboys for Fensom to replace him with Bateman. Fensom was our best and most reliable forward during some dark times. Whenever he didn't play we got absolutely spanked because the rest of the forward pack refused to tackle. That is why he was on decent coin at the time.

We've been waiting a long time for these big name signings you are spruiking but all we have to go by is the recent history of this organisation and it ain't pretty. You must be a new fan but we'll (The Raiders) will crush that enthusiasm out of you in no time.

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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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JezTez1984 wrote: November 6, 2018, 6:14 pm I have not seen a single article, quote or otherwise claiming TPJ came to club asking to come back and we said "no that's not going to happen". It also does not even seem realistic that something like that happened.

Let's be honest with ourselves if that happened we would of moved heaven and earth to get it over the line. Unless of course we didnt because we identified the halves as a better place to splash our cash.
As I've heard it... the money he was wanting... for whatever reason, was not available for 2019. But 2020... more cap space available. If the Raiders identified the halves as the best place to spend the cash, I don't disagree. But the club is back grounding the media saying the only decent option for the halves, Shaun Johnson, can't be afforded in 2019, maybe 2020, but he probably won't want to come anyway. And it is in the media that Ryley Jacks was an option, club almost had him signed... but he preferred to go to the Titans. So I'm not sure where this big name half I keep hearing about is coming from.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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JezTez1984 wrote: November 6, 2018, 6:14 pm I have not seen a single article, quote or otherwise claiming TPJ came to club asking to come back and we said "no that's not going to happen". It also does not even seem realistic that something like that happened.

Let's be honest with ourselves if that happened we would of moved heaven and earth to get it over the line. Unless of course we didnt because we identified the halves as a better place to splash our cash.
Hang on. On the one hand you say you can't believe what you read in the media but then a comment is made and you're critical on the basis that it hasn't been stated in the media. You can't have it both ways my good man
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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FROG wrote: November 6, 2018, 6:30 pm
JezTez1984 wrote: November 6, 2018, 6:14 pm I have not seen a single article, quote or otherwise claiming TPJ came to club asking to come back and we said "no that's not going to happen". It also does not even seem realistic that something like that happened.

Let's be honest with ourselves if that happened we would of moved heaven and earth to get it over the line. Unless of course we didnt because we identified the halves as a better place to splash our cash.
Hang on. On the one hand you say you can't believe what you read in the media but then a comment is made and you're critical on the basis that it hasn't been stated in the media. You can't have it both ways my good man
Sorry what? I am actually just wondering where the rumour came from that TPJ approached the club And we rejected him. Seeing as there has been nothing in the media OR OTHERWISE. :P
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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I don't think anyone is saying the Raiders rejected TPJ. See above.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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greeneyed wrote: November 6, 2018, 6:38 pm I don't think anyone is saying the Raiders rejected TPJ. See above.
He approached the club and wanted to come home and we didnt buy him. One would often call that a rejection. If we didn't have enough money and he wanted to come that is still rejecting him..... :cmon
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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GE yourself in particular seem to think TPJ approached the club. Please elaborate. Where did you hear this?
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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gergreg wrote: November 6, 2018, 6:26 pm Jez can you please share the kool-aid around instead of keeping it all for yourself?

Offering Austin, Paulo and Boyd contracts and them leaving the club is not, by any stretch, good cap management. We paid Cowboys for Fensom to replace him with Bateman. Fensom was our best and most reliable forward during some dark times. Whenever he didn't play we got absolutely spanked because the rest of the forward pack refused to tackle. That is why he was on decent coin at the time.

We've been waiting a long time for these big name signings you are spruiking but all we have to go by is the recent history of this organisation and it ain't pretty. You must be a new fan but we'll (The Raiders) will crush that enthusiasm out of you in no time.

It is good cap management when they were liabilities for the price we offered let alone what they wanted, Amazing move by the club. The big bopper forwards are not what is needed in the league now and austin just couldn't tackle,

fensom was great in those dark days but again was a liability in the end and was on big coin, another good move by the club.

And if the signing of the super league champions player of the year and top 3 in line for the golden boot doesn't excite you then none ever will.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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I'll post things like that if I'm sufficiently certain that was the view of one party, at least. And that there were meetings between TPJ and club. But if the club would like to deny that... I'm happy to hear.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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JezTez1984 wrote:GE yourself in particular seem to think TPJ approached the club. Please elaborate. Where did you hear this?
Enough whispers on the wind from enough different sources saying the same thing Jeztez, someone I happen to know is close with the Pangai's and gave a bit of info which lined up with the same info from a few other known sources to others on this very forum.
Do you not think a person of GE's known standing among the Raiders supporters might not get a few genuine tipoffs?

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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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nemesis wrote:
gergreg wrote: November 6, 2018, 6:26 pm Jez can you please share the kool-aid around instead of keeping it all for yourself?

Offering Austin, Paulo and Boyd contracts and them leaving the club is not, by any stretch, good cap management. We paid Cowboys for Fensom to replace him with Bateman. Fensom was our best and most reliable forward during some dark times. Whenever he didn't play we got absolutely spanked because the rest of the forward pack refused to tackle. That is why he was on decent coin at the time.

We've been waiting a long time for these big name signings you are spruiking but all we have to go by is the recent history of this organisation and it ain't pretty. You must be a new fan but we'll (The Raiders) will crush that enthusiasm out of you in no time.

It is good cap management when they were liabilities for the price we offered let alone what they wanted, Amazing move by the club. The big bopper forwards are not what is needed in the league now and austin just couldn't tackle,

fensom was great in those dark days but again was a liability in the end and was on big coin, another good move by the club.

And if the signing of the super league champions player of the year and top 3 in line for the golden boot doesn't excite you then none ever will.
Good cap management is telling players you don't want to look elsewhere, not offering them a contract. Fensom wasn't a liability he just wasn't in the coaches plans. But the coach replaced him with a carbon copy.

Do you mean Bateman (Pommy)? Sure he is a great signing but we don't really need more back-rowers.

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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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JezTez1984 wrote: November 6, 2018, 5:47 pm
zim wrote: November 6, 2018, 4:48 pm
greeneyed wrote: November 6, 2018, 2:30 pm Well I thought someone might like to speculate about whether the Raiders might like to sign Mr Hayne.
Depends how screwed we are.
If he'd come on a 1 year deal worth 400k I'd sign him. Otherwise, you don't want to get in the way of some front loading to pull a better half next year.

I can't see him signing for that price or that term.
I seriously would not even consider offering hayne a cent more than 250k, even that is a stretch. He is Utter garbage and would not improve any position in our squad besides depth.
Well that would be a pointless offer.
He's a far better defender than someone like Williams and was in some good form at the end of the year. He's not a marquee signing but our squad would definitely be improved with him in it.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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zim wrote:
JezTez1984 wrote: November 6, 2018, 5:47 pm
zim wrote: November 6, 2018, 4:48 pm
greeneyed wrote: November 6, 2018, 2:30 pm Well I thought someone might like to speculate about whether the Raiders might like to sign Mr Hayne.
Depends how screwed we are.
If he'd come on a 1 year deal worth 400k I'd sign him. Otherwise, you don't want to get in the way of some front loading to pull a better half next year.

I can't see him signing for that price or that term.
I seriously would not even consider offering hayne a cent more than 250k, even that is a stretch. He is Utter garbage and would not improve any position in our squad besides depth.
Well that would be a pointless offer.
He's a far better defender than someone like Williams and was in some good form at the end of the year. He's not a marquee signing but our squad would definitely be improved with him in it.
He would be for the raiders

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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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LP Raider wrote:
greeneyed wrote: November 6, 2018, 2:30 pm Well I thought someone might like to speculate about whether the Raiders might like to sign Mr Hayne.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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zim wrote: November 6, 2018, 8:08 pm
JezTez1984 wrote: November 6, 2018, 5:47 pm
zim wrote: November 6, 2018, 4:48 pm
greeneyed wrote: November 6, 2018, 2:30 pm Well I thought someone might like to speculate about whether the Raiders might like to sign Mr Hayne.
Depends how screwed we are.
If he'd come on a 1 year deal worth 400k I'd sign him. Otherwise, you don't want to get in the way of some front loading to pull a better half next year.

I can't see him signing for that price or that term.
I seriously would not even consider offering hayne a cent more than 250k, even that is a stretch. He is Utter garbage and would not improve any position in our squad besides depth.
Well that would be a pointless offer.
He's a far better defender than someone like Williams and was in some good form at the end of the year. He's not a marquee signing but our squad would definitely be improved with him in it.
Completely disagree, he would not improve the squad at all, and after one year his ego and attitude would have destroyed the entire club and culture anyway. Much like he has done everywhere he goes.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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If you don't think he's a better player than anyone in our top 17 you need to pull your head out of meme land.
As you mention the added "circus" would definitely be an issue though.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

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zim wrote: November 7, 2018, 9:00 am If you don't think he's a better player than anyone in our top 17 you need to pull your head out of meme land.
As you mention the added "circus" would definitely be an issue though.
Have you even watched him play over the last 10 years? Dont you think it's strange that a club that has won about 5 wooden spoons in the last 6 years dont even want him and have released him TWICE???? Dont you think it's strange no other team is willing to go anywhere near him, hence why pre season has already started and he does not even have a contract or even a club to do preseason with??? Dont you think it's strange that no fan on here (or any other fan from any other club) barring yourself would make room to fit someone like Jarryd **** hayne, a proven veteran at failing, into our squad.

Says it all really. If you think hayne would fit into our squad it is in fact you, who needs to get out of meme land.

Now, tell me, where would you play him? Let's break it down.

Fullback? No. I would have wighton, Rapana and even cotric all ahead of him to be our fullback, making hayne our 4th choice fullback.

Wing? No. Rapana and cotric are 2 of the best wingers in the comp, nuff said.

Centre? No. Leilua reigning centre of the year and one of the best centers in the comp since joining the club. Croker, again, nuff said.

Halves? This is the only place he could possibly fit in, but again, it is highly unlikely he would improve the team.

Think about this, the wooden Spooners have Corey norman and mitchell moses in the halves who the eels are desperately trying to offload, and the great man jarryd hayne is not even considered a better option in the halves, at a club like parra...

Hayne has had multiple failed attempts in the halves, again, not even good enough to play in the halves for teams like parra and I honestly dont even think hayne/sezer would be any better than Williams/sezer. Hayne is all hype and the only reason he was ever classed a "superstar" was after one, yes one, outstanding year in 2009. That is all.

So kindly please tell me again how hayne would improve our team in any way, shape or form.

Now, has hayne improved the eels? No. Did hayne improve the titans? No. Both clubs went backwards at an alarming rate with hayne in the team and his toxic behaviour, effort and attitude was widely reported.

Like you even mentioned the circus alone is enough of a reason to not sign hayne, everywhere he goes turns to mud.
Last edited by JezTez1984 on November 7, 2018, 10:01 am, edited 4 times in total.
Kermit
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

Post by Kermit »

Sean Fensom.

Anyone heard what hes doing after being released from Cowboys?

Could think of a lot worse players to sign as depth for next year but given he's left once cant see him coming back.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

Post by JezTez1984 »

Kermit wrote: November 7, 2018, 9:58 am Sean Fensom.

Anyone heard what hes doing after being released from Cowboys?

Could think of a lot worse players to sign as depth for next year but given he's left once cant see him coming back.
Would sign him as depth, problem is if we signed him he wouldnt be playing for mounties he would basically be in the starting 17 for first grade every week which I dont really agree with.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

Post by edwahu »

Kermit wrote: November 7, 2018, 9:58 am Sean Fensom.

Anyone heard what hes doing after being released from Cowboys?

Could think of a lot worse players to sign as depth for next year but given he's left once cant see him coming back.
Heard he is going to Leeds.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

Post by dubby »

Never understood the Fensom fandom. Solid player. That's it.

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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2018

Post by nachopants »

Fensom's loss of leg speed a few years ago was the end of his NRL career for mine.
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