Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

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Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by greeneyed »

NRL: Don Furner says Canberra Raiders still have work to do to become cap compliant

Canberra Raiders chief executive Don Furner says the club still has work to do in order to become salary cap compliant but there is plenty of time to make it happen. Furner admits he remains unsure about what the future holds for Kurt Baptiste.

"We went from four hookers to two pretty quickly with one retiring and one homesick and going back home. That's the way it goes, you can come up and next thing you've got an injury and we need to fill that spot.

Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rugby-l ... zsrn8.html
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by Toviii »

Just hand us the spoon!


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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by edwahu »

Another hard hitting piece of journalism from the Canberra Times.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by starry91 »

I really wanna know how we are over.. we lose taylor turner and potentially baptiste. We sign gubb which wouldn't take up much. The cap goesup.. and were over can someone explain
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by -GD- »

Some real questions need to be asked of Don.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by dubby »

-GD- wrote:Some real questions need to be asked of Don.
He hasn't done a good job in this regard. His cap management has been poor for years now.

He's been good at corporate sponsorship, I'll admit.

Quite crap at player salaries and roster management.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by -PJ- »

My head hurts..
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by T_R »

Surely just one little question from the Canberra Times along the lines of "How is it possible that something this grossly incompetent has been allowed to occur?" would have been appropriate??
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by edwahu »

Bring back Tuxy!
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by scotchberry »

If we can't offload Baptiste then Soliola or Bateman should be the ones to get the tap on the shoulder. Not one of the best players in their position or game breakers in the game let alone responsible for so much of our success (BJ)

It's what the successful clubs would do - :hmmm
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by -GD- »

Need Chris Wilson to come back as well
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by Grün Maschine »

we are over the cap
Newcastle are so much under the cap they risk being fined for it
Yet we have struggled to beat them the last 2 years!
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Nepotism is destroying this club. For nearly 20 years we have been handing out key appointments to people because of who they are rather than what they have done and what they are capable of doing.

It needs to stop. We can't compete against other professional clubs if we continue to hire and retain amateurs.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by T_R »

Green eyed Mick wrote:Nepotism is destroying this club. For nearly 20 years we have been handing out key appointments to people because of who they are rather than what they have done and what they are capable of doing.

It needs to stop. We can't compete against other professional clubs if we continue to hire and retain amateurs.
It must change and it will never change.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by BJ »

Grün Maschine wrote:we are over the cap
Newcastle are so much under the cap they risk being fined for it
Yet we have struggled to beat them the last 2 years!
Mind you Broncos are so much ‘over the cap’ and we haven’t beaten them in the last two years.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by Azza »

What an embarrassment
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by RedRaider »

Time to start re-negotiating some of the existing contracts Don. Maybe look at some post footy career job for those nearing the end with the trade off being a lower contract amount.

Certainly in the case of future contracts put more into performance based payments. Start with the Austen negotiation. Zero increase is the base line and high performance needed to even reach the current figure.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by edwahu »

I know we bag his management but the question is what are the big mistakes? I think paying relatively big cash for Jnr and Tapine was a good move, as was most of the recruitment in 15 and 16 and we at least got a return in 16. It seems the Croker, Wighton and BJ extensions are most likely the biggest problems.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by RedRaider »

Ed, I think you answered your own question. The Raiders don't have a single member of the Australian squad. Yes we have a couple of Kiwi and England reps who deserve to be well paid and so does Papa imo and the Captain. But after that .... we don't seem to have performance based contracts. They seem to get paid the highest rate possible regardless of outcomes. The current Raiders squad should not put the club in cap strife.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by Green eyed Mick »

edwahu wrote:I know we bag his management but the question is what are the big mistakes? I think paying relatively big cash for Jnr and Tapine was a good move, as was most of the recruitment in 15 and 16 and we at least got a return in 16. It seems the Croker, Wighton and BJ extensions are most likely the biggest problems.
No. After nine years on the job the question is what are his achievements?
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by Beejay »

THE blame lies squarely with Don Jr. He has shown he is a poor negotiator consistently for the past decade.
The only key recruits have been Junior and Tapine, rest have been re-signs, and he's **** it up.
Farce that we are in this position.
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Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by Botman »

I love the idea that Ricky Stuart, a noted control freak, who has had control of his roster at every other club he’s been at, would come to Canberra and just wash his hands of recruitment and retention.

I’ve said it once, I’ve said it 1000 time
If Jack Wighton is on 2mil a year, it’s because Ricky Stuart gave his stamp of approval for Don to offer that to Jack.

By all means sack Don, but unless the new guy is taking that power from Stuart, you’re not going to solve the cap issue.
Last edited by Botman on November 26, 2017, 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by dubby »

Problem with Don is he includes too many clauses.

* rep games
* games played
* minutes played
* tries scored
There's more, and it's these clauses that come back to bite us.

Example: Rapana.

We got him cheap. Don thought it was wise to put in rep clauses and games played clauses ( In case raps didn't work out).

Did it with Baptiste, Priest and I think Bateman.

Baptiste plays rep games for PNG (Clever manager), and sits on the bench in case


Priest went beyond expectations.

Bateman is the new Fensom (a cheaper version as Fensom was to be our new co captain).

Don lures them in then it goes to pastry when they go better then expected
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by Botman »

My understanding is almost every contract these days has incentive based bonuses. Rep footy is basically a standard clause now for players. Even the guys who are slam dunks

Even LoLo’s 10 year, 10 million had escalators in it.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by Neeeegz »

That is exactly the reason the raiders are suddenly over the cap.world cup. Rep bonuses. And it sits squarely on Don, as he should expect x amount to make rep sides. Plus the motel at home games is in the cap too...
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by greeneyed »

In the football department cap, not the salary cap.


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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Neeeegz wrote:That is exactly the reason the raiders are suddenly over the cap.world cup. Rep bonuses. And it sits squarely on Don, as he should expect x amount to make rep sides. Plus the motel at home games is in the cap too...
Surely the motel isn't in the cap? If it is it seems like a pretty big waste of money.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by Neeeegz »

Flights for players mothers are in the cap, other clubs also, maybe that's why we are so far over ? I dont know
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by Botman »

Neeeegz wrote:Flights for players mothers are in the cap, other clubs also, maybe that's why we are so far over ? I dont know
Dont be so hard on yourself! Of course you know

Refer:
Neeeegz wrote:That is exactly the reason the raiders are suddenly over the cap.world cup. Rep bonuses. And it sits squarely on Don, as he should expect x amount to make rep sides. Plus the motel at home games is in the cap too...
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by lars »

Green eyed Mick wrote:
Neeeegz wrote:That is exactly the reason the raiders are suddenly over the cap.world cup. Rep bonuses. And it sits squarely on Don, as he should expect x amount to make rep sides. Plus the motel at home games is in the cap too...
Surely the motel isn't in the cap? If it is it seems like a pretty big waste of money.
I thought this was a new condition of the cap that came in for 2018. Regardless, we haven’t had any for the 2018 season yet so can’t blame that for our current predicament.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by greeneyed »

lars wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
Neeeegz wrote:That is exactly the reason the raiders are suddenly over the cap.world cup. Rep bonuses. And it sits squarely on Don, as he should expect x amount to make rep sides. Plus the motel at home games is in the cap too...
Surely the motel isn't in the cap? If it is it seems like a pretty big waste of money.
I thought this was a new condition of the cap that came in for 2018. Regardless, we haven’t had any for the 2018 season yet so can’t blame that for our current predicament.
As mentioned above, it’s in the football department cap, not the salary cap.


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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by T_R »

Pigman wrote:I love the idea that Ricky Stuart, a noted control freak, who has had control of his roster at every other club he’s been at, would come to Canberra and just wash his hands of recruitment and retention.

I’ve said it once, I’ve said it 1000 time
If Jack Wighton is on 2mil a year, it’s because Ricky Stuart gave his stamp of approval for Don to offer that to Jack.

By all means sack Don, but unless the new guy is taking that power from Stuart, you’re not going to solve the cap issue.
The problem far pre-dated Stuart.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by Botman »

T_R wrote:
Pigman wrote:I love the idea that Ricky Stuart, a noted control freak, who has had control of his roster at every other club he’s been at, would come to Canberra and just wash his hands of recruitment and retention.

I’ve said it once, I’ve said it 1000 time
If Jack Wighton is on 2mil a year, it’s because Ricky Stuart gave his stamp of approval for Don to offer that to Jack.

By all means sack Don, but unless the new guy is taking that power from Stuart, you’re not going to solve the cap issue.
The problem far pre-dated Stuart.
To the tune of 500k? Not even close
Before Stuart arrived we had a number of breaches according to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ ... p#Breaches

Save for 2006, in which we got a huge fine and were frankly lucky to avoid points deductions, our salary fines are all minor breaches, where for the most part we are being fined Less than 7k (can you imagine the level of breach you have to have to attract only 7k?)

We got hit with our biggest breach in a decade last year and are now reportedly needing to shed 500k of cap room to be cap compliant. Seems our stunning recruitment under Stuart has some answers. And it wasnt the **** bike track as it turns out ;)

Again, im not saying we shouldnt sack DFJ. I think my feelings on anyone who has stepped foot in QBN are well documented. But there is a simple fact about this current situation right now. If reports are indeed true and this needing to shed players to be cap compliant, and it isn't a story leaked by the club to try and offload players they dont actually want, then our coach has his prints on that as much as anyone.

Sack Don, and make sure his replacement has full autonomy to do as he pleases. Be that take complete control of the roster/cap and/or replace the coaching staff if he so desires. But sacking DFJ and maintaining the current power structure will elevate absolutely nothing in terms of our cap management.
Last edited by Botman on November 26, 2017, 8:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by Neeeegz »

I didn't say I know exactly pig/nick man/woman lgbti person. Just live in the now with constructive criticism, instead of trolling internet forums for your daily kicks of trolling... Rarely do I see anything of substance from you. And if I want a few beers before I post on here. I'm going to damn well have them.
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Re: Raiders still have work to do be cap compliant

Post by Botman »

Neeeegz wrote:I didn't say I know exactly pig/nick man/woman lgbti person. Just live in the now with constructive criticism, instead of trolling internet forums for your daily kicks of trolling... Rarely do I see anything of substance from you. And if I want a few beers before I post on here. I'm going to damn well have them.
i... ummm... i wasnt trolling m8 :lol:
But none the less, i applaud you for sinking a few before posting, i find the GH is a far more palatable place after a few bevvy's.

And if i ever gave you the impression i have any interest in providing substance, i unreservedly apologise for that misconception.
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