legend wrote:Why is it we are competitive one year in four yet other teams like the Storm, Broncos, Roosters, Cowboys and Sharks are in there swinging for the fences every year? We've had the juniors and development systems in place but our success has been bi-polar.
I'm not at all comfortable being lumped with the Knights, Tigers, Warriors and Titans as perpetual also rans.
Broncos and Roosters are not a valid comparison as they have the luxury of the salary sombrero that the Raiders will never have. Storm have one of the greatest spines of all time so no again can't compare. Cowboys were perennial losers until Thurston came along. Without him they struggle as much as any club despite a roster full of Origin players. Unfortunately you simply can't go out and buy a future immortal halfback to turn your clubs fortunes around.
Sharks are the team that has over achieved. I think a lot of this comes from their win at any cost attitude. They are never out to impress or make highlight reels. They don't care if they win ugly as long as they win.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
legend wrote:Why is it we are competitive one year in four yet other teams like the Storm, Broncos, Roosters, Cowboys and Sharks are in there swinging for the fences every year? We've had the juniors and development systems in place but our success has been bi-polar.
I'm not at all comfortable being lumped with the Knights, Tigers, Warriors and Titans as perpetual also rans.
There is probably about 5 to 10 million difference in what players earn at the first 5 clubs vs the last.
Why do we have a squad with 1 origin player which is maxxing the cap vs some of those clubs which have half a dozen? Is it all bad management or is there something inherently unbalanced with the comp?
Broncos and Roosters, sure but the other 3 I wouldn't be so sure. RL in Melbourne is dead, the only ones that would attract TPAs are the Big 3, who'd get the same TPAs wherever they played. NQL is too spread out instead of having one really big population centre and so I'd assume at least that TPAs are difficult. And Cronulla are just about the least marketable team in the NRL.
legend wrote:Why is it we are competitive one year in four yet other teams like the Storm, Broncos, Roosters, Cowboys and Sharks are in there swinging for the fences every year? We've had the juniors and development systems in place but our success has been bi-polar.
I'm not at all comfortable being lumped with the Knights, Tigers, Warriors and Titans as perpetual also rans.
Legend I think we were competitive this season .. hardly a game we were not there up till the final siren. Unfortunately far too many times (for whatever reason) we couldn't get the points. If we were in a 100m sprint we were 2nd place by a shoe length not 10m behind. Yea I agree this should have been sorted out during the season, some on-going issues annoyed me as much as anyone. Hopefully an off season will result in a successful 2018.
legend wrote:Why is it we are competitive one year in four yet other teams like the Storm, Broncos, Roosters, Cowboys and Sharks are in there swinging for the fences every year? We've had the juniors and development systems in place but our success has been bi-polar.
I'm not at all comfortable being lumped with the Knights, Tigers, Warriors and Titans as perpetual also rans.
There is probably about 5 to 10 million difference in what players earn at the first 5 clubs vs the last.
Why do we have a squad with 1 origin player which is maxxing the cap vs some of those clubs which have half a dozen? Is it all bad management or is there something inherently unbalanced with the comp?
Broncos and Roosters, sure but the other 3 I wouldn't be so sure. RL in Melbourne is dead, the only ones that would attract TPAs are the Big 3, who'd get the same TPAs wherever they played. NQL is too spread out instead of having one really big population centre and so I'd assume at least that TPAs are difficult. And Cronulla are just about the least marketable team in the NRL.
Cowboys biggest supporter is a developer worth hundreds of millions. Plus they have Thurston who has basically been like Andrew Johns and adds 10 wins a year to the club. We lost our Thurston to the Broncos due to TPAs and I don't see us finding and keeping a player at that level under the current system. It's just going to be impossible.
Anyway, that's no excuse for dropping the ball so badly this year. No doubt we had the squad to do far better. It would just be nice to know how level the playing field really is.
Clearly, one finals campaign in four years isn't an acceptable record. Missing the finals this year is a very significant failure.
I do, however, think the coach deserves an opportunity to turn it around in 2018. And I believe he can.
We know he's in place for 2018 at least, as well. No point demanding his head or shopping half the team as I've seen in some posts. No point, and simply damaging. There is the basis for moving forward. We certainly don't need to be throwing the baby out with the bath water.
legend wrote:Why is it we are competitive one year in four yet other teams like the Storm, Broncos, Roosters, Cowboys and Sharks are in there swinging for the fences every year? We've had the juniors and development systems in place but our success has been bi-polar.
I'm not at all comfortable being lumped with the Knights, Tigers, Warriors and Titans as perpetual also rans.
There is probably about 5 to 10 million difference in what players earn at the first 5 clubs vs the last.
Why do we have a squad with 1 origin player which is maxxing the cap vs some of those clubs which have half a dozen? Is it all bad management or is there something inherently unbalanced with the comp?
Broncos and Roosters, sure but the other 3 I wouldn't be so sure. RL in Melbourne is dead, the only ones that would attract TPAs are the Big 3, who'd get the same TPAs wherever they played. NQL is too spread out instead of having one really big population centre and so I'd assume at least that TPAs are difficult. And Cronulla are just about the least marketable team in the NRL.
Melbourne had the second highest home crowd average behind the Broncos. That's an impressive achievement given the hostile climate in which they operate. They are obviously doing something right and they are grooming some quality players to replace the big three to ensure long term success. What are we doing? We shipped a local junior with origin potential off to the Dragons.
See the difference?
Why did we have four rep level players renege on contracts? What did they know or what were they told about the culture of the Raiders that made them backflip? Sure money was part of it, but Ennis went on to win a premiership with the Sharks, Proctor ultimately ditched Melbourne for a club with a culture more toxic than ours, Tedesco flipped on the Tigers and only Mansour remains with his original club.
As for Cronulla, the least marketable team in the NRL according to you, they are the current premiers and we could learn a thing or two from them when it comes to mental toughness. They leave us for dead and it has nothing to do with Stuart's influence when he was there.
greeneyed wrote:Clearly, one finals campaign in four years isn't an acceptable record. Missing the finals this year is a very significant failure.
I do, however, think the coach deserves an opportunity to turn it around in 2018. And I believe he can.
We know he's in place for 2018 at least, as well. No point demanding his head or shopping half the team as I've seen in some posts. No point, and simply damaging. There is the basis for moving forward. We certainly don't need to be throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Pretty much where I'm at with it too. Look at the choices we need to make rather than those that have already been made.
If we're still sitting here in round 8 next year, scratching our heads over what is going on, after a season like this and a touted "brutal review" then it's time to jump on the sack Sticky band wagon for me. I see 2018 being either the year we're back in the 8, or the year he loses the dressing room trying to turn it around and we have a new coach in 2019.
legend wrote:When you consider we have the second highest point scorer and two players in the top ten for tries scored, for me it has to be an attitude problem and for that the blame rests equally with the coach, board, management and players.
On the surface it looked like the Raiders expected to just roll on like they did in the latter parts of 2016 without realising the opposition now had enough on tape to find ways to beat us, let alone us beating ourselves.
If I was to give a fair assessment of our spine as a unit, it would be a 2/10. The lack of urgency, leadership and execution was a disgrace when you look at the season as a whole. It's hard to say who is the most culpable of the four. I believe Wighton put in the most effort but was the worst performing player of our spine, possibly the entire team. Hodgson was rubbish bar a few games and regressed horribly. Most people wanted Sezer released and I believe the nonchalant attitude of Austin is cause for concern.
I think mad Monday should be cancelled and the team should be flogged until the grand final. Pretty sure Stuart did that with Parramatta.
As for Stuart, one season in four making the finals is a woeful record but we chose to extend his contract. Where was the due diligence and what KPI's were put in place for Stuart to deserve an extension?
Our retention and recruitment has been disgraceful. This rests with Stuart, Furner and Mulholland. Our juniors, traditionally a strength of the club are below mediocre and we have managed the cap poorly.
So many questions, so many apologists and so few willing to be accountable for their actions. Oh and so many fans accepting of the status quo.
legend wrote:Why is it we are competitive one year in four yet other teams like the Storm, Broncos, Roosters, Cowboys and Sharks are in there swinging for the fences every year? We've had the juniors and development systems in place but our success has been bi-polar.
I'm not at all comfortable being lumped with the Knights, Tigers, Warriors and Titans as perpetual also rans.
There is probably about 5 to 10 million difference in what players earn at the first 5 clubs vs the last.
Why do we have a squad with 1 origin player which is maxxing the cap vs some of those clubs which have half a dozen? Is it all bad management or is there something inherently unbalanced with the comp?
Broncos and Roosters, sure but the other 3 I wouldn't be so sure. RL in Melbourne is dead, the only ones that would attract TPAs are the Big 3, who'd get the same TPAs wherever they played. NQL is too spread out instead of having one really big population centre and so I'd assume at least that TPAs are difficult. And Cronulla are just about the least marketable team in the NRL.
Cowboys biggest supporter is a developer worth hundreds of millions. Plus they have Thurston who has basically been like Andrew Johns and adds 10 wins a year to the club. We lost our Thurston to the Broncos due to TPAs and I don't see us finding and keeping a player at that level under the current system. It's just going to be impossible.
Anyway, that's no excuse for dropping the ball so badly this year. No doubt we had the squad to do far better. It would just be nice to know how level the playing field really is.
legend wrote:Why is it we are competitive one year in four yet other teams like the Storm, Broncos, Roosters, Cowboys and Sharks are in there swinging for the fences every year? We've had the juniors and development systems in place but our success has been bi-polar.
I'm not at all comfortable being lumped with the Knights, Tigers, Warriors and Titans as perpetual also rans.
There is probably about 5 to 10 million difference in what players earn at the first 5 clubs vs the last.
Why do we have a squad with 1 origin player which is maxxing the cap vs some of those clubs which have half a dozen? Is it all bad management or is there something inherently unbalanced with the comp?
Broncos and Roosters, sure but the other 3 I wouldn't be so sure. RL in Melbourne is dead, the only ones that would attract TPAs are the Big 3, who'd get the same TPAs wherever they played. NQL is too spread out instead of having one really big population centre and so I'd assume at least that TPAs are difficult. And Cronulla are just about the least marketable team in the NRL.
Cowboys biggest supporter is a developer worth hundreds of millions. Plus they have Thurston who has basically been like Andrew Johns and adds 10 wins a year to the club. We lost our Thurston to the Broncos due to TPAs and I don't see us finding and keeping a player at that level under the current system. It's just going to be impossible.
Anyway, that's no excuse for dropping the ball so badly this year. No doubt we had the squad to do far better. It would just be nice to know how level the playing field really is.
Sorry but MILF is no Thurston!
Time will tell, but talent wise he is the closest we have had since the NRL started. We'd be in a ridiculously better position if we had of been able to keep him for the sort of money the Broncos paid for him under the cap.
greeneyed wrote:Clearly, one finals campaign in four years isn't an acceptable record. Missing the finals this year is a very significant failure.
I do, however, think the coach deserves an opportunity to turn it around in 2018. And I believe he can.
We know he's in place for 2018 at least, as well. No point demanding his head or shopping half the team as I've seen in some posts. No point, and simply damaging. There is the basis for moving forward. We certainly don't need to be throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Not sure that anyone has suggested that we shop around half the team. Only that it is unfathomable that we could be over the cap and if we indeed are, then there are a few players being paid massive overs and it may well be in our interest to move them on if better value for money could be obtained elsewhere. Judging by what is rumoured to become available I'd argue that there will be many opportunities to do exactly that
greeneyed wrote:Clearly, one finals campaign in four years isn't an acceptable record. Missing the finals this year is a very significant failure.
I do, however, think the coach deserves an opportunity to turn it around in 2018. And I believe he can.
We know he's in place for 2018 at least, as well. No point demanding his head or shopping half the team as I've seen in some posts. No point, and simply damaging. There is the basis for moving forward. We certainly don't need to be throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Pretty much where I'm at with it too. Look at the choices we need to make rather than those that have already been made.
If we're still sitting here in round 8 next year, scratching our heads over what is going on, after a season like this and a touted "brutal review" then it's time to jump on the sack Sticky band wagon for me. I see 2018 being either the year we're back in the 8, or the year he loses the dressing room trying to turn it around and we have a new coach in 2019.
Totally agree. He's got 2018 to right the ship.
If our season ends without at least getting to week 2 of the finals, he should be sent packing. Simply limping into the 8 and being dispatched in Week 1 of the finals isn't going to cut it.
We should be competing to be one of the last 4 teams standing, which is basically competing for a premiership
greeneyed wrote:Clearly, one finals campaign in four years isn't an acceptable record. Missing the finals this year is a very significant failure.
I do, however, think the coach deserves an opportunity to turn it around in 2018. And I believe he can.
We know he's in place for 2018 at least, as well. No point demanding his head or shopping half the team as I've seen in some posts. No point, and simply damaging. There is the basis for moving forward. We certainly don't need to be throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Pretty much where I'm at with it too. Look at the choices we need to make rather than those that have already been made.
If we're still sitting here in round 8 next year, scratching our heads over what is going on, after a season like this and a touted "brutal review" then it's time to jump on the sack Sticky band wagon for me. I see 2018 being either the year we're back in the 8, or the year he loses the dressing room trying to turn it around and we have a new coach in 2019.
Totally agree. He's got 2018 to right the ship.
If our season ends without at least getting to week 2 of the finals, he should be sent packing. Simply limping into the 8 and being dispatched in Week 1 of the finals isn't going to cut it.
We should be competing to be one of the last 4 teams standing, which is basically competing for a premiership
IMO this is where we should be looking at next year.
I think the squad is good enough, and the utter disaster of this year should ensure there is no risk of complacency going into 2018
It's got all the makings of a big year. No excuses, right?
I think the squad is good enough, and the utter disaster of this year should ensure there is no risk of complacency going into 2018
It's got all the makings of a big year. No excuses, right?
Agree.
As much as my expectations have not been met this season I can still say I enjoyed it for reasons other than that which would concern the demographic of most on this forum.
I'm also confident that the club, including coach and players, have taken responsibility for a poor season and will take all necessary steps to rectify the situation.
Changes will be required if 2018 is a copy of 2017.
I think the squad is good enough, and the utter disaster of this year should ensure there is no risk of complacency going into 2018
It's got all the makings of a big year. No excuses, right?
I think the squad is good enough, and the utter disaster of this year should ensure there is no risk of complacency going into 2018
It's got all the makings of a big year. No excuses, right?
I think the squad is good enough, and the utter disaster of this year should ensure there is no risk of complacency going into 2018
It's got all the makings of a big year. No excuses, right?
At these difficult times, I sometimes like to go back and read the wisdom of previous posters, alas long now departed.
March 18, 2011
" If you want to be taken seriously as a contender you dont make excuses about performances ... coach, players nor supporters ... you expect and demand better. We've got a very good playing list ... no excuses "
Wise words, I think we'd all agree.
Who was this 'Bay56' fellow?
Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
T_R wrote:At these difficult times, I sometimes like to go back and read the wisdom of previous posters, alas long now departed.
March 18, 2011
" If you want to be taken seriously as a contender you dont make excuses about performances ... coach, players nor supporters ... you expect and demand better. We've got a very good playing list ... no excuses "
T_R wrote:At these difficult times, I sometimes like to go back and read the wisdom of previous posters, alas long now departed.
March 18, 2011
" If you want to be taken seriously as a contender you dont make excuses about performances ... coach, players nor supporters ... you expect and demand better. We've got a very good playing list ... no excuses "
T_R wrote:At these difficult times, I sometimes like to go back and read the wisdom of previous posters, alas long now departed.
March 18, 2011
" If you want to be taken seriously as a contender you dont make excuses about performances ... coach, players nor supporters ... you expect and demand better. We've got a very good playing list ... no excuses "
Wise words, I think we'd all agree.
Who was this 'Bay56' fellow?
gergreg wrote:thanks GE.
Found this on the fourth link down, not bothering to read any further. - I supported Stuart in the first two tough years and certainly in 2016. He also has received my support this season, although imo some criticism due to our position on the ladder is justifiably warranted. My support in 2018 will be stretched to the limit if the woes of 2017 are not rectified.
Raidersfan wrote:
Pigman wrote:I'm hopeful
I really am
I think the squad is good enough, and the utter disaster of this year should ensure there is no risk of complacency going into 2018
It's got all the makings of a big year. No excuses, right?
Agree.
As much as my expectations have not been met this season I can still say I enjoyed it for reasons other than that which would concern the demographic of most on this forum.
I'm also confident that the club, including coach and players, have taken responsibility for a poor season and will take all necessary steps to rectify the situation.
Changes will be required if 2018 is a copy of 2017.
Raidersfan wrote:^^^^ Legend
We all have our own opinions on 2017 going into 2018 and they are just that, opinions,
I 100% agree that 2017 was a disappointment due to the bar being raised after 2017. And I agree that admin, management, coach and players need to be made accountable if they want to continue the support from those in the stands.
However I have a more positive outlook for the future. A successful 2018 (which doesn't necessarily mean a premiership) and all the current talk and negative vibe will be forgotten .. and that is where I'm placing my bets. If 2018 is a copy of 2017 changes need to be made.
T_R wrote:At these difficult times, I sometimes like to go back and read the wisdom of previous posters, alas long now departed.
March 18, 2011
" If you want to be taken seriously as a contender you dont make excuses about performances ... coach, players nor supporters ... you expect and demand better. We've got a very good playing list ... no excuses "
^^^^
btw thanks guys for looking up some of those old posts .. saved me a bit of time
Of course we all change our opinions over time .. I remember my old mate Raider69 used to want Furner's head but then was quite chummy with the guy that had his nappy changed by the Chairman's wife.
Heck most of the group loved Elliot than offered to drive the removalist truck up the Hume .. heck Soulsy and LP wrote a song about it.
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