Page 1 of 2
Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 8:07 pm
by Beejay
We are the worst in the comp.
To be giving up 70+ metres against marsh mellow packs is ridiculous. Manly put in a grubber, which trapped us in the ingoal, off a kickoff set!
What is the point of having a massive front row pair, if we allow Lewis brown and co to make 11mtrs a run?
Something needs to change.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 8:08 pm
by green_queenslander
Jesus!... time for bed!
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 8:10 pm
by edwahu
Line speed is overrated.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 8:30 pm
by Beejay
Nate Myles. 10 runs. 138 metres
TAKE ME NOW I HAVE SEEN IT AAAAAAALLLL
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 8:33 pm
by CJ42
Beejay wrote:Nate Myles. 10 runs. 138 metres
TAKE ME NOW I HAVE SEEN IT AAAAAAALLLL
He was on the field against lui and Bateman... HAHAHAHAHAHA
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 8:35 pm
by yeh raiders
Mate Myles... that's embarrassing. Lui needs a spell.. permanently.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 8:37 pm
by -GD-
Beejay wrote:Nate Myles. 10 runs. 138 metres
TAKE ME NOW I HAVE SEEN IT AAAAAAALLLL
Ho-lee crap thats winding the clock back ten years
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 8:44 pm
by Beejay
Shannon Boyd 10 runs, 87 metres
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 8:46 pm
by Botman
That's why I didn't want Myles in over Lussick
Myles has had a long and very successful career and was always capable of a dominant performance against Lui and co
Turns out that's how it played out
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 8:53 pm
by Beejay
Frank Winterstein 13 runs, 121 metres
Addin FB 16 runs, 171 metres
Tapau and Jturbo both 170+ metres
This is why most of the game gets played in our 20...
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 8:54 pm
by Botman
That's bad darts, isnt it?
Paulo and Papalii seemed like they had good games but the rest... eh, you could have thrown a blanket over them
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 8:59 pm
by Manchild
You cannot take it away from Manly. Their line speed was insane. I only watched on Fox so they for some mad reason dont show as far back as the 10m line.
They looked mad quick on the TeeBee.
Why dont FOX or Nein show a shot that you can see the 10 every game? If they want to make this a truely professional NFL level game in the future they will need to have this as a permanent thing.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 9:01 pm
by Beejay
Pigman wrote:That's bad darts, isnt it?
Paulo and Papalii seemed like they had good games but the rest... eh, you could have thrown a blanket over them
They both did play well, and both made about 120 metres- and fought for every one.
However our team gave metres up without a fight, and thus the game got played in our 20 too often.
Austin and Sezer have nothing to do with it. Sezer's kicking game was quite good.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 9:04 pm
by edwahu
I don't think our players have the engine to have amazing line speed all game. Goes with having such a big pack and ripping in in attack like we do. I think it's a tactic and works pretty well, but they maybe overdo it at times.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 9:14 pm
by Manchild
edwahu wrote:I don't think our players have the engine to have amazing line speed all game. Goes with having such a big pack and ripping in in attack like we do. I think it's a tactic and works pretty well, but they maybe overdo it at times.
It seems like that is a gameplan that Stick has implemented.
We seem to be constantly backing ourselves to defend our line rather than be physical off the line.
Kinda makes it hard for our halves and forwards when the opposition turns up witg speed and aggression.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 9:25 pm
by edwahu
Manchild wrote:edwahu wrote:I don't think our players have the engine to have amazing line speed all game. Goes with having such a big pack and ripping in in attack like we do. I think it's a tactic and works pretty well, but they maybe overdo it at times.
It seems like that is a gameplan that Stick has implemented.
We seem to be constantly backing ourselves to defend our line rather than be physical off the line.
Kinda makes it hard for our halves and forwards when the opposition turns up witg speed and aggression.
Yeah, if the opposition don't drop the footy it's tough as well. Still it worked like a charm until the Bateman error.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 9:26 pm
by -TW-
**** Lui is garbage.. why the hell did we sign him
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 9:40 pm
by Coastalraider
So I've been thinking for a few weeks now our mid field line speed issue might actually be a tactic.
We all acknowledge we give up easy meters mid field, and we all acknowledge we have a big pack that can get worn out faster than more mobile packs.
We actually have good line speed and can put on great defensive set when we trap a team in there own 20-30m. In most if not all games this year we have locked a team in there own 30 for a set, so we have the ability to do so when we need to. We defend our own line very well also - technically your own 10m red zone is is the easiest zone to defend as you don't need to be 10m from the play the ball.
I'm starting to think that we are purposely not rushing up as a line in the middle section of the field as a tactic to reduce fatigue on our big men. It means we have to rely on our goal line defence more often than most teams, but in every game this year we have held out teams in our line for sustained periods of time, so I think we are backing our ability to do so.
I'm not sure if I agree with this, but again I think it is happening in certain zones too regularly to be a coincidence.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 21, 2017, 10:03 pm
by GAZF
Coastalraider wrote:So I've been thinking for a few weeks now our mid field line speed issue might actually be a tactic.
We all acknowledge we give up easy meters mid field, and we all acknowledge we have a big pack that can get worn out faster than more mobile packs.
We actually have good line speed and can put on great defensive set when we trap a team in there own 20-30m. In most if not all games this year we have locked a team in there own 30 for a set, so we have the ability to do so when we need to. We defend our own line very well also - technically your own 10m red zone is is the easiest zone to defend as you don't need to be 10m from the play the ball.
I'm starting to think that we are purposely not rushing up as a line in the middle section of the field as a tactic to reduce fatigue on our big men. It means we have to rely on our goal line defence more often than most teams, but in every game this year we have held out teams in our line for sustained periods of time, so I think we are backing our ability to do so.
I'm not sure if I agree with this, but again I think it is happening in certain zones too regularly to be a coincidence.
Manly did it to us tonight. In our faces up to the 40 m line then held back. Mind you, they were rarely back the ten on those rushing tackles.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 22, 2017, 1:10 am
by BadnMean
We might have the engine for more line speed plus increased running "oomph" if we used our interchange differently.
Injury may have forced a small pack on us there- benefit of the doubt, other wise the decision not to play fit DT AGAIN (GC game?) may have cost us another close one...
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 22, 2017, 6:23 am
by pickles
Possession makes a big difference. We had less for the whole game and when we had it it was coming out of our own end with Manly rushing up and getting a penalty every time they dropped the ball.
There were times when our whole team was gassed and you could have thrown a hanky over them.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 22, 2017, 7:54 am
by gangrenous
Possession has been a problem all season and against the better sides last year also.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 22, 2017, 9:45 am
by Canberra Milk
Yeah our metres were usually coming out of our 20, that's why
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 22, 2017, 9:45 am
by Canberra Milk
Manly is not a marshmallow pack either, their forwards were the best part of their team last year
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 22, 2017, 10:11 am
by Woodgers
Beejay I agree with everything you've said here. It was ridiculous to be frank. Manly were just marching up the ground as I was losing my voice screaming to get up and meet them.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 22, 2017, 10:39 am
by Aero
I agree that our slow line speed might be some type of plan to conserve energy for our bigger boys. For most parts it works enough as long as we keep the line strong and dont let line breaks through. We did keep Manly and Warriors try-less for long periods of the game.
Two things about this tactic though:
1- It is stupid to keep doing this during Golden Point extra time (like we did last night) - most teams just need to get to within field goal range so letting the opposition easily march up the field is not something you want to do
2- By having the slow line speed all game, the ref's might be taken by surprise when someone finally shoots up quickly out of the defensive line and falsely call an offiside penalty (e.g. them thinking Austin was offside late in the game when he finally came out to put on a good shot on Kelly).
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 22, 2017, 10:51 am
by Off
Yeah I'm not smelling any goodness of a great year, it'll be a mediocre one with some great tries scored, top 6 at best. I always smell a rat.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 22, 2017, 1:17 pm
by Seiffert82
Manly were insane in that first half. They completed 18/18 sets and even though we were ahead on the scoreboard at half time, they clearly took a lot of our gas out of the tank.
It pains me to say it, but Soliola has not been great this year. He has come up with ball spills at critical times and has made many poor reads in defence. Combine that with poor ball security and lack of impact from Bateman and Lui and it's clear to see how we lose all momentum when our bench comes on.
For that reason I wouldn't be starting Tapine. We simply need him to bolster our second unit.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 22, 2017, 2:21 pm
by papabear
Honestly our forward pack has been garbage
Everyone bitches about our spine but they have been quite good.
Our outside backs superb.
Our forwards have been a joke, half the issue I think is we dont have a real hard man.
Boyd and Paulo are too similar and are playing 30 minute stints when really they are 15-20 min impact props.
We need an angry dog to lead us in the middle.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 22, 2017, 3:26 pm
by MrMilk
papabear wrote:Honestly our forward pack has been garbage
Everyone bitches about our spine but they have been quite good.
Our outside backs superb.
Our forwards have been a joke, half the issue I think is we dont have a real hard man.
Boyd and Paulo are too similar and are playing 30 minute stints when really they are 15-20 min impact props.
We need an angry dog to lead us in the middle.
Paulo and Papa have been holding the pack together in terms of metres, and Whitehead has been linking well with Leipana. Apart from that though we are getting dominated in the middle of the park.
Has it been a loss of personnel or just a drop in form? Since 2015 we've lost Vaughan (huge loss imo), FPN (upgraded in a big way to Paulo), Fensom (like for like-ish with Bateman...), Kennedy... anyone else I'm forgetting?
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 22, 2017, 5:52 pm
by Green eyed Mick
It isn't just our line speed that's causing us problems. It's the amount of offloads we concede.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 22, 2017, 5:59 pm
by Green eyed Mick
MrMilk wrote:papabear wrote:Honestly our forward pack has been garbage
Everyone bitches about our spine but they have been quite good.
Our outside backs superb.
Our forwards have been a joke, half the issue I think is we dont have a real hard man.
Boyd and Paulo are too similar and are playing 30 minute stints when really they are 15-20 min impact props.
We need an angry dog to lead us in the middle.
Paulo and Papa have been holding the pack together in terms of metres, and Whitehead has been linking well with Leipana. Apart from that though we are getting dominated in the middle of the park.
Has it been a loss of personnel or just a drop in form? Since 2015 we've lost Vaughan (huge loss imo), FPN (upgraded in a big way to Paulo), Fensom (like for like-ish with Bateman...), Kennedy... anyone else I'm forgetting?
IMO Boyd and Tapine are down on form.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 23, 2017, 7:42 am
by Seiffert82
Green eyed Mick wrote:It isn't just our line speed that's causing us problems. It's the amount of offloads we concede.
I agree.
Against Cronulla we conceded 12, against Brisbane we conceded 10 and against Manly we conceded 14. The Cows loss was the anomaly, where we only conceded 6.
It's the combination of teams having a relatively high completion rate (75%+) and also getting away offloads that seems to be killing us.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 23, 2017, 7:45 am
by -PJ-
Offloads drive me mad.
I'm forever screaming at the boys to lock the ball up.
Re: Line speed and ruck control
Posted: April 23, 2017, 8:00 am
by yeh raiders
papabear wrote:Our forwards have been a joke, half the issue I think is we dont have a real hard man.
I think we have hard men, but not smart men. Dragons are an example of a well balanced pack.
Packer, Vaughn, De Belin, Tariq Sims, Frizzel and Joel Thompson.
Won't win the comp because McCrone's there, but I give McGregor a lot of credit for recruiting a gun forward pack of smart players.
The best of the lot was Vaughn and we let him slip through our fingers...