Line speed and ruck control

All the news on the Canberra Raiders NRL team, all in one place

Moderator: GH Moderators

User avatar
Beejay
John Ferguson
Posts: 2373
Joined: April 4, 2007, 4:47 pm
Location: Shellharbour

Line speed and ruck control

Post by Beejay » April 21, 2017, 8:07 pm

We are the worst in the comp.

To be giving up 70+ metres against marsh mellow packs is ridiculous. Manly put in a grubber, which trapped us in the ingoal, off a kickoff set!

What is the point of having a massive front row pair, if we allow Lewis brown and co to make 11mtrs a run?

Something needs to change.

User avatar
green_queenslander
Dean Lance
Posts: 880
Joined: April 1, 2010, 5:33 pm
Favourite Player: mal meninga

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by green_queenslander » April 21, 2017, 8:08 pm

Jesus!... time for bed!

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

User avatar
edwahu
Laurie Daley
Posts: 19177
Joined: January 13, 2005, 5:22 pm

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by edwahu » April 21, 2017, 8:10 pm

Line speed is overrated.

User avatar
Beejay
John Ferguson
Posts: 2373
Joined: April 4, 2007, 4:47 pm
Location: Shellharbour

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Beejay » April 21, 2017, 8:30 pm

Nate Myles. 10 runs. 138 metres
TAKE ME NOW I HAVE SEEN IT AAAAAAALLLL

User avatar
CJ42
Laurie Daley
Posts: 12745
Joined: April 12, 2011, 5:13 pm

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by CJ42 » April 21, 2017, 8:33 pm

Beejay wrote:Nate Myles. 10 runs. 138 metres
TAKE ME NOW I HAVE SEEN IT AAAAAAALLLL
He was on the field against lui and Bateman... HAHAHAHAHAHA
Image

User avatar
yeh raiders
Laurie Daley
Posts: 15527
Joined: June 21, 2008, 3:04 pm
Favourite Player: Jack Wighton
Location: Sydney

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by yeh raiders » April 21, 2017, 8:35 pm

Mate Myles... that's embarrassing. Lui needs a spell.. permanently.

-GD-
Don Furner
Posts: 22601
Joined: February 10, 2007, 10:58 pm
Favourite Player: Mal Meninga, Terry Campese, Troy Thompson
Location: ACT

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by -GD- » April 21, 2017, 8:37 pm

Beejay wrote:Nate Myles. 10 runs. 138 metres
TAKE ME NOW I HAVE SEEN IT AAAAAAALLLL
Ho-lee crap thats winding the clock back ten years

User avatar
Beejay
John Ferguson
Posts: 2373
Joined: April 4, 2007, 4:47 pm
Location: Shellharbour

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Beejay » April 21, 2017, 8:44 pm

Shannon Boyd 10 runs, 87 metres

User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 26220
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Botman » April 21, 2017, 8:46 pm

That's why I didn't want Myles in over Lussick
Myles has had a long and very successful career and was always capable of a dominant performance against Lui and co
Turns out that's how it played out
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

User avatar
Beejay
John Ferguson
Posts: 2373
Joined: April 4, 2007, 4:47 pm
Location: Shellharbour

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Beejay » April 21, 2017, 8:53 pm

Frank Winterstein 13 runs, 121 metres
Addin FB 16 runs, 171 metres
Tapau and Jturbo both 170+ metres

This is why most of the game gets played in our 20...

User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 26220
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Botman » April 21, 2017, 8:54 pm

That's bad darts, isnt it?
Paulo and Papalii seemed like they had good games but the rest... eh, you could have thrown a blanket over them
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

User avatar
Manchild
Jason Croker
Posts: 4846
Joined: September 28, 2011, 11:29 am
Favourite Player: Past: Brad Clyde
Present: Shaun Fensom
Location: Darwin, NT

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Manchild » April 21, 2017, 8:59 pm

You cannot take it away from Manly. Their line speed was insane. I only watched on Fox so they for some mad reason dont show as far back as the 10m line.

They looked mad quick on the TeeBee.

Why dont FOX or Nein show a shot that you can see the 10 every game? If they want to make this a truely professional NFL level game in the future they will need to have this as a permanent thing.

User avatar
Beejay
John Ferguson
Posts: 2373
Joined: April 4, 2007, 4:47 pm
Location: Shellharbour

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Beejay » April 21, 2017, 9:01 pm

Pigman wrote:That's bad darts, isnt it?
Paulo and Papalii seemed like they had good games but the rest... eh, you could have thrown a blanket over them
They both did play well, and both made about 120 metres- and fought for every one.
However our team gave metres up without a fight, and thus the game got played in our 20 too often.
Austin and Sezer have nothing to do with it. Sezer's kicking game was quite good.

User avatar
edwahu
Laurie Daley
Posts: 19177
Joined: January 13, 2005, 5:22 pm

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by edwahu » April 21, 2017, 9:04 pm

I don't think our players have the engine to have amazing line speed all game. Goes with having such a big pack and ripping in in attack like we do. I think it's a tactic and works pretty well, but they maybe overdo it at times.

User avatar
Manchild
Jason Croker
Posts: 4846
Joined: September 28, 2011, 11:29 am
Favourite Player: Past: Brad Clyde
Present: Shaun Fensom
Location: Darwin, NT

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Manchild » April 21, 2017, 9:14 pm

edwahu wrote:I don't think our players have the engine to have amazing line speed all game. Goes with having such a big pack and ripping in in attack like we do. I think it's a tactic and works pretty well, but they maybe overdo it at times.
It seems like that is a gameplan that Stick has implemented.

We seem to be constantly backing ourselves to defend our line rather than be physical off the line.

Kinda makes it hard for our halves and forwards when the opposition turns up witg speed and aggression.

User avatar
edwahu
Laurie Daley
Posts: 19177
Joined: January 13, 2005, 5:22 pm

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by edwahu » April 21, 2017, 9:25 pm

Manchild wrote:
edwahu wrote:I don't think our players have the engine to have amazing line speed all game. Goes with having such a big pack and ripping in in attack like we do. I think it's a tactic and works pretty well, but they maybe overdo it at times.
It seems like that is a gameplan that Stick has implemented.

We seem to be constantly backing ourselves to defend our line rather than be physical off the line.

Kinda makes it hard for our halves and forwards when the opposition turns up witg speed and aggression.
Yeah, if the opposition don't drop the footy it's tough as well. Still it worked like a charm until the Bateman error.

User avatar
-TW-
Mal Meninga
Posts: 30754
Joined: July 2, 2007, 11:41 am

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by -TW- » April 21, 2017, 9:26 pm

**** Lui is garbage.. why the hell did we sign him

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

User avatar
Coastalraider
John Ferguson
Posts: 2234
Joined: May 31, 2015, 7:25 am
Favourite Player: Dean Lance

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Coastalraider » April 21, 2017, 9:40 pm

So I've been thinking for a few weeks now our mid field line speed issue might actually be a tactic.

We all acknowledge we give up easy meters mid field, and we all acknowledge we have a big pack that can get worn out faster than more mobile packs.

We actually have good line speed and can put on great defensive set when we trap a team in there own 20-30m. In most if not all games this year we have locked a team in there own 30 for a set, so we have the ability to do so when we need to. We defend our own line very well also - technically your own 10m red zone is is the easiest zone to defend as you don't need to be 10m from the play the ball.

I'm starting to think that we are purposely not rushing up as a line in the middle section of the field as a tactic to reduce fatigue on our big men. It means we have to rely on our goal line defence more often than most teams, but in every game this year we have held out teams in our line for sustained periods of time, so I think we are backing our ability to do so.

I'm not sure if I agree with this, but again I think it is happening in certain zones too regularly to be a coincidence.

User avatar
GAZF
Clinton Schifcofske
Posts: 589
Joined: July 8, 2005, 12:59 am

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by GAZF » April 21, 2017, 10:03 pm

Coastalraider wrote:So I've been thinking for a few weeks now our mid field line speed issue might actually be a tactic.

We all acknowledge we give up easy meters mid field, and we all acknowledge we have a big pack that can get worn out faster than more mobile packs.

We actually have good line speed and can put on great defensive set when we trap a team in there own 20-30m. In most if not all games this year we have locked a team in there own 30 for a set, so we have the ability to do so when we need to. We defend our own line very well also - technically your own 10m red zone is is the easiest zone to defend as you don't need to be 10m from the play the ball.

I'm starting to think that we are purposely not rushing up as a line in the middle section of the field as a tactic to reduce fatigue on our big men. It means we have to rely on our goal line defence more often than most teams, but in every game this year we have held out teams in our line for sustained periods of time, so I think we are backing our ability to do so.

I'm not sure if I agree with this, but again I think it is happening in certain zones too regularly to be a coincidence.
Manly did it to us tonight. In our faces up to the 40 m line then held back. Mind you, they were rarely back the ten on those rushing tackles.

User avatar
BadnMean
John Ferguson
Posts: 2977
Joined: May 13, 2013, 5:30 pm
Favourite Player: chicka

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by BadnMean » April 22, 2017, 1:10 am

We might have the engine for more line speed plus increased running "oomph" if we used our interchange differently.

Injury may have forced a small pack on us there- benefit of the doubt, other wise the decision not to play fit DT AGAIN (GC game?) may have cost us another close one...

User avatar
pickles
Jason Croker
Posts: 4828
Joined: November 18, 2007, 2:04 pm
Location: Callala Bay

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by pickles » April 22, 2017, 6:23 am

Possession makes a big difference. We had less for the whole game and when we had it it was coming out of our own end with Manly rushing up and getting a penalty every time they dropped the ball.

There were times when our whole team was gassed and you could have thrown a hanky over them.

User avatar
gangrenous
Laurie Daley
Posts: 10159
Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by gangrenous » April 22, 2017, 7:54 am

Possession has been a problem all season and against the better sides last year also.

User avatar
Canberra Milk
Laurie Daley
Posts: 10757
Joined: January 6, 2005, 8:44 pm
Favourite Player: Leipana

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Canberra Milk » April 22, 2017, 9:45 am

Yeah our metres were usually coming out of our 20, that's why

User avatar
Canberra Milk
Laurie Daley
Posts: 10757
Joined: January 6, 2005, 8:44 pm
Favourite Player: Leipana

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Canberra Milk » April 22, 2017, 9:45 am

Manly is not a marshmallow pack either, their forwards were the best part of their team last year

User avatar
Woodgers
Bradley Clyde
Posts: 8226
Joined: February 1, 2005, 10:34 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Woodgers » April 22, 2017, 10:11 am

Beejay I agree with everything you've said here. It was ridiculous to be frank. Manly were just marching up the ground as I was losing my voice screaming to get up and meet them.
We continue to **** about with blokes that are part of some fraternity. It's infuriating.

User avatar
Aero
Laurie Daley
Posts: 11560
Joined: May 19, 2006, 9:38 am
Location: Campbelltown

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Aero » April 22, 2017, 10:39 am

I agree that our slow line speed might be some type of plan to conserve energy for our bigger boys. For most parts it works enough as long as we keep the line strong and dont let line breaks through. We did keep Manly and Warriors try-less for long periods of the game.

Two things about this tactic though:

1- It is stupid to keep doing this during Golden Point extra time (like we did last night) - most teams just need to get to within field goal range so letting the opposition easily march up the field is not something you want to do

2- By having the slow line speed all game, the ref's might be taken by surprise when someone finally shoots up quickly out of the defensive line and falsely call an offiside penalty (e.g. them thinking Austin was offside late in the game when he finally came out to put on a good shot on Kelly).
Image
2012, 2014 and 2015 Boogs Avatar/Signature of the Year

User avatar
Question
Laurie Daley
Posts: 13751
Joined: May 20, 2007, 5:13 pm

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Question » April 22, 2017, 10:51 am

Yeah I'm not smelling any goodness of a great year, it'll be a mediocre one with some great tries scored, top 6 at best. I always smell a rat.

User avatar
Seiffert82
Mal Meninga
Posts: 22105
Joined: March 17, 2007, 12:24 pm
Favourite Player: Bay56

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Seiffert82 » April 22, 2017, 1:17 pm

Manly were insane in that first half. They completed 18/18 sets and even though we were ahead on the scoreboard at half time, they clearly took a lot of our gas out of the tank.

It pains me to say it, but Soliola has not been great this year. He has come up with ball spills at critical times and has made many poor reads in defence. Combine that with poor ball security and lack of impact from Bateman and Lui and it's clear to see how we lose all momentum when our bench comes on.

For that reason I wouldn't be starting Tapine. We simply need him to bolster our second unit.

User avatar
papabear
Gary Belcher
Posts: 6202
Joined: August 27, 2007, 2:26 pm
Location: redfern

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by papabear » April 22, 2017, 2:21 pm

Honestly our forward pack has been garbage

Everyone bitches about our spine but they have been quite good.

Our outside backs superb.

Our forwards have been a joke, half the issue I think is we dont have a real hard man.

Boyd and Paulo are too similar and are playing 30 minute stints when really they are 15-20 min impact props.

We need an angry dog to lead us in the middle.

MrMilk
Clinton Schifcofske
Posts: 527
Joined: October 7, 2010, 9:40 pm
Favourite Player: Terry Campese

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by MrMilk » April 22, 2017, 3:26 pm

papabear wrote:Honestly our forward pack has been garbage

Everyone bitches about our spine but they have been quite good.

Our outside backs superb.

Our forwards have been a joke, half the issue I think is we dont have a real hard man.

Boyd and Paulo are too similar and are playing 30 minute stints when really they are 15-20 min impact props.

We need an angry dog to lead us in the middle.
Paulo and Papa have been holding the pack together in terms of metres, and Whitehead has been linking well with Leipana. Apart from that though we are getting dominated in the middle of the park.

Has it been a loss of personnel or just a drop in form? Since 2015 we've lost Vaughan (huge loss imo), FPN (upgraded in a big way to Paulo), Fensom (like for like-ish with Bateman...), Kennedy... anyone else I'm forgetting?

Green eyed Mick
Laurie Daley
Posts: 13410
Joined: February 26, 2010, 6:01 pm
Favourite Player: Brett Mullins
Location: Canberra :(

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Green eyed Mick » April 22, 2017, 5:52 pm

It isn't just our line speed that's causing us problems. It's the amount of offloads we concede.

Green eyed Mick
Laurie Daley
Posts: 13410
Joined: February 26, 2010, 6:01 pm
Favourite Player: Brett Mullins
Location: Canberra :(

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Green eyed Mick » April 22, 2017, 5:59 pm

MrMilk wrote:
papabear wrote:Honestly our forward pack has been garbage

Everyone bitches about our spine but they have been quite good.

Our outside backs superb.

Our forwards have been a joke, half the issue I think is we dont have a real hard man.

Boyd and Paulo are too similar and are playing 30 minute stints when really they are 15-20 min impact props.

We need an angry dog to lead us in the middle.
Paulo and Papa have been holding the pack together in terms of metres, and Whitehead has been linking well with Leipana. Apart from that though we are getting dominated in the middle of the park.

Has it been a loss of personnel or just a drop in form? Since 2015 we've lost Vaughan (huge loss imo), FPN (upgraded in a big way to Paulo), Fensom (like for like-ish with Bateman...), Kennedy... anyone else I'm forgetting?
IMO Boyd and Tapine are down on form.

User avatar
Seiffert82
Mal Meninga
Posts: 22105
Joined: March 17, 2007, 12:24 pm
Favourite Player: Bay56

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by Seiffert82 » April 23, 2017, 7:42 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:It isn't just our line speed that's causing us problems. It's the amount of offloads we concede.
I agree.

Against Cronulla we conceded 12, against Brisbane we conceded 10 and against Manly we conceded 14. The Cows loss was the anomaly, where we only conceded 6.

It's the combination of teams having a relatively high completion rate (75%+) and also getting away offloads that seems to be killing us.

User avatar
-PJ-
Laurie Daley
Posts: 18283
Joined: May 8, 2010, 1:58 pm
Favourite Player: Joseph Tapine
Location: 416.9 km from GIO Stadium

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by -PJ- » April 23, 2017, 7:45 am

Offloads drive me mad.

I'm forever screaming at the boys to lock the ball up.
3rd Battalion Royal Australian Regiment..Old Faithful
#emptythetank :shock:
I am not an alcoholic, I'm a binge drinker lacking opportunity..

User avatar
yeh raiders
Laurie Daley
Posts: 15527
Joined: June 21, 2008, 3:04 pm
Favourite Player: Jack Wighton
Location: Sydney

Re: Line speed and ruck control

Post by yeh raiders » April 23, 2017, 8:00 am

papabear wrote:Our forwards have been a joke, half the issue I think is we dont have a real hard man.
I think we have hard men, but not smart men. Dragons are an example of a well balanced pack.

Packer, Vaughn, De Belin, Tariq Sims, Frizzel and Joel Thompson.

Won't win the comp because McCrone's there, but I give McGregor a lot of credit for recruiting a gun forward pack of smart players.

The best of the lot was Vaughn and we let him slip through our fingers...

Post Reply