Do we want to lose a game?

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Matt
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Matt »

I don't think we need to lose a game, however, history suggests you do.

As for resting players, I think last week was the week to do it. However, if we cant improve on 3rd, may as well rest some players this week.

I'm with others, top of my list are Papalii, Whitehead, Sezer, with Wighton, BJ and Boyd next on my list.

The issue with resting Sezer is that we are already 1 starting half down and our 2nd replacement half has an ACL injury. The options outside of this are Whitehead to 6, which Ricky has done this yr, OR Hodgson, OR Baptiste. Given Id prefer to rest Whitehead, Hodgson to 6 would be my choice, as Clysdale for 20-30mins seems more preferable than another backrower, and it keeps Hodgson a little wider and hopefully out of harms way. That said, I think unless Sezer's shoulder is truly stuffed, he probably has to play.

Fensom to lock, so Soliola can play wider for Whitehead or Papalii sounds like a no brainer to me. This is the kind of change that Ricky could do anyway. I cant see both players getting a rest though, as it would probably mean JK on an edge, OR experimentation, with say Tapine - which Im not a huge fan of.

If Lima is fit, you could easily bring him and/ or Priest in for a middle or 2. Maybe Boyd, Tapine and/ or Bateman get a rest? I think id be leaving Paulo out another week too, even if he says he is right.

You could also bring Brenko in for any of the outside backs if required. I doubt it would be Croker as captain, and Eddy has had plenty of break this yr. So if BJ or Rapa need a week, they can have it.

If Jack needs a wk, then bring in Santo.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Matt »

Pigman wrote:Yeah there is no way if we can get 2nd place and a home semi in week one that Stuart will rest players.
We get a home semi against the Sharks and we've got a REAL big chance to give everyone a break in week 2 of the finals. That's gotta be the play

If we're locked into 3rd, our game is meaningless and that's when resting some players with some niggles could be beneficial, pending the severity of their injuries and what the medical staff believe about the benefits of a week off for those niggles. Stuart will do the right thing for our big picture
100% agree
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by The Nickman »

Bay53 wrote:Winning the first final is the key. If that means we have to rest a few this week, I have no problem with that.

Interesting both ANZ Stadium and Lang Park are not going to be available the first Saturday of the finals. At the moment they are in the box seat to host the Elimination Finals which are normally played after the Qualifying finals. (Or at least the same day - last year 5 v 8 was played just before 2 v 3).

I think there is a real chance we will be asked to play on the Friday night. Interesting too that the only AFL game in Melbourne will be Friday which makes me more think they won't want to play Melbourne at home on the Friday up against Geelong v Hawthorn.
No team in the last five years that has played the Sunday in Round 26 has had to play the Friday night game.

I reckon either us, Panthers or Tigers (if they make it) will get the Sunday game. The other two will get the Saturday games. 1 vs 4 will almost definitely get the Friday night game.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Northern Raider »

There are 3 possible matches for the Raiders in Week 1. Storm in Melbourne, Sharks in Canberra or Sharks in Sydney. If its the latter there is no way they will schedule the match at ANZ Stadium. They will play at Allianz either Saturday or Sunday.

Friday night game will be one of: Broncos vs Titan/Tigers; Cowboys vs Titans; Storm vs Cowboys. Bulldogs* vs Panthers is almost certain for ANZ on the Sunday.

* I'm assuming Dogs finish 6th.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Azza »

I'm pretty sure we'd play at Cronulla in week 1 if we finished 3rd would we not (if Cronulla finish 2nd)? Isn't it just 'regional' venues for week 3 onwards?
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by The Nickman »

Northern Raider wrote:There are 3 possible matches for the Raiders in Week 1. Storm in Melbourne, Sharks in Canberra or Sharks in Sydney. If its the latter there is no way they will schedule the match at ANZ Stadium. They will play at Allianz either Saturday or Sunday.

Friday night game will be one of: Broncos vs Titan/Tigers; Cowboys vs Titans; Storm vs Cowboys. Bulldogs* vs Panthers is almost certain for ANZ on the Sunday.

* I'm assuming Dogs finish 6th.
They won't make the Tigers back up on Friday night either, if they make the 8. I'm almost certain it will be 1 vs 4.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by reptar »

I read that's there's conjecture over whether we should rest players.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Northern Raider »

The Nickman wrote:
Northern Raider wrote:There are 3 possible matches for the Raiders in Week 1. Storm in Melbourne, Sharks in Canberra or Sharks in Sydney. If its the latter there is no way they will schedule the match at ANZ Stadium. They will play at Allianz either Saturday or Sunday.

Friday night game will be one of: Broncos vs Titan/Tigers; Cowboys vs Titans; Storm vs Cowboys. Bulldogs* vs Panthers is almost certain for ANZ on the Sunday.

* I'm assuming Dogs finish 6th.
They won't make the Tigers back up on Friday night either, if they make the 8. I'm almost certain it will be 1 vs 4.
Fair point. Issue is Broncos can only play at home Friday or Sunday. Bulldogs vs Panthers would be at ANZ which cannot be used on Saturday. Would mean either Panthers or Tigers have to back up 5 days. Tiger draw the short straw as they are further down the ladder. Ch9 would also want Broncos in the main time slot.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by CJ42 »

simo wrote:What i don't understand is why people assume we will lose this weekend if we rest players. This is a terrible tigers outfit missing their best player. They were awful against the warriors, the warriors were just awfuller.
Firmly in this camp.


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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by The Nickman »

Northern Raider wrote:
The Nickman wrote:
Northern Raider wrote:There are 3 possible matches for the Raiders in Week 1. Storm in Melbourne, Sharks in Canberra or Sharks in Sydney. If its the latter there is no way they will schedule the match at ANZ Stadium. They will play at Allianz either Saturday or Sunday.

Friday night game will be one of: Broncos vs Titan/Tigers; Cowboys vs Titans; Storm vs Cowboys. Bulldogs* vs Panthers is almost certain for ANZ on the Sunday.

* I'm assuming Dogs finish 6th.
They won't make the Tigers back up on Friday night either, if they make the 8. I'm almost certain it will be 1 vs 4.
Fair point. Issue is Broncos can only play at home Friday or Sunday. Bulldogs vs Panthers would be at ANZ which cannot be used on Saturday. Would mean either Panthers or Tigers have to back up 5 days. Tiger draw the short straw as they are further down the ladder. Ch9 would also want Broncos in the main time slot.
Couldn't they play the Broncos on Sunday and the Panthers vs Bulldogs on Saturday at the SFS??
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by CJ42 »

Azza wrote:I'm pretty sure we'd play at Cronulla in week 1 if we finished 3rd would we not (if Cronulla finish 2nd)? Isn't it just 'regional' venues for week 3 onwards?
No chance of playing at Cronulla full stop.
The only teams in the Comp that can have real home finals in week 1 and 2 are:
Broncos, Cowboys, Knights, raiders, storm, Warriors, Souths, roosters, Bulldogs.
All the rest have to play at anz or sfs, crowd wise is still a home game though.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Northern Raider »

The Nickman wrote:
Northern Raider wrote:
The Nickman wrote:
Northern Raider wrote:There are 3 possible matches for the Raiders in Week 1. Storm in Melbourne, Sharks in Canberra or Sharks in Sydney. If its the latter there is no way they will schedule the match at ANZ Stadium. They will play at Allianz either Saturday or Sunday.

Friday night game will be one of: Broncos vs Titan/Tigers; Cowboys vs Titans; Storm vs Cowboys. Bulldogs* vs Panthers is almost certain for ANZ on the Sunday.

* I'm assuming Dogs finish 6th.
They won't make the Tigers back up on Friday night either, if they make the 8. I'm almost certain it will be 1 vs 4.
Fair point. Issue is Broncos can only play at home Friday or Sunday. Bulldogs vs Panthers would be at ANZ which cannot be used on Saturday. Would mean either Panthers or Tigers have to back up 5 days. Tiger draw the short straw as they are further down the ladder. Ch9 would also want Broncos in the main time slot.
Couldn't they play the Broncos on Sunday and the Panthers vs Bulldogs on Saturday at the SFS??
2 western Sydney teams. They will want to use the west Sydney venue. Also its the Dog's home ground.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Azza »

CJ42 wrote:
Azza wrote:I'm pretty sure we'd play at Cronulla in week 1 if we finished 3rd would we not (if Cronulla finish 2nd)? Isn't it just 'regional' venues for week 3 onwards?
No chance of playing at Cronulla full stop.
The only teams in the Comp that can have real home finals in week 1 and 2 are:
Broncos, Cowboys, Knights, raiders, storm, Warriors, Souths, roosters, Bulldogs.
All the rest have to play at anz or sfs, crowd wise is still a home game though.
Yes you're right. If that's the case, I'd be less worried about finishing 3rd week 1 and playing Cronulla.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Green Hornet »

no for a loss from me.

We we play hard and play our best team possible and lose then it would send more of a shock wave through our team then if we rested players and lost.

This would just give us an excuse as to why we lost and would teach the player nothing.

Potentially only need 4 more wins to lift the trophy so keep the momentum going.
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Do we want to lose a game?

Post by The Nickman »

"Potentially" we only need three, and they can come off the back of two straight losses!
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Sid »

@OP
No. Not this season. Not ever.


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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by luke »

"The game we needed to lose" is just something you say after you lose.

Until then, you should keep winning.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by reptar »

luke wrote:"The game we needed to lose" is just something you say after you lose.

Until then, you should keep winning.
If there was a "Chief Headologist of the Year" award at the Golden Boogs, I'd be awarding it to you right now, luke.
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Do we want to lose a game?

Post by CJ42 »

luke wrote:"The game we needed to lose" is just something you say after you lose.

Until then, you should keep winning.
I find sometimes when a team is winning and it's only just winning (I wouldn't put our last two games in this category) that they sometimes need a loss.


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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Azza »

As Bane would say - "victory has defeated you"

Mind you, I don't think that applies in our case here.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Northern Raider »

Raiders have been doing exactly what they needed to do to win.

Warriors challenged us with a late comeback Raiders defied the momentum of the game won in GP.
Souths were pathetic and the Raiders put 50 on them without getting out of 2nd gear.
Took their game to the next level beating the ladder leading Sharks.
Turned it up another notch beating the Storm by 14 despite only having 45% possession.
Got behind early against the Eels got serious and blew them away in the 2nd half.
A bit flat going against the Sea Eagles who played like they had nothing to lose. Did what was required to win by a comfortable margin. Never really looked like losing.

The above tells me they have it under pretty good control. Turning it on when they have to. This is not a team who 'needs to lose a game'.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Kryptonite »

cat wrote:I think our wins against parra and especially the eagles are our "loses" , its just we didnt lose

If that makes sense
Makes perfect sense, so metaphorical we need to win and win well before the first final
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by CJ42 »

Northern Raider wrote:Raiders have been doing exactly what they needed to do to win.

Warriors challenged us with a late comeback Raiders defied the momentum of the game won in GP.
Souths were pathetic and the Raiders put 50 on them without getting out of 2nd gear.
Took their game to the next level beating the ladder leading Sharks.
Turned it up another notch beating the Storm by 14 despite only having 45% possession.
Got behind early against the Eels got serious and blew them away in the 2nd half.
A bit flat going against the Sea Eagles who played like they had nothing to lose. Did what was required to win by a comfortable margin. Never really looked like losing.

The above tells me they have it under pretty good control. Turning it on when they have to. This is not a team who 'needs to lose a game'.
Yeah I'm not worried as it stands!


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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by -TW- »

Northern Raider wrote:There are 3 possible matches for the Raiders in Week 1. Storm in Melbourne, Sharks in Canberra or Sharks in Sydney. If its the latter there is no way they will schedule the match at ANZ Stadium. They will play at Allianz either Saturday or Sunday.

Friday night game will be one of: Broncos vs Titan/Tigers; Cowboys vs Titans; Storm vs Cowboys. Bulldogs* vs Panthers is almost certain for ANZ on the Sunday.

* I'm assuming Dogs finish 6th.
I'm pretty sure our game will be 8pm Saturday
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by RedRaider »

With resting players I am concerned about our defence. We had a 5/8 missing last week and looked terrible on one side. If we suddenly miss a few players we do not get the chance to fix the problems of last week under match conditions. Having said that, my first reaction is always to keep the winning side together. But Sticky is closer to the true nature of the injuries than me, so if he makes the call to rest some then he would have good reason.

I agree with Bay53 on his first sentence a couple of pages back though. If we win the first final then everyone can have a week off. Regardless of where we finish on the ladder that match has to be the focus.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Northern Raider »

RedRaider wrote:With resting players I am concerned about our defence. We had a 5/8 missing last week and looked terrible on one side. If we suddenly miss a few players we do not get the chance to fix the problems of last week under match conditions. Having said that, my first reaction is always to keep the winning side together. But Sticky is closer to the true nature of the injuries than me, so if he makes the call to rest some then he would have good reason.

I agree with Bay53 on his first sentence a couple of pages back though. If we win the first final then everyone can have a week off. Regardless of where we finish on the ladder that match has to be the focus.
I doubt anybody will be rested just to reduce their workload. It will be those who are carrying niggles that could benefit for the week off leading in to finals.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Botman »

Exactly NR
Resting players would be with the view of making that week 1 game the focus

I don't think combinations are a big issue, they train in those situations all week. They've played all year with each other, one week isn't going to undo the combinations or momentum built up over a year

But if we can get some key players feeling fresh and heathy for the finals, that's got to be strongly considered if our 3rd place is locked in


Tbh I think this is all a bit of nothing issue because I think the storm will beat the Sharks and the raiders are going to go hell for leather for 2nd place
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by julian87 »

Pigman wrote:Rather easily. You start with the spine, figure out the severity of their injuries, if they would benefit from a week off, they get it

That's Sezer, Wighton, Hodgson

If you've got room to work with after that, you go to the 80 minute forwards - Papa and Whitehead and Shannon Boyd and Paulo

And then the key backs - Bj, Croker, Rapana...

We don't know the full extent of their niggles but the club will. Let them make the call on who needs the weeks breather and who doesn't
Yep I agree with this. It's pretty much rest no-one if we can come 2nd, but if we can't it's mass rest for the squad. I'd imagine if Stuart is thinking this way he has had the club look into our situation with 2nd tier cap etc to see how many reserves we can bring in if needed.

What I think would be a bad idea is resting only 2-4 of our big players and giving some of our other key players a harder game. If we can only come 3rd I'd seriously rest 8+ players if possible.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Botman »

Ideally I'd like to see Boyd, Hodgson, Wighton, Papalii, Whitehead and Beej rested if we can't get 2nd place.

Junior and Sezer also sitting. I think we could fill in the gaps with those guys on the bench
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Raidersfan »

Interesting to know the results of teams following a bye although they could be skewed with a range of things such as SOO reps, both teams coming of a bye, short turnarounds, etc .. Matt ??
Also interesting that the AFL has a bye this coming weekend prior to the finals .. a strategy introduced due to counter what might be the case with the Raiders v Tigers game.

My preference would be a battled hardened unit competing in finals week 1 (unless absolutely necessary).
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Northern Raider »

Pigman wrote:Ideally I'd like to see Boyd, Hodgson, Wighton, Papalii, Whitehead and Beej rested if we can't get 2nd place.

Junior and Sezer also sitting. I think we could fill in the gaps with those guys on the bench
Just had a week off. No need to give him another one. With Baptiste on the bench you can easily reduce his minutes if needed. Wouldn't hurt giving Boyd a break. He's been up for a while now. As for Paps, Whitehead and BJ I'd be asking them if they wanted a break. They all strike me as players who prefer to keep going.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by Botman »

Not about resting Hodgson for a breather
It's about him being so insanely important to this side that risking injury in a meaningless game would be madness
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by CJ42 »

Raidersfan wrote:Interesting to know the results of teams following a bye although they could be skewed with a range of things such as SOO reps, both teams coming of a bye, short turnarounds, etc .. Matt ??
Also interesting that the AFL has a bye this coming weekend prior to the finals .. a strategy introduced due to counter what might be the case with the Raiders v Tigers game.

My preference would be a battled hardened unit competing in finals week 1 (unless absolutely necessary).
The bye will absolutely stuff it up for teams like GWS. Two weeks to think about finals won't do them any good. Would be amazing if they beat Sydney though.


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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by julian87 »

Pigman wrote:Not about resting Hodgson for a breather
It's about him being so insanely important to this side that risking injury in a meaningless game would be madness
Yeah this. It's a pretty simple concept. If we're stuck in 3rd regardless we'd be absolutely crazy to play our most important players in a meaningless game that can only effect 2 things; confidence and health.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: Do we want to lose a game?

Post by CJ42 »

The problem is getting players out of reggies, when do Mounties play?


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