2012 Rd 13 V Wests Tigers: Teams and Previews *Team p1*

[-PJ-]

dont forget fensom rod !!!!

[Rodman]

dont forget fensom rod !!!!

He would be Williams' bodyguard.

[tommyhud9]

I really do hope we see Dugan at #6, been hoping for it since Campo did his knee. We need to change something up.

Dream on, Furner wouldn't do something that drastic.

What a good judge

[kiwi raider]

Without Williams kicking game we are going to have to win this game by playing an expansive running style of football IMO, maybe that's why Furner has only named one Prop on the bench. i'm disappointed Williams was the only sacrificial lamb when TLL and Croker keep there starting spots although if Wightons injury is the only reason Croker is safe for now then Furner doesn't really have many other options. Looking forward to seeing Dugan at 5/8 in what should be a very attacking game.

[tommyhud9]

Love the team. Wish Berrigan was starting ahead of Waddell though. Still very good

[markqt]

Is Buttriss still injured?

[Raider47]

Just now hoping that come Saturday, Waddell is no where near the 17 that run out.

Would love to see Berrigan to starting hooker, with Buttriss in #14.

[Irwinfletch]

Thurling for Picker and Buttriss for Waddell and it would be a good side.

x2

[bbbelch]

wa-da-hell is wadell doing in the team, his poor dummy half passing lost moment for us in the front third early in the game last weekend. It was so poor he should have been dropped below the mounties!!!

[Stuat]

Without Williams kicking game we are going to have to win this game by playing an expansive running style of football IMO, maybe that's why Furner has only named one Prop on the bench. i'm disappointed Williams was the only sacrificial lamb when TLL and Croker keep there starting spots although if Wightons injury is the only reason Croker is safe for now then Furner doesn't really have many other options. Looking forward to seeing Dugan at 5/8 in what should be a very attacking game.

Agree

Although Dugan does have the best long kicking game of all our halves options which will help us immensely. It's something neither Williams or McCrone have at this point in time and should help take a bit of pressure off us (hopefully). We simply can't allow clubs to start their sets from the 40 or 50 meter line most of the time. Where we may struggle is closer to the line. McCrone's short kicking game is pretty poor. He can set up tries (usually with the ol' bomb to the corner move) but he is rubbish at forcing repeat sets/tactical kicking. So often his fifth tackle options are just really poor. Its a huge gap for us. Williams has shown good signs in that regard but he definitely isn't a finished product. Given the defensive issues Williams is having, this might be our best halves combo at the moment, however it's still a pretty weak one. That said if Dugan is on, he can probably carry the side all by himself, a bit like Campo. He is capable of running the side as a one man band which is a better fit with McCrone in the halves, although its a huge ask week to week.

Longer term, we really need either McCrone's decision making/5th tackle option/short kicking game/organizational game to improve or Williams defensive and running games to improve and him to grow into the obvious potential as an organiser/tactician. Without Campo our halves simply lack so many core skills. When Campo is fit, he does those things, when he is gone there is a massive void, that nobody has the skill set to cover even adequately. We can no longer just hope Campo is fit.

[-GD-]

If Waddell drops off and Berrigan comes in with Buttriss moved to the bench i would be pretty happy.

If in coming weeks Trev comes in for Picker and Wighton for Croker i would be happy with our side

[luke]

have moved from the 'turning up on Saturday out of support for the team' column to the 'genuinely excited to watch us go around' column.

[edwahu]

My main concern with Dugan moving is how he handles the defensive workload. The Tigers will be running guys at him all day. Though with the rest of that backline, I think they will be running at everyone.

[Green_Hammock]

Wow, I'm actually shocked at the team list. This is close to my team but I am truly surprised that Furner made the change of Dugan to 5/8th.

I think Berrigan will be the starting hooker, it will be a late change, maybe Buttriss coming in for Waddell if we are lucky as well. Also Thurling and Wighton are possibilities to come into the team.

[KingDynamite]

I'd like to see Dugan at 6 for several reasons. Firstly Williams is currently well short of NRL standard and we need an alternative half. Secondly it will get Dugan's hands on the ball more often and create options for him. Thirdly Robinson is an infinitely better fullback than he is a winger.

The current make up of the side is simply ordinary and this is the kind of positional change that could provide the spark we desperately need.

Personally I don't think Williams deserves to be dropped, especially after last week where he was easily the better half...

What we lack is direction, control and and a kicking game out of the halves. It has a huge impact on the rest of the side... For 20 minutes against the rabbits Williams showed what he is capable of in that department... Our only period of ascendency in that game came on the back of a very good little patch by Williams. He controlled the game, with some great kicking (touch finder at the 5m line, grass turning the back three around caught within 10 meter line, two repeat sets and a try, all off the boot). We need that for 80 minutes though not 15-20... McCrone has shown he is hopeless at that side of the game. For all his upside, he is rubbish at controlling, turning momentum, field position, tactical kicking etc. He is a running 5/8, who gives very little organizational support to his halves partner. His weaknesses in that department were again demonstrated against the rabbits in the second half as they were last year.

However, I do think we desperately need Dugan handling the ball more often and doing more of our long kicking and kicking in general. His long kicking game is the best we have. He has a good understanding of the game and seems to be improving organizationally and tactically. So I'm actually pro the idea somewhat.

Personally if I was going to make the move, it would be more radical, I'd keep Williams, who despite being a long way off in some areas, has skills we desperately need and I'd move McCrone to the bench as our back up hooker/super sub. 1-Robbo 6- Dugan 7- Williams 9- Berrigan 14- McCrone. We desperately need a spine that can match it with the others. I can't see Williams/McCrone doing that, I can't see Dugan/McCrone doing that, I really think we need to milk all the talent and strengths out off all three, as well as utilizing Robbo and Berrigan to have a chance. We potentially have the skill sets we need to improve it though, I just see them residing in three players (McCrone, Dugan, Williams) not two like more traditional "halves pairings". If we are going to successfully "replace" Campo, I think we probably need to use the skill sets of all three...

Another great post stuat!
Dropping Williams would be madness considering no other option has a short kicking game, I agree we need Dugan to give us that long range option, I'd like to see Dugan doing about 60% of the long range kicking and Williams doing the remainder, Williams should also be doing as close to 100% of the short/attacking kicking as possible, McCrone only to kick when Dugan and Williams are unable to

I completely disagree, how many times has williams put the ball up on the opposition 30m line only for it to come come down on the 20m or 10m? Williams is not up to 1st grade standard and after the considerable time he has had I am not sure whether he has the heart to. One thing McCrone has is heart, for example McCrone's first season in the NRL he was rather slender, he came back the year after putting great effort in to improve himself physically and a player and thats where his improved defence and running game has come from. He may not be the 'organising' half we need but he is of great value to this team and it would be ludacris to drop him or relegate him to the bench.

Rant over.

[Northern Raider]

My main concern with Dugan moving is how he handles the defensive workload. The Tigers will be running guys at him all day. Though with the rest of that backline, I think they will be running at everyone.

Better them running at Dugan than Williams.

[DJ89]

Did Dugan ever play 5/8 in TYC?

[jtraider]

Just seen it on the news I think he will go pretty good and it let's Reece go back to fullback which gives us more attacking options

[Stuat]

I'd like to see Dugan at 6 for several reasons. Firstly Williams is currently well short of NRL standard and we need an alternative half. Secondly it will get Dugan's hands on the ball more often and create options for him. Thirdly Robinson is an infinitely better fullback than he is a winger.

The current make up of the side is simply ordinary and this is the kind of positional change that could provide the spark we desperately need.

Personally I don't think Williams deserves to be dropped, especially after last week where he was easily the better half...

What we lack is direction, control and and a kicking game out of the halves. It has a huge impact on the rest of the side... For 20 minutes against the rabbits Williams showed what he is capable of in that department... Our only period of ascendency in that game came on the back of a very good little patch by Williams. He controlled the game, with some great kicking (touch finder at the 5m line, grass turning the back three around caught within 10 meter line, two repeat sets and a try, all off the boot). We need that for 80 minutes though not 15-20... McCrone has shown he is hopeless at that side of the game. For all his upside, he is rubbish at controlling, turning momentum, field position, tactical kicking etc. He is a running 5/8, who gives very little organizational support to his halves partner. His weaknesses in that department were again demonstrated against the rabbits in the second half as they were last year.

However, I do think we desperately need Dugan handling the ball more often and doing more of our long kicking and kicking in general. His long kicking game is the best we have. He has a good understanding of the game and seems to be improving organizationally and tactically. So I'm actually pro the idea somewhat.

Personally if I was going to make the move, it would be more radical, I'd keep Williams, who despite being a long way off in some areas, has skills we desperately need and I'd move McCrone to the bench as our back up hooker/super sub. 1-Robbo 6- Dugan 7- Williams 9- Berrigan 14- McCrone. We desperately need a spine that can match it with the others. I can't see Williams/McCrone doing that, I can't see Dugan/McCrone doing that, I really think we need to milk all the talent and strengths out off all three, as well as utilizing Robbo and Berrigan to have a chance. We potentially have the skill sets we need to improve it though, I just see them residing in three players (McCrone, Dugan, Williams) not two like more traditional "halves pairings". If we are going to successfully "replace" Campo, I think we probably need to use the skill sets of all three...

Another great post stuat!
Dropping Williams would be madness considering no other option has a short kicking game, I agree we need Dugan to give us that long range option, I'd like to see Dugan doing about 60% of the long range kicking and Williams doing the remainder, Williams should also be doing as close to 100% of the short/attacking kicking as possible, McCrone only to kick when Dugan and Williams are unable to

I completely disagree, how many times has williams put the ball up on the opposition 30m line only for it to come come down on the 20m or 10m? Williams is not up to 1st grade standard and after the considerable time he has had I am not sure whether he has the heart to. One thing McCrone has is heart, for example McCrone's first season in the NRL he was rather slender, he came back the year after putting great effort in to improve himself physically and a player and thats where his improved defence and running game has come from. He may not be the 'organising' half we need but he is of great value to this team and it would be ludacris to drop him or relegate him to the bench.

Rant over.

Haha. I agree McCrone brings a lot to the side. That doesn't mean that he is capable of doing all the things we need to get out of our halves. He has some very significant gaps in his game. That doesn't mean he is useless, he is a good FG'er. Just limited in some ways. For us, missing Campo, that has important consequences (disorganization, losing the territory battle starting off the boot etc etc). That's not McCrones fault, but it's something Furner needs to fix if we are going to play half decent football as a side. A side isn't just individuals and individual efforts, it's a combination of skill sets roles that are needed and having them covered by the roster. If you lack "roles" that hurts the side.

Williams is far from a finished product, but he is showing potential in the areas we lack skills in. He isnt consistent, but he has shown he can do it. He isn't a FG'er, yet, but he has a lot of potential to cover holes we have without Campo eventually.

As for writing Williams off now. Williams is a year younger than McCrone was in 2009 when he made his debut. Your being far far to hasty. He is a kid that is only in FG because we don't have other options. He is meant to be leading Mounties and developing ****. Personally I think he has shown far more than McCrone at the same age. He may never make it, but give the kid a break!

[Brew]

Did Dugan ever play 5/8 in TYC?

Don't think so but he did some junior footy before that at 5/8.

[Stuat]

Did Dugan ever play 5/8 in TYC?

A bit but not much. Played 5/8 way back though

[Raider47]

I'd like to see Dugan at 6 for several reasons. Firstly Williams is currently well short of NRL standard and we need an alternative half. Secondly it will get Dugan's hands on the ball more often and create options for him. Thirdly Robinson is an infinitely better fullback than he is a winger.

The current make up of the side is simply ordinary and this is the kind of positional change that could provide the spark we desperately need.

Personally I don't think Williams deserves to be dropped, especially after last week where he was easily the better half...

What we lack is direction, control and and a kicking game out of the halves. It has a huge impact on the rest of the side... For 20 minutes against the rabbits Williams showed what he is capable of in that department... Our only period of ascendency in that game came on the back of a very good little patch by Williams. He controlled the game, with some great kicking (touch finder at the 5m line, grass turning the back three around caught within 10 meter line, two repeat sets and a try, all off the boot). We need that for 80 minutes though not 15-20... McCrone has shown he is hopeless at that side of the game. For all his upside, he is rubbish at controlling, turning momentum, field position, tactical kicking etc. He is a running 5/8, who gives very little organizational support to his halves partner. His weaknesses in that department were again demonstrated against the rabbits in the second half as they were last year.

However, I do think we desperately need Dugan handling the ball more often and doing more of our long kicking and kicking in general. His long kicking game is the best we have. He has a good understanding of the game and seems to be improving organizationally and tactically. So I'm actually pro the idea somewhat.

Personally if I was going to make the move, it would be more radical, I'd keep Williams, who despite being a long way off in some areas, has skills we desperately need and I'd move McCrone to the bench as our back up hooker/super sub. 1-Robbo 6- Dugan 7- Williams 9- Berrigan 14- McCrone. We desperately need a spine that can match it with the others. I can't see Williams/McCrone doing that, I can't see Dugan/McCrone doing that, I really think we need to milk all the talent and strengths out off all three, as well as utilizing Robbo and Berrigan to have a chance. We potentially have the skill sets we need to improve it though, I just see them residing in three players (McCrone, Dugan, Williams) not two like more traditional "halves pairings". If we are going to successfully "replace" Campo, I think we probably need to use the skill sets of all three...

Another great post stuat!
Dropping Williams would be madness considering no other option has a short kicking game, I agree we need Dugan to give us that long range option, I'd like to see Dugan doing about 60% of the long range kicking and Williams doing the remainder, Williams should also be doing as close to 100% of the short/attacking kicking as possible, McCrone only to kick when Dugan and Williams are unable to

I completely disagree, how many times has williams put the ball up on the opposition 30m line only for it to come come down on the 20m or 10m? Williams is not up to 1st grade standard and after the considerable time he has had I am not sure whether he has the heart to. One thing McCrone has is heart, for example McCrone's first season in the NRL he was rather slender, he came back the year after putting great effort in to improve himself physically and a player and thats where his improved defence and running game has come from. He may not be the 'organising' half we need but he is of great value to this team and it would be ludacris to drop him or relegate him to the bench.

Rant over.

Haha. I agree McCrone brings a lot to the side. That doesn't mean that he is capable of doing all the things we need to get out of our halves. He has some very significant gaps in his game. That doesn't mean he is useless, he is a good FG'er. Just limited in some ways. For us, missing Campo, that has important consequences (disorganization, losing the territory battle starting off the boot etc etc). That's not McCrones fault, but it's something Furner needs to fix if we are going to play half decent football as a side. A side isn't just individuals and individual efforts, it's a combination of skill sets roles that are needed and having them covered by the roster. If you lack "roles" that hurts the side.

Williams is far from a finished product, but he is showing potential in the areas we lack skills in. He isnt consistent, but he has shown he can do it. He isn't a FG'er, yet, but he has a lot of potential to cover holes we have without Campo eventually.

As for writing Williams off now. Williams is a year younger than McCrone was in 2009 when he made his debut. Your being far far to hasty. He is a kid that is only in FG because we don't have other options. He is meant to be leading Mounties and developing ****. Personally I think he has shown far more than McCrone at the same age. He may never make it, but give the kid a break!

I agree that perhaps one day Williams will be a solid first grade player, however he would have been dropped solely for his poor defence IMO. Him, coupled with Croker, has to be one of the most inept defensive partnerships in the NRL for the last 5 or so years. Since he has come in, we have leaked far too many points. Attack has not been his Achilles heel. We have in fact, when given the opportunity in the attacking third, racked up some good points since Campo went down. However, this has been far outweighed by the poor defence, and Williams has been targeted in this regard.

In all, Williams was dropped for his defence.

[Raider Bell]

Holy hell I am excited!!

Duges is the man and will smash this although, he seems to really benefit from the breaks at full back to catch his breath, will he have the full 80 fitness of a halve? I remember his first game back from his shoulder injury the poor fulla was red in the face haha. Didn't play last week just hope he feels comfortable in playing hands on the whole game.

I just hope I can organise with the bank to have my house value transferred to TAB with a return of $2.75 to the dollar by the weekend.

[yeh raiders]

Wouldn't be writing Campo off just yet. But I like the idea of having Duges closer to the action. A better coach would've already had him supporting through the middle more

Campo needs to be lighter and 110% fit when he returns. Obvious issues with his mobility from even before he re-did his ACL .

Waddell's selection every week is a laughable insult to every Raiders fan.

Wighton is apparently touted as a long term replacement for Campo. So i hope he gets a run at 5/8th if the Dugan experiment fails.

[Stuat]

Defense is exactly why Williams has been dropped. It's also an easily justified decision.

However, our defensive issues aren't just our poor edges. A big factor is our lack of a long kicking game and a tactical kicking game. Lacking those things puts so much pressure on us in so many of our games. The fact we are completing more sets than the opposition yet still only getting 46% possession in so many games is indicative of the problem. That should not happen so regularly. Our lack of kicking skill sets, is a major reason that happens. Williams isn't ready, he can't do it for a game, but he has shown promise in that area. Long term that is good for us

[BigDawg]

Bad decision IMO. Only weakens a position we are solid in. How is Dugan's attacking prowess going to go when he is making 20+ tackles a game. I think he will defend himself out of the game

[edwahu]

It's risky but we need to take a few chances.

[BigDawg]

Injury prone, lanky dude with bung shoulder. I love him but I think having Blair and co running at him is going to prove a mistake

[Walt Flanigan]

I don't think Robsinson weakens the fullback spot. He's been pretty good at the back.

I don't think we lose much by playing Dugan at 6.

[JohanV]

Let's do some experiments. Bold move by DF to try something new.

[DJ89]

Tigers: Tim Moltzen, Matt Utai, Beau Ryan, Chris Lawrence, Lote Tuqiri, Blake Ayshford, Benji Marshall, Aaron Woods, Robbie Farah, Keith Galloway, Adam Blair, Liam Fulton, Chris Heighington. Interchange: Curtis Sironen, Ben Murdoch-Masila, Matt Bell, Tom Humble

Sheens picks the most **** up benches in the game.

2 Props, one 5/8 and a winger.

[-GD-]

Yep im with you JohanV, we had to try something because what we were doing quite clearly wasnt working.

[Rodman]

Injury prone, lanky dude with bung shoulder. I love him but I think having Blair and co running at him is going to prove a mistake

He'll be defending close to the ruck, hopefully alongside Fensom. He won't be expected to make 30 or so one-on-one tackles.

The whole "weakening one position to strengthen another" argument only makes sense when the position you're strengthening isn't one of the playmaking positions. Something had to be done, and Robinson has been excellent at fullback.

[DJ89]

Robinson has been killing it at the back. Look at his stats from the back since his first game against the tigers.

V Tigers 18 Runs 225 meters and 1 line Break
V Cowboys 19 Runs 190 meters
V Warriors 16 Runs 126 meters, 1 line break and 2 tries
V Broncos 21 Runs 173 meters
V Rabbits 12 Runs 135 meters 1 line break and 1 try

Far less impressive from the wing. Was rather hesitant to see him take Dugan's spot but after seeing his ball to Lee the other night I think we have more spark with Dugan, McCrone, Berrigan and Robinson all doing some ball playing.

[semaj97]

I'm loving this team. I actually think were gonna beat the tigers this week. Tigers don't know what they are up against. I haven't read any comments from others, but I really hope that the ones who have said furner dosent chance his arm enough while picking the team, are getting angry about this team