Bateman confirms he’s heading back to Wigan Warriors in 2021

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Wiganer83
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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Wiganer83 »

One thing I don’t think should be forgotten in all this after listening to Ricky Stuart’s anger in his interview I saw earlier is Canberra have been getting these players from somewhere. I’ve enjoyed watching Sutton, Bateman and now Williams giving it a crack in the NRL but us over at Wigan haven’t been thrilled to keep seeing Canberra coming picking our players off. We’ve wanted to keep all of those players but their heads getting turned and it’s difficult. The league is better, the money is better and it’s a good lifestyle. You guys have taken another one of our best juniors in Harry Rushton for next year and again I’ll look forward to seeing how he goes but I’d rather he’d have stayed here.

I doubt Stuart has given much thought to Wigan’s feelings when raiding our squad, so I did find his rant earlier a bit ironic. This isn’t a case of one of your club produced players getting poached, it’s a lad with no real affiliation to Canberra wanting to either a) earn what he feels he’s worth in the NRL or b) to head back home to play so he can be close to his young daughter. I don’t think he should be slaughtered for that or people expect anything else really. Your club is probably the first one to fill it’s squad with English players (The four Burgess brothers aside) and it’s paid off nicely so far but it’s a risk. We see it over here with Australian/Kiwi players. They can be brilliant but they’re 12,000 miles away from home and it’s not easy. We very often see overseas players asking for releases due to home sickness or they look to maximise their earnings whilst over here as it’s a sacrifice being so far away from family/friends. It’s not a bad record to have 5 players from 12,000 miles away in your squad and for only one of them to maybe have a few doubts about sticking around. One other point to add would be the whole COVID situation. We’ve had it pretty bad over here and it can’t be easy for the English lads to be so far away. You’d have to think it may put a different perspective on things.

Anyways just thought I’d throw my thoughts in. One thing I know for certain is that when Bateman is back fit, he’ll throw 100% in to it because he can’t do anything else. I hope he along with the other English lads can take you one step further than last year.
Last edited by Wiganer83 on July 1, 2020, 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by amiafish »

There's a lot of talk about whether or not Bateman's behavior fell inside the strictures of his contract. I don't think that's the main issue with fans.

The issue is that the club treated him well in the transfer here, and gave him the opportunity to taste success in the NRL, and effectively upgraded his value...and in return?

In return, he gets seduced by a snake manager that whispers sweet bull**** in his ear,
he agitates for mo' money...in GF week (!),
he puts off getting his shoulder fixed so he can get rep honours,
he then agitates again for mo' money (Fifita stratosphere money) and has his agent diss a 750k offer as "getting closer",
he then gets a belated second op on his shoulder that effectively destroys his value to the club for 2020,
he then realises that the bulldust Moses was selling him was bulldust and comes begging to the club for the original money he dissed, when the club says "no thank you, Jonneh, good luck to you in your future",
he quits the club.

None of that has anything to do with contract parsing. It has everything to do with whether you're a person who balances the need to serve your club with the need to max out your bank balance. Jonneh showed it's nothing but money for him. It's not the whole package...the thrill of the game, the quest for glory and fame, the desire to build something with teammates...AND the money. No, for Jonneh, it's bugger the rest...it's JUST the money. And that's why a whole bunch of fans have given him the collective flick.

We all know people in life that are all about the money, and we know others that make the money, but also do the other things that keep their lives in balance and stop them from becoming 'fat cat' caricatures. Bateman seems to have lost the balance and gone all in at the feeding trough. It's a character issue, not a contract issue.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by raiderskater »

Damoni wrote:
July 1, 2020, 8:09 am
Great article in today’s DT (behind paywall) by Paul Kent that clears up everything

Our upgraded offer was $750k but Moses was of the view they could get $950k.

With only the Dragons and Dogs willing to get near that they came crawling back and were happy to take the $750k.

We then pulled the offer
Serves him right, too. I'm enjoying the fact we don't let ourselves get held to ransom anymore. We did the same with Austin to our benefit.

For now, while pissed about it, I'm holding back slightly until we know where he's going. If he's going home to England for his daughter, I'll still be pissed but it'll at least be understandable.

If he goes to another NRL club, he's thrown straight in the Dugan basket.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by pacman »

Personally hope he does not play another game in green. Can sit in reserves for all I care.

To not be able to play another year and see through your agreed contract that already had you on good money is pretty ridiculous. He wants more money? Then don't sign long term deals if you think you are continuously going to play in good form. Canberra would not have paid that transfer fee for a 1 or 2 year deal.

There are a lot of problems with the team at the moment but forward depth is at the bottom of the list.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Mickey_Raider »

raiderskater wrote:
July 1, 2020, 9:54 am
Damoni wrote:
July 1, 2020, 8:09 am
Great article in today’s DT (behind paywall) by Paul Kent that clears up everything

Our upgraded offer was $750k but Moses was of the view they could get $950k.

With only the Dragons and Dogs willing to get near that they came crawling back and were happy to take the $750k.

We then pulled the offer
Serves him right, too. I'm enjoying the fact we don't let ourselves get held to ransom anymore. We did the same with Austin to our benefit.

For now, while pissed about it, I'm holding back slightly until we know where he's going. If he's going home to England for his daughter, I'll still be pissed but it'll at least be understandable.

If he goes to another NRL club, he's thrown straight in the Dugan basket.
Good grief.

So in summary:

1. We offered him 750k; and
2. The biggest offer on the table now is 670k a season from the Dogs

This could be a classic case of "every party loses" because of his JB's naivete and his managers garbage commercial acumen.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by edwahu »

Yep. He has now lost money by refusing to just honour his contract.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by RichmondRaider »

Chicka Chicka Chicka wrote:
June 30, 2020, 6:06 pm
I guess this means Don is going for a drive then. I hope John forks out for the fuel.....
He will insist on E10

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Mickey_Raider »

So now I revise my opinion to this:

Not only will JB end up regretting this whole ordeal for football and career reasons, we also now know he will regret it in monetary terms too.

Hopefully this acts as a cautionary tale for anyone else trying to hold a club with a strong culture to ransom.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by afgtnk »

He's not worth $750k coming off two shoulder surgeries. No chance.

As for Sticky not blaming him - I can bet you bottom dollar that behind closed doors Sticky apportion blame to him. The babe in the woods routine isn't going to fly here. Bateman knew what he was getting into and if he didn't, the control was with him to stop it. He's now **** himself out of good guaranteed money, witnessed his agent banned and had his own name dragged through the mud, and had the majority of a fanbase turn against him.

Good one Jonneh.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by T_R »

Wiganer83 wrote:
July 1, 2020, 8:52 am
One thing I don’t think should be forgotten in all this after listening to Ricky Stuart’s anger in his interview I saw earlier is Canberra have been getting these players from somewhere. I’ve enjoyed watching Sutton, Bateman and now Williams giving it a crack in the NRL but us over at Wigan haven’t been thrilled to keep seeing Canberra coming picking our players off. We’ve wanted to keep all of those players but their heads getting turned and it’s difficult. The league is better, the money is better and it’s a good lifestyle. You guys have taken another one of our best juniors in Harry Rushton for next year and again I’ll look forward to seeing how he goes but I’d rather he’d have stayed here. ....
Very reasonable post, and well put.

Welcome to the GH, by the way!
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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by T_R »

edwahu wrote:
July 1, 2020, 8:32 am
Butters wrote:
July 1, 2020, 8:23 am
Damoni wrote:Great article in today’s DT (behind paywall) by Paul Kent that clears up everything

Our upgraded offer was $750k but Moses was of the view they could get $950k.

With only the Dragons and Dogs willing to get near that they came crawling back and were happy to take the $750k.

We then pulled the offer
Hmmm Bateman is worth $750k IMO

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Maybe, but they may have committed the money in the meantime. Plus with his injuries it would be a gamble.
Or, they began to ask themselves 'is this the kind of guy we want to invest so heavily in?'.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Botman »

T_R wrote:
July 1, 2020, 10:32 am
Wiganer83 wrote:
July 1, 2020, 8:52 am
One thing I don’t think should be forgotten in all this after listening to Ricky Stuart’s anger in his interview I saw earlier is Canberra have been getting these players from somewhere. I’ve enjoyed watching Sutton, Bateman and now Williams giving it a crack in the NRL but us over at Wigan haven’t been thrilled to keep seeing Canberra coming picking our players off. We’ve wanted to keep all of those players but their heads getting turned and it’s difficult. The league is better, the money is better and it’s a good lifestyle. You guys have taken another one of our best juniors in Harry Rushton for next year and again I’ll look forward to seeing how he goes but I’d rather he’d have stayed here. ....
Very reasonable post, and well put.

Welcome to the GH, by the way!
Agreed. Its a point well made and missed by many here.
We're perfectly happy to raid Wigan and entice players like JB and GW to break contracts to come here, and we're happy to do the same with players like Tapine and Curtis Scott who were both released early... we're good with that... but when the player does it? It's a stain on their character.

Spare me those theatrics. This is a business and the clubs play the game just as much as the players.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
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GO;

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Canberra Milk »

Butters wrote:
July 1, 2020, 8:23 am
Damoni wrote:Great article in today’s DT (behind paywall) by Paul Kent that clears up everything

Our upgraded offer was $750k but Moses was of the view they could get $950k.

With only the Dragons and Dogs willing to get near that they came crawling back and were happy to take the $750k.

We then pulled the offer
Hmmm Bateman is worth $750k IMO

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
He certainly is. If we've spent that money on say Curtis Scott and that's the reason we can't afford 750k anymore, then I can only consider that a poor decision

I mean I get it, we can't sit around forever waiting for them, so it's difficult in real time. But it's still one that's turned out poorly

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by RichmondRaider »

T_R wrote:
July 1, 2020, 10:35 am
edwahu wrote:
July 1, 2020, 8:32 am
Butters wrote:
July 1, 2020, 8:23 am
Damoni wrote:Great article in today’s DT (behind paywall) by Paul Kent that clears up everything

Our upgraded offer was $750k but Moses was of the view they could get $950k.

With only the Dragons and Dogs willing to get near that they came crawling back and were happy to take the $750k.

We then pulled the offer
Hmmm Bateman is worth $750k IMO

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Maybe, but they may have committed the money in the meantime. Plus with his injuries it would be a gamble.
Or, they began to ask themselves 'is this the kind of guy we want to invest so heavily in?'.
If this is true imagine how Jonneh is feeling now. He could have taken 750 and been a hero with an injury right now, all of us willing him back on the field.

Now he will have to take less to run around with L Lewis. No more car yard ads and key to the city.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Northern Raider »

Botman wrote:
July 1, 2020, 10:39 am
T_R wrote:
July 1, 2020, 10:32 am
Wiganer83 wrote:
July 1, 2020, 8:52 am
One thing I don’t think should be forgotten in all this after listening to Ricky Stuart’s anger in his interview I saw earlier is Canberra have been getting these players from somewhere. I’ve enjoyed watching Sutton, Bateman and now Williams giving it a crack in the NRL but us over at Wigan haven’t been thrilled to keep seeing Canberra coming picking our players off. We’ve wanted to keep all of those players but their heads getting turned and it’s difficult. The league is better, the money is better and it’s a good lifestyle. You guys have taken another one of our best juniors in Harry Rushton for next year and again I’ll look forward to seeing how he goes but I’d rather he’d have stayed here. ....
Very reasonable post, and well put.

Welcome to the GH, by the way!
Agreed. Its a point well made and missed by many here.
We're perfectly happy to raid Wigan and entice players like JB and GW to break contracts to come here, and we're happy to do the same with players like Tapine and Curtis Scott who were both released early... we're good with that... but when the player does it? It's a stain on their character.

Spare me those theatrics. This is a business and the clubs play the game just as much as the players.
Fair to say we've had a lot more success raiding Wigan's stocks than the Dragons had raiding ours. :lol:
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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Canberra Milk »

Botman wrote:
July 1, 2020, 10:39 am
T_R wrote:
July 1, 2020, 10:32 am
Wiganer83 wrote:
July 1, 2020, 8:52 am
One thing I don’t think should be forgotten in all this after listening to Ricky Stuart’s anger in his interview I saw earlier is Canberra have been getting these players from somewhere. I’ve enjoyed watching Sutton, Bateman and now Williams giving it a crack in the NRL but us over at Wigan haven’t been thrilled to keep seeing Canberra coming picking our players off. We’ve wanted to keep all of those players but their heads getting turned and it’s difficult. The league is better, the money is better and it’s a good lifestyle. You guys have taken another one of our best juniors in Harry Rushton for next year and again I’ll look forward to seeing how he goes but I’d rather he’d have stayed here. ....
Very reasonable post, and well put.

Welcome to the GH, by the way!
Agreed. Its a point well made and missed by many here.
We're perfectly happy to raid Wigan and entice players like JB and GW to break contracts to come here, and we're happy to do the same with players like Tapine and Curtis Scott who were both released early... we're good with that... but when the player does it? It's a stain on their character.

Spare me those theatrics. This is a business and the clubs play the game just as much as the players.
I think it's a fine line and case by case, even with clubs. Curtis Scott was clearly on the outer at Storm, so there's mutual benefit there. Not sure about Tapine.

As for Wigan, the NRL is a step up from super league I'm sorry. I take the point but it would be hard to begrudge a player wanting to go to the NRL. That's different to moving within NRL for $50-100k more.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Botman wrote:
July 1, 2020, 10:39 am
T_R wrote:
July 1, 2020, 10:32 am
Wiganer83 wrote:
July 1, 2020, 8:52 am
One thing I don’t think should be forgotten in all this after listening to Ricky Stuart’s anger in his interview I saw earlier is Canberra have been getting these players from somewhere. I’ve enjoyed watching Sutton, Bateman and now Williams giving it a crack in the NRL but us over at Wigan haven’t been thrilled to keep seeing Canberra coming picking our players off. We’ve wanted to keep all of those players but their heads getting turned and it’s difficult. The league is better, the money is better and it’s a good lifestyle. You guys have taken another one of our best juniors in Harry Rushton for next year and again I’ll look forward to seeing how he goes but I’d rather he’d have stayed here. ....
Very reasonable post, and well put.

Welcome to the GH, by the way!
Agreed. Its a point well made and missed by many here.
We're perfectly happy to raid Wigan and entice players like JB and GW to break contracts to come here, and we're happy to do the same with players like Tapine and Curtis Scott who were both released early... we're good with that... but when the player does it? It's a stain on their character.

Spare me those theatrics. This is a business and the clubs play the game just as much as the players.
Why are you such an apologist? I agree with you up to a point but you speak in such absolutes.

I have to negotiate contracts on a daily basis - and I can tell you that if all stakeholders played a zero-sum game (as it appears the commercially astute Isaac Moses and his willing client have done), then literally no deal would ever be executed, ever.

A zero sum, shortsighted game has been played here to the detriment of the club (and now we know to JB too), and even if it had paid off, the rewards would arguably not have been big enough to justify the means.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Raider47 »

Good one Mr Moses.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Botman »

Mickey_Raider wrote:
July 1, 2020, 10:53 am
Why are you such an apologist? I agree with you up to a point but you speak in such absolutes.
I dont think im being an apologist. I think im looking at both sides of this and understand this isnt all one way traffic, the clubs attempt to entice players to break contracts all the time. We do it, we did it to get John Bateman here in the first place.

We're ok with enticing Bateman to break his contract and come to our club for more money.
We're not ok with Bateman agitating to break our contract to leave our club for more money.

I dont think it's being an apologist to point out that hypocrisy.
If you think John Bateman breaking our contract early for more money is a sign of poor character, IMO if you want to be consistent, you'd have to feel our club enticing players like Bateman to break contracts at other clubs is a sign of poor character.

For me? I dont think it's a sign of anything other than this is how business in RL is now done, now i dont really like that is this way, but is what it is. John Bateman played the game and due to mishandling by his representation, lost. Our club plays that game too though.

Re: your comments on how Moses handled this negotiation, no arguments here. He made a terrible assessment on JB's market, was only interested in his own outcomes and getting a contract done with his name on it, the market never materialised the way he expected it, but he burnt bridges and he's cost his client in money and for some people, reputation. That's a miserable job all around from Moses.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
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GO;

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Botman wrote:
July 1, 2020, 11:03 am
Mickey_Raider wrote:
July 1, 2020, 10:53 am
Why are you such an apologist? I agree with you up to a point but you speak in such absolutes.
I dont think im being an apologist. I think im looking at both sides of this and understand this isnt all one way traffic, the clubs attempt to entice players to break contracts all the time. We do it, we did it to get John Bateman here in the first place.

We're ok with enticing Bateman to break his contract and come to our club for more money.
We're not ok with Bateman agitating to break our contract to leave our club for more money.

I dont think it's being an apologist to point out that hypocrisy.
If you think John Bateman breaking our contract early for more money is a sign of poor character, IMO if you want to be consistent, you'd have to feel our club enticing players like Bateman to break contracts at other clubs is a sign of poor character.

For me? I dont think it's a sign of anything other than this is how business in RL is now done, now i dont really like that is this way, but is what it is. John Bateman played the game and due to mishandling by his representation, lost. Our club plays that game too though.

Re: your comments on how Moses handled this negotiation, no arguments here. He made a terrible assessment on JB's market, was only interested in his own outcomes and getting a contract done with his name on it, the market never materialised the way he expected it, but he burnt bridges and he's cost his client in money and for some people, reputation. That's a miserable job all around from Moses.
A few issues with the above:

1. At least Wigan got a pretty hefty compensation out of the deal

2. SL > NRL is a whole new ball game. It is about the career opportunity more so than the money. Kind of comparable to, say, if a European football player in a second division is offered a deal to play for a Champions League calibre side, fans of the second division side, in their heart of hearts would concede that it is a career move they can't compete with, and I'm sure most wouldn't hold it against them personally.

The second point I think is related to the way most Raiders fans wouldn't begrudge JB going home for personal reasons.

However, going to the Dogs for what, 5-10% more max? That is in the sort of margin where, especially at 750-800k, the difference is actually quite negligible, particularly after tax. And the kind of margin where character probably does come in for questioning.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by amiafish »

This situation has shades of the Prisoner's Dilemma (with a bit of free rider paradox thrown in). Players and clubs are players in a games that requires them to both compete and cooperate. If the balance swings too far in favor of either pole (competition vs cooperation) then optimal outcomes for both parties are impossible.

Mickey_Raider hits the nail on the head when he argues that Bateman's zero-sum gaming is the issue here. If all players and all clubs played zero-sum games, the negotiation system would instantly explode. Clubs would rip up contracts after a player played a bad game or pulled a hamstring, and players would switch clubs as soon as they got representative honors or won a couple of MOTM awards. It would be chaos.

The only thing preventing this from occurring is that (1) there remains a certain degree of contract law inertia to overcome if players/clubs want to alter their plans and (2) some players and clubs still take a broader view that includes considerations of player wellbeing, squad continuity, and service to fans (in addition to pure money-ball).

If we lose that balance, which we would if all players behaved like John Bateman, the NRL would not be the tribal sport that it still remains today...and there'd be next to no one on this forum. What would be the point?

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by julian87 »

Butters wrote:
July 1, 2020, 8:23 am
Damoni wrote:Great article in today’s DT (behind paywall) by Paul Kent that clears up everything

Our upgraded offer was $750k but Moses was of the view they could get $950k.

With only the Dragons and Dogs willing to get near that they came crawling back and were happy to take the $750k.

We then pulled the offer
Hmmm Bateman is worth $750k IMO

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I agree. But to be able to afford it the club probably needed to save more money when they let Leilua walk IMO. That's a very simple way of looking at something that involves scores of moving pieces but it's my take anyway. I think most NRL clubs would have banked on a Smith-Shields if they had them and then supported him and his growth with a cheaper option b. Zac Lomax, Bradman Best, Esan Marsters, Jesse Ramien, Kotoni Staggs, Bronson Xerri (RIP) and Moses Suli have sort of shown in recent years that centre is porbably a good soft start for a current career at 18-20.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Botman »

Firstly i would guess that he wouldnt be moving to the dogs for 5-10% more if our offer was still on the table. It's not as if he willing taking this 675k or whatever marginal offer it is over the Raiders offer, he doesnt have an offer from us. At the time his management burn bridges, they didnt know or were unwilling to accept that this was his market, if they for one second thought it would have been the case, they'd have jumped at the 750k offer.
They misevaluated the market and by the time the dogs offer comes into play, there is no canberra offer on the table to weigh it against.
So for me, i dont know why i would question his character for leaving for the Bulldogs under that timeline... i question the handling of this by his representation, and clearly he's been taken for a very bad ride by a manager who from reports from anyone who has dealt with him, seems to think has serious character flaws.

If Wigan got compensation for him breaking the contract and we don't, that's not really a JB problem, that a Canberra Raiders problem, we should be insisting on not releasing JB until we have some compensation back for the transfer fee we paid. But that's a matter for our club to take up, not JB.

And yes SL > NRL is a major step up in career opportunity, but tell that Wigan and their fans. They're just being pillaged by us and there is nothing they can do about it. Tell that to Knights fans when we grabbed Tapine, but they cant really talk since they're engaged in attempting to do the very same with Tyson Frizzell right now, as the Bunnies are with Jai Arrow.

My point is the clubs are far from clean on this stuff. And like it or not, this is just kind of how the business of NRL is done now.
And i dont think its fair or consistent to cast doubts about a players character for operating in this environment and never question the clubs character. They're both doing it.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Timbo »

So, to sum up;

-He’s shot his reputation with the fan base.
-His antics have cost him $80k per year.
-He will have to play for the rabble that is Canterbury to even get that money.

Good one Jonneh, good one.

Great footballer - but I’ll remember him the same way I remember Dugan and Ferguson.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by greeneyed »

Canberra Raiders lose six-figure transfer fee in Bateman exit
The Mole

John Bateman's decision to quit Canberra yesterday threatens to derail the Raiders' season. The Raiders are fuming at the move by his manager, the controversial Isaac Moses. Few people realise that only last year, the Raiders paid Bateman's English club Wigan a six-figure transfer fee to bring the Brit to the NRL.

Read more: https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/the-mole-n ... eXArjoZWpA

John Bateman won't play for Raiders again, Mark Geyer says: https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/nrl-news-j ... 5fe37858fb
Image

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Hazza »

TongueFTW wrote:
July 1, 2020, 7:46 am
Firstly, to those trying to act like this isn’t a big deal. Bateman leaving is a huge hole in our squad. We hadn’t seen consistent application (particularly in defence) across an entire season until he came to the squad last year. As I have said a number of times in other threads - we were 0-4 without him last year. He made 100+ metres in most games, as well as being one of the top tacklers. Other than Papa, we don’t have any forward with that sort of consistent, game to game, metres made. The guy was a huge part of what we did in our most enjoyable season since 1994. Let’s not start pretending he is easy to replace, or that he wasn’t a key contributor.

I feel like some of the commentary is unfair on Bateman. Usually I agree that a contract should be abided by, which is why I often think it is in the clubs best interest, in most cases, to try and keep the terms of contracts to 2 years maximum. However, in this case - Bateman has a yearly renegotiation clause in his contract. He is doing nothing wrong according to the terms of the agreement signed - he just couldn’t come to an agreement with the club. The club was silly for putting that clause in the contract - it essentially meant that the club bore all of the risk, and Bateman had all the upside. This is not about the “sanctity or contracts”. In saying that, there is no doubt Moses got in his ear and exaggerated his value - the likely outcome of this is he will agree to a deal somewhere else for less money than he knocked back from us last year.

It is disappointing as a fan, as he is such a joy to watch, but also completely understandable for him to want to do what is best for him and his family, under the terms of the agreement which he signed.
I didn't mean it isn't a big deal as it we won't miss him. He's a huge loss. Anyone that doesn't think any side would miss a player of John's calibre is kidding themselves. I still think we can be a very good consistent team without him though....

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by BadnMean »

Wiganer83 wrote:
July 1, 2020, 8:52 am
One thing I don’t think should be forgotten in all this after listening to Ricky Stuart’s anger in his interview I saw earlier is Canberra have been getting these players from somewhere. I’ve enjoyed watching Sutton, Bateman and now Williams giving it a crack in the NRL but us over at Wigan haven’t been thrilled to keep seeing Canberra coming picking our players off. We’ve wanted to keep all of those players but their heads getting turned and it’s difficult. The league is better, the money is better and it’s a good lifestyle. You guys have taken another one of our best juniors in Harry Rushton for next year and again I’ll look forward to seeing how he goes but I’d rather he’d have stayed here.

I doubt Stuart has given much thought to Wigan’s feelings when raiding our squad, so I did find his rant earlier a bit ironic. This isn’t a case of one of your club produced players getting poached, it’s a lad with no real affiliation to Canberra wanting to either a) earn what he feels he’s worth in the NRL or b) to head back home to play so he can be close to his young daughter. I don’t think he should be slaughtered for that or people expect anything else really. Your club is probably the first one to fill it’s squad with English players (The four Burgess brothers aside) and it’s paid off nicely so far but it’s a risk. We see it over here with Australian/Kiwi players. They can be brilliant but they’re 12,000 miles away from home and it’s not easy. We very often see overseas players asking for releases due to home sickness or they look to maximise their earnings whilst over here as it’s a sacrifice being so far away from family/friends. It’s not a bad record to have 5 players from 12,000 miles away in your squad and for only one of them to maybe have a few doubts about sticking around. One other point to add would be the whole COVID situation. We’ve had it pretty bad over here and it can’t be easy for the English lads to be so far away. You’d have to think it may put a different perspective on things.

Anyways just thought I’d throw my thoughts in. One thing I know for certain is that when Bateman is back fit, he’ll throw 100% in to it because he can’t do anything else. I hope he along with the other English lads can take you one step further than last year.
Yeah, good to hear another perspective on the issue. Much of RIcky's anger stems from previous club dealings with the player manager Moses (now in the process of being banned) - he's a real piece of work.

Welcome aboard and hope you stay Green.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Botman wrote:
July 1, 2020, 11:41 am
Firstly i would guess that he wouldnt be moving to the dogs for 5-10% more if our offer was still on the table. It's not as if he willing taking this 675k or whatever marginal offer it is over the Raiders offer, he doesnt have an offer from us. At the time his management burn bridges, they didnt know or were unwilling to accept that this was his market, if they for one second thought it would have been the case, they'd have jumped at the 750k offer.
They misevaluated the market and by the time the dogs offer comes into play, there is no canberra offer on the table to weigh it against.
So for me, i dont know why i would question his character for leaving for the Bulldogs under that timeline... i question the handling of this by his representation, and clearly he's been taken for a very bad ride by a manager who from reports from anyone who has dealt with him, seems to think has serious character flaws.

If Wigan got compensation for him breaking the contract and we don't, that's not really a JB problem, that a Canberra Raiders problem, we should be insisting on not releasing JB until we have some compensation back for the transfer fee we paid. But that's a matter for our club to take up, not JB.

And yes SL > NRL is a major step up in career opportunity, but tell that Wigan and their fans. They're just being pillaged by us and there is nothing they can do about it. Tell that to Knights fans when we grabbed Tapine, but they cant really talk since they're engaged in attempting to do the very same with Tyson Frizzell right now, as the Bunnies are with Jai Arrow.

My point is the clubs are far from clean on this stuff. And like it or not, this is just kind of how the business of NRL is done now.
And i dont think its fair or consistent to cast doubts about a players character for operating in this environment and never question the clubs character. They're both doing it.
Are you missing the part whereby that was exactly what was about to transpire should the Dogs have come to the party on 5-10% more than our 750k offer? We offered 750k, and he said "you're getting closer"...and went off in search of 800k or more.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by bonehead »

Wiganer83 wrote:One thing I don’t think should be forgotten in all this after listening to Ricky Stuart’s anger in his interview I saw earlier is Canberra have been getting these players from somewhere. I’ve enjoyed watching Sutton, Bateman and now Williams giving it a crack in the NRL but us over at Wigan haven’t been thrilled to keep seeing Canberra coming picking our players off. We’ve wanted to keep all of those players but their heads getting turned and it’s difficult. The league is better, the money is better and it’s a good lifestyle. You guys have taken another one of our best juniors in Harry Rushton for next year and again I’ll look forward to seeing how he goes but I’d rather he’d have stayed here.

I doubt Stuart has given much thought to Wigan’s feelings when raiding our squad, so I did find his rant earlier a bit ironic. This isn’t a case of one of your club produced players getting poached, it’s a lad with no real affiliation to Canberra wanting to either a) earn what he feels he’s worth in the NRL or b) to head back home to play so he can be close to his young daughter. I don’t think he should be slaughtered for that or people expect anything else really. Your club is probably the first one to fill it’s squad with English players (The four Burgess brothers aside) and it’s paid off nicely so far but it’s a risk. We see it over here with Australian/Kiwi players. They can be brilliant but they’re 12,000 miles away from home and it’s not easy. We very often see overseas players asking for releases due to home sickness or they look to maximise their earnings whilst over here as it’s a sacrifice being so far away from family/friends. It’s not a bad record to have 5 players from 12,000 miles away in your squad and for only one of them to maybe have a few doubts about sticking around. One other point to add would be the whole COVID situation. We’ve had it pretty bad over here and it can’t be easy for the English lads to be so far away. You’d have to think it may put a different perspective on things.

Anyways just thought I’d throw my thoughts in. One thing I know for certain is that when Bateman is back fit, he’ll throw 100% in to it because he can’t do anything else. I hope he along with the other English lads can take you one step further than last year.
all good if he wants to go home, absolutely.
If it's an early release for another nrl club after knocking back a very decent deal and his manager has done him a lot of dis-service then jog on and prepare to get booed.
I'm not a fan of enticing players to break contract, look at TPJ and Liam Knight where Bennett has got directly in their ear. It's the same for Wigan unless they've copped a contract clause that says if an nrl opportunity comes up.
I'd be interested to see us loan some guys to Wigan for this season with no lower grades playing and try to build the relationship

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Botman »

Mickey_Raider wrote:
July 1, 2020, 12:44 pm
Are you missing the part whereby that was exactly what was about to transpire should the Dogs have come to the party on 5-10% more than our 750k offer? We offered 750k, and he said "you're getting closer"...and went off in search of 800k or more.
That was never going to transpire because its now evidently clear the dogs don't even want to match that offer, least of all beat it.

You can guess what might have happened if the Dogs decided to offer 5-10% more but that's all it would, a guess. In the hypothetical you've laid out I would hope if the difference was marginal, he'd stay but maybe he would have left? I dont know.
His position was, he and his representation felt clubs were going to offer substantially more than we were willing to offer, not marginally, so the course of action taken and the bridges burnt were done so with that mind frame.

And given the way this actually played out, in that by the time the offer did come down from Canterbury, we'd already pulled our offer. So i dont feel like i can say what he'd have done if the Dogs came to the party with our offer firm, and came in with 5-10% more.

And i dont think what he's doing now is instructive to that hypothetical, because the situations are wildly different imo.
What i do know is he's not making a decision to take a marginal offer over our offer, because we had pulled our offer long before he got the dogs offer.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Seiffert82 »

Butters wrote:
July 1, 2020, 8:23 am
Damoni wrote:Great article in today’s DT (behind paywall) by Paul Kent that clears up everything

Our upgraded offer was $750k but Moses was of the view they could get $950k.

With only the Dragons and Dogs willing to get near that they came crawling back and were happy to take the $750k.

We then pulled the offer
Hmmm Bateman is worth $750k IMO

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Well, that's what he was offered and he chose not to take it.

Now he's injured and the surgery plan was completed botched. Ricky and Don rightfully cracked the **** and the offer was pulled.

Fair enough too. Don't negotiate with terrorists. Our club will benefit in the long run.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Seiffert82 »

Just lends weight to my assumption that Stuart will be hugely pissed off at Bateman for attempting this stunt.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Perth Raiders »

It’s shown this year what a massive loss this is. But before we throw him under the bus completely, let’s see where he ends up.

At the moment the only talk of Bulldogs/Dragons is the always truth telling DT.

If he returns home to Wigan, which seems more likely, then I can’t blame him for picking family while still getting as much $ as he can!!
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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Ilanraiders »

afgtnk wrote:
July 1, 2020, 10:28 am
He's not worth $750k coming off two shoulder surgeries. No chance.

As for Sticky not blaming him - I can bet you bottom dollar that behind closed doors Sticky apportion blame to him. The babe in the woods routine isn't going to fly here. Bateman knew what he was getting into and if he didn't, the control was with him to stop it. He's now **** himself out of good guaranteed money, witnessed his agent banned and had his own name dragged through the mud, and had the majority of a fanbase turn against him.

Good one Jonneh.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Bateman 'won't be at Raiders in 2021'

Post by Azza »

No criticism of the club here IMO. They have handled it as well as they could.

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