Ricky Stuart appears resigned to losing John Bateman

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GMGT
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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by GMGT »

How good is the timing of this, grand final week last time... this time it's a week before we get the season back underway. I have a feeling this manager fella is certainly not a raiders fan.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Love4Noa »

Raider Azz wrote:
May 23, 2020, 6:32 pm
edwahu wrote:We do have most of the core of the side locked up beyond 2021. It's mainly fringe players or expected retirements off contract before then.
We still haven't locked in Cotric past this season which will be another tough one to hold on to. Our premiership window is rapidly closing.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Damoni »

Botman wrote:And if the Dogs or Dragons are after a star forward, fine... lets talk turkey about Tarps.
Outside of the spine, and MAYBE Papalii, JB is the most important player in this team
Agree with this around the importance of JB he really is the heart and soul of the team.

As for Tapine he’s always suspended, injured or about to hit his straps

He lost me after the GF that was a rookie mistake to turn your back

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Damoni wrote:
May 24, 2020, 4:12 am
Botman wrote:And if the Dogs or Dragons are after a star forward, fine... lets talk turkey about Tarps.
Outside of the spine, and MAYBE Papalii, JB is the most important player in this team
Agree with this around the importance of JB he really is the heart and soul of the team.

As for Tapine he’s always suspended, injured or about to hit his straps

He lost me after the GF that was a rookie mistake to turn your back
Yup Tapine is getting to that age where the annual "next year he'll be a beast" prediction isn't looking like coming true. He's still a slightly above average first grader though, hopefully we would move him on to help retain Bateman if it came to it.

Bateman is actually only 6 months older than Tapine.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Botman »

gergreg wrote:
May 23, 2020, 10:05 pm
Botman wrote:And if the Dogs or Dragons are after a star forward, fine... lets talk turkey about Tarps.
Outside of the spine, and MAYBE Papalii, JB is the most important player in this team
Surely accidental, but you forgot BYC Image

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Na he’s a really good player for us and a very strong leader and presence but my point on Cotric earlier is outside backs can be found relatively easy
The squad would cope better with a long term Croker injury than a Bateman one imo

Croker goes down and we have Cotric at centre and oldy on the wing, or HSS straight in if he’s ready... is that as good? No but it’s serviceable

Papalii and Bateman are the only non spine players where I think we don’t really have cover to give us the 60-70% replacement level for what they provide us in the event of an injury
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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Peter »

Imagine the Dragons giving Ben Hunt permission to negotiate with other clubs, one year into his $1.1m per year mega deal. The guy was hardly value for money in his first year, his value plummeted.

He gets offers from the Bulldogs for $600k, Gold Coast for $750k.

Goes back to the CEO and says this is what I’m worth on the open market now.

Can the Dragons now renegotiate a more suitable deal on their end? Or is this a one way street now where players and their grub managers hold the clubs to ransom?

I understand JB has a renegotiation clause in his contract and all that, but the timing is horrible and these tactics are very questionable.

When you have a Josh Hodgson in your team, a Jack Wighton, Josh Papalii. They are 3 of the highest paid players in the game in their respective positions. You just can not justify paying a second rower close to any of those players.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by -PJ- »

The dissapointing thing about this JohnBoy contract saga is that we tabled an offer and he accepted. I'm sure there was talks between club and player about pay rises and whatever when the club spoke to JohnBoy.

He agreed to terms..

Then he's new manager jumps in to grab his piece of the pie..and it stinks.

I have to trust the relationship/deal between JohnBoy and Don. Only they know what's going on here.
It's pretty clear JohnBoy is on the most wanted list, he's a current international ****.

I'm just Jack of this Moses wipe..

JohnBoy is 1yr into a 3yr agreement..and agreement with his JonHancock on the bottom.
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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by greeneyed »

Botman wrote:
May 24, 2020, 7:43 am
gergreg wrote:
May 23, 2020, 10:05 pm
Botman wrote:And if the Dogs or Dragons are after a star forward, fine... lets talk turkey about Tarps.
Outside of the spine, and MAYBE Papalii, JB is the most important player in this team
Surely accidental, but you forgot BYC Image

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Na he’s a really good player for us and a very strong leader and presence but my point on Cotric earlier is outside backs can be found relatively easy
The squad would cope better with a long term Croker injury than a Bateman one imo

Croker goes down and we have Cotric at centre and oldy on the wing, or HSS straight in if he’s ready... is that as good? No but it’s serviceable

Papalii and Bateman are the only non spine players where I think we don’t really have cover to give us the 60-70% replacement level for what they provide us in the event of an injury
I suspect Harley Smith Shields would be every bit as good.
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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Coastalraider »

The part that is being missed in all this is, given We had to pay a chunk of cash to Wigan to release him, he got a ‘decent’ wage last year with no NRL experience, he had renegotiation clauses I served annually into his contract etc, id say his original manager did a bloody good job of things.

The only reason I can see for changing from that scenario is the Moses school of grubbery.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Wiki Special »

This is really disappointing. I understand his desire to make every $ he can from his career but if we have offered to re-negotiate and extend with him declining he must not really want to be at our club. Which really hurts.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Dr Zaius »

I'm with the Pig on this. I love Cotric. Love him to death. Local boy, nice kid, fantastic player. But the mongrel Bateman bought to the squad last year was one of the biggest factors in our turn around. Keeping him is a priority.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Azza »

Bateman's gone imo

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by greeneyed »

‘There’s something else going on here’: Brandy ‘stunned’ by Bateman’s contract hesitation

In another twist to the John Bateman contract saga, The Daily Telegraph’s Phil Rothfield has revealed Bateman and his manager Isaac Moses knocked back a contract upgrade and extension from the Raiders, which las left Greg Alexander ‘stunned.’

Rothfield says the Raiders are keen to upgrade him, so long as he agrees to a contract extension as well, to which Moses has reportedly rejected, suggesting Bateman will seriously consider joining a new club.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... ee968e80a8

VIDEO: Buzz breaks down Bateman saga: https://www.foxsports.com.au/video/leag ... aga!774639
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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by robtheraider »

SBW / Folau.

All about the $.

Unsure that is really beneficial to the "culture" that he is supposedly all about.
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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by gergreg »

Dr Zaius wrote:I'm with the Pig on this. I love Cotric. Love him to death. Local boy, nice kid, fantastic player. But the mongrel Bateman bought to the squad last year was one of the biggest factors in our turn around. Keeping him is a priority.

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Yep. I remember when we had that great group of young blokes coming through, just won the NYC and I remember saying we needed an enforcer to protect the young guys a bit. Bateman is that guy.

He isn't intimidated by a single player in the game. He would get down and dirty against anyone. If a player on debut is getting roughed up, he is the bloke that will come in and protect him.
I remember that first game last year where he pretended to throw the ball at that Titans players face - was it Ryan James - and the Titans player flinched and Bateman just laughed in his face.

I've loved him from that moment.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by RedRaider »

There is something not clear with comments that there would be no possible contract increases in 2022.

According to the contracts thread there are 6 players off contract at end 2020 and 8 off contract at end 2021. Of the 14 players we would want to keep 7-9 including Bateman. The balance would be for young players looking for opportunity on less than median contracts. There should be some room unless there are escalation clauses which preclude it for the senior players deemed vital. I would think there were no more than 10 of those of which Bateman is one.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by greeneyed »

RedRaider wrote:
May 24, 2020, 2:35 pm
There is something not clear with comments that there would be no possible contract increases in 2022.

According to the contracts thread there are 6 players off contract at end 2020 and 8 off contract at end 2021. Of the 14 players we would want to keep 7-9 including Bateman. The balance would be for young players looking for opportunity on less than median contracts. There should be some room unless there are escalation clauses which preclude it for the senior players deemed vital. I would think there were no more than 10 of those of which Bateman is one.
I’ve little doubt the Raiders have room in the cap for an offer in 2022. It might not be what the player/manager would like to see though.
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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by greeneyed »

James Hooper maintains John Bateman’s manager agitated for Canberra Raiders release

James Hooper has stood by his story that suggested John Bateman’s managent has been agitating for a release from the Raiders since the 2019 Grand Final week.

“The Bulldogs and the Dragons are the two teams that are having a strong look at John and would love to get him there for next season,” Hooper said.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 0c70f19847

AUDIO: ‪James Hooper responds to John Bateman's Twitter posts: https://omny.fm/shows/triple-m-rocks-fo ... itter-pos‬

‪AUDIO: Canberra Raiders co-captain Josh Hodgson speaks as the team prepares for the Round 3 clash with the Melbourne Storm... and the Bateman situation: https://omny.fm/shows/triple-m-rocks-fo ... son-opens‬

‪#NRL #WeAreRaiders #wearecbr ‬
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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by hobbsy »

I have to say one part of all of this I find extremely disappointing is the attitude and comments of some fans towards John Bateman as part of this. This is a bloke who has left his family including a young daughter who he is clearly extremely close with (obviously, who wouldn't be with their own kids?) To come play for us. He's a fantastic player and a great bloke and it's easy to get attached to those guys but at the end of the day as if Bradford or Wigan didn't feel the same when he left them. Of course he wants to get the most out of his time in the NRL financially, why wouldn't you? I really hope he stays but if he goes I'll have no hard feelings towards him and be thankful for the time he spent with us putting in his all and taking us to a grand final for the first time in 25 years at the very least. You do you John.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Toviii »

hobbsy wrote:I have to say one part of all of this I find extremely disappointing is the attitude and comments of some fans towards John Bateman as part of this. This is a bloke who has left his family including a young daughter who he is clearly extremely close with (obviously, who wouldn't be with their own kids?) To come play for us. He's a fantastic player and a great bloke and it's easy to get attached to those guys but at the end of the day as if Bradford or Wigan didn't feel the same when he left them. Of course he wants to get the most out of his time in the NRL financially, why wouldn't you? I really hope he stays but if he goes I'll have no hard feelings towards him and be thankful for the time he spent with us putting in his all and taking us to a grand final for the first time in 25 years at the very least. You do you John.
Totally agree with this. Also that latest Hooper article clearly confirms that the leaks to the media have all come through Isaac Moses not John! Just another player manager trying to drive up their dividends
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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by sprintman »

hobbsy wrote:
May 24, 2020, 3:00 pm
I have to say one part of all of this I find extremely disappointing is the attitude and comments of some fans towards John Bateman as part of this. This is a bloke who has left his family including a young daughter who he is clearly extremely close with (obviously, who wouldn't be with their own kids?) To come play for us. He's a fantastic player and a great bloke and it's easy to get attached to those guys but at the end of the day as if Bradford or Wigan didn't feel the same when he left them. Of course he wants to get the most out of his time in the NRL financially, why wouldn't you? I really hope he stays but if he goes I'll have no hard feelings towards him and be thankful for the time he spent with us putting in his all and taking us to a grand final for the first time in 25 years at the very least. You do you John.
Well said.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Seiffert82 »

This is playing out like Leilua.

It's all good. Bateman was great for us last year, but at the end of the day it's the spine which will win us the comp, not a backrower.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Botman »

hobbsy wrote:
May 24, 2020, 3:00 pm
I have to say one part of all of this I find extremely disappointing is the attitude and comments of some fans towards John Bateman as part of this. This is a bloke who has left his family including a young daughter who he is clearly extremely close with (obviously, who wouldn't be with their own kids?) To come play for us. He's a fantastic player and a great bloke and it's easy to get attached to those guys but at the end of the day as if Bradford or Wigan didn't feel the same when he left them. Of course he wants to get the most out of his time in the NRL financially, why wouldn't you? I really hope he stays but if he goes I'll have no hard feelings towards him and be thankful for the time he spent with us putting in his all and taking us to a grand final for the first time in 25 years at the very least. You do you John.
:clap: :clap:
Hear hear.

JB is 26, just come to the NRL where for the first time he has a chance to earn life changing money, he's got another 6-7 years to make as much as he can before his career his over
Now i dont know what JB has set up for himself in life after footy, it maybe that he's got a really good plan in place to transition, but most players dont. Most players think they'll just fall into something, and players as good as JB tend to think the media is a easy landing spot... those spots are few and far between

My hope is that this is all just public posturing and ultimately this lets everyone know what his true market is and the Raiders find a way to keep him long term. And i would advocate for a lot of different things to make that happen. I would let Cotric walk, i would shop Tapine, i would be speaking to Hodgson and Whitehead, who are both turning 31 this year, and maybe looking to head back home for the last phase of their career (suspect this is more likely for Smelly, since Hodgson has become a citizen and appears to be content on staying in Aus), what are Sia's plans beyond this year?

I would leave no stone unturned to find a way to keep Bateman, and the only players i think i would say would be off limits are the spine, Papalii and Croker (and please spare me this arguement again, it doesnt matter what you or i or anything thinks of him, the coach and CEO adore him and he's not going anywhere, even for JB so lets all just accept that and keep it moving), but if things were able to come together and he left, it would suck really badly, and we'd be a considerably worse football team without him, but id bare no ill will towards him at all and i think its poor form for any fan to get on his case about this.
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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by gangrenous »

Largely agree with you pigman. But I think there is some scope for criticism in the handling here from being so mercenary as to permit your management to run these stories in grand final week.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by edwahu »

I don't really agree that players are doing the right thing if they force a release from their contracts just because a better offer comes along. Especially if they are actively seeking a better deal within months of starting their current one.

Whether this one plays out that way is yet to be seen.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Azza »

gangrenous wrote:
May 24, 2020, 3:38 pm
Largely agree with you pigman. But I think there is some scope for criticism in the handling here from being so mercenary as to permit your management to run these stories in grand final week.


Yeah agree - it's easy to assume the moral high ground and say Bateman can look after his future etc - but anyone with half a brain isn't even disputing that. I'm all for the Raiders giving him an upgrade - it's the way his manager has gone about parading these stories at two critical points - firstly before our first grand final in 25 years - and then before we restart season 2020 - that really annoys me.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Azza »

greeneyed wrote:
May 24, 2020, 2:54 pm
James Hooper maintains John Bateman’s manager agitated for Canberra Raiders release

James Hooper has stood by his story that suggested John Bateman’s managent has been agitating for a release from the Raiders since the 2019 Grand Final week.

“The Bulldogs and the Dragons are the two teams that are having a strong look at John and would love to get him there for next season,” Hooper said.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 0c70f19847

AUDIO: ‪James Hooper responds to John Bateman's Twitter posts: https://omny.fm/shows/triple-m-rocks-fo ... itter-pos‬

‪AUDIO: Canberra Raiders co-captain Josh Hodgson speaks as the team prepares for the Round 3 clash with the Melbourne Storm... and the Bateman situation: https://omny.fm/shows/triple-m-rocks-fo ... son-opens‬

‪#NRL #WeAreRaiders #wearecbr ‬
Audio links don't seem to work

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Botman »

Azza wrote:
May 24, 2020, 3:59 pm
gangrenous wrote:
May 24, 2020, 3:38 pm
Largely agree with you pigman. But I think there is some scope for criticism in the handling here from being so mercenary as to permit your management to run these stories in grand final week.


Yeah agree - it's easy to assume the moral high ground and say Bateman can look after his future etc - but anyone with half a brain isn't even disputing that. I'm all for the Raiders giving him an upgrade - it's the way his manager has gone about parading these stories at two critical points - firstly before our first grand final in 25 years - and then before we restart season 2020 - that really annoys me.
Yeah I guess that’s all fair. It never bothered me greatly in GF week and it doesn’t bother me now. If you’re on his case about wanting more money or changing clubs to get more money... I can’t agree with that

But it’s very fair to say they haven’t handled this situation particularly well
Last edited by Botman on May 24, 2020, 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by greeneyed »

Bateman himself ran the story in Grand Final week. I don’t think Friday’s tweet was great either, given the personal commentary and swearing. But looks like I’m in the small minority there.

I’ve no doubt John Bateman wants to stay in Canberra and he’s certainly entitled to try and get the best deal he can... within the terms of his contract. I don’t think he’s being well served by his manager, however... and it seems that Hooper’s story is basically reflecting the things the manager is telling other clubs. The fact Bateman has permission to talk to other clubs was correct.

Hopefully it all works out and he stays in Canberra with an upgraded deal (but one the club can reasonably afford given the cap constraints). He would be a massive loss, so I certainly hope he stays. BTW the people saying the loss of Collins, Murchie and Bateman frees cash for an upgrade... I don’t think so, given they were probably all on minimum deals or modest ones. And at some stage, those players have to be replaced.
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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Mr Squiggle »

Given the situation with his daughter I think it would be very difficult for him to commit beyond 2021.

The club needs to honour the contract. Offer him a generous and fair upgrade on his last year and ask him again when the season is over what his plans are for 2022.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Azza »

We need to win a comp. And that right soon.

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by -PJ- »

If JohnBoy is missing his family back in ENG so much he'll go home and earn plenty of $$$ wherever he lands.

Being in Canberra, Sydney, Brisbane or wherever don't change much.

If he wants to play NRL I believe hes very happy where he is and it will be sorted..

I said this in an earlier post..he signed a deal..read the fine print..and with a very cheap biro...
He signed an agreement.
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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by Raider47 »

greeneyed wrote:
May 24, 2020, 4:07 pm
Bateman himself ran the story in Grand Final week. I don’t think Friday’s tweet was great either, given the personal commentary and swearing. But looks like I’m in the small minority there.

I’ve no doubt John Bateman wants to stay in Canberra and he’s certainly entitled to try and get the best deal he can... within the terms of his contract. I don’t think he’s being well served by his manager, however... and it seems that Hooper’s story is basically reflecting the things the manager is telling other clubs. The fact Bateman has permission to talk to other clubs was correct.

Hopefully it all works out and he stays in Canberra with an upgraded deal (but one the club can reasonably afford given the cap constraints). He would be a massive loss, so I certainly hope he stays. BTW the people saying the loss of Collins, Murchie and Bateman frees cash for an upgrade... I don’t think so, given they were probably all on minimum deals or modest ones. And at some stage, those players have to be replaced.
What's minimum salary? Isn't it 100k?

In that case releasing those 3 players would be minimum $300k. Minimum. Bateman would have been on a bit more I'd imagine considering he racked up a few games as a Raider.

Surely a fair chunk of that 300k is designed to be sent Bateman's way?

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Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by gergreg »

Raider47 wrote:
greeneyed wrote:
May 24, 2020, 4:07 pm
Bateman himself ran the story in Grand Final week. I don’t think Friday’s tweet was great either, given the personal commentary and swearing. But looks like I’m in the small minority there.

I’ve no doubt John Bateman wants to stay in Canberra and he’s certainly entitled to try and get the best deal he can... within the terms of his contract. I don’t think he’s being well served by his manager, however... and it seems that Hooper’s story is basically reflecting the things the manager is telling other clubs. The fact Bateman has permission to talk to other clubs was correct.

Hopefully it all works out and he stays in Canberra with an upgraded deal (but one the club can reasonably afford given the cap constraints). He would be a massive loss, so I certainly hope he stays. BTW the people saying the loss of Collins, Murchie and Bateman frees cash for an upgrade... I don’t think so, given they were probably all on minimum deals or modest ones. And at some stage, those players have to be replaced.
What's minimum salary? Isn't it 100k?

In that case releasing those 3 players would be minimum $300k. Minimum. Bateman would have been on a bit more I'd imagine considering he racked up a few games as a Raider.

Surely a fair chunk of that 300k is designed to be sent Bateman's way?
We don't have the Roosters or Broncos accountants. You release a minimum wage player - you need to replace them with another player.

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julian87
Laurie Daley
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Joined: October 20, 2005, 3:35 pm

Re: Don Furner says John Bateman has permission to have negotiations with other clubs

Post by julian87 »

They all would have been very low end. But the club wouldn’t have let 3 props walk in a week if it wasn’t going to help a little bit. I’d guess the club would save maybe 100k cap wise for a season on replacing them with Flegg players. You’d only have half of that now with when the pay periods are.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.

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