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Matt
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Re: NFL Thread

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PigRickman wrote: March 1, 2019, 1:54 pm The young TE’s need to be cut and replaced
Wouldn’t feed any of them
Go and pay Tyler Eifert on a prove it deal and draft a guy in what looms as the best TE draft in years

I just don’t know what the cowboys expect Witten to give them. They probably can’t get one of the top 3 without trading up but Jace Sternberger and Kaden Smith should be there
Both definitely good TE prospects
Would have done that last yr if it wasnt for a certain Div rival pulling the rug out from under them :D
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Re: NFL Thread

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Matt wrote: March 1, 2019, 2:17 pm
PigRickman wrote: March 1, 2019, 1:54 pm The young TE’s need to be cut and replaced
Wouldn’t feed any of them
Go and pay Tyler Eifert on a prove it deal and draft a guy in what looms as the best TE draft in years

I just don’t know what the cowboys expect Witten to give them. They probably can’t get one of the top 3 without trading up but Jace Sternberger and Kaden Smith should be there
Both definitely good TE prospects
Would have done that last yr if it wasnt for a certain Div rival pulling the rug out from under them :D
Haha so what? You just exhume the bodies of the last great TE?
Dallas is a stud and I’m **** over the moon we got him and kept him out of the cowboys hands
But this TE class is legit stacked, they can get a guy who as a prospect is as good as him this year imo

But as an eagles fan, I’m over the moon if they don’t draft one. Haloti Ngata could blanket cover Witten at this stage of his career
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Re: NFL Thread

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Who knows, maybe Cowboys cut 2 of Rico, Jarwin and Swaim and draft one of those guys so Witz can work with them?
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Re: NFL Thread

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I just love the NFL's obsession with numbers. At the draft combine Kyler Murray has measured in at 5'10 1/8" instead of the perception he was 5'9 7/8". Now that he's proven to have an extra 1/4" in height there is a massive buzz that he could go number 1 overall.

Only in the NFL.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Northern Raider wrote: March 1, 2019, 8:44 pm I just love the NFL's obsession with numbers. At the draft combine Kyler Murray has measured in at 5'10 1/8" instead of the perception he was 5'9 7/8". Now that he's proven to have an extra 1/4" in height there is a massive buzz that he could go number 1 overall.

Only in the NFL.
:roflmao
10 yrs ago either way, he would be at the bottom coz he would be too small
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Re: NFL Thread

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Metcalf is a freak!
More hops that Julio.
More reps than Mack.
Can run with Cooks.
DAMN!
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Re: NFL Thread

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Metcalf is a freak!
More hops that Julio.
More reps than Mack.
Can run with Cooks.
DAMN!
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Re: NFL Thread

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DK Metcalf is a **** FREIGHT train.
Marrrrone, what a performance... Im VERY concerned about those cone and shuttle times, like there has been exactly ONE highly successful NFL WR with such poor measurables in agility, fluidity and change of direction and it's Dre Hopkins, who is maybe the best contested catch physical catch point WR of all time. He's a freak. His lack of fluidity and agility is so clear to, he runs like i do haha

Metcalf is going to need to be in the right system. He's going to need to be in a high schemed offence where the play design wins, that'll allow him to get open across the middle inspite of his flaws, the same way Hopkins and to a lesser extent, Alshon Jeffery are.

If he lands in that sort of system, look out. But if he goes somewhere like say the Bills, i dont know if that works out (though that 4.33 40 and with Josh Allen's arm...). Athletically he shouldnt be playing football, he should be cloned as a super soldier. What a specimen.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Northern Raider wrote: March 1, 2019, 8:44 pm I just love the NFL's obsession with numbers. At the draft combine Kyler Murray has measured in at 5'10 1/8" instead of the perception he was 5'9 7/8". Now that he's proven to have an extra 1/4" in height there is a massive buzz that he could go number 1 overall.

Only in the NFL.
I dont think his height was a major factor as much as him coming in at 207lbs. He was listed at 180ish in College and i dont think anyone thought he was a lick over 170lbs.
Coming in at 207 and his plans to play higher in the NFL gives you some confidence he can take the hits.

But dont buy the media smoke :)
All the real scouts already knew he was coming in much bigger and already had his height. No one's evaluation is changing on 1/4" in.
But it'll drive some content in the media for sure
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Re: NFL Thread

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PigRickman wrote: March 3, 2019, 6:23 pm
Northern Raider wrote: March 1, 2019, 8:44 pm I just love the NFL's obsession with numbers. At the draft combine Kyler Murray has measured in at 5'10 1/8" instead of the perception he was 5'9 7/8". Now that he's proven to have an extra 1/4" in height there is a massive buzz that he could go number 1 overall.

Only in the NFL.
I dont think his height was a major factor as much as him coming in at 207lbs. He was listed at 180ish in College and i dont think anyone thought he was a lick over 170lbs.
Coming in at 207 and his plans to play higher in the NFL gives you some confidence he can take the hits.

But dont buy the media smoke :)
All the real scouts already knew he was coming in much bigger and already had his height. No one's evaluation is changing on 1/4" in.
But it'll drive some content in the media for sure
Yeah, its really all media talk/hype. They get paid for the speculation ad that comes in spades leading into the draft. I just find it hilarious that with the reports that extra 1/4 inch has seen him go from risky conveyance to the top draft prospect.

This is why there are so many 'surprises' on draft day. The guys actually picking have done all their own homework.....and none of it includes reading internet blogs.
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Re: NFL Thread

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U know you hit the gean jackpot when a DL is faster than Amari Cooper, OBJ and Zeke.

Sweat ran a 4.41 40. Thats insane!
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Re: NFL Thread

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Crushed about that Sweat workout. I had real designs on him getting to Philly, but that aint **** happening now.
Obscene stuff.
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Re: NFL Thread

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4.42 for a DE is insane. Its all back to the number again. He's fast, everybody knew he was fast. They train and prep for these drills so no shock he's done a PB. Now he's apparently a Top 5 pick because of it. Its amazing how these drills overshadow the ability to play football. These anicilliary tests really only cloud the issue. Surely production on the field, ability to transition to the NFL and the potential to improve are the key criteria for drafting rookies.
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Re: NFL Thread

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i think the Combine numbers just serve as a point to prove or disprove your tape study.
So like with Sweat, i think his tap shows that he's very fast and explosive, now his combine numbers confirm that athletically he is a freak in terms of that explosive stuff.
I think he was going to move up the board eventually anyways because his tape is really good.

I think Metcalf is a good example, that 40 time is going to make everyone go back and rewatch the tape and see if he really plays that big, fast and physical... of course there is always Al Davis types who get enamoured with the athleticism but i think most scouts and GM's take the combine numbers and look back at the tape to see if it matches up

As far as the media goes, Someone like Metcalf was a mid to late first 4 days ago, now he's top 10, and by April ill bet he's back into the middle of the first which is probably where he's been for most scouts and GM's the entire time.

But like i said, those athletic numbers do give him the chance to have someone reach. Al Davis would 1000% take him @ 4 haha, but that's Al for you.
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Re: NFL Thread

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I always like imagine if the NRL had something like a rookie combine where physical attributes take centre stage. Guys like Hodgo and Cam Smith wouldn't get a look in, while Reece Robinson would probably go No1 overall. :D
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Re: NFL Thread

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PigRickman wrote: March 4, 2019, 9:03 am i think the Combine numbers just serve as a point to prove or disprove your tape study.
So like with Sweat, i think his tap shows that he's very fast and explosive, now his combine numbers confirm that athletically he is a freak in terms of that explosive stuff.
I think he was going to move up the board eventually anyways because his tape is really good.

I think Metcalf is a good example, that 40 time is going to make everyone go back and rewatch the tape and see if he really plays that big, fast and physical... of course there is always Al Davis types who get enamoured with the athleticism but i think most scouts and GM's take the combine numbers and look back at the tape to see if it matches up

As far as the media goes, Someone like Metcalf was a mid to late first 4 days ago, now he's top 10, and by April ill bet he's back into the middle of the first which is probably where he's been for most scouts and GM's the entire time.

But like i said, those athletic numbers do give him the chance to have someone reach. Al Davis would 1000% take him @ 4 haha, but that's Al for you.
There's a few examples in Dolphins recent history where they went for the superior athlete with a top 10 pick and got a dud. Dion Jordan was 3rd overall and maybe not disimilar to Sweat in terms of head turning ability at combine. He ended up with more drug suspensions than sacks. Quite an achievement that.

Going back a bit further they took Ted Ginn Jnr who was an unbelievably fast and skillful WR. Unfortunately he was just very average when it came to actually playing football.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Northern Raider wrote: March 4, 2019, 9:40 am
PigRickman wrote: March 4, 2019, 9:03 am i think the Combine numbers just serve as a point to prove or disprove your tape study.
So like with Sweat, i think his tap shows that he's very fast and explosive, now his combine numbers confirm that athletically he is a freak in terms of that explosive stuff.
I think he was going to move up the board eventually anyways because his tape is really good.

I think Metcalf is a good example, that 40 time is going to make everyone go back and rewatch the tape and see if he really plays that big, fast and physical... of course there is always Al Davis types who get enamoured with the athleticism but i think most scouts and GM's take the combine numbers and look back at the tape to see if it matches up

As far as the media goes, Someone like Metcalf was a mid to late first 4 days ago, now he's top 10, and by April ill bet he's back into the middle of the first which is probably where he's been for most scouts and GM's the entire time.

But like i said, those athletic numbers do give him the chance to have someone reach. Al Davis would 1000% take him @ 4 haha, but that's Al for you.
There's a few examples in Dolphins recent history where they went for the superior athlete with a top 10 pick and got a dud. Dion Jordan was 3rd overall and maybe not disimilar to Sweat in terms of head turning ability at combine. He ended up with more drug suspensions than sacks. Quite an achievement that.

Going back a bit further they took Ted Ginn Jnr who was an unbelievably fast and skillful WR. Unfortunately he was just very average when it came to actually playing football.
Not really. Randy Gregory anyone?!?!?

Add Heyward-Bey to that list. To Raiders at #7. Speed is only 1 factor.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Matt wrote: March 4, 2019, 10:27 am
Northern Raider wrote: March 4, 2019, 9:40 am
PigRickman wrote: March 4, 2019, 9:03 am i think the Combine numbers just serve as a point to prove or disprove your tape study.
So like with Sweat, i think his tap shows that he's very fast and explosive, now his combine numbers confirm that athletically he is a freak in terms of that explosive stuff.
I think he was going to move up the board eventually anyways because his tape is really good.

I think Metcalf is a good example, that 40 time is going to make everyone go back and rewatch the tape and see if he really plays that big, fast and physical... of course there is always Al Davis types who get enamoured with the athleticism but i think most scouts and GM's take the combine numbers and look back at the tape to see if it matches up

As far as the media goes, Someone like Metcalf was a mid to late first 4 days ago, now he's top 10, and by April ill bet he's back into the middle of the first which is probably where he's been for most scouts and GM's the entire time.

But like i said, those athletic numbers do give him the chance to have someone reach. Al Davis would 1000% take him @ 4 haha, but that's Al for you.
There's a few examples in Dolphins recent history where they went for the superior athlete with a top 10 pick and got a dud. Dion Jordan was 3rd overall and maybe not disimilar to Sweat in terms of head turning ability at combine. He ended up with more drug suspensions than sacks. Quite an achievement that.

Going back a bit further they took Ted Ginn Jnr who was an unbelievably fast and skillful WR. Unfortunately he was just very average when it came to actually playing football.
Not really. Randy Gregory anyone?!?!?

Add Heyward-Bey to that list. To Raiders at #7. Speed is only 1 factor.
At least the Cowboys got 1 productive year out of Gregory. Jordan was on the Phins roster fro 4 years, had 2 sacks (both in rookie season) and was suspended 3 times.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Of the top prospects I'd say Quinnen Williams turned most heads. 303lb and ran a 4.84 40. What would impress people most is that his first run was 4.87 and he was told to park it because the time was outstanding. He still had another run and went better!! That kind of competitive instinct will not go unnoticed by scouts.

Has to be in the mix for the Cards no1 pick. Bosa put up average numbers so they have to consider who's got the better upside. Either way they are both potential franchise D linemen. I have no idea why they would entertain Kyler Murray and give up on Rosen after his rookie year. Too much chasing shiny objects.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Northern Raider wrote: March 4, 2019, 11:26 am Of the top prospects I'd say Quinnen Williams turned most heads. 303lb and ran a 4.84 40. What would impress people most is that his first run was 4.87 and he was told to park it because the time was outstanding. He still had another run and went better!! That kind of competitive instinct will not go unnoticed by scouts.

Has to be in the mix for the Cards no1 pick. Bosa put up average numbers so they have to consider who's got the better upside. Either way they are both potential franchise D linemen. I have no idea why they would entertain Kyler Murray and give up on Rosen after his rookie year. Too much chasing shiny objects.
Those 2 have to be 1, 2 in the draft, surely. Ill be honest, I like the safety of the Bosa name, as tenuous as that is, but I think its splitting hairs at this point.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Northern Raider wrote: March 4, 2019, 11:26 am Of the top prospects I'd say Quinnen Williams turned most heads. 303lb and ran a 4.84 40. What would impress people most is that his first run was 4.87 and he was told to park it because the time was outstanding. He still had another run and went better!! That kind of competitive instinct will not go unnoticed by scouts.

Has to be in the mix for the Cards no1 pick. Bosa put up average numbers so they have to consider who's got the better upside. Either way they are both potential franchise D linemen. I have no idea why they would entertain Kyler Murray and give up on Rosen after his rookie year. Too much chasing shiny objects.

I've seen some say they've given Williams their highest ever grade for a defensive player. Hell of a player.
I think in today's NFL, given how much interior pressure can dictate terms, you'd be well within your rights to take Williams over Bosa if you think he's a better prospect... i think if the Cards keep the pick and it's not Kyler Murray, it'll be Bosa over Williams. But those two are neck and neck for the best players in the draft.

The Niners would be overjoyed if the Cards go Murray/Williams. I think they're desperate for Nick Bosa
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Re: NFL Thread

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Matt wrote: March 4, 2019, 11:36 am
Northern Raider wrote: March 4, 2019, 11:26 am Of the top prospects I'd say Quinnen Williams turned most heads. 303lb and ran a 4.84 40. What would impress people most is that his first run was 4.87 and he was told to park it because the time was outstanding. He still had another run and went better!! That kind of competitive instinct will not go unnoticed by scouts.

Has to be in the mix for the Cards no1 pick. Bosa put up average numbers so they have to consider who's got the better upside. Either way they are both potential franchise D linemen. I have no idea why they would entertain Kyler Murray and give up on Rosen after his rookie year. Too much chasing shiny objects.
Those 2 have to be 1, 2 in the draft, surely. Ill be honest, I like the safety of the Bosa name, as tenuous as that is, but I think its splitting hairs at this point.
Williams is a close to a sure thing as you can get with a rookie. No obvious red flags on or off field. great interior pass rusher with a good base and strength in stopping the run. With his size, speed and agility combo he could play inside in a 4-3 and outside in a 3-4.

Comparing him and Bosa it come back to primary need of the team selecting. Do you want an elite edge guy who can contribute from day 1 then it's Bosa. If you need interior pressure and a guy you can build your D-line around for years to come then it's Williams.

If both are needs then I'd go Williams purely for the better upside.
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Re: NFL Thread

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PigRickman wrote: March 4, 2019, 12:51 pm
Northern Raider wrote: March 4, 2019, 11:26 am Of the top prospects I'd say Quinnen Williams turned most heads. 303lb and ran a 4.84 40. What would impress people most is that his first run was 4.87 and he was told to park it because the time was outstanding. He still had another run and went better!! That kind of competitive instinct will not go unnoticed by scouts.

Has to be in the mix for the Cards no1 pick. Bosa put up average numbers so they have to consider who's got the better upside. Either way they are both potential franchise D linemen. I have no idea why they would entertain Kyler Murray and give up on Rosen after his rookie year. Too much chasing shiny objects.

I've seen some say they've given Williams their highest ever grade for a defensive player. Hell of a player.
I think in today's NFL, given how much interior pressure can dictate terms, you'd be well within your rights to take Williams over Bosa if you think he's a better prospect... i think if the Cards keep the pick and it's not Kyler Murray, it'll be Bosa over Williams. But those two are neck and neck for the best players in the draft.

The Niners would be overjoyed if the Cards go Murray/Williams. I think they're desperate for Nick Bosa
I was posting while this went up but we're on the same page in it coming back to need. 49ers want the edge guy and Bosa is a no brainer for them.

I really, really don't like the idea of Cards taking Murray but I really, really hope they do. It has the potential to really screw up teams looking for a QB and some might trade up or get desparate reaching for guys like Lock and even Jones. If that happens then we'll see a few of the top defensive prospect fall into the teens.....where Phins pick :)
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Re: NFL Thread

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I think if the Cards could move Rosen for a first... say the Skins #15 pick, then by all means, you go and get Murray, you go all in with Kliff Kingsbury and at 15 you come back and get a Montez Sweat if he's there, or Clelin Ferrell someone like that.

that'd be good... but unless im getting a first, i think id keep Rosen. I like him, i think he flashed some major traits last year despite a horrendous coaching staff, an embarrassing NFL line and WR's you wouldnt feed outside the corpse of larry fitz. (Though i do like Kirk long term)
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Re: NFL Thread

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PigRickman wrote: March 4, 2019, 6:30 pm I think if the Cards could move Rosen for a first... say the Skins #15 pick, then by all means, you go and get Murray, you go all in with Kliff Kingsbury and at 15 you come back and get a Montez Sweat if he's there, or Clelin Ferrell someone like that.

that'd be good... but unless im getting a first, i think id keep Rosen. I like him, i think he flashed some major traits last year despite a horrendous coaching staff, an embarrassing NFL line and WR's you wouldnt feed outside the corpse of larry fitz. (Though i do like Kirk long term)
Totally agree that the Cards need to stick with Rosen. He was in an impossible position last year for a rookie QB. Being realistic I reckon Tom Brady would have struggle in that team.

As for trade though I don't see a team giving up a 1st round pick for Rosen. While he was a highly rated 1st rounder last year he's now been on show in the NFL and struggled, though not entirely through his own fault. The bar is set pretty high for rookie QBs these days and his production in 2018 was not 1st round talent. Maybe a pick in the late 20s if a team saw him as a genuine upgrade but thats the limit. I don't see Cards getting offered much more than a 2nd round pick and if so would they be willing to take that wash on their 2018 draft?

All that said I think its a really dumb move for the Cards to even consider moving on Rosen and chasing Murray. Conversely they are really well places to trade down a few spots and let him go to a team in more desparate need that covets him. They could still get an elite draft prospect and also stockpile a few more picks to make up for what they gave up last year.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Yeah im totally on board with that, IF the cards could get a mid first round pick, you can sell that, you picked Rosen @ 10, and you trade him #15 or even like 20ish... that's able to be sold, and then you take Murray and move on

But i agree they aren't going to get that. Teams know they're in a position of desperation. And IMO, he SHOULD get a first! He's a good player, his college tape would put him as the clear cut #1 QB this year, he showed enough in a terrible situation last year that makes you think he can be a franchise QB AAAAAAAAAAAANNND the Cards have already paid out most of his deal, any team trading for him now, will basically pay 2m per year for the next 3 years! that's astounding cost control... if my team didnt have a QB, i'd be FURIOUS if they werent willing to give a middle to late first for that.

But i dont think the cards will get that, even if they should... so at that point, i'd do what they are doing, make it seem like they're taking Murray and drive up the market for the pick, trade back and fill out the team... fantastic... unless of course they're serious and they take Murray, sell Rosen for 10c on the dollar, in which case i think that's a mistake.
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Re: NFL Thread

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So would New England consider trading pick 32 for Rosen? He can sit behind Brady for a year before taking the baton. I reckon he could trhive in that system.
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Re: NFL Thread

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This was a thought exercise i did the other day about trying to sort of solve the remaining QB problems around the league
I really thought about Rosen at the Pats, and Saints even... i think he'd be dynamite in those systems but ultimately i think Brady and Brees have at least 2 if not 3 years left in them each

Anyways this was where i came down on it
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Re: NFL Thread

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Im not sure all the older guys will play on, but I wont pick which will go 1st.

Mariota, Winston, Stafford, Dalton have to be on their last legs. They just havent produced.

@Pigman,
Whats your alternate plan if Rosen stays? Where does Murray land? Raiders? Giants? Phins? Jagz?
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Re: NFL Thread

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I think the Raiders, they might decide to redshirt him, work on him a bit like KC did with Mahomes, and then move Carr to Washington/Giants/Cinci in a years time... or they may just move him during the draft... tough to know how they'd play that out.

If i had to guess, id say which ever of ARI and OAK who end up with Murray, their QB is heading to Washington. But i wouldnt bet on that with your money. Haha
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Northern Raider »

With the NFL you might have 32 out of 32 right there but also could get 6 out of 32. Its why many people find off season more entertaining than when they are actually playing. :lol:

News is that Cards are already shopping Rosen. Looking at your list there's a few landing spots for a team phasing out their franchise QB. Patriots, Chargers and Saints the obvious ones. Steelers if the team think Big Ben's time is near.

For the Dolphins I don't see them picking up Bridgewater if they want Tua next year. Teddy is just as likely to give them 7-8 wins which will put them out of the contest. Easiest way to tank is go with a QB currently on their roster. They recently signed Jake Rudock so why use him? Luke Falk is also on the roster coming of a hand injury. Coaching staff like him so he's in the mix too. Add a low cost veteran QB like Josh McCown as a back up and mentor.

With Bridgewater I think you're killing your chances of the top 5 pick next year. If they did sign him then they should be looking to use their no13 pick this year on Drew Lock. Alternatively target Grier in the 2nd round.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Northern Raider »

Interesting snippet from a post combine article while discussing Kyler Murray:

former Redskins and Texans GM Charley Casserly said of feedback he received about how Murray interviewed with teams in Indianapolis: “These were the worst comments I ever got on a top-rated quarterback and I’ve been doing this a long time. . . . Leadership — not good. Study habits — not good. The board work — below not good. Not good at all in any of those areas, raising major concerns about what this guy is going to do.”

None of those things scream no1 overall pick. Murray has unbelievable tools. Speed, agility, arm, accuracy, instincts etc but to make it at the next level you really need to nail the mental aspect. Will be able to apply himself to being a top NFL QB?
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Matt »

Rosen trade gathering more legs. Giants are apparently interested in a trade, though most believe Haskins will be there at 6. Either way, its to sit behind Eli for a yr.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Matt »

DJs new mock draft has dropped. Looks like his top half is pretty similar to your opinions chaps
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Northern Raider »

Matt wrote: March 6, 2019, 7:09 pm Rosen trade gathering more legs. Giants are apparently interested in a trade, though most believe Haskins will be there at 6. Either way, its to sit behind Eli for a yr.
Giants are a perfect trade partner. I hadn't included them as I felt they were fixed on drafting Haskins. Rosen to Giants and Foles to Jags could even see Haskins drop out of the top 10.
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