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Northern Raider
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Northern Raider »

Botman wrote: February 8, 2021, 9:02 pm That was always going to happen. It's Brady, thats a whole different thing
Casuals revel themselves on that front. They'll talk about Brady, real talk will be about the D. The Gravediggers on the back end, Carlton Davis, Sean Murphey-Bunting, Antonio Winfield Jr... those guys absolutely dominated. If it were up to me, i'd have given the MVP to the DL, but if pressed to give to to a single player, it'd have been Devin White who was absolutely everywhere. But JPP, Vea, Shaq Barrett and Suh collectively as a group curb stomped these dudes. It was a total mismatch up front, and as we are constantly reminded of, QB's arent nearly as important as we all like to think, not a single QB in NFL history can win when he's pressured the way Mahomes was. You win up front on the DL and OL, thats how you win

Pat Mahomes ran for nearly 500 yards behind the LOS today... that's how much he was running for his life. The Bucs defence put on one of the greatest **** kickings in SB history.

Edit: Just FWIW i dont have a particular issue with Brady getting MVP, the problem for the D is there was a bunch of players who made a ton of plays and no one stood out. So when no one stands out, Tom Brady is going to get the nod. That's just how it is. But there is no question that this game was won the TB Defence.
Could almost argue that Mahomes played better than Brady considering his O-line disintegrated and his receivers couldn't catch. He threw some unbelievable passes under pressure only for it to slip through someone's hands. If some of those stuck the story could have been different.

While on the topic of could-a-beens, big turning point in 2nd qtr at 7-3 where Brady got picked but it was negated by a defensive holding call. Instead of a turnover the drive ended in Gronk's 2nd TD. May have technically been correct call but those have been ignored most of the playoffs.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Botman »

The officiating in the first half was pretty sketchy
I dont think it mattered to the game because that holding call, and the two PI's although IMO, were total Bull calls, the simple fact is the KC OL couldnt block the Bucs front. So bad calls might have made the game closer, but the result wouldnt have changed. There was no chance KC could win given the size of the mismatch up front. As said, over 50% of his drop backs was pressure, and i would conservatively estimate at least half those he wasnt pressured on Mike Remmers was probably committing a hold on the Bucs DE...

Spare a thought for Mike Remmers too, dude played in a SB a few years ago and Von Miller won MVP because he put a clown suit on Remmers... Remmers come back now years later, and my god they did it to the poor guy again. Be it Barrett, JPP, and even big Vita Vea got snaps on the outside and they all just embarrassed Remmers.

Re: Mahomes... i agree, you could almost do that, given the duress he was under... he had those two back to back throws on 3rd and 4th down, where he ran around, avoided about 3 sacks, then as he's being dragged down, and in the second case, he's literally mid air, no mechanics, no platform, nothing... just pure arm, and he throws 30 yard DIMES, between and over Bucs defenders, perfect balls that hit his damn receivers in the face... there is no qb in the history of the game that could make either of those throws, let alone do them back to back. He's absolutely incredible.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Northern Raider »

Yeah, you can only judge a game on what did happen. Not what might have happened if something else happened. Who knows if that turnover might have given KC some momentum. Could have even seen KC take a lead into half time and not come out playing catch up like they did.

You still have to assume the Bucc's D-line would have dominated anyway. It was insane the amount of time Mahomes was running around around trying to avoid unhindered pass rushers. On the rare occasion he did stay in the pocket it collapsed like grass hut in cyclone.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Botman »

Botman wrote: February 7, 2021, 12:58 pm The eagles finalising a deal with the bears to trade Wentz
Based on reporting, I think it’ll be done within the next few hours

Terms I’ve seen floated is Wentz for 20th pick, Tarik Cohen and lololol BIG DICK NICK!

Haha. Amazing
OK, reporting now suggests that things were zooming towards a deal and Howie Roseman had the **** balls to try and gouge the potential suitors to the point where everyone is starting to cool... they've **** the Wentz situation up so badly, if Howie doubles downs and **** the trade up now because he wants obscene value... i might just fly to Philly to riot.

The situation with Wentz is sadly unsalvagable.
Whatever the best offer is, they need to take it and be done with it... sooner or latter these teams will make an organisational decision to persue other options. If there is a first on the table, and it is reliably reported that the Bears have #20 in the deal.... Trying to extort them to give you a 2022 first is just getting greedy. Take the 2021 first, whatever other day 2-3 compensation is on offer and let everyone move on with their lives.

(Sorry, im just so angry and frustrated by this... maybe ill look like a fool and Howie holding on will end up netting a better deal, but this circus needs to come to an end)
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Matt »

Botman wrote: February 8, 2021, 9:15 pm Also appopos to nothing, i just listened to ATN pod, which had nothing to do with the game but was a tribute to Chris Wesseling, who succumbed to his fight against cancer a few days ago.
I've been listening to that pod since... i dont know when, it's been that long, and Wess was one of the formative voices in my NFL education. His writing and podcasting helped me take my understanding and love for the game to another level... and for that i am incredibly thankful. I never met the man but he impacted my life and helped cultivate a new life passion and i am so incredibly sad for his family, he leaves behind his wife Lakisha and son Linc. RIP the Mailman. :(

Donate if you can.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/For-lakisha- ... hare-sheet
Faaaaaaa....
I hadn't seen that. He was awesome! Thats really sad
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Matt »

Putting it out there...
Any chance ARod replaces Big Ben in Pittsburgh?
He would finally have weapons on both sides of the ball.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Botman »

Matt wrote: February 13, 2021, 12:07 pm Putting it out there...
Any chance ARod replaces Big Ben in Pittsburgh?
He would finally have weapons on both sides of the ball.
GB arent trading Rodgers, and Big Ben is about to redo his deal to come back at a much lower cap hit.
Both teams are, im fairly certain, going into 2021 with their starting QB in tact
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by the bone »

Wentz traded to the Colts for a 2021 3rd round pick, and a 2022 conditional 1st round pick (becomes a 2nd rounder if he plays less than 70% of offensive snaps or less than 75% and they miss the playoffs).

In other words:
Wentz plays more than 75% - 1st
Wentz plays 70-75% and they get in playoffs - 1st
Wentz plays 70-75% and they miss playoffs - 2nd
Wentz plays less than 70% - 2nd

Considering the Colts don’t have much on their QB depth chart, it’s really conditional for injury, as I imagine Wentz will be the starter if healthy.

A pretty fair trade IMO. Eagles save less than $1MM on this years’ cap, and have to eat a bunch of dead cap, but at least he’s off their books after this year. And for the Colts, they get a former (almost) MVP for reasonable draft capital and at a reasonable cap hit:
2021 - $25MM (guaranteed)
2022 - $22MM ($15MM guaranteed at start of 2021 league year, $7MM guaranteed at the start of the 2022 league year)
2023 - $25MM (not guaranteed)
2024 - $26MM (not guaranteed)
Last edited by the bone on February 19, 2021, 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Matt »

the bone wrote: February 19, 2021, 9:08 am Wentz traded to the Colts for a 2021 3rd round pick, and a 2022 conditional 1st round pick (becomes a 2nd rounder if he plays less than 75% of offensive snaps or less than 70% and they miss the playoffs).

In other words:
Wentz plays more than 75% - 1st
Wentz plays 70-75% and they get in playoffs - 1st
Wentz plays 70-75% and they miss playoffs - 2nd
Wentz plays less than 70% - 2nd

Considering the Colts don’t have much on their QB depth chart, it’s really conditional for injury, as I imagine Wentz will be the starter if healthy.

A pretty fair trade IMO. Eagles save less than $1MM on this years’ cap, and have to eat a bunch of dead cap, but at least he’s off their books after this year. And for the Colts, they get a former (almost) MVP for reasonable draft capital and at a reasonable cap hit:
2021 - $25MM (guaranteed)
2022 - $22MM ($15MM guaranteed at start of 2021 league year, $7MM guaranteed at the start of the 2022 league year)
2023 - $25MM (not guaranteed)
2024 - $26MM (not guaranteed)
Sounds like a bargain for Colts.

Philly did what they had too, and not sure they get any other upside. Probably in the QB market now though. Coz surely they aren't going Hurts and Sudfield?!?
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by the bone »

They’ll run it back with Hurts and probably sign a veteran QB on a modest deal as backup/moderate competition. Someone like Jacoby Brisset or Tyrod Taylor, maybe even Fitzmagic!

I’m sure they’ll do their due diligence on this year’s QB class, as Hurts doesn’t preclude them from taking a QB at 6. But ultimately I think they’ll go one of the top receivers, see how Hurts goes this year, and reassess their QB situation next offseason.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Not the compensation i was hoping for... for a few weeks there it seemed like they were going to pressure the bears into doing something REAL dumb
But ultimately i do think that ends up being a first and a 3rd for Wentz

As i said prior, this is an organisational failure. To take that 2017-18 Carson Wentz and turn him into the 2020 version who wanted nothing to do with the franchise, and taking a 34m cap hold with him can not be viewed as anything but catastrophic failure, the Wentz era itself though, as I've also said... you play this game to win rings and the organisation did that. They could not have done it without him. So the era has to been seen as a success, even if the organisation ultimately failed Wentz

I think he'll bounce back at the Colts. I dont think we'll ever see 2017 Wentz again, i think he is too scarred physically and more importantly mentally to get back there, but i do think he will be the long term franchise QB for the Colts and he'll settle in around his 2019 level of play where he was maybe the 9th-12th best QB in the league.

So what now for Philly?

If i were running the team id strongly consider taking Ja'Marr Chase, Kyle Pitts, Davonta Smith at #6, but likely trade back and try to get an extra first next year for the team coming into #6 to get their QB (probably someone like the Panthers at 8, Broncos at 9, Niners at 12 or NE at 15 are potential suitors), and then extra day 2-3 picks to move back again into the 20's where i could target Rashod Batmen... and then fill the roster out with CB's, S, LB and Interior OL in days 2 and 3, understanding that 2021 with our cap situation and Jalen Hurts under centre likely isnt going to be a very good season, but the hard reset is done and the rebuild is underway so we can properly evaluate Hurts and if he sucks, this team is going to be in a position to draft the QB next year or the year after if next years class doesnt enthuse me... If Hurts is great, then we're just fast tracked a long that process and we can build around him

Howie and co? If they are consistent in how they've generally operated at the QB position, i find it hard to believe that when they grade out Fields, Wilson and Lance (forget Lawrence, not even considering that as he's a jaguar) that the grades wont come in on all 3, as being higher grades than they had on Hurts. So i think they're going to find it very difficult to pass on QB here at 6. They may even look to trade up into a spot to get their best one (which for me is Wilson now, but it's tight with him and Fields)

What would be objectively hilarious is if they trade Carson Wentz, and end up drafting Trey Lance, the QB out of... wait for FBS Powerhouse... North Dakota State :lol:
Which fwiw i wouldnt have an issue with. That would be fun content and fans and commentators would make all the jokes, as well we all should. But the Eagles absolutely should not consider the PR angle of taking Lance out of North Dakota State after just shipping Wentz who came out from NDS. If eagles wipe him from consideration because they dont want that narrative, then they're doing themselves a huge disservice.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Northern Raider »

Wentz trade is a reasonable one I think. Colts get a ready made starter that's in a great position to reinvigorate his career. Pheagles compensation maybe a little light but a 1st and 3rd may be as good as it gets. They'd already lost the high ground in negotiations.

Ironically if it turns into a 2nd and 3rd round because Wentz didn't meet the criteria it actually becomes a better deal for the Pheagles and worse for the Colts. It effectively means the Colts got very little value for the picks they gave up.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Botman »

Here’s how it goes
Wentz starts the first 13 games, plays well, but through a combination of defensive let downs, a couple of shanked game winning fg, they’re 7-6
Wentz hits his 75% marker

And then Wentz gets hurt and they go 0-4 down the stretch
Finish up 7-10, and with pick 15 in the draft 😂
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Northern Raider »

Botman wrote: February 19, 2021, 3:07 pm Here’s how it goes
Wentz starts the first 13 games, plays well, but through a combination of defensive let downs, a couple of shanked game winning fg, they’re 7-6
Wentz hits his 75% marker

And then Wentz gets hurt and they go 0-4 down the stretch
Finish up 7-10, and with pick 15 in the draft 😂
Colts start 0-5 and Wentz gets benched. Jacob Eason takes over and turns them around for a 10-6 season but just miss a wildcard on tie breakers. Eagles end up with pick 40. :D
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Botman »

Disaster lol

Look, I’d rather the first round pick
Also I’m still kind of in Wentz’s corner and want him to do well
But the more likely scenario here is he probably isn’t very good haha
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Northern Raider »

Wentz will be a very interesting watch in the next few years. He peaked very early in his career so we'll now see if the aberration is with that early success or his latest efforts. Any QB can look ordinary in an ordinary team and that's what the 2020 Pheagles were. He's going to a team coming off a much better year. Of course they had one of the better modern era QBs in Rivers. Many questions to be answered next season for both Wentz and the Colts.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Botman »

Northern Raider wrote: February 19, 2021, 4:10 pm Wentz will be a very interesting watch in the next few years. He peaked very early in his career so we'll now see if the aberration is with that early success or his latest efforts. Any QB can look ordinary in an ordinary team and that's what the 2020 Pheagles were. He's going to a team coming off a much better year. Of course they had one of the better modern era QBs in Rivers. Many questions to be answered next season for both Wentz and the Colts.
Yeah I think in a stable franchise with a good oline, running game and solid defence to lean on
He’ll be able to operate at his best

I really think (perhaps optimistically) he’s going to be good there. Not 2017 good, but something closer to 2019 than 2020
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