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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Northern Raider »

Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 12:14 pm I am loathe to defend the pick because i dont think it's what should have been done, but the criticism of it is certainly starting to swing too far in the one direction.

If Hurts is completely and totally worthless, he'll join roughly 60% of the 2nd round class who will also be viewed 4 years from now as as wasted pick. Id like to throw my darts somewhere else given where the squad is, but lets not sit here and pretend that 2nd round picks are anything but a mildly better lottery ticket.

If he's turns out to be good, the eagles can move him for a future first.
I actually like the player and value in a vacuum... if the Jags made that pick in that spot, it'd be a slam dunk for them. The only question is whether the eagles could have done more to help the team win now. But the organisation appears to be forever content with keeping their eyes firmly on the future
Taking a player superfluous to needs in the 2nd round with the idea of trading him for a future 1st round is a very curious strategy. :shock:
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NFL Thread

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Botman wrote:I am loathe to defend the pick because i dont think it's what should have been done, but the criticism of it is certainly starting to swing too far in the one direction.

If Hurts is completely and totally worthless, he'll join roughly 60% of the 2nd round class who will also be viewed 4 years from now as as wasted pick. Id like to throw my darts somewhere else given where the squad is, but lets not sit here and pretend that 2nd round picks are anything but a mildly better lottery ticket.

If he's turns out to be good, the eagles can move him for a future first.
I actually like the player and value in a vacuum... if the Jags made that pick in that spot, it'd be a slam dunk for them. The only question is whether the eagles could have done more to help the team win now. But the organisation appears to be forever content with keeping their eyes firmly on the future
I think this is a classic case of a fan base not liking a pick, but than pushing back when fans of other teams bag the pick. It happens all the time - last year’s example was Daniel Jones. Giants fans didn’t want him at 6, but when you hear others bag it, the natural reaction is to defend the move made by your org. The point on keeping an eye on the future... by the time Hurt’s rookie deal is up, you would’ve only had 8 seasons of Carson Wentz. This isn’t like the Packers picking the potential successor for a 37 year old Rodgers. And flipping Hurts for a first rounder? I’ll believe that when I see it


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Re: NFL Thread

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I can't see how Hurts is even going to get the opportunity to show he's worth a 1st round pick in a trade. It would need Wentz to have a decent stint on the sideline.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Northern Raider wrote: April 26, 2020, 11:43 am
Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 11:36 am
Matt wrote: April 25, 2020, 4:24 pm @the bone,
@Botman,
You guys going to do a wrap up of today?
TBH i only sort of go about 50 deep in this draft. Havent really gone deeper this year. Usually i use downtime at work to do that, but i was busy home schooling this year :lol:

So no wraps up. Im just now trying to get a baring on the guys the eagles took, most of which ive not seen a thing from
Day 3 is about 150 cases of "Who the **** is this ****". Normally done and dusted before I crawl out of bed. I get up and scan through the Phins picks and read the reports. After that I look for any names I know among the rest.
That was a day 2 Q.

Outside the 4th Rd, who are all 'sliders', there is a lot of who the F is that on day 3
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Matt »

the bone wrote: April 26, 2020, 12:57 pm
Botman wrote:I am loathe to defend the pick because i dont think it's what should have been done, but the criticism of it is certainly starting to swing too far in the one direction.

If Hurts is completely and totally worthless, he'll join roughly 60% of the 2nd round class who will also be viewed 4 years from now as as wasted pick. Id like to throw my darts somewhere else given where the squad is, but lets not sit here and pretend that 2nd round picks are anything but a mildly better lottery ticket.

If he's turns out to be good, the eagles can move him for a future first.
I actually like the player and value in a vacuum... if the Jags made that pick in that spot, it'd be a slam dunk for them. The only question is whether the eagles could have done more to help the team win now. But the organisation appears to be forever content with keeping their eyes firmly on the future
I think this is a classic case of a fan base not liking a pick, but than pushing back when fans of other teams bag the pick. It happens all the time - last year’s example was Daniel Jones. Giants fans didn’t want him at 6, but when you hear others bag it, the natural reaction is to defend the move made by your org. The point on keeping an eye on the future... by the time Hurt’s rookie deal is up, you would’ve only had 8 seasons of Carson Wentz. This isn’t like the Packers picking the potential successor for a 37 year old Rodgers. And flipping Hurts for a first rounder? I’ll believe that when I see it


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Sorry, but this is totally in the Packers trading up for Love category. Both teams should have done what the Bills and Colts did and wait a bit longer. As was mentioned on the call, lots of teams have QBs, and the ones that didn't drafted them in Rd 1. They weren't running off the board.

Eagles went LB, S, double down on T and more WR help after the QB.

Options at 2, that went in the 2nd:
WRs: Mims, Jefferson,
T: Cleveland
S: Chinn (Davis 4th in the 3rd)
LB: Uche, Gay Jr (Wilson was 1st in the 3rd)

I can see Hurts still there in the 3rd. And if he isn't, at least u still have options with Eason and Fromm at #103.

Now... if Packers also didnt go crazy, more options for both.
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Re: NFL Thread

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According to the Cowboys beat writers Badass and Anae are steals.

Anae is a "consensus All-American pass rusher" and 2 time all conference. 29.5 career sacks in 3yrs at Utah. A slow 40 is apparently the issue, but shouldn't have fallen to mid 5th.

Badass (Tyler Biadasz) won the 2019 Rimington Award winner, given to the best center in the nation. Last pick of the 4th, sounds good to me.

EDIT: More info - C Tyler Biadasz, Wisconsin, Grade: B+. Had a first round grade leading up to season but hip and shoulder surgery in back-to-back years plunged stock. If he's healthy, this is an A+ pick. Not very athletic, but neither was fellow Wisconsin C Travis Frederick. Didn't test because of scope on shoulder this spring. Stock badly impacted.

Our 4th Rd corner, Robinson, likes to block punts. 4yrs at Tulsa, 1 block each yr.

CBS opinion:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/new ... th-falter/
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Re: NFL Thread

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Already at work with the free agents, Cowboys have already had confirmation via player twitter accounts for:

Aaron Parker - WR, Rhode Island
Stephen Guidry - WR, Mississippi State

Sean McKeon - TE, Michigan
Charlie Taumoepeau - TE, Portland State

Terence Steele - OT, Texas Tech

Rico Dowdle - RB, South Carolina
Sewo Olonilua - RB, TCU

Ladarius Hamilton - EDGE, North Texas
Ron'Dell Carter - EDGE, James Madison

Garrett Marino - DL, UAB

Francis Bernard - LB, Utah

Luther Kirk - DB, Illinois State
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Re: NFL Thread

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Northern Raider wrote: April 26, 2020, 1:05 pm I can't see how Hurts is even going to get the opportunity to show he's worth a 1st round pick in a trade. It would need Wentz to have a decent stint on the sideline.
Wentz will barely play a lick of pre season. He’ll get the lions share of snaps there I’m tipping
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 3:27 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 26, 2020, 1:05 pm I can't see how Hurts is even going to get the opportunity to show he's worth a 1st round pick in a trade. It would need Wentz to have a decent stint on the sideline.
Wentz will barely play a lick of pre season. He’ll get the lions share of snaps there I’m tipping
Honestly can't remember last time a QB was traded for a 1st round pick. Would need to show some **** amazing **** in those preseason games to convince a team to pay that kind of price.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Northern Raider wrote: April 26, 2020, 4:01 pm
Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 3:27 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 26, 2020, 1:05 pm I can't see how Hurts is even going to get the opportunity to show he's worth a 1st round pick in a trade. It would need Wentz to have a decent stint on the sideline.
Wentz will barely play a lick of pre season. He’ll get the lions share of snaps there I’m tipping
Honestly can't remember last time a QB was traded for a 1st round pick. Would need to show some **** amazing **** in those preseason games to convince a team to pay that kind of price.
I can. It was the Eagles, shipping Bradford to the Vikings for a first. It helped them get Wentz. Pretty significant deal.The Pats got a very high 2 for Garaopalo.

Im not saying that's absolutely 10000% going to happen. It's likely not. It's likely he'll be trash like 60% of the guys who just got draft.
Im saying that's part of the value you get... if you hit on it and he's good, and clearly the Eagles think he is (Saban and Riley also big fans, which arent bad references to carry) then it is a valuable trade chip. Be that for picks or players. More so than a 2nd. If he sucks, then he can go and join Arcega-Whiteside, Sidney Jones and Eric Rowe.
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Re: NFL Thread

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the bone wrote: April 26, 2020, 12:57 pm think this is a classic case of a fan base not liking a pick, but than pushing back when fans of other teams bag the pick. It happens all the time - last year’s example was Daniel Jones. Giants fans didn’t want him at 6, but when you hear others bag it, the natural reaction is to defend the move made by your org. The point on keeping an eye on the future... by the time Hurt’s rookie deal is up, you would’ve only had 8 seasons of Carson Wentz. This isn’t like the Packers picking the potential successor for a 37 year old Rodgers. And flipping Hurts for a first rounder? I’ll believe that when I see it
Na, that ain't it. I think my posting history here on the Raiders and Eagles shows i dont really think that way. Im pretty comfortable being on an opinion island and im more than comfortable eviscerating my teams when i think it fits. ****, I have done, and will continue to eviscerate them on not moving up to get Lamb, probably for the next decade.

And i was pretty hot about it yesterday. It's not the pick i wanted, or thought was best. Because i think this team is ready to make another SB run, i'd have liked to seen the team do something that supports that push.

But after cooling down, and seeing what they did in the back end of the draft... a few things:
- As frustrating as it is in the moment, the eagles never have drafted soley for need since handing the keys back to Howie and it's worked out pretty well for us mostly. We took a LT last year who barely played.
- The eagles won a SB with a back up QB. He was the MVP in that game. The organisation has gone on record as saying they dont even call it the back up QB in their building. They call it QB2. So they value this position more than most others. It's in this teams DNA to have a strong QB room. And given the way Wentz plays, it's hard to argue. I can not like it now, but i didnt complain when valuing that spot won us a SB.
- The Eagles did actually do a lot to help Wentz. They got 3 WRs who can all absolutely fly. And the spent a high pick last year providing him with a stud RB. They continue to pour resources into the OL to keep him clean, and the best TE duo in the league. They also revamped their medical team, so you'd hope that will see Jackson and Jeffery seeing the field a little more... if that holds, the weapons are actually there.
- The eagles are one of the more creative teams in the league, i dont for one second believe this guy is being drafted as a back up QB only. They're going to find ways to get him involved. And maybe he'll suck like JJAW, or maybe we wont.

Again, im not going to sit here and tell you this is a pick i like. i'd have perferred to go with Mims. But to say it gives absolutely no value whatsoever is just plainly incorrect
Last edited by Botman on April 26, 2020, 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NFL Thread

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https://www.foxsports.com.au/nfl/nfl-dr ... c66f488a3c

YAAAAY!!!

Howie drops the ball.

As I said on day 1, Falcons sucked.

The Raiders competency is as expected
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 4:33 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 26, 2020, 4:01 pm
Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 3:27 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 26, 2020, 1:05 pm I can't see how Hurts is even going to get the opportunity to show he's worth a 1st round pick in a trade. It would need Wentz to have a decent stint on the sideline.
Wentz will barely play a lick of pre season. He’ll get the lions share of snaps there I’m tipping
Honestly can't remember last time a QB was traded for a 1st round pick. Would need to show some **** amazing **** in those preseason games to convince a team to pay that kind of price.
I can. It was the Eagles, shipping Bradford to the Vikings for a first. It helped them get Wentz. Pretty significant deal.The Pats got a very high 2 for Garaopalo.

Im not saying that's absolutely 10000% going to happen. It's likely not. It's likely he'll be trash like 60% of the guys who just got draft.
Im saying that's part of the value you get... if you hit on it and he's good, and clearly the Eagles think he is (Saban and Riley also big fans, which arent bad references to carry) then it is a valuable trade chip. Be that for picks or players. More so than a 2nd. If he sucks, then he can go and join Arcega-Whiteside, Sidney Jones and Eric Rowe.
The only way he'll establish any sort of trade value commensurate to the price paid is if Wentz goes down and he gets a decent crack at the starting job. Even accepting the way it's being rationalised this pick will be a break even at best.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Depends on your philosophy on team building. It’s the old Charlie Casserley quote about the most important person in the organisation being your qb and the second most important person in the organisation is the back up QB.

If all we get out of Hurts is a good back up QB, fans like me will say it was a bust pick and yet I can guarantee you the eagles as a org will view that as great pick.

Again, I can disagree with them all I like on how they value the back up QB position but them valuing it highly won them a SB.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Matt wrote: April 26, 2020, 4:38 pm https://www.foxsports.com.au/nfl/nfl-dr ... c66f488a3c

YAAAAY!!!

Howie drops the ball.

As I said on day 1, Falcons sucked.

The Raiders competency is as expected
I started reading thinking they were just giving everyone A ratings. Then realised it was descending order. :lol:
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Re: NFL Thread

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That was the guy that Lock and Haskins above Murray in his QB rankings last year :lol:

I’ll wait for Evan Silva and Warren Sharp draft grades.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 5:12 pm Depends on your philosophy on team building. It’s the old Charlie Casserley quote about the most important person in the organisation being your qb and the second most important person in the organisation is the back up QB.

If all we get out of Hurts is a good back up QB, fans like me will say it was a bust pick and yet I can guarantee you the eagles as a org will view that as great pick.

Again, I can disagree with them all I like on how they value the back up QB position but them valuing it highly won them a SB.
Such a move would suggest they are very comfortable with the rest of their starters then.

Not as bad as the Packers though. Their superbowl window is still wide open yet they spent all their high picks on projected back ups. Thought they would be looking for players who could provide immediate upgrades.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 5:19 pm That was the guy that Lock and Haskins above Murray in his QB rankings last year :lol:

I’ll wait for Evan Silva and Warren Sharp draft grades.
I'll still wait a couple of years before passing judgement on the winner of the QB class of 2019. Murray no doubt he early leader but the race has only just begun.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Funny you say that, Howie and Doug have gone on record all lead up to the draft saying they like their team

Including my boi JJAW... :lol:

I don’t share their optimism at wr, but they did address it over the draft and this time next year they’ll have a ton of salary off their books with Jeffery and Djax gone

So maybe they think they’ll be ok this year with Raegor, Jeffery, Jackson, that little sexy stud Greg Ward, and the TE’s + Sanders

If they don’t, and Mims or one of the other wrs is good, they’ll certainly hear about it on sports radio though
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Re: NFL Thread

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Northern Raider wrote: April 26, 2020, 5:32 pm
Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 5:19 pm That was the guy that Lock and Haskins above Murray in his QB rankings last year :lol:

I’ll wait for Evan Silva and Warren Sharp draft grades.
I'll still wait a couple of years before passing judgement on the winner of the QB class of 2019. Murray no doubt he early leader but the race has only just begun.
I’m gonna go ahead and rule out Haskins from the race though. I feel good about saying it ain’t him
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 5:33 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 26, 2020, 5:32 pm
Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 5:19 pm That was the guy that Lock and Haskins above Murray in his QB rankings last year :lol:

I’ll wait for Evan Silva and Warren Sharp draft grades.
I'll still wait a couple of years before passing judgement on the winner of the QB class of 2019. Murray no doubt he early leader but the race has only just begun.
I’m gonna go ahead and rule out Haskins from the race though. I feel good about saying it ain’t him
To be fair on Haskins, he does play for the Skins. Up against it from the start.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 5:32 pm Funny you say that, Howie and Doug have gone on record all lead up to the draft saying they like their team

Including my boi JJAW... :lol:

I don’t share their optimism at wr, but they did address it over the draft and this time next year they’ll have a ton of salary off their books with Jeffery and Djax gone

So maybe they think they’ll be ok this year with Raegor, Jeffery, Jackson, that little sexy stud Greg Ward, and the TE’s + Sanders

If they don’t, and Mims or one of the other wrs is good, they’ll certainly hear about it on sports radio though
Lost to the Dolphins. Nobody could be totally comfortable with a roster that managed that. :lol:
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Re: NFL Thread

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We’ve been the recipient of a Fitzmagic bomb more times than I care to remember.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 5:44 pm We’ve been the recipient of a Fitzmagic bomb more times than I care to remember.
Fitzmagic has carved out a pretty good NFL career for a 7th round pick. Interesting what he does when he hangs up the boots. The guy has a Harvard Economics degree. Not too many NFL player that that kind of academic chops. Unconfirmed he scored a perfect 50 on the Wonderlic. Would make sense getting employed by the league in an administrative role.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Hmmmm he went to Harvard? Wow.
Surprising the commentators never mentioned that in his games


Fitz is one of the funnest QB i've ever watched play. His highs are so **** fun and his lows are stunningly entertaining.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Northern Raider wrote: April 26, 2020, 5:16 pm
Matt wrote: April 26, 2020, 4:38 pm https://www.foxsports.com.au/nfl/nfl-dr ... c66f488a3c

YAAAAY!!!

Howie drops the ball.

As I said on day 1, Falcons sucked.

The Raiders competency is as expected
I started reading thinking they were just giving everyone A ratings. Then realised it was descending order. :lol:
I read one the other day where the worst grade was a B-. 75% were A's. It was a joke
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Re: NFL Thread

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Northern Raider wrote: April 26, 2020, 6:16 pm
Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 5:44 pm We’ve been the recipient of a Fitzmagic bomb more times than I care to remember.
Fitzmagic has carved out a pretty good NFL career for a 7th round pick. Interesting what he does when he hangs up the boots. The guy has a Harvard Economics degree. Not too many NFL player that that kind of academic chops. Unconfirmed he scored a perfect 50 on the Wonderlic. Would make sense getting employed by the league in an administrative role.
Here's hoping for DiNucci then
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 7:00 pm Hmmmm he went to Harvard? Wow.
Surprising the commentators never mentioned that in his games


Fitz is one of the funnest QB i've ever watched play. His highs are so **** fun and his lows are stunningly entertaining.
A game to game bang or bust.
What i love about him, you can be down by 3 scores and he might just throw it round the yard and make up the difference... or make it a 50pt gap with INTs
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Re: NFL Thread

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Re: NFL Thread

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Chad out there like Oprah with his A's
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by the bone »

Botman wrote:
the bone wrote: April 26, 2020, 12:57 pm think this is a classic case of a fan base not liking a pick, but than pushing back when fans of other teams bag the pick. It happens all the time - last year’s example was Daniel Jones. Giants fans didn’t want him at 6, but when you hear others bag it, the natural reaction is to defend the move made by your org. The point on keeping an eye on the future... by the time Hurt’s rookie deal is up, you would’ve only had 8 seasons of Carson Wentz. This isn’t like the Packers picking the potential successor for a 37 year old Rodgers. And flipping Hurts for a first rounder? I’ll believe that when I see it
Na, that ain't it. I think my posting history here on the Raiders and Eagles shows i dont really think that way. Im pretty comfortable being on an opinion island and im more than comfortable eviscerating my teams when i think it fits. ****, I have done, and will continue to eviscerate them on not moving up to get Lamb, probably for the next decade.

And i was pretty hot about it yesterday. It's not the pick i wanted, or thought was best. Because i think this team is ready to make another SB run, i'd have liked to seen the team do something that supports that push.

But after cooling down, and seeing what they did in the back end of the draft... a few things:
- As frustrating as it is in the moment, the eagles never have drafted soley for need since handing the keys back to Howie and it's worked out pretty well for us mostly. We took a LT last year who barely played.
- The eagles won a SB with a back up QB. He was the MVP in that game. The organisation has gone on record as saying they dont even call it the back up QB in their building. They call it QB2. So they value this position more than most others. It's in this teams DNA to have a strong QB room. And given the way Wentz plays, it's hard to argue. I can not like it now, but i didnt complain when valuing that spot won us a SB.
- The Eagles did actually do a lot to help Wentz. They got 3 WRs who can all absolutely fly. And the spent a high pick last year providing him with a stud RB. They continue to pour resources into the OL to keep him clean, and the best TE duo in the league. They also revamped their medical team, so you'd hope that will see Jackson and Jeffery seeing the field a little more... if that holds, the weapons are actually there.
- The eagles are one of the more creative teams in the league, i dont for one second believe this guy is being drafted as a back up QB only. They're going to find ways to get him involved. And maybe he'll suck like JJAW, or maybe we wont.

Again, im not going to sit here and tell you this is a pick i like. i'd have perferred to go with Mims. But to say it gives absolutely no value whatsoever is just plainly incorrect
I don’t think anyone is saying the pick gives no value whatsoever.


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the bone
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote:
Northern Raider wrote: April 26, 2020, 4:01 pm
Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 3:27 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 26, 2020, 1:05 pm I can't see how Hurts is even going to get the opportunity to show he's worth a 1st round pick in a trade. It would need Wentz to have a decent stint on the sideline.
Wentz will barely play a lick of pre season. He’ll get the lions share of snaps there I’m tipping
Honestly can't remember last time a QB was traded for a 1st round pick. Would need to show some **** amazing **** in those preseason games to convince a team to pay that kind of price.
I can. It was the Eagles, shipping Bradford to the Vikings for a first. It helped them get Wentz. Pretty significant deal.The Pats got a very high 2 for Garaopalo.

Im not saying that's absolutely 10000% going to happen. It's likely not. It's likely he'll be trash like 60% of the guys who just got draft.
Im saying that's part of the value you get... if you hit on it and he's good, and clearly the Eagles think he is (Saban and Riley also big fans, which arent bad references to carry) then it is a valuable trade chip. Be that for picks or players. More so than a 2nd. If he sucks, then he can go and join Arcega-Whiteside, Sidney Jones and Eric Rowe.
Bradford was a former #1 overall pick that had 63 starts at the time of that trade. You’re not getting a first round pick back for Jalen Hurts


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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: April 26, 2020, 9:25 pm Chad out there like Oprah with his A's
Yup. Pretty generous
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Re: NFL Thread

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Winston to Saints. 1yr deal
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Re: NFL Thread

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Handy backup for Brees after losing Bridgewater. Winston will also get to learn behind one of the smartest QBs in the game. I imagine a 1 year deal is to leave the door open for a starter's contract beyond next season. Whether its with Saints or another team is to be determined.
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