The Cricket Thread

[Matt]

It's a real what could have been match. To go so close to winning with the way some of the top order batted? They need a good kick up the ****.

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If only the batsmen had batted as well as the bowlers batted.

Agreed gents

[Azza]

Pujara probably the difference in the match. But yep, if the top 6 had shown the guts and application the bottom 4 had, we'd have probably stolen it.

[-TW-]

That was a real Raiders performance

Ahead in the game, get behind then come up just short with a lot of what ifs.

[-PJ-]

Our top 7 need a rocket.

Not good enough.

[-PJ-]

Our bowling quartet nearly got us home and you can never blame them for falling short when the blokes who hold a bat for a living are playing like chumps.

Finch isn't a test player.
Marcus Harris was very solid..good debut
Koala was poor..his 2nd dig dismissal was poor.
SMarsh just won't go away..when we want him to fail he scores runs..when we need runs from him he fails.
Handscomb..I don't know...his technique is frightening..is he the best option ?
Head.. I like him
Paine..as captain he gets a start..is he the best keeper in the country ?

Do we need a dasher at the top ?

What do we think about Renshaw and Harris opening ? Will it work ?

[-TW-]

If they're going to pick Finch he needs to be at 5

He's a good starter against spin, but opening in test cricket vs Odis is a different kettle of fish

[Dusty]

I’d go with:

Renshaw
Harris / Finch
Khawaja
S Marsh
Handscomb
Head
Paine
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood


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[-PJ-]

The further we can drop Flinch down the order the better..

Below Pat Cummins would be preferable.

[bonehead]

moises henriques in for handscombe, burns for finch.

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[julian87]

The biggest change in junior club cricket in the last 3 years has been an introduction of retiring after a certain number of balls faces rather than runs. I don’t like it tbh. It means the strong kids just hit out. When it was based on runs those kids would often have to adapt and lengthen their innings, building partnerships to make their time in the middle go further to winning. That taught those kids something and in turn those kids taught their less talented team mates something too. I’m obviously in the minority here because it was put into place after an extensive review.

Just on a personal note I run a premier league side on the North Coast of NSW. In regional cricket you need to get more out of your cricketers early as they inevitably move on at school leaving age. I’ve noticed a huge, huge difference in how juniors (14-18) bat over the past 5 years especially. Fewer batters play with the patience and respect to the opposition required. Those who do are the ones who’ve excelled at that level.

Its like many things these days. In an effort to give everybody a go we are watering down the learning curve. I can appreciate giving all kids a fair chance but that only encourages involvement to the detriment of achievement. Success is not properly rewarded until much later in the development cycle. By that stage its often too late as the motivation has been eroded.

Yeah there has to be retirement rules in junior club cricket though. I just don’t like the current set up.

[julian87]

Our top 7 need a rocket.

Not good enough.

They don’t need a rocket. They’re just not good enough.

Compare the 2 teams. No matter what 6 we pick they won’t be good enough compared to India while they’re forced to play without Smith and Warner.

[T_R]

Where's this generations Border or Waugh? The guy who'll finish the day on 65 off 300 and count it a job well done?

Some of those shots over the last couple of days were unforgiveable.

[-PJ-]

Cummins faced 120+ balls. Most of them against Ashwin..who bowled 50 overs.

If he can do it, Koala can do it.

That's what I'm on about Julien. I don't give a toss who's not playing.

I know its tough, it's test cricket but cmon..our four bowlers scored 100 runs between them.

[Northern Raider]

Our bowling quartet nearly got us home and you can never blame them for falling short when the blokes who hold a bat for a living are playing like chumps.

Finch isn't a test player.
Marcus Harris was very solid..good debut
Koala was poor..his 2nd dig dismissal was poor.
SMarsh just won't go away..when we want him to fail he scores runs..when we need runs from him he fails.
Handscomb..I don't know...his technique is frightening..is he the best option ?
Head.. I like him
Paine..as captain he gets a start..is he the best keeper in the country ?

Do we need a dasher at the top ?

What do we think about Renshaw and Harris opening ? Will it work ?

The big take away from this is PJ likes Head.

[julian87]

Cummins faced 120+ balls. Most of them against Ashwin..who bowled 50 overs.

If he can do it, Koala can do it.

That's what I'm on about Julien. I don't give a toss who's not playing.

I know its tough, it's test cricket but cmon..our four bowlers scored 100 runs between them.

I love Uzzie. Have from the start. Asking him to all of a sudden absolutely carry the team is a tall ask though. I mean he’s batting behind Aaron **** Finch. I think/hope a faster pitch at Perth might help him though.

Australia have 2 batsmen in the side who average over 40 in first class cricket.

India’s 3-7 all average over 50 in first class cricket.

If you picked a composite side atm Khawaja would be the only batsman considered. He’d make the team over Rohit.

India’s spinner has more test centuries than our keeper and number has has first class centuries.

[Matt]

That was a real Raiders performance

Ahead in the game, get behind then come up just short with a lot of what ifs.

[Matt]

moises henriques in for handscombe, burns for finch.

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Ive never been convinced by Henriques. And its not like his record is any better than any of the current guys.
batting
1st class avg = 34.49
Test = 23.42

bowling
1st = 32.01
Test = 82

Burns on the other hand has been good for about 18 months now.
1st class = 40.58
Test = 36.76

This is better than most of the other options we have now.

[Matt]

Our bowling quartet nearly got us home and you can never blame them for falling short when the blokes who hold a bat for a living are playing like chumps.

Finch isn't a test player.
Marcus Harris was very solid..good debut
Koala was poor..his 2nd dig dismissal was poor.
SMarsh just won't go away..when we want him to fail he scores runs..when we need runs from him he fails.
Handscomb..I don't know...his technique is frightening..is he the best option ?
Head.. I like him
Paine..as captain he gets a start..is he the best keeper in the country ?

Do we need a dasher at the top ?

What do we think about Renshaw and Harris opening ? Will it work ?

The big take away from this is PJ likes Head.

[Matt]

Cummins faced 120+ balls. Most of them against Ashwin..who bowled 50 overs.

If he can do it, Koala can do it.

That's what I'm on about Julien. I don't give a toss who's not playing.

I know its tough, it's test cricket but cmon..our four bowlers scored 100 runs between them.

I love Uzzie. Have from the start. Asking him to all of a sudden absolutely carry the team is a tall ask though. I mean he’s batting behind Aaron **** Finch. I think/hope a faster pitch at Perth might help him though.

Australia have 2 batsmen in the side who average over 40 in first class cricket.

India’s 3-7 all average over 50 in first class cricket.

If you picked a composite side atm Khawaja would be the only batsman considered. He’d make the team over Rohit.

India’s spinner has more test centuries than our keeper and number has has first class centuries.

Exactly. We are in deep deep trouble ATM. A friend of mine posted this on FB yesterday.

"No current Aussie (in this team) has a batting avg near 50....Look up (Test avg and First Class avg) Hayden (51 and 52), Langer (45 and 50), Ponting (52 and 56), SWaugh (51 and 52), Clarke (49 and 47) etc....ALL hovering around or surpassing 50. Current players Test and First Class averages:
Finch 32 and 36
Harris 26 and 35
Khawaja 43 and 44 (not bad)
S Marsh 35 and 41
Handscomb 42 and 39 (not bad for a No 5)
Head 35 and 37. An allrounder ? that hasn't bowled in a test and his FC Avg is bloody 65!!!!!
Paine 37 and 30
M Marsh 26 and 32. Bowling 42!!!!!! and 32 (No wonder he is out)
Who do they pick??
Bancroft (31 and 38) is no saviour either.
Renshaw (34 and 34)

Mennie and Ferguson have played a SINGLE test and failed or not been given a proper chance and neither have these guys.
Maddison: 3 test with a 7 Avg !!!!
Cartwright: 2 tests No wickets and averages of 27 Test and 36 FC.
Labuschagne: 2 tests avg 20 and 38 with bowling avgs of 22 (7 wickets not bad ) and 48
Joe Burns: 14 Tests 37 and 40 avgs

The two best, by a country mile, are out:
Warner (48 and 49)
Smith (61 and 57) WOW!!!"

[Matt]

Where's this generations Border or Waugh? The guy who'll finish the day on 65 off 300 and count it a job well done?

Some of those shots over the last couple of days were unforgiveable.

TBH, I feel like Renshaw and maybe Bancroft have a bit of that in them. No player bats that slow anymore, but these 2 have been know to really dig in. The issues is, you need scorers around them. ATM, our options arent good enough.

[Matt]

CA's issues ATM are the best 2 batsmen of this generation are currently suspended, and quite frankly, I suspect they are also losing the edge playing hit and giggle cricket. These 2 kept us in games, and won us games.

Take Kohli out of India and its a very different side. Take Root out England, Williamson out of NZ etc, team cant make enough runs without their star. This is pretty obvious though.

So, back to the issues at home...

Renshaw - TBH, his form inst good. BUT, a 300 in 1st grade shouldnt be sneezed at. He was also a gun in country cricket this past season. Also, its not like he was totally sucking at International level. His Test avg is 33.47, and has a top score of 184. 1 in 5 innings he passes 50. He was going through a bad trot before he was dropped, so that was probably fine. He isnt a superstar, but he is still young enough to develop into something, and he bats time, unlike anyone else in our team.

Maxwell - Is he the new Brad Hodge/ Stuart MacGill? A bit on the nose/ out of favor with the selectors? Cant get a run no matter what he does. NOW... While his Test avg is a poor 26, his 1st class avg is 41. No one in Shield cricket with more than 10 games has an avg of 50, he is 1 over very very few players in Shield cricket to avg 40. Why isnt he in the side? Are CA cutting off their nose to spite their face?

Finch - I get it, they are trying to go with the guy who is the closest match to Warner, BUT... he is no Warner. Only in T20 cricket does Finch out bat Bull/ The Reverend. He bats down the order for Victoria coz he cant survive against a moving ball. No surprises that Sharma has been all over him. Now that we have picked him, and picked him to open, I think CA have made a rod for their back.

SMarsh - I still think this guy is a poor mans Mark Waugh. He wastes his talent. He should avg far more in both 1st class and Test cricket. Took him far too long to go to spec savers, and now even contacts wont save him. Surely even his name and state of birth wont save him much longer, but I know that 60 is a real pain!

Paine - He is past his best cricket, and wasnt even the 1st choice keeper in Tassie when he got the job. I dont like him as captain, but Im not sure I have a better option either. Our keeper batsmen options arent good. Wade is a backwards step, but is avging vey high this yr. He also fulfills the experience and leadership qualities of Paine. His glovework isnt as good though, despite taking them ahead of Paine for his state. Carey looks a short form specialist to me, but hope he proves me wrong; as does Pierson for QLD. Young Dooran looks like he might be ok, but still struggles for consistency.

I think Harris, Handscombe and Head are the best options we have ATM in their positions. These guys all look like Avg Test cricketers IMO, so if they avg 30-40 thats about all we can expect. If Burns does come in, Id add him to this list too.

At the end of the day, batsmen in this country arent banging down the door for selection ATM either. There are plenty with promise, but none that are consistent. The talent pool just isnt what it was 10 yrs ago, let alone 20 or 30.

[Azza]

You can say Khawaja is talented all you want but for a senior batsman his situational awareness was really poor in this match. Rather than ticking the scoreboard over with singles he got bogged down which put pressure on him and it was only a matter of time till he ended up playing a risky shot as a result. Just not good enough.

[Matt]

You can say Khawaja is talented all you want but for a senior batsman his situational awareness was really poor in this match. Rather than ticking the scoreboard over with singles he got bogged down which put pressure on him and it was only a matter of time till he ended up playing a risky shot as a result. Just not good enough.

Yes.
BUT, at this level, Koala is the guy who bats around a Warner and/ or Smith.
In the current team, he is the guy to bat around. He isnt up to that at this level.

[Azza]

That doesn't affect my comment. It's a basic skill for a batsman at that level to just tick the scoreboard over when boundaries are hard to come by. He wasn't doing it.

[gerg]

Our bowling quartet nearly got us home and you can never blame them for falling short when the blokes who hold a bat for a living are playing like chumps.

Finch isn't a test player.
Marcus Harris was very solid..good debut
Koala was poor..his 2nd dig dismissal was poor.
SMarsh just won't go away..when we want him to fail he scores runs..when we need runs from him he fails.
Handscomb..I don't know...his technique is frightening..is he the best option ?
Head.. I like him
Paine..as captain he gets a start..is he the best keeper in the country ?

Do we need a dasher at the top ?

What do we think about Renshaw and Harris opening ? Will it work ?

Handscome.... his technique was picked apart by either England or South Africa years ago and he was dropped and he has changed absolutely nothing. He bats too bloody close to his stumps. Any bowler is licking his chops at the prospect of bowling to him. I appreciate many successful batsmen have quirky techniques but no amount of skill can counter that flaw.

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[-TW-]

These guys need to learn how to play old school cricket..

There's nothing wrong with going at 2 an over, they all had to try and hit out when they got tied down

[Matt]

That doesn't affect my comment. It's a basic skill for a batsman at that level to just tick the scoreboard over when boundaries are hard to come by. He wasn't doing it.

Thats why my 1st line was Yes.

[Matt]

These guys need to learn how to play old school cricket..

There's nothing wrong with going at 2 an over, they all had to try and hit out when they got tied down

Agreed

[Matt]

Our bowling quartet nearly got us home and you can never blame them for falling short when the blokes who hold a bat for a living are playing like chumps.

Finch isn't a test player.
Marcus Harris was very solid..good debut
Koala was poor..his 2nd dig dismissal was poor.
SMarsh just won't go away..when we want him to fail he scores runs..when we need runs from him he fails.
Handscomb..I don't know...his technique is frightening..is he the best option ?
Head.. I like him
Paine..as captain he gets a start..is he the best keeper in the country ?

Do we need a dasher at the top ?

What do we think about Renshaw and Harris opening ? Will it work ?

Handscome.... his technique was picked apart by either England or South Africa years ago and he was dropped and he has changed absolutely nothing. He bats too bloody close to his stumps. Any bowler is licking his chops at the prospect of bowling to him. I appreciate many successful batsmen have quirky techniques but no amount of skill can counter that flaw.

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Checkout this website. http://www.howstat.com. Great stats for international matches only - Test, ODI and T20.

As a layman, top order batsmen get dismissed in which mode of dismissal the most? It would have to be caught, followed by LBW. Handscomb is no different. However, he does get bowled far too often for a top order batsmen. He only has 1 hit wicket too, which you would think is higher given where he stands. Plus, that technique has him with a 1st class avg of 39, and a Test avg of 41, so its working for him. I wont say he is the least of our problems, but he is certainly further down the list.
Here are his numbers in Tests: http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statisti ... yerID=4558

Ive also looked up Kohli. A good technique. Caught and LBW are the highest here too. Bowled is much closer to what Id expect too, very low. Not he also has a hit wicket.
Here are his modes of dismissal: http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statisti ... yerID=3600

[RedRaider]

When Uzi batted for 40 balls for 8 runs I thought he was batting time to keep his wicket preserved for a run at the target the following day. This was Geof Boycott type batting but wearing bowlers down without giving them any encouragement has its place going into the final day. Then he came up with the brain explosion second innings shot proving he did not know his role in this situation. Runs were not important. Wearing down the opposition and taking away the adrenalin of his wicket was required but wasted.

[julian87]

I reckon Khawaja will go big in Perth.

I don’t think Aussie armchair critics are giving the Indian bowlers enough kudos for what they did in Adelaide. I have never, ever seen their seamers bowl with such sustained pressure. They gave Australia nothing. Absolutely nothing. They were a level above what England produced last season. I’d imagine Perth will be conducive for runs once the ball stops swinging though so we’ll see what happens there.

[Azza]

No, not saying the Indians didn't bowl well, they did - but that's when turning over the strike becomes incredibly important when the opportunities for boundaries dry up. That's the art of test cricket batting. Our guys just don't have it.

[julian87]

No, not saying the Indians didn't bowl well, they did - but that's when turning over the strike becomes incredibly important when the opportunities for boundaries dry up. That's the art of test cricket batting. Our guys just don't have it.

Well they obviously don’t have it if they’re not averaging 40 in first class cricket.

[Azza]

Well then it's obvious we're agreeing, aren't we?

[-TW-]

Greg Chappell **** everything..

When guys started getting picked on potential rather than runs on the board it was all over