The Motorsport Thread

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Northern Raider
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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Northern Raider » February 20, 2019, 11:32 am

Coastalraider wrote:
February 20, 2019, 11:13 am
Northern Raider wrote:
February 20, 2019, 10:40 am
F1 testing well under way now. Ferrari putting the foot down and trying to intimidate rivals early. Mercedes not interested and just sandbagging inthe middle of the pack. McLaren and Haas looking a bit more competitive. Gasly breaking his new Red Bull, while bits are breaking off Ricciardo's new Renault.

Its all fun to watch but times and figures don't mean much till lights out in Melbourne in a few weeks time.
Like you said fun to watch but not really indicative.

Interestingly, I was listening to Gary Andersons day 1 review, and he was almost disappointed that from viewing on track every car looked well refined already. The only real variance was responsiveness due to fuel load, or corner speed due to better funded teams having higher levels of overall downforce - but it doesn't look like anyone has really got it wrong this year with the new regs.

Times will start to be a bit more relevant mid week 2.
Yep, testing is exactly that - testing. All teams are tinkering with almost an infinite number of variables. End of next week's session will be a better guide, albeit still somewhat misleading.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Rick » February 20, 2019, 11:40 am

The Kelly’s would be nuts not to get a couple of other teams on board to make it an attractive option.

WAU logically would transition to a Camero with their HSV links and I think a partnership between KR and them would make it worth while.

Supercars needs to do something to even up the amount of cars on the track. Currently it’s the old Commodore Cup with 4 invites from Nissan and 6 from Ford.


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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by -TW- » February 20, 2019, 2:36 pm

Can't say I'm a massive fan of the Mustang

Only one that looks any good is Cam Waters Monster Energy one

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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Coastalraider » February 21, 2019, 8:56 am

Rick wrote:
February 20, 2019, 11:40 am
The Kelly’s would be nuts not to get a couple of other teams on board to make it an attractive option.

WAU logically would transition to a Camero with their HSV links and I think a partnership between KR and them would make it worth while.

Supercars needs to do something to even up the amount of cars on the track. Currently it’s the old Commodore Cup with 4 invites from Nissan and 6 from Ford.


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Without outside investment from a manufacturer it becomes a near impossible task. Sponsorship revenue is getting harder to come by, so outlaying a really significant sum to design, create and mass produce a completely new chassis and potentially engine is not worth return, especially when they have the option of picking parts off the shelf right now, with existing infrastructure to support it.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad » February 21, 2019, 3:53 pm

Yeah I agree. I’m trying to find the article, but Todd was saying KR are set up as a manufacturing and homologation team, so resorting to picking Holden or Ford parts off the shelf goes against what they’re about.
It’s increased my respect for the team, and I really hope they can get something.
Found the article https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/02/16/ke ... -for-2020/


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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Coastalraider » February 21, 2019, 4:18 pm

It really is a huge expense in development costs to develop a new model, even if the chassis is technically the same these days. In isolation, look at a front splitter. That has to be digitally designed and CFD tested. Then it potentially goes through wind tunnel testing for drag/downforce levels. Once that gets approved, a ‘plug, or development model needs to be produced so moulds can be made. A production timeline for a splitter is something around 4 - 5 days of laminating and curing, so multiple mounds need to be made in order to produce enough stock for the start of a season - each car would want at least 5 splitters in circulation. Once the finished product is done, mounting brackets must be designed and manufactured, as pick up points will be different to suit the curvature of the new model. This is usually a combination of machining and fabrication, and a spares inventory needs to be produced as well. Every time a new splitter is designed, everything that comes into contact with it must also be redesigned, so radiator ducting, radiator blanking, brake ducting and blanking, and air intake ducting must all follow the same process as the above, with design, plug, manufacture and mounting stages. Plus spares inventory.

Now multiply that for EVERY external part of the car. Bonnet, windscreens, doors, quarter panels, guards, wings, rear bar, rear wing.

That doesn’t touch on the engine if that is required.

While Kelly’s have the infrastructure to support that, the funding to use it is a very different story.

Continuing with the status quo eliminates virtually all of that work, it’s just some minor updates/development work, and keeping a spares quota.

I would love to see another manufacturer represented, but I doubt it could or would be funded independently.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Rick » February 21, 2019, 10:07 pm

Makes you wonder where Tickford and DJRTP would have been this year had Ford not got back on board. Prior to the Mustang being confirmed last year and the way the parity was shaping up I was half expecting the series to end up just being a new Commodore cup. Marketing more towards a battle between teams rather than manufacturers.


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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by bonehead » February 22, 2019, 7:59 am

Gardner quickest on day 2 of pre-season testing in moto2, good signs.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad » February 22, 2019, 11:35 am

Coastalraider wrote:It really is a huge expense in development costs to develop a new model, even if the chassis is technically the same these days. In isolation, look at a front splitter. That has to be digitally designed and CFD tested. Then it potentially goes through wind tunnel testing for drag/downforce levels. Once that gets approved, a ‘plug, or development model needs to be produced so moulds can be made. A production timeline for a splitter is something around 4 - 5 days of laminating and curing, so multiple mounds need to be made in order to produce enough stock for the start of a season - each car would want at least 5 splitters in circulation. Once the finished product is done, mounting brackets must be designed and manufactured, as pick up points will be different to suit the curvature of the new model. This is usually a combination of machining and fabrication, and a spares inventory needs to be produced as well. Every time a new splitter is designed, everything that comes into contact with it must also be redesigned, so radiator ducting, radiator blanking, brake ducting and blanking, and air intake ducting must all follow the same process as the above, with design, plug, manufacture and mounting stages. Plus spares inventory.

Now multiply that for EVERY external part of the car. Bonnet, windscreens, doors, quarter panels, guards, wings, rear bar, rear wing.

That doesn’t touch on the engine if that is required.

While Kelly’s have the infrastructure to support that, the funding to use it is a very different story.

Continuing with the status quo eliminates virtually all of that work, it’s just some minor updates/development work, and keeping a spares quota.

I would love to see another manufacturer represented, but I doubt it could or would be funded independently.
Very valid points. If they don’t get another manufacturer in, maybe they can keep the manufacturing bug fed by getting into TCR. I’d imagine it’d be cheaper, and keep their staff employed
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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Coastalraider » February 22, 2019, 7:25 pm

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:
February 22, 2019, 11:35 am
Coastalraider wrote:It really is a huge expense in development costs to develop a new model, even if the chassis is technically the same these days. In isolation, look at a front splitter. That has to be digitally designed and CFD tested. Then it potentially goes through wind tunnel testing for drag/downforce levels. Once that gets approved, a ‘plug, or development model needs to be produced so moulds can be made. A production timeline for a splitter is something around 4 - 5 days of laminating and curing, so multiple mounds need to be made in order to produce enough stock for the start of a season - each car would want at least 5 splitters in circulation. Once the finished product is done, mounting brackets must be designed and manufactured, as pick up points will be different to suit the curvature of the new model. This is usually a combination of machining and fabrication, and a spares inventory needs to be produced as well. Every time a new splitter is designed, everything that comes into contact with it must also be redesigned, so radiator ducting, radiator blanking, brake ducting and blanking, and air intake ducting must all follow the same process as the above, with design, plug, manufacture and mounting stages. Plus spares inventory.

Now multiply that for EVERY external part of the car. Bonnet, windscreens, doors, quarter panels, guards, wings, rear bar, rear wing.

That doesn’t touch on the engine if that is required.

While Kelly’s have the infrastructure to support that, the funding to use it is a very different story.

Continuing with the status quo eliminates virtually all of that work, it’s just some minor updates/development work, and keeping a spares quota.

I would love to see another manufacturer represented, but I doubt it could or would be funded independently.
Very valid points. If they don’t get another manufacturer in, maybe they can keep the manufacturing bug fed by getting into TCR. I’d imagine it’d be cheaper, and keep their staff employed
Good point!

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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Coastalraider » February 22, 2019, 7:27 pm

Rick wrote:
February 21, 2019, 10:07 pm
Makes you wonder where Tickford and DJRTP would have been this year had Ford not got back on board. Prior to the Mustang being confirmed last year and the way the parity was shaping up I was half expecting the series to end up just being a new Commodore cup. Marketing more towards a battle between teams rather than manufacturers.


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I think they would still have developed a new chassis, either self funded (Penske is a bloody massive global company, Kelly’s are an aussie race tram with no other revenue stream) but more likely another manufacturer, as Penske has heaps of dealerships with many car makers, with BIG buying power.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Rick » February 22, 2019, 7:43 pm

So good for the category to have them on board. It’s painful to watch when you just have one team dominate as it was prior to their entry.


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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad » February 25, 2019, 6:04 am

Tander and Caruso have landed gigs on RPM.
I didn’t even know that as a show anymore


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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Rick » February 25, 2019, 11:10 am

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:Tander and Caruso have landed gigs on RPM.
I didn’t even know that as a show anymore


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Same I thought it died ages ago. Watched it yesterday. The chick on the show is terrible! Don’t know if I could sit through it again whilst she is still on it.


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The Motorsport Thread

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad » February 25, 2019, 11:20 am

TBH I saw the photo of the panel on Speedcafe. I thought it was Joel Creasey for a moment.

Used to love it back in the day. It was my main source of info for all things Champcar/Indycar. They could never top Bill Woods and Barry Sheene
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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Coastalraider » March 1, 2019, 6:00 pm

Mustangs looked quick on old tires last night, and topped practice today.

They’ll be Jets when they get them sorted.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Rick » March 2, 2019, 12:20 pm

All looking very positive especially since Adelaide is a track that has not really suited the Fords recently. Will be interesting to see how they go in race runs and how well they look after their tyres.


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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Sossman » March 2, 2019, 1:03 pm

They have messed up the parity in the Mustangs. Have a huge advantage to be this quick out of the box.

In person (im actually at the Adelaide 500 this weekend) they are visibly smaller and more compact than the commodores. Must be a CoG / Aero advantage.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Rick » March 2, 2019, 2:51 pm

Sossman wrote:They have messed up the parity in the Mustangs. Have a huge advantage to be this quick out of the box.

In person (im actually at the Adelaide 500 this weekend) they are visibly smaller and more compact than the commodores. Must be a CoG / Aero advantage.

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The parity is as close as it has ever been between all three makes. Qualifying had the top 4 cars (Ford, Holden, Ford, Holden) all within 0.069 of a second of each other.


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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Sossman » March 2, 2019, 3:05 pm

Rick wrote:
Sossman wrote:They have messed up the parity in the Mustangs. Have a huge advantage to be this quick out of the box.

In person (im actually at the Adelaide 500 this weekend) they are visibly smaller and more compact than the commodores. Must be a CoG / Aero advantage.

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The parity is as close as it has ever been between all three makes. Qualifying had the top 4 cars (Ford, Holden, Ford, Holden) all within 0.069 of a second of each other.


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Disagree. Tickford were nowhere the last two years and all of a sudden they're flying.

And it's a brand new car. With no data. And they're all fast.

Jamie and SVG are taking big risks trying to keep up.. Don't let T8 competene mask the fact the new Mustang platform will be dominant this yeah.

Hate to say this but Walkinshaw was right. They should have brought in Camaro instead of "commodore".

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The Motorsport Thread

Post by Rick » March 2, 2019, 3:45 pm

It was only last year that Tickford were off the pace. That being said it was only McLaughlin who could keep up with the ZB’s.

Prior to the ZB coming in Tickford had three cars in the top 8 of the championship in 2017 with Chaz being in the hunt for the championship until the last round.

If there was ever any questions over parity they were last year where the ZB even made someone like Lowndes look relevant.

None of the top teams have any data this year as they have overhauled the rules in relation to the springs in which Triple 8 led the field with the use of complex spring set ups.



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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by -TW- » March 2, 2019, 4:01 pm

Tickford/FPR haven't really factored consistently for years, hence why ford buddied up with DJRTP when they decided to come back in

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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Sossman » March 2, 2019, 5:33 pm

The Mustang is making someone like Holdsworth look relevent.

Let that sink in.

And lol Frosty what was he thinking going to Team 18.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Rick » March 2, 2019, 8:19 pm

Sossman wrote:The Mustang is making someone like Holdsworth look relevent.

Let that sink in.

And lol Frosty what was he thinking going to Team 18.

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He was back in 11th before crashing out. Hardly looking great.


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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Coastalraider » March 2, 2019, 8:26 pm

I believed every cars fastest race lap was within 1 second. With 3 makes of chassis, 3 different engines, multiple chassis constructors, that is an amazing result.

The ZB was the first car to be built to the coupe/hatch model, and had an advantage from the start. Even carbon roofs etc which Supercars had to mandate across the board.

This mustang will be a jet. And will be a better platform than the ZB Commodore.

Just like the ZB was a better platform than the falcon last year. Triple8 will always find a way, so don’t worry too much about a 1 horse race.

And people questioning the relevance of Holsworth, he and Will have been driving cars made of floor sweepings recently. This is the first real time they have had brand new, top line anything in a long while. They are both exceptionally experienced drivers in a bloody good team, with an exceptional platform to work off. They are both likely to take some big points this year, I would keep an eye on Will for the Grand Prix, he loves that place and that Mustang should be very well balanced there.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by bonehead » June 6, 2019, 5:26 pm

Cool picImage

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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by beetlejuice » August 28, 2019, 12:18 pm

Formula One returns from its summer break this weekend!!!! at arguably the best track in F1, SPA!
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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Northern Raider » August 28, 2019, 12:58 pm

beetlejuice wrote:
August 28, 2019, 12:18 pm
Formula One returns from its summer break this weekend!!!! at arguably the best track in F1, SPA!
Yeah, Spa has it all. Begins with the tight hairpin at turn 1 which is brown undies time at the start.

We also get to see Albon debut for Red Bull. Very interesting call giving him the drive as Kvyat has been out racing him recently. If they were going to punt Gasly mid season I thought the easy call was to give Kvyat the seat. He's been short of expectations previously at Red Bull, however he appears to be driving better now. He's also somewhat expendable as they can shunt him back to Toro Rosso next year without raising any eyebrows. I know they are banking on Albon as their future but putting him in now is somehwat throwing him to the wolves and he's actually set up to fail. If he was competing against Gasly the remainder of the year they would have gotten a nice measure on where he's at. Now he's up against Verstappen who will likely waltz away from him.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by beetlejuice » August 28, 2019, 1:13 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
August 28, 2019, 12:58 pm
beetlejuice wrote:
August 28, 2019, 12:18 pm
Formula One returns from its summer break this weekend!!!! at arguably the best track in F1, SPA!
Yeah, Spa has it all. Begins with the tight hairpin at turn 1 which is brown undies time at the start.

We also get to see Albon debut for Red Bull. Very interesting call giving him the drive as Kvyat has been out racing him recently. If they were going to punt Gasly mid season I thought the easy call was to give Kvyat the seat. He's been short of expectations previously at Red Bull, however he appears to be driving better now. He's also somewhat expendable as they can shunt him back to Toro Rosso next year without raising any eyebrows. I know they are banking on Albon as their future but putting him in now is somehwat throwing him to the wolves and he's actually set up to fail. If he was competing against Gasly the remainder of the year they would have gotten a nice measure on where he's at. Now he's up against Verstappen who will likely waltz away from him.
SPA is a old school, true racers track. La Source hairpin that sorts the men from the boys (and proved the halo as a lifesaver last year) followed by a the flat run through Eau-rouge all the way to Les combs.

what Red Bull did to Gasley was a pretty bastard act. while i rate albon, Gasley should have been given to the rest of the season. But they sniff 2nd spot in the constructors. Kyviat will never get his bum in the seat of a red bull ever again. he's only in the torro rosso because they burnt all their other "Junior" drivers and let Saintz go (who is doing REALLY well in the Mclaren). They have thrown all their eggs in with Max (part of the reason why Dan Ricciardo left for Renault) and no other driver will get a proper look in. It will be Vettel v Webber all over again.

speaking of Vettel, hasnt he **** it up big time this season. Leclerc is starting to get comfortable in the Ferrari and has looked the better driver this season. Ferrari will favour Vettel this year, but next season it will be open slather and Vettel does not cope well with a young driver making him look average (think Ricciardo 2014). Vettel to make a shock switch back to Red Bull in 2021 will be my prediction.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Northern Raider » August 28, 2019, 1:50 pm

There was very little logic in punting Gasly at this stage. Really hard to see his replacement giving them any better chance of constructor points. Kvyat is obviously a place holder right now. Must bring a lot of sponsor $$ otherwise he wouldn't even be in the TR seat. Thats the thing though, he's been the 2nd best out of all 4 drivers this year. Albon shows promise but needs to step it up a notch on the track. He's got a giant floodlight on him now.

Vettel - clearly struggling for motivation. Results aren't going his way and LeClerc is applying a ton of pressure. Not sure about the prediction of going back to Red Bull. While it makes sense for all parties on a logical level, I can't see it working for Vettel on an emotional one. He will be 2nd fiddle to Max and that won't sit well with him at all. I think he'll either stay at Ferrari or pull the pin all together. Maybe even head off to the WEC. If he does pull the pin do Ferrari jump on Ricciardo?
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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad » August 28, 2019, 4:11 pm

Your comeback seems to have coincided with Mclarens resurgence Beetle. You shouldn’t have disappeared!


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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by beetlejuice » August 28, 2019, 4:58 pm

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:
August 28, 2019, 4:11 pm
Your comeback seems to have coincided with Mclarens resurgence Beetle. You shouldn’t have disappeared!


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they were some rough years for the boys from Woking. they have not had a win since Lewis Hamilton raced for them and they havent finished on the podium since Australia 2014. They look to have turned it around, Honda were woeful with them.

Given Lewis Hamilton jumped to Mercedes, i followed suit, AND WOW! the years have been good to Lewis supporters like myself. although i went to the Aussie GP in 16,17,18 and saw him take pole all 3 years and finish 2nd.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad » August 28, 2019, 9:49 pm

Lewis is really irking me these days. I dunno, I don’t like the whining over the radio. Feels like 3/4 of the race is him saying “I don’t like these tyres, I need to change strategy. I’m doubting you guys...” then he wins!

Reminds me of this sketch



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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by Coastalraider » September 1, 2019, 8:33 am

Horror shunt at Spa overnight, a young F2 driver died.

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David Furner
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Re: The Motorsport Thread

Post by raiderskater » September 1, 2019, 11:56 am

May Anthoine Hubert rest in peace. He was only 22, had won two races this season and had several offers from the better F2 teams for next year.

The other F2 race this weekend was cancelled and they will have a minute's silence ahead of the GP tonight.
And to all the people who doubted me, hello to them as well. - Mark Webber, Raiders Ballboy and Unluckiest F1 Driver Ever

I'm attacking in the right way, instead of just...attacking in the general direction. - Max Aaron (also eerily apropos for the Green Machine)

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