Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by The Rickman » May 13, 2019, 11:05 pm

Make no mistake about it, the show has diverged pretty seriously from the books since they overtook them, but this was absolutely George RR Martin’s ending

This was how it was always going to go down


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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by greeneyed » May 13, 2019, 11:06 pm

I'm OK with Cersei being dead, but not Jaime. Ayre seems to be the only living soul.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by Dr Zaius » May 13, 2019, 11:07 pm

The Rickman wrote:Make no mistake about it, the show has diverged pretty seriously from the books since they overtook them, but this was absolutely George RR Martin’s ending

This was how it was always going to go down


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Indeed. One article I read put it beautifully. It's like they new the ending and have been writing the story backwards.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by greeneyed » May 13, 2019, 11:09 pm

The Rickman wrote:
May 13, 2019, 11:05 pm
Make no mistake about it, the show has diverged pretty seriously from the books since they overtook them, but this was absolutely George RR Martin’s ending

This was how it was always going to go down


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Well he decided what's happening in the TV show.

Dany is mad. Jon must stop her and he will. And this will be the best end.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by Dr Zaius » May 13, 2019, 11:09 pm

I'm good with that episode with the exception of the death of the Lannisters. After 8 seasons of waiting to see Cersei die, I feel ripped off. Particularly after the little brother prophecy.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by greeneyed » May 13, 2019, 11:11 pm

Oh no... they are both going to die with Jon stopping the finally revealed evil Dany. So Sansa takes over. Now I'm finally as obsessed as the rest of you about the outcome!
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad » May 13, 2019, 11:12 pm

The Rickman wrote:Make no mistake about it, the show has diverged pretty seriously from the books since they overtook them, but this was absolutely George RR Martin’s ending

This was how it was always going to go down


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I’ve heard the actor who played Barristan Selmy said in an interview that GRRM has finished the 6th and 7th book, but agreed to not release them until after the show finished, but this was the ending he had in mind.

Interesting if true. I’m just not sure how he would know that info
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by PigRickman » May 14, 2019, 7:15 am

The Rickman wrote:
May 13, 2019, 11:05 pm
Make no mistake about it, the show has diverged pretty seriously from the books since they overtook them, but this was absolutely George RR Martin’s ending

This was how it was always going to go down


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Yep, this is the right end point but how they got there will be very different in the books
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Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by The Rickman » May 14, 2019, 9:01 am

Yeah, the storylines the last few seasons are pretty bad, it’s almost like George-RR-Martin gave them the main points (Jon being a Targaryen, Dany burning King’s Landing) and left D&D to their own devices with getting there.

Like you, I’m pretty disappointed with how Dany finally snapped, there was literally no reason for her to do that after the city had surrendered. And unlike people like GE (who has obviously never read the books) thinks, ASOAIF never has been and never was supposed to be about a pure “good vs evil” battle, every character was always supposed to have an element of grey about them.

If this final episode boils down to Jon and the Starks (good) vs Dany and the Unsullied/Dothraki (evil), then that’s a pretty disappointing conclusion to an epic tale IMO


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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad » May 14, 2019, 9:24 am

The Rickman wrote:Like you, I’m pretty disappointed with how Dany finally snapped, there was literally no reason for her to do that after the city had surrendered.
My thoughts were that it was the idea of fear that caused her to snap. She realised she’d never be secure as queen if the people don’t fear her. She knew they’d never love her, because in her mind they loved Jon more. All season she’s been losing friends, family and loved ones, and I think she’s been feeling like she’s losing power, and in previous seasons she’s shown to make emotional, snap decisions to enforce her power.

I haven’t read the books, that’s why I really enjoy your insight and thoughts. I don’t see it as a Good vs Evil fight, but one about nature vs nurture. I’m hoping Jon wins, uses Dany to show the world how this obsession for the throne effs up even those with the best intentions, destroys it, and democracy prevails.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by The Rickman » May 14, 2019, 9:37 am

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:
The Rickman wrote:Make no mistake about it, the show has diverged pretty seriously from the books since they overtook them, but this was absolutely George RR Martin’s ending

This was how it was always going to go down


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I’ve heard the actor who played Barristan Selmy said in an interview that GRRM has finished the 6th and 7th book, but agreed to not release them until after the show finished, but this was the ending he had in mind.

Interesting if true. I’m just not sure how he would know that info
I wouldn’t read too much into that if I were you. Apparently Ian MnIlhenney was furious that they re-wrote his character and killed him off (he didn’t die in the books and they were still very much within book territory when they offed him) and he begged the writers to reconsider.

Doesn’t seem like a man who’s had all you can eat to me.


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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by Northern Raider » May 14, 2019, 10:02 am

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:
May 14, 2019, 9:24 am
The Rickman wrote:Like you, I’m pretty disappointed with how Dany finally snapped, there was literally no reason for her to do that after the city had surrendered.
My thoughts were that it was the idea of fear that caused her to snap. She realised she’d never be secure as queen if the people don’t fear her. She knew they’d never love her, because in her mind they loved Jon more. All season she’s been losing friends, family and loved ones, and I think she’s been feeling like she’s losing power, and in previous seasons she’s shown to make emotional, snap decisions to enforce her power.

I haven’t read the books, that’s why I really enjoy your insight and thoughts. I don’t see it as a Good vs Evil fight, but one about nature vs nurture. I’m hoping Jon wins, uses Dany to show the world how this obsession for the throne effs up even those with the best intentions, destroys it, and democracy prevails.
I believe that she snapped well before that final act of burning the city. It was protrayed as such with her demeanor following Missandei's execution.

I was a little disappointed with how easily Drogon took out the Iron Fleet, Golden Company and the battery of scorpions around Kings Landing. We've seen previously how effective these weapons were against dragons and this time round they may as well have been potato guns. Golden Company was a complete waste of time as well. Why even bother introducing them?

I guess what it displayed was the true power of dragons, particularly when wielded by a ruthless leader. It established how the Targaryens held rule for so long without challenge.

Very disappointed in how Cersei went down. A wasteful demise for one the series most critical and best characters. On the flip side I loved how Qyburn was taken out by the monster he created.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by PigRickman » May 14, 2019, 10:27 am

The Rickman wrote:
May 14, 2019, 9:37 am
Doesn’t seem like a man who’s had all you can eat to me.
THAT COULD HAVE BEEN ME!
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by The Rickman » May 14, 2019, 10:30 am

There was plenty that seemed out of place in that episode for me. Jon Snow just standing there while Varys got burned seems totally out of character as well.


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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by Northern Raider » May 14, 2019, 10:42 am

The Rickman wrote:
May 14, 2019, 10:30 am
There was plenty that seemed out of place in that episode for me. Jon Snow just standing there while Varys got burned seems totally out of character as well.
So much of it didn't work. I can't think of too many scenes that left me satisfied. Cleganebowl was the exception.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by PigRickman » May 14, 2019, 12:30 pm

I just remembered this and it got lost in the shuffle a little bit, but the final Jamie-Tyrion scene was excellent, and really well done by both actors. That hit me right in the feels
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by The Rickman » May 14, 2019, 12:42 pm

So I just read this on Reddit and it explains my Gendry theory/legitimisation a bit better. This post was in response to someone saying Bran was the next in line for the Iron Throne behind Jon Snow and Daenerys...

"It doesn’t work quite like that. Jon derives his claim from his descent from Aegon the Conqueror... all rulers (except Cersei*) have relied upon that lineage to justify their claims to the throne. Jon is the last of Aegon the Conqueror’s male bloodline: an unbroken line of father to son successions.

Once Jon is gone, that’s it: The Targaryen family will be “extinct in the male line”, and the claim must be based on female descendants of Aegon the Conqueror, as close to the most recent heir of the male line possible. This was how Robert Baratheon claimed the throne: his grandmother (or great grandmother, I forget which) was a Targaryen. This gave him the best claim to the throne at the time (outside of Viserys and Dany who were in exile, and Jon whose parentage was secret).

Tl;dr - After the extinction of the Targaryen male line, the Baratheon dynasty is next in line, the first succession based on descent from AtC via a woman. This means that after Jon and Dany, Gendry is the next in line for the throne.

*Cersei claimed power due to, basically, right of conquest."
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad » May 14, 2019, 1:02 pm

Something else that just hit me would be how devastated Jon would be feeling. Imagine going through that epic battle of Winterfell to save the living, only for your ally to go and wipe out a million people in Kings Landing. What was the point?
The Rickman wrote:
May 14, 2019, 10:30 am
There was plenty that seemed out of place in that episode for me. Jon Snow just standing there while Varys got burned seems totally out of character as well.
On the one hand, Varys was caught committing treason, and was being punished. I kind of relate that back to S01E01 when Ned killed that guy for leaving the Wall. So in that way, I think him hanging around and watching Varys getting punished was fitting.

On the other hand, if he did anything, he would probably have suffered the same fate. So there wasn't much else he could have done.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by Northern Raider » May 14, 2019, 1:44 pm

PigRickman wrote:
May 14, 2019, 12:30 pm
I just remembered this and it got lost in the shuffle a little bit, but the final Jamie-Tyrion scene was excellent, and really well done by both actors. That hit me right in the feels
Yeah, that was lump in the throat stuff. We knew at that point they would not be seeing each other again and Jaime was doomed.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by Northern Raider » May 14, 2019, 1:55 pm

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:
May 14, 2019, 1:02 pm
Something else that just hit me would be how devastated Jon would be feeling. Imagine going through that epic battle of Winterfell to save the living, only for your ally to go and wipe out a million people in Kings Landing. What was the point?
The Rickman wrote:
May 14, 2019, 10:30 am
There was plenty that seemed out of place in that episode for me. Jon Snow just standing there while Varys got burned seems totally out of character as well.
On the one hand, Varys was caught committing treason, and was being punished. I kind of relate that back to S01E01 when Ned killed that guy for leaving the Wall. So in that way, I think him hanging around and watching Varys getting punished was fitting.

On the other hand, if he did anything, he would probably have suffered the same fate. So there wasn't much else he could have done.
I'm with Fui. Varys was found guilty of treason based on the unquestioned testimony of Tyrion and quite possibly Jon himself. Varys didn't claim innocence either. Jon has overseen a number of executions for treason/mutiny. Lets not forget the hanging of Alliser Thorne, Olly et al for the mutiny at Castle Black. Since then he went soft on capital punishment because he needed every man alive in the battle against the dead. That war has come an gone so that particular philosophy is out the window.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by dubby » May 14, 2019, 5:22 pm

I'm gobsmacked at how much people read into this.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by The Rickman » May 14, 2019, 5:36 pm

dubby wrote:
May 14, 2019, 5:22 pm
I'm gobsmacked at how much people read into this.

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No one who saw Game of Thrones would say that.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by dubby » May 14, 2019, 6:06 pm

Watched every episode. Read every book.
Books were meh. TV show very good.

I'm still a little surprised.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by The Rickman » May 14, 2019, 6:10 pm

dubby wrote:Watched every episode. Read every book.
Books were meh. TV show very good.

I'm still a little surprised.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by dubby » May 14, 2019, 6:11 pm

[Emoji unknown]

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by PigRickman » May 14, 2019, 6:36 pm

What did you find meh about the books, Dubs?
Genuinely curious?
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by The Rickman » May 14, 2019, 7:06 pm

Yeah, I don’t know anybody who has read the books who would a) describe them as *checks notes* meh or 2) would claim the show is even remotely better, particularly since it’s gone past the end of the books!


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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by Northern Raider » May 14, 2019, 7:07 pm

Books better than the series IMO. Soooo much more happening. By comparison the series feels like the truncated version. Particularly the past couple of seasons where they have trodden their own path.

The books aren't without flaws (what is?) but still a fantastic read.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by Azza » May 14, 2019, 7:19 pm

OK so I've been away for a month and am just catching up, downloading S8 atm Now I'm discouraged - it sounds like it's rubbish? Even season 7 started to go off the boil a bit.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by Dr Zaius » May 14, 2019, 7:38 pm

Azza wrote:OK so I've been away for a month and am just catching up, downloading S8 atm Now I'm discouraged - it sounds like it's rubbish? Even season 7 started to go off the boil a bit.
Na mate it's actually really good, but we all have ridiculously high expectations for it. No one was ever going to be completely satisfied. Well worth a look.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by Azza » May 14, 2019, 7:44 pm

Ok thanks. I guess it's testament to what a good writer Martin is - the last 2 seasons without his detailed novels to base it off have definitely seemed to drop off, good to know it's not horrible though.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by Northern Raider » May 14, 2019, 7:57 pm

Nah, its not terrible. I'd best describe it as production values having overtaken story telling. Its become more hollywood style than the intriguing plot twists.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by Dr Zaius » May 14, 2019, 8:13 pm

Northern Raider wrote:Nah, its not terrible. I'd best describe it as production values having overtaken story telling. Its become more hollywood style than the intriguing plot twists.
That's pretty accurate.

Except for the first two episodes which were storytelling, and people botched that there was no action.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by dubby » May 14, 2019, 8:26 pm

PigRickman wrote:What did you find meh about the books, Dubs?
Genuinely curious?
Thought they were rather long winded and boring. So many characters, plots it became rather tedious and a chore to read.

I'm not bagging them. Just not something I enjoyed overall.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*

Post by gangrenous » May 14, 2019, 8:26 pm

Northern Raider wrote:Nah, its not terrible. I'd best describe it as production values having overtaken story telling. Its become more hollywood style than the intriguing plot twists.
It is terrible, because that’s not what Game of Thrones is supposed to be.

I had no real complaints on first two eps, but the latest three the writing is beyond lazy.

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