The Greenhouse

Just watching True Detective tonight...

And it led me to thinking... is television now the most creative audio visual medium? More creative than film? When you put together what is coming out of Hollywood on the big screen... it is mostly dross with Bruce Willis and special effects car chases.

Sure, there's lots of dross on TV, but do the pay TV channels and premium TV mini series/movies/series now offer the best opportunity for experimental story telling in 2014?

I would tend to agree. Especially a lot of the series that have been produced through HBO.

I think so with the move towards TV series which are a continuous story line, unlike shows such as CSI which wrap up each week.

I think TV is a better medium for creative writing. It allows for character and story development that you can't get with movies and it allows for drama and suspense that you also can't build as well with movies without resorting to unrealistic plot lines and tricks.

I also think the Hulu and Netflix business models will become the new normal. Sadly Australia will miss out on this technological shift because we won't have the infrastructure but in 5 years Ultra HD streaming will be the preferred method of delivery for most new dramatical series. House of Cards, Orange is the new Black, the Killing are all being produced for online rather than broadcast or cable distribution and I think more and more series will be produced independantly and distributed online.

Hulu works great on my NBN connection

Shadow Boxer wrote:Hulu works great on my NBN connection

But you are and will no doubt remain in the minority. Most people won't get the kind of connection that will be needed to make use of the new technology when it becomes available.

Damn Liberal Party. I'm outraged!!

Cut, the rot. Stop, the boats

Green eyed Mick wrote:

Shadow Boxer wrote:Hulu works great on my NBN connection

But you are and will no doubt remain in the minority. Most people won't get the kind of connection that will be needed to make use of the new technology when it becomes available.

Yeh it's looking that way 100 mbps is great for multi media,

Basically hippies who just spend their time protesting life won't be able to afford it, but people with actual jobs should be ok.

greeneyed wrote:Just watching True Detective tonight...

And it led me to thinking... is television now the most creative audio visual medium? More creative than film? When you put together what is coming out of Hollywood on the big screen... it is mostly dross with Bruce Willis and special effects car chases.

Sure, there's lots of dross on TV, but do the pay TV channels and premium TV mini series/movies/series now offer the best opportunity for experimental story telling in 2014?

I think that television shows allow 2 things that most films can fail to capture, story and character development. This is what TV has over most movies, it allows more freedom to explore the character and the back story, the interaction between characters and story progression.

Some movies have a hollow character or story and just focus on the action scenes, jumping from one to the next to keep people entertained. I find these boring, and only the best of these can do it well enough to keep me interested.

I think though your forgetting games too, these have become a much more creative medium as well (well some of them anyway, for example I really didn't like the walking dead TV Series after season 1 and stopped after season 2 about 8 episodes in, but I enjoyed the game especially the characters and story. Sure it was interactive but the way it was done really shone for me.

I think TV and games allow creators to explore unconventional ideas, and different concepts and characters due to the consumption and delivery of the content. Sure I'll love my films but these can take longer than TV shows and have to be tightly focused and production costs are so much higher. Where as with a TV show its not all about how much money you spend, it's how you deliver on story, narrative, character and mechanics. Get one of these right and I'll probably enjoy your show or game. Get all of these right and I'll love it.

DBOT187 wrote:

greeneyed wrote:Just watching True Detective tonight...

And it led me to thinking... is television now the most creative audio visual medium? More creative than film? When you put together what is coming out of Hollywood on the big screen... it is mostly dross with Bruce Willis and special effects car chases.

Sure, there's lots of dross on TV, but do the pay TV channels and premium TV mini series/movies/series now offer the best opportunity for experimental story telling in 2014?

I think that television shows allow 2 things that most films can fail to capture, story and character development. This is what TV has over most movies, it allows more freedom to explore the character and the back story, the interaction between characters and story progression.

Some movies have a hollow character or story and just focus on the action scenes, jumping from one to the next to keep people entertained. I find these boring, and only the best of these can do it well enough to keep me interested.

I think though your forgetting games too, these have become a much more creative medium as well (well some of them anyway, for example I really didn't like the walking dead TV Series after season 1 and stopped after season 2 about 8 episodes in, but I enjoyed the game especially the characters and story. Sure it was interactive but the way it was done really shone for me.

I think TV and games allow creators to explore unconventional ideas, and different concepts and characters due to the consumption and delivery of the content. Sure I'll love my films but these can take longer than TV shows and have to be tightly focused and production costs are so much higher. Where as with a TV show its not all about how much money you spend, it's how you deliver on story, narrative, character and mechanics. Get one of these right and I'll probably enjoy your show or game. Get all of these right and I'll love it.

You're right about gaming. The Last of Us was a real evolutionary leap forward in story telling gaming. Throw in Bioshock Infinite and 2013 really was a new era in gaming.

Expecting big things in 2014

Yep gaming is the most creative medium now days

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:

DBOT187 wrote:

greeneyed wrote:Just watching True Detective tonight...

And it led me to thinking... is television now the most creative audio visual medium? More creative than film? When you put together what is coming out of Hollywood on the big screen... it is mostly dross with Bruce Willis and special effects car chases.

Sure, there's lots of dross on TV, but do the pay TV channels and premium TV mini series/movies/series now offer the best opportunity for experimental story telling in 2014?

I think that television shows allow 2 things that most films can fail to capture, story and character development. This is what TV has over most movies, it allows more freedom to explore the character and the back story, the interaction between characters and story progression.

Some movies have a hollow character or story and just focus on the action scenes, jumping from one to the next to keep people entertained. I find these boring, and only the best of these can do it well enough to keep me interested.

I think though your forgetting games too, these have become a much more creative medium as well (well some of them anyway, for example I really didn't like the walking dead TV Series after season 1 and stopped after season 2 about 8 episodes in, but I enjoyed the game especially the characters and story. Sure it was interactive but the way it was done really shone for me.

I think TV and games allow creators to explore unconventional ideas, and different concepts and characters due to the consumption and delivery of the content. Sure I'll love my films but these can take longer than TV shows and have to be tightly focused and production costs are so much higher. Where as with a TV show its not all about how much money you spend, it's how you deliver on story, narrative, character and mechanics. Get one of these right and I'll probably enjoy your show or game. Get all of these right and I'll love it.

You're right about gaming. The Last of Us was a real evolutionary leap forward in story telling gaming. Throw in Bioshock Infinite and 2013 really was a new era in gaming.

Expecting big things in 2014

The only thing I worry about is in the quest to tell an awesome story, thats all developers will focus on without regard for mechanics, controls and gameplay. Without these even the best story can fall down. While I enjoyed both the games you mentioned and finished them both, I think gameplay wise bioshock infinite could have used some tightening up with the gunplay, vigors system and some sections. I digged the story and while the gameplay was reasonable, I wish it could have been epic.

Last of us I really enjoyed all round, the crafting system could have used a bit more polish, but I get the system they were going for.

Manbush wrote:Yep gaming is the most creative medium now days

I think visually, acoustically and story telling wise it allows exposition exploration and interactivity in a way no other medium can match. It's a shame that in the push to have super awesome graphics, a Hollywood experience and cool set pieces to ensure the player doesn't get quote bored or thinking has made gaming a little bit crapper then it used to be. Sure we have been spoilt for choice and while the technology has allowed developers to realise their vision and match their ambitions, I just worry in the quest for the above experience we will lose out on solid gameplay and good mechanics in favour of a Hollywood score and less story/more action.

Games don't tell real stories. Sorry.

You've never played many games have you, some of the story lines are epic. Some of the Final Fantasy games took over 100hrs to complete with deep plots and character development.

Some of the stories are as real and detailed as any TV show.

But they're not real people. Can never replace the reality of human performances IMO.

What does having real people have to do with creativity or story telling? Guess you don't believe any animated TV shows or movies etc are creative with real stories either.

Yes I do, but games... I just don't accept them as stories I guess.

Need to open your mind and experience some modern games, they're not like frogger, PAC man or space invaders anymore. Some are purely action with bugger all story but other have stories just as deep and complex as any show/movie, you'd be surprised.

greeneyed wrote:Games don't tell real stories. Sorry.

And in the Shakespearean era people would have perished the thought that boxes with glass fronts would be able to tell a 30 min story in peoples living rooms, and yet here you are claiming it's the most creative medium.

"Surely ye jest!!!!" They would have cried from their terraces. "There is no way you can capture the essence and soul of the stage and expel it from a... a... a demon box contraption!" they would wail.

Just because it's not what you've thought or believed doesn't make it wrong. Outside the square isn't such a bad place, GE. Edwards is there. He's waiting. He wants to give you a hug.

Sorry, I just don't think games are actually telling stories. They're games.

Just think of a game as a big, electronic "choose your own adventure" book.

Sorry, I just don't think TV shows are actually telling stories. They're TV shows.

You know what - I actually agree with GE about this one.

A few fancy graphics and sound effects doesn't make gaming the most creative medium.

I think TV has overtaken movies for two reasons. Firstly, these days people seem to be a lot busier. Taking out the time to watch a movie isn't that easy, so there seems to be more of a focus on producing better TV these days. You see fantastic actors like Kevin Spacey doing TV shows (House of Cards) now rather than movies.

Secondly, a TV series these days isn't episode to episode like it used to be. A good example is the evolution of the Law and Order SVU series. These days there are underlying plots about the characters which continue from episode to episode, rather than a quick story about catching a rapist and then starting fresh the next episode. GeM touched on this above - this allows deeper character development and storyline development over time, rather than cramming it in to an hour and a half with some fancy special effects.

Firstly I'm not actually arguing that games are the most creative, I haven't honestly put enough thought into it.

However, I would bet that anyone who doesn't think gaming is a very creative medium hasn't played any of the top selling games over the last few years that isn't a First Person Shooter.

Off the top of my head I'll cite a few games with pretty good stories
Most Metal Gear Solids
Final Fantasy Series
Soul Reaver
Devil May Cry
Legend of Zelda
Half Life

I really think unless you go out and actually play a few games with good stories you shouldn't really shoot it down. Just like someone who at most has watched the news on a T.V couldn't comment on how creative television really can be.

Silent Hill 2 is widely regarded as the best story in a video game.

Some games now days concentrate more on the actual story than they do graphics and gameplay.

Also think everyone's selling movies a bit short and just going by Hollywood blockbusters, try watching some foreign films for creativity and originality. So many tv shows now are just rehashing the same themes just with a bit of difference or better yet a tonne of reality programs.

Shezza wrote:You know what - I actually agree with GE about this one.

A few fancy graphics and sound effects doesn't make gaming the most creative medium.

- this allows deeper character development and storyline development over time, rather than cramming it in to an hour and a half with some fancy special effects.

Considering I've played games that take over 100hrs to complete (about 130 tv episodes in length) don't you think that sort of time frame allows for great character and storyline development?

GE and Shezza are wrong.

The storyline behind Grand Theft Auto IV was simply brilliant. It's the best storyline I've ever seen in a game.

The Nickman wrote:GE and Shezza are wrong.

The storyline behind Grand Theft Auto IV was simply brilliant. It's the best storyline I've ever seen in a game.

So driving around in a car being a criminal and beating up prostitutes makes gaming the most creative medium?

That'll do me.

There is so much more to that game than that.

Closed-minded, bud. Very closed-minded.

You could also cut TV shows down to their most basic elements, **** now days theyre all generic CSI crap or reality shows, very creative! TV was more creative years ago at least they had original concepts.

On GTA 5, a decent story but not the best, if you've got 7hrs here's the cut scenes (non game play) where a lot the story is told outside of what is told in the actual gameplay.



That's the thing with games now, it's not just playing there's a lot of just sitting back watching the story unfold.

Didn't watch the whole thing but it struck me as the most two dimensional and cliche characters ever.