The Greenhouse

Hey Raiders Lime Milk (and anyone else who knows what I'm talking about), what's your opinion of Paradise Lost?

Their S/T album was what got me into doom, but I've been neglecting them of late in favor of Candlemass, Katatonia, Amorphis etc. Just put them on for the first time in ages - I think I'm going to have to seek out their entire discography.

This thread is going to consist soley of you and Limey talking to eachother, and me making fun of the pair of you.

Michael wrote:This thread is going to consist soley of you and Limey talking to eachother, and me making fun of the pair of you.

I don't care for your childish insults. You lack the requisite heterosexuality to appreciate metal, so fk you.

I'm sure Limey feels the same.

Rodman wrote:

Michael wrote:This thread is going to consist soley of you and Limey talking to eachother, and me making fun of the pair of you.

I don't care for your childish insults. You lack the requisite heterosexuality to appreciate metal, so fk you.

I'm sure Limey feels the same.

Silly me - I forgot that the metal scene is a haven for budding casanovas. Even if it is tongue-in-cheek, I refuse to believe that any genre where 85% of the songs contain themes of Nazism, corpse-raping, murder, church-burning, wizards, sabre-tooth tigers and lightning is a paragon of hetero-ness.

Michael wrote:

Rodman wrote:

Michael wrote:This thread is going to consist soley of you and Limey talking to eachother, and me making fun of the pair of you.

I don't care for your childish insults. You lack the requisite heterosexuality to appreciate metal, so fk you.

I'm sure Limey feels the same.

Silly me - I forgot that the metal scene is a haven for budding casanovas. Even if it is tongue-in-cheek, I refuse to believe that any genre where 85% of the songs contain themes of Nazism, corpse-raping, murder, church-burning, wizards, sabre-tooth tigers and lightning is a paragon of hetero-ness.

You are just like the fundamentalists who burn books they've never read.

I've listened to my fair share of metal, you know that - perhaps not the point where I'm debating the latest release from the seminal Finnish doom-gloom-atmospheric band Necro-yeti, but I still think I'm sufficiently qualified to make fun of it.

I watched my Xavier Rudd in concert DVD last night. good times.

That is all

KW

Never been a huge metal fan, just the odd band which is strange since one of my all time favorite bands is metal, Suicidal Tendencies and their various side projects, probably due to the mix of funk.

Was a big Metallica fan in the 80s before they went down hill in the 90s, had such high hopes for them when Rob Trujillo joined em just a shame they're wasting his talents, the bass should be sounding more like this. (though Rob for all his talent ain't no Les)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uva_FrpL ... ata_player

Some of my favourite albums...

Control Denied - The Fragile Art of Existence

Bass, drums, guitar, vocals. All quality. Perfect album.

The Eye of Every Storm - Neurosis

Always on high rotation and I have been listening to it for a a couple of years straight now. Good music to chill too.

Arghoslent - Incorrigible Bigotry

Absoutely disgusting lyrics, but I just ignore them and its probably one of the best progressive death metal albums I have ever heard.

Michael wrote:I've listened to my fair share of metal, you know that - perhaps not the point where I'm debating the latest release from the seminal Finnish doom-gloom-atmospheric band Necro-yeti, but I still think I'm sufficiently qualified to make fun of it.

They have a new album? Why wasn't I told?

Michael wrote:

Rodman wrote:

Michael wrote:This thread is going to consist soley of you and Limey talking to eachother, and me making fun of the pair of you.

I don't care for your childish insults. You lack the requisite heterosexuality to appreciate metal, so fk you.

I'm sure Limey feels the same.

Silly me - I forgot that the metal scene is a haven for budding casanovas. Even if it is tongue-in-cheek, I refuse to believe that any genre where 85% of the songs contain themes of Nazism, corpse-raping, murder, church-burning, wizards, sabre-tooth tigers and lightning is a paragon of hetero-ness.

Luckily, it's less than 85% of themes that are as cringe worthy as those you mentioned (maybe 80%), however there is a lot about metal that can be embarrassing (Manowar anyone?). Although a song about a wizard would have to be pretty cool (especially Sabbath's "The Wizard"). What was I saying? Oh yeah, me and Rod are tough chick-pulling hetero dudes.

Now, onto the issue at hand. Amazingly, I've never heard Paradise Lost's Lost Paradise, but their second album Gothic is an absolute masterpiece that was very influential on early Katatonia. The next few albums moved in a different direction, being (ironically) more gothic sounding than death/doom sounding. Albums like Icon and Draconian Times had clean vocals and were more bombastic (and occasionally too cheesy) so if you haven't heard them yet, prepare for a significantly different sound to the earlier records. But I have to admit I like them a lot.

After those albums things went a bit pear-shaped. One Second had an overriding Depech Mode synth sound and it was pretty cheesy (I really like Depeche Mode, but this direction for Paradise Lost didn't work). Ever since then I've not paid much attention to them. So check out the older albums you don't have but don't expect much sounding like the early doom stuff.

I saw Paradise Lost live in 1995 when Draconian Times came out. They were pretty good.

Dr. Alex wrote:Some of my favourite albums...

Control Denied - The Fragile Art of Existence

Bass, drums, guitar, vocals. All quality. Perfect album.

The Eye of Every Storm - Neurosis

Always on high rotation and I have been listening to it for a a couple of years straight now. Good music to chill too.

Arghoslent - Incorrigible Bigotry

Absoutely disgusting lyrics, but I just ignore them and its probably one of the best progressive death metal albums I have ever heard.

I gotta give Neurosis more of a spin. I own The Eye of Every Storm and have hardly listened to it.

Rodman wrote:You are just like the fundamentalists who burn books they've never read.

Yes!

Speaking of Metal... I am seeing Fear Factory and Metallica this Saturday night... I don't really like either band as much as I did when I was 15, but, still... Awesome.

Raiders Lime Milk wrote:Now, onto the issue at hand. Amazingly, I've never heard Paradise Lost's Lost Paradise, but their second album Gothic is an absolute masterpiece that was very influential on early Katatonia. The next few albums moved in a different direction, being (ironically) more gothic sounding than death/doom sounding. Albums like Icon and Draconian Times had clean vocals and were more bombastic (and occasionally too cheesy) so if you haven't heard them yet, prepare for a significantly different sound to the earlier records. But I have to admit I like them a lot.

After those albums things went a bit pear-shaped. One Second had an overriding Depech Mode synth sound and it was pretty cheesy (I really like Depeche Mode, but this direction for Paradise Lost didn't work). Ever since then I've not paid much attention to them. So check out the older albums you don't have but don't expect much sounding like the early doom stuff.

I saw Paradise Lost live in 1995 when Draconian Times came out. They were pretty good.

I should have mentioned this in the OP - I also have Draconian Times. I'm nowhere near as familiar with it as I am the S/T, but I'm a fan - the vocalist's lame impression of James Hetfield not-withstanding.

To Alex - I'm familiar with most metal bands that aren't garage black metal acts, yet I've somehow never come across Control Denied - though I know it's Chuck Schulidner's band (geez I hope I got that right - I'm sure the spelling isn't...). You've just reminded me to check 'em out. Cheers!

Jake wrote:

Rodman wrote:You are just like the fundamentalists who burn books they've never read.

Yes!

Speaking of Metal... I am seeing Fear Factory and Metallica this Saturday night... I don't really like either band as much as I did when I was 15, but, still... Awesome.

I'll be there on Saturday too. Man I'm glad the Raiders are playing Friday and not clashing with this. Both bands are well beyond their peak, but I'm looking forward to it. Metallica will still kick plenty of back door as they haven't lost it live. I saw Fear factory five weeks ago at Wacken for about the 8000th time and found it pretty uninspiring. They used to be so cutting edge and phenomenal live, but the recent show I found very one dimensional.

Raiders Lime Milk wrote:

Jake wrote:

Rodman wrote:You are just like the fundamentalists who burn books they've never read.

Yes!

Speaking of Metal... I am seeing Fear Factory and Metallica this Saturday night... I don't really like either band as much as I did when I was 15, but, still... Awesome.

I'll be there on Saturday too. Man I'm glad the Raiders are playing Friday and not clashing with this. Both bands are well beyond their peak, but I'm looking forward to it. Metallica will still kick plenty of back door as they haven't lost it live. I saw Fear factory five weeks ago at Wacken for about the 8000th time and found it pretty uninspiring. They used to be so cutting edge and phenomenal live, but the recent show I found very one dimensional.

I never had the pleasure of seeing FF live during the Demanufacture-era, but the times that I have seen them they haven't cut it as a live band. They were one of my favorite bands when I first got into metal, but I'm pretty over them now TBH...

Black Sabbath were the best and original. All of it since then has sounded the same, which i'm not sure is a good thing.

Fear Factory would have to be the fattest band in the world - I saw them at the Big Day Out last year (lord knows what they were doing there) and I was horrified. They appear to have hired some sort of wooly-mammoth prototype on bass, and Dino has been in a good paddock lately. Also, how is it possible for George Stroud to be such a beast of a drummer, and yet morbidly obese at the same time?

They are certainly a fat band. I would loved to have seen them in the Demanufacture-era. What sort of stuff are they playing Milk? Old stuff exclusively? Or Transgression-era rubbish?

Metallica will be awesome. Also, The Sword are pretty cool... Sludgy modern metal. Impossible not to draw comparisons with Sabbath (just like any band ever who play a sludgy riff).

I'm pumped.

Raiders Lime Milk wrote:

Michael wrote:
Silly me - I forgot that the metal scene is a haven for budding casanovas. Even if it is tongue-in-cheek, I refuse to believe that any genre where 85% of the songs contain themes of Nazism, corpse-raping, murder, church-burning, wizards, sabre-tooth tigers and lightning is a paragon of hetero-ness.

Luckily, it's less than 85% of themes that are as cringe worthy as those you mentioned (maybe 80%), however there is a lot about metal that can be embarrassing (Manowar anyone?). Although a song about a wizard would have to be pretty cool (especially Sabbath's "The Wizard"). What was I saying? Oh yeah, me and Rod are tough chick-pulling hetero dudes.

Rod and I were discussing this on Saturday night actually - I think there's two ways you can look at metal: I agree with Rod when he said that it wouldn't make sense to be singing about love and happiness when you're playing the most brutal genres of music; but even if it is largely tongue-in-cheek, grown men singing about satan and sabretooth tigers while wearing leather and/or corpse-paint is pretty ridiculous and more than a little gay - perhaps that's the point, I'm not sure.

On the other hand, anyone who takes metal seriously is retarded .

Michael wrote:

Raiders Lime Milk wrote:

Michael wrote:
Silly me - I forgot that the metal scene is a haven for budding casanovas. Even if it is tongue-in-cheek, I refuse to believe that any genre where 85% of the songs contain themes of Nazism, corpse-raping, murder, church-burning, wizards, sabre-tooth tigers and lightning is a paragon of hetero-ness.

Luckily, it's less than 85% of themes that are as cringe worthy as those you mentioned (maybe 80%), however there is a lot about metal that can be embarrassing (Manowar anyone?). Although a song about a wizard would have to be pretty cool (especially Sabbath's "The Wizard"). What was I saying? Oh yeah, me and Rod are tough chick-pulling hetero dudes.

Rod and I were discussing this on Saturday night actually - I think there's two ways you can look at metal: I agree with Rod when he said that it wouldn't make sense to be singing about love and happiness when you're playing the most brutal genres of music; but even if it is largely tongue-in-cheek, grown men singing about satan and sabretooth tigers while wearing leather and/or corpse-paint is pretty ridiculous and more than a little gay - perhaps that's the point, I'm not sure.

On the other hand, anyone who takes metal seriously is retarded .

You're such an ignoramus. You've probably described about 2% of all metal bands there.

I listen to one band who wear leather - and their frontman is openly gay.

Corpsepaint (while admittedly gay) is worn by members of a genre replete with convicted murderers and church-burners. These guys are not in the metal game for pussy...

I'm clearly being hyperbolic - besides, you seriously think that only 2% of metal bands sing about Satan and death etc?

Yeah, I know all the stories about the guys from Mayhem making jewelery out of the bones of their former bandmates, claims of cannibalism and church-burning, and their guitarist being murdered by Varg from Burzum. Those are people who take metal seriously - I rest my case.

For someone who constantly claims that metal is tongue-in-cheek you do spend an awful lot of time responding to what is some pretty light-hearted ribbing from yours truly.

Michael wrote:I'm clearly being hyperbolic - besides, you seriously think that only 2% of metal bands sing about Satan and death etc?

The 2% figure was in reference to the number of bands who wear leather and corpsepaint.

The other 98% are Tommy Lee-like sex machines packing more meat than a Christmas lunch.

Rodman wrote:

Michael wrote:I'm clearly being hyperbolic - besides, you seriously think that only 2% of metal bands sing about Satan and death etc?

The 2% figure was in reference to the number of bands who wear leather and corpsepaint.

The other 98% are Tommy Lee-like sex machines packing more meat than a Christmas lunch.

Are we talking about hair-metal now?

Rodman wrote:

Raiders Lime Milk wrote:

Jake wrote:

Rodman wrote:You are just like the fundamentalists who burn books they've never read.

Yes!

Speaking of Metal... I am seeing Fear Factory and Metallica this Saturday night... I don't really like either band as much as I did when I was 15, but, still... Awesome.

I'll be there on Saturday too. Man I'm glad the Raiders are playing Friday and not clashing with this. Both bands are well beyond their peak, but I'm looking forward to it. Metallica will still kick plenty of back door as they haven't lost it live. I saw Fear factory five weeks ago at Wacken for about the 8000th time and found it pretty uninspiring. They used to be so cutting edge and phenomenal live, but the recent show I found very one dimensional.

I never had the pleasure of seeing FF live during the Demanufacture-era, but the times that I have seen them they haven't cut it as a live band. They were one of my favorite bands when I first got into metal, but I'm pretty over them now TBH...

I first saw FF on the Demanufacture tour, and they were very good back then. But they were a cutting-edge band in those days and their sonic pummelling simply worked. But in the last 10 years their music has been ordinary and the live show has reflected that. Plus, their man vs machine themes have been done to death. They tend now to just be a wall of sound and it's quite frankly a bit boring.

Raiders Lime Milk wrote:

Rodman wrote:

Raiders Lime Milk wrote:

Jake wrote:

Rodman wrote:You are just like the fundamentalists who burn books they've never read.

Yes!

Speaking of Metal... I am seeing Fear Factory and Metallica this Saturday night... I don't really like either band as much as I did when I was 15, but, still... Awesome.

I'll be there on Saturday too. Man I'm glad the Raiders are playing Friday and not clashing with this. Both bands are well beyond their peak, but I'm looking forward to it. Metallica will still kick plenty of back door as they haven't lost it live. I saw Fear factory five weeks ago at Wacken for about the 8000th time and found it pretty uninspiring. They used to be so cutting edge and phenomenal live, but the recent show I found very one dimensional.

I never had the pleasure of seeing FF live during the Demanufacture-era, but the times that I have seen them they haven't cut it as a live band. They were one of my favorite bands when I first got into metal, but I'm pretty over them now TBH...

I first saw FF on the Demanufacture tour, and they were very good back then. But they were a cutting-edge band in those days and their sonic pummelling simply worked. But in the last 10 years their music has been ordinary and the live show has reflected that. Plus, their man vs machine themes have been done to death. They tend now to just be a wall of sound and it's quite frankly a bit boring.

Agreed. I checked out their latest one which had fans beating their meat over as 'a return to form', but really it was little more than Demanufacture b-sides. FF'S problem is whenever they've tried to do something a little different (Obsolete, Digimirtal) it's been garbage.

I'd probably more interested in them if they reverted to the DM style of Soul of a New Machine.

Michael wrote:Fear Factory would have to be the fattest band in the world - I saw them at the Big Day Out last year (lord knows what they were doing there) and I was horrified. They appear to have hired some sort of wooly-mammoth prototype on bass, and Dino has been in a good paddock lately. Also, how is it possible for George Stroud to be such a beast of a drummer, and yet morbidly obese at the same time?

They've actually played the Big Day Out about four times. Dino Cazares always looked like he swallowed a cow, but seeing him recently at Wacken, he now looks like he's eaten the whole farm. Massive. I interviewed him once and he scoffed burritos through the whole thing

Since Christian Olde Wolbers and Raymond Herrera left they have become one of the fattest bands ever. Byron Stroud (not George) is the bass player and he does look like a caveman (loved his work with Strapping Young Lad though), while Gene Hoglan is a not only a metal drumming legend but clearly an eating legend. He is seriously unhealthy looking. Amazing drummer, but.

Rodman wrote:

Raiders Lime Milk wrote:

Rodman wrote:

Raiders Lime Milk wrote: I'll be there on Saturday too. Man I'm glad the Raiders are playing Friday and not clashing with this. Both bands are well beyond their peak, but I'm looking forward to it. Metallica will still kick plenty of back door as they haven't lost it live. I saw Fear factory five weeks ago at Wacken for about the 8000th time and found it pretty uninspiring. They used to be so cutting edge and phenomenal live, but the recent show I found very one dimensional.

I never had the pleasure of seeing FF live during the Demanufacture-era, but the times that I have seen them they haven't cut it as a live band. They were one of my favorite bands when I first got into metal, but I'm pretty over them now TBH...

I first saw FF on the Demanufacture tour, and they were very good back then. But they were a cutting-edge band in those days and their sonic pummelling simply worked. But in the last 10 years their music has been ordinary and the live show has reflected that. Plus, their man vs machine themes have been done to death. They tend now to just be a wall of sound and it's quite frankly a bit boring.

Agreed. I checked out their latest one which had fans beating their meat over as 'a return to form', but really it was little more than Demanufacture b-sides. FF'S problem is whenever they've tried to do something a little different (Obsolete, Digimirtal) it's been garbage.

I'd probably more interested in them if they reverted to the DM style of Soul of a New Machine.

I used to know a bloke who saw them when they toured Australia for Soul of a New Machine and he said it was phenomenal. If they reverted back to that sound I would buy it the day it came out. That is one hell of an album.

I actually didn't mind Obsolete, but Digimortal was absolute rubbish that tried to ride the nu metal craze. *shudder*

Jake wrote:They are certainly a fat band. I would loved to have seen them in the Demanufacture-era. What sort of stuff are they playing Milk? Old stuff exclusively? Or Transgression-era rubbish?

Metallica will be awesome. Also, The Sword are pretty cool... Sludgy modern metal. Impossible not to draw comparisons with Sabbath (just like any band ever who play a sludgy riff).

I'm pumped.

At Wacken, they opened with "Mechanize" and then played mostly new stuff for the first half of the set. The second half was all old (bear in mind it was only a one-hour festival set) and mainly Demanufacture stuff which was good to hear but it just sounded too, dare I say it, loud. It was just a wall of sound and I just couldn't get into it. Although bear in mind they played at 1.30am on the last night of a four-day festival, so I was absolutely knackered with sore feet etc so they would have had to be mind-blowing to get two thumbs up.

Raiders Lime Milk wrote:

Michael wrote:Fear Factory would have to be the fattest band in the world - I saw them at the Big Day Out last year (lord knows what they were doing there) and I was horrified. They appear to have hired some sort of wooly-mammoth prototype on bass, and Dino has been in a good paddock lately. Also, how is it possible for George Stroud to be such a beast of a drummer, and yet morbidly obese at the same time?

They've actually played the Big Day Out about four times. Dino Cazares always looked like he swallowed a cow, but seeing him recently at Wacken, he now looks like he's eaten the whole farm. Massive. I interviewed him once and he scoffed burritos through the whole thing

Since Christian Olde Wolbers and Raymond Herrera left they have become one of the fattest bands ever. Byron Stroud (not George) is the bass player and he does look like a caveman (loved his work with Strapping Young Lad though), while Gene Hoglan is a not only a metal drumming legend but clearly an eating legend. He is seriously unhealthy looking. Amazing drummer, but.

Yeah I completely made a mess of trying make fun of the fat guy from Strapping Young Lad there, my bad.

Michael wrote:

Raiders Lime Milk wrote:

Michael wrote:Fear Factory would have to be the fattest band in the world - I saw them at the Big Day Out last year (lord knows what they were doing there) and I was horrified. They appear to have hired some sort of wooly-mammoth prototype on bass, and Dino has been in a good paddock lately. Also, how is it possible for George Stroud to be such a beast of a drummer, and yet morbidly obese at the same time?

They've actually played the Big Day Out about four times. Dino Cazares always looked like he swallowed a cow, but seeing him recently at Wacken, he now looks like he's eaten the whole farm. Massive. I interviewed him once and he scoffed burritos through the whole thing

Since Christian Olde Wolbers and Raymond Herrera left they have become one of the fattest bands ever. Byron Stroud (not George) is the bass player and he does look like a caveman (loved his work with Strapping Young Lad though), while Gene Hoglan is a not only a metal drumming legend but clearly an eating legend. He is seriously unhealthy looking. Amazing drummer, but.

Yeah I completely made a mess of trying make fun of the fat guy from Strapping Young Lad there, my bad.

Reminds me of:

Brad: "We can all learn a lot from this young man here, this, this..."
Bart: "Rudiger"
Brad: "...Rudiger. And if we can all be more like little Rudiger..."
Marge: "His name's Bart"
Brad: "His name isn't important!"

"We like Roy, we like Roy..."

RLM - what do you think of this for a proposition?

Between Judas Priest + Iron Maiden, IM have the most good songs and are the most consistent band overall (excluding the Bayley era), but they never had an album as brilliant as Painkiller?

Rodman wrote:RLM - what do you think of this for a proposition?

Between Judas Priest + Iron Maiden, IM have the most good songs and are the most consistent band overall (excluding the Bayley era), but they never had an album as brilliant as Painkiller?

Couldn't agree more. Maiden have been fairly consistent over a very long period, whereby Priest have dropped away as time has gone on. But Painkiller is definitely the best album either band has made. What a classic.