The Politics Thread 2021

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gergreg
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gergreg »

Oh. Just to my Trump reference, it was entirely related to your inability to concede and absolutely nothing more than that. I apologise if it came across as directed at your views or beliefs and other behavioural traits because that was not my intention.

I thought our whole exchange was a bit of banter because everything I wrote was done with a wry smile.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Seiffert82 »

Mickey_Raider wrote: March 5, 2021, 5:45 pm
Seiffert82 wrote: March 5, 2021, 12:21 pm I now understand you're advocating for MMT to be the sensible approach for governments to take. Your original posts on the matter indicated that you thought the MMT approach is effectively what the government is doing already, and that "taxes don't fund government spending".

I just don't agree with that original premise. The government does not run their accounting and monetary system based on MMT, hence the debate. From an accounting perspective, the government raises tax revenue and borrows additional money to fund expenditure. They don't just write off tax receipts and create money out of nothing.
How can you on one hand say that you disagree with the premise and that they don't create money out of nothing even though you conceded that they do yesterday? Phillip Lowe even admits it, regularly.
Seiffert82 wrote: March 5, 2021, 12:21 pm I also don't understand what the benefits it provides over the existing system.
Let us be perfectly clear. There is no "alternative" system which one switches over to in order to "start doing" MMT.

But I know what you are getting at so let me give you a topical example.

The proposed aged care levy.

The "benefits" of understanding that the constraints on our government spending what is required to address this massive issue isn't some figure on a budget paper, or some national debt figure ("oh no we just broke through the debt ceiling, lets raise it again"); are profound.

It means we stop asking "how are we going to pay for this?", with "how are we going to resource this?" followed by "do we have fiscal space in our economy to accomodate this spending or is this going to cause some inflationary pressures?"

Now, it may be the case in an alternative scenario where our economy is hot, almost everyone is in work and consumer confidence and aggregate demand is high that the government does need to increase taxes in order to create the fiscal space necessary to implement such spending.

However right now, with hundreds of thousands of people unemployed and millions underemployed, there is plenty of space to do this without levying a tax. There is plenty of slack in the economy.

I trust that you can make the distinction that in the alternate scenario above would not be tantamount to saying "we need to levy a tax to pay for the spending".
The Government sells bonds, with an obligation to pay it back with interest. So the creation of money is attached to a debt.

MMT is absolutely a switch in the way our accounting system currently works. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be regarded as a new (or different) theory. You yourself have provided links to articles explaining this.

You can't just pick and choose what monetary policy and financial accounting system that the government runs with depending on some arbitrary decision on whether the economy is running hot or not.

At the end of the day, the article below basically sums up my opinion on why MMT is an economic fallacy. It also explains how it creates winners (government - who are fundamentally **** at spending money and ALWAYS make terrible financial decisions to support dead industries) and losers (everyone else - who are directly impacted by the value of our currency), and why that is important to understand. It also explains how and why it is different to what happens in our system.

https://www.dlacalle.com/en/mmt-is-fake-economics-2/
Last edited by Seiffert82 on March 6, 2021, 7:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

You’re having a bubble bath here gerg, surely?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Seiffert82 wrote: March 6, 2021, 6:52 am The Government sells bonds, with an obligation to pay it back with interest. So the creation of money is attached to a debt.
Interesting. And what about when the central bank (a public entity) buys bonds from the treasury (a public entity). How does that fit into the "every dollar we spend is borrowed" (i.e we are operating on the goodwill of entities outside of the government's control) line?

Also, you know the government doesn't need to sell bonds right?
Seiffert82 wrote: March 6, 2021, 6:52 am You can't just pick and choose what monetary policy and financial accounting system that the government runs with depending on some arbitrary decision on whether the economy is running hot or not.
Again with the "flip a switch" metaphor. The functions I am explaining happen as a matter of fact. It is just that there is an ideology, wilfully pushed along, that they are encumbered with certain limitations which simply do not exist. The ideology results in very real adverse policy outcomes (please see "natural rate of unemployment" resting at only 1 million people living in poverty.)
Seiffert82 wrote: March 6, 2021, 6:52 am At the end of the day, the article below basically sums up my opinion on why MMT is an economic fallacy. It also explains how it creates winners (government - who are fundamentally **** at spending money and ALWAYS make terrible financial decisions to support dead industries) and losers (everyone else - who are directly impacted by the value of our currency), and why that is important to understand. It also explains how and why it is different to what happens in our system.

https://www.dlacalle.com/en/mmt-is-fake-economics-2/
That is a very, very poor article which I won't respond to line by line because it would take too long. But suffice to say, the author is wrapped up in a vortex of confusion in regards to exogenous v endogenous economic analyses. I seriously cannot believe people still write with a straight face that increasing fiscal spending as an independent variable causes exchange rate depreciation. It is nothing more than a specious assumption which empirically is proven time and time again to just not be true.

Did you just type in "MMT is wrong" into google and lift the first link you found?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Seiffert82 »

Mickey_Raider wrote: March 6, 2021, 8:32 am
Seiffert82 wrote: March 6, 2021, 6:52 am The Government sells bonds, with an obligation to pay it back with interest. So the creation of money is attached to a debt.
Interesting. And what about when the central bank (a public entity) buys bonds from the treasury (a public entity). How does that fit into the "every dollar we spend is borrowed" (i.e we are operating on the goodwill of entities outside of the government's control) line?

Also, you know the government doesn't need to sell bonds right?
Seiffert82 wrote: March 6, 2021, 6:52 am You can't just pick and choose what monetary policy and financial accounting system that the government runs with depending on some arbitrary decision on whether the economy is running hot or not.
Again with the "flip a switch" metaphor. The functions I am explaining happen as a matter of fact. It is just that there is an ideology, wilfully pushed along, that they are encumbered with certain limitations which simply do not exist. The ideology results in very real adverse policy outcomes (please see "natural rate of unemployment" resting at only 1 million people living in poverty.)
Seiffert82 wrote: March 6, 2021, 6:52 am At the end of the day, the article below basically sums up my opinion on why MMT is an economic fallacy. It also explains how it creates winners (government - who are fundamentally **** at spending money and ALWAYS make terrible financial decisions to support dead industries) and losers (everyone else - who are directly impacted by the value of our currency), and why that is important to understand. It also explains how and why it is different to what happens in our system.

https://www.dlacalle.com/en/mmt-is-fake-economics-2/
That is a very, very poor article which I won't respond to line by line because it would take too long. But suffice to say, the author is wrapped up in a vortex of confusion in regards to exogenous v endogenous economic analyses. I seriously cannot believe people still write with a straight face that increasing fiscal spending as an independent variable causes exchange rate depreciation. It is nothing more than a specious assumption which empirically is proven time and time again to just not be true.

Did you just type in "MMT is wrong" into google and lift the first link you found?
The article happened to pop up in my google news after I read the article you posted. I think it provides a pretty good explanation of the things I'm communicating.

I get the sense you're confusing yourself about what the government is actually doing and what you think they should be doing. You started off by saying tax revenue is a myth and the government just creates its own money to fund expenditure. Now you're saying MMT is the way things should operate and any criticism of the theory is a misguided attempt by idiots to discredit what you think is a perfect system. You're also suggesting I too am idiot for pointing to that article.

At this stage I'm not sure if you're arguing whether MMT is the way to go, or trying to get me to accept that MMT is what is actually happening under the guise of some other system of accounting smoke and mirrors.

It's all good. We're going around in circles. I'll bow out of the discussion now. :)
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

There is nothing “modern” about MMT. It’s not new... it’s proven over and over to be a recipe for economic disaster.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Seiffert82 wrote: March 6, 2021, 9:49 am I get the sense you're confusing yourself about what the government is actually doing and what you think they should be doing. You started off by saying tax revenue is a myth and the government just creates its own money to fund expenditure. Now you're saying MMT is the way things should operate and any criticism of the theory is a misguided attempt by idiots to discredit what you think is a perfect system. You're also suggesting I too am idiot for pointing to that article.
1. I'm not suggesting you're an idiot, I just think that article is poor.

2. I never said tax revenue is a myth. I said that the notion that taxes fund government spending is a myth. However, taxes are still an indispensable part of the money system and I have explained that pretty extensively. As a footnote, the origin of the word "revenue" is French, and it means "returned". I.e paying taxes is returning a part of the money that has previously been spent into the system. It is not supplying the government as a matter of necessity the same currency of which it is the monopoly issuer in order to facilitate spending.

3. Anyway, happy to leave it at that as I think there is a nonalignment between us.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Mickey_Raider »

greeneyed wrote: March 6, 2021, 10:21 am There is nothing “modern” about MMT. It’s not new... it’s proven over and over to be a recipe for economic disaster.
GE this is a point blank question...

Could you explain to me why Japan institutionally and as a matter of policy issues massive levels of public debt; has a debt to gap ratio of 250% and yet has constantly anaemic levels of inflation and a very, very stable currency?

Surely this kind of deficit spending in perpetuity should be leading to an increasingly worthless Yen and Weimar Republic levels of hyperinflation?
Last edited by Mickey_Raider on March 6, 2021, 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gergreg »

The Nickman wrote:You’re having a bubble bath here gerg, surely?
The world's gotten too serious, so I'm usually having a bubble bath. But do tell... I've apologised for my comment being misconstrued, is that not acceptable to you?

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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Seiffert82 »

Mickey_Raider wrote: March 6, 2021, 10:22 am
Seiffert82 wrote: March 6, 2021, 9:49 am I get the sense you're confusing yourself about what the government is actually doing and what you think they should be doing. You started off by saying tax revenue is a myth and the government just creates its own money to fund expenditure. Now you're saying MMT is the way things should operate and any criticism of the theory is a misguided attempt by idiots to discredit what you think is a perfect system. You're also suggesting I too am idiot for pointing to that article.
1. I'm not suggesting you're an idiot, I just think that article is poor.

2. I never said tax revenue is a myth. I said that the notion that taxes fund government spending is a myth. However, taxes are still an indispensable part of the money system and I have explained that pretty extensively. As a footnote, the origin of the word "revenue" is French, and it means "returned". I.e paying taxes is returning a part of the money that has previously been spent into the system. It is not supplying the government as a matter of necessity the same currency of which it is the monopoly issuer in order to facilitate spending.

3. Anyway, happy to leave it at that as I think there is a nonalignment between us.
Sounds good. :)

Sorry, yes, I misrepresented your original explanation of taxes.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

gergreg wrote:
The Nickman wrote:You’re having a bubble bath here gerg, surely?
The world's gotten too serious, so I'm usually having a bubble bath. But do tell... I've apologised for my comment being misconstrued, is that not acceptable to you?

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Why are you assuming that I think bubble baths are unacceptable, old friend?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gergreg »

The Nickman wrote:
gergreg wrote:
The Nickman wrote:You’re having a bubble bath here gerg, surely?
The world's gotten too serious, so I'm usually having a bubble bath. But do tell... I've apologised for my comment being misconstrued, is that not acceptable to you?

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Why are you assuming that I think bubble baths are unacceptable, old friend?
Oh well it only seems fair that I apologise for other posters misconstruing what I have posted but it's also important that I apologise for misconstruing what you have said here. Silly me.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

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gergreg wrote: March 5, 2021, 8:01 pm Oh. Just to my Trump reference, it was entirely related to your inability to concede and absolutely nothing more than that. I apologise if it came across as directed at your views or beliefs and other behavioural traits because that was not my intention.

I thought our whole exchange was a bit of banter because everything I wrote was done with a wry smile.

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Fair enough, i'm happy to also say i probably took it more seriously than i should have given the context. No apology required. :)
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
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EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gergreg »

Botman wrote:
gergreg wrote: March 5, 2021, 8:01 pm Oh. Just to my Trump reference, it was entirely related to your inability to concede and absolutely nothing more than that. I apologise if it came across as directed at your views or beliefs and other behavioural traits because that was not my intention.

I thought our whole exchange was a bit of banter because everything I wrote was done with a wry smile.

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Fair enough, i'm happy to also say i probably took it more seriously than i should have given the context. No apology required. :)
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The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

I’d just like to say that I’m never serious, and if you guys ever choose to take my posting seriously then that’s on you

You’ve had like 45 thousand odd posts to realise that, jerks
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The Politics Thread 2021

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The Nickman wrote:I’d just like to say that I’m never serious, and if you guys ever choose to take my posting seriously then that’s on you

You’ve had like 45 thousand odd posts to realise that, jerks
I’m with ya on that one.

I’ve created totally made up, completely unbelievable BJ Mole joke stories that have started rumours in the media and then when you do post something serious, no one takes you seriously.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

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BJ wrote:
The Nickman wrote:I’d just like to say that I’m never serious, and if you guys ever choose to take my posting seriously then that’s on you

You’ve had like 45 thousand odd posts to realise that, jerks
I’m with ya on that one.

I’ve created totally made up, completely unbelievable BJ Mole joke stories that have started rumours in the media and then when you do post something serious, no one takes you seriously.
Hahaha I actually love when you post a BJ Mole exclusive and people take you seriously and start ranting about the Mole

One of my favourite bits on the forum

That, and Botman being a **** to everyone
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

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The Nickman wrote: March 7, 2021, 10:16 am I’d just like to say that I’m never serious, and if you guys ever choose to take my posting seriously then that’s on you

You’ve had like 45 thousand odd posts to realise that, jerks
Hey, they weren't ALL odd!
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

T_R wrote:
The Nickman wrote: March 7, 2021, 10:16 am I’d just like to say that I’m never serious, and if you guys ever choose to take my posting seriously then that’s on you

You’ve had like 45 thousand odd posts to realise that, jerks
Hey, they weren't ALL odd!
Haha.
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The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

So, the Republic debate, where do we stand?

For me, I’m on the side of staying, purely because I don’t understand the perks of leaving. I just feel it would be a costly exercise to change it all up, just for us to keep doing what we’re already doing. Add to that, we won’t be able to dominate the Comm Games if we leave.

That said, I’ll put my hand up and admit I don’t know enough of the Pro’s to form a proper opinion, so I can be swayed.

Republic vs Commonwealth, Pro’s vs Con’s?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Northern Raider »

I came on here expecting talk about the Meghan and Harry interview with Oprah.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

A country does not need to leave the Commonwealth if it becomes a republic. So there goes the sporting reason. The Royal Family doesn't represent us any longer... and doesn't this week give us one more reason why we should cut those ties? Cripes... Prince Charles won't even take or return his son's phone calls. And there's the link to the Megan and Harry interview for you...

It is possible to make minimal changes to our political system, while ensuring we have an Australian Head of State. Any self respecting country would do it.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

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The Nickman wrote: March 7, 2021, 10:30 am
That, and Botman being a **** to everyone
Agreed, really great bit
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

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Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: March 9, 2021, 5:39 pm So, the Republic debate, where do we stand?

For me, I’m on the side of staying, purely because I don’t understand the perks of leaving. I just feel it would be a costly exercise to change it all up, just for us to keep doing what we’re already doing. Add to that, we won’t be able to dominate the Comm Games if we leave.

That said, I’ll put my hand up and admit I don’t know enough of the Pro’s to form a proper opinion, so I can be swayed.

Republic vs Commonwealth, Pro’s vs Con’s?
I love absolutely **** on everyone at the comm games. It's really one of my favourite 2 weeks of a 4 year period
I also love getting very angry when those same hereos fail to deliver at the actual olympics. Its really a joyful exprience for me

I'd like to remove ourselves from the commonwealth. We dont need them, the connection at this point is nothing more than for show. The monarchy like most things as old as it has a history i dont think we need to be tying ourselves to as a country, not that we dont have our own skeletons in the closest, but we're a fully independant nation and im supportive of us making that office

the money side? that **** is a drop in the ocean for the government. It's a non factor for me
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Northern Raider »

Botman wrote: March 9, 2021, 7:25 pm
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: March 9, 2021, 5:39 pm So, the Republic debate, where do we stand?

For me, I’m on the side of staying, purely because I don’t understand the perks of leaving. I just feel it would be a costly exercise to change it all up, just for us to keep doing what we’re already doing. Add to that, we won’t be able to dominate the Comm Games if we leave.

That said, I’ll put my hand up and admit I don’t know enough of the Pro’s to form a proper opinion, so I can be swayed.

Republic vs Commonwealth, Pro’s vs Con’s?
I love absolutely **** on everyone at the comm games. It's really one of my favourite 2 weeks of a 4 year period
I also love getting very angry when those same hereos fail to deliver at the actual olympics. Its really a joyful exprience for me

I'd like to remove ourselves from the commonwealth. We dont need them, the connection at this point is nothing more than for show. The monarchy like most things as old as it has a history i dont think we need to be tying ourselves to as a country, not that we dont have our own skeletons in the closest, but we're a fully independant nation and im supportive of us making that office

the money side? that **** is a drop in the ocean for the government. It's a non factor for me
Becoming a Republic is not removing ourselves from the commonwealth.

In reality the while thing is symbolic. I used be really keen on the Republic idea. Now I don't rely care as it will make zero difference to our everyday lives.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by -TW- »

Yeah I'm a bit meh on it, it won't make a whole deal of difference and the royals won't disappear from the news if we were a republic

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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Botman »

Northern Raider wrote: March 9, 2021, 8:20 pm
Botman wrote: March 9, 2021, 7:25 pm
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: March 9, 2021, 5:39 pm So, the Republic debate, where do we stand?

For me, I’m on the side of staying, purely because I don’t understand the perks of leaving. I just feel it would be a costly exercise to change it all up, just for us to keep doing what we’re already doing. Add to that, we won’t be able to dominate the Comm Games if we leave.

That said, I’ll put my hand up and admit I don’t know enough of the Pro’s to form a proper opinion, so I can be swayed.

Republic vs Commonwealth, Pro’s vs Con’s?
I love absolutely **** on everyone at the comm games. It's really one of my favourite 2 weeks of a 4 year period
I also love getting very angry when those same hereos fail to deliver at the actual olympics. Its really a joyful exprience for me

I'd like to remove ourselves from the commonwealth. We dont need them, the connection at this point is nothing more than for show. The monarchy like most things as old as it has a history i dont think we need to be tying ourselves to as a country, not that we dont have our own skeletons in the closest, but we're a fully independant nation and im supportive of us making that office

the money side? that **** is a drop in the ocean for the government. It's a non factor for me
Becoming a Republic is not removing ourselves from the commonwealth.

In reality the while thing is symbolic. I used be really keen on the Republic idea. Now I don't rely care as it will make zero difference to our everyday lives.
It's all symbolic. In or out. And will make no tangible different to anyone's life but even so, i personally would feel good about having no official link, symbolic or otherwise to the monarchy

But yeah, that's the rub, its a process for what will ultimately change absolutely **** nothing. So pragmatically there is a strong "what's the point?" question
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
Fuifui Bradbrad
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

Botman wrote:
Northern Raider wrote: March 9, 2021, 8:20 pm
Botman wrote: March 9, 2021, 7:25 pm
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: March 9, 2021, 5:39 pm So, the Republic debate, where do we stand?

For me, I’m on the side of staying, purely because I don’t understand the perks of leaving. I just feel it would be a costly exercise to change it all up, just for us to keep doing what we’re already doing. Add to that, we won’t be able to dominate the Comm Games if we leave.

That said, I’ll put my hand up and admit I don’t know enough of the Pro’s to form a proper opinion, so I can be swayed.

Republic vs Commonwealth, Pro’s vs Con’s?
I love absolutely **** on everyone at the comm games. It's really one of my favourite 2 weeks of a 4 year period
I also love getting very angry when those same hereos fail to deliver at the actual olympics. Its really a joyful exprience for me

I'd like to remove ourselves from the commonwealth. We dont need them, the connection at this point is nothing more than for show. The monarchy like most things as old as it has a history i dont think we need to be tying ourselves to as a country, not that we dont have our own skeletons in the closest, but we're a fully independant nation and im supportive of us making that office

the money side? that **** is a drop in the ocean for the government. It's a non factor for me
Becoming a Republic is not removing ourselves from the commonwealth.

In reality the while thing is symbolic. I used be really keen on the Republic idea. Now I don't rely care as it will make zero difference to our everyday lives.
It's all symbolic. In or out. And will make no tangible different to anyone's life but even so, i personally would feel good about having no official link, symbolic or otherwise to the monarchy

But yeah, that's the rub, its a process for what will ultimately change absolutely **** nothing. So pragmatically there is a strong "what's the point?" question
This is where I’m at. I’m genuinely curious, because there are some people deadset passionate about being a Republic, and I don’t see the point. The link we have with them is weak at best, and I can’t see anything significantly changing if we did.
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Dr Zaius
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Dr Zaius »

I was pretty passionately for a Republic at the time of the referendum, but was relatively young.

Given the events of the last 12 months I'm pretty ambitious. After what's played out in the US, I'd definitely prefer the model proposed at the last referendum (from memory the president is elected by a 2/3 major of a combined vote from the house and senate) rather than a popular vote and ending up with a populist as head of state.

One thing that the monarchy has offered for the last 60 odd years is consistency and relative level headedness. Regardless of what the kids and grand kids have been up to, the Queen herself has been incredibly controversy free for her reign.

All in all its a figurehead post who lends counsel to the Government. There are more pressing issues at the moment.
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greeneyed
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: March 9, 2021, 8:46 pm
Botman wrote:
Northern Raider wrote: March 9, 2021, 8:20 pm
Botman wrote: March 9, 2021, 7:25 pm
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: March 9, 2021, 5:39 pm So, the Republic debate, where do we stand?

For me, I’m on the side of staying, purely because I don’t understand the perks of leaving. I just feel it would be a costly exercise to change it all up, just for us to keep doing what we’re already doing. Add to that, we won’t be able to dominate the Comm Games if we leave.

That said, I’ll put my hand up and admit I don’t know enough of the Pro’s to form a proper opinion, so I can be swayed.

Republic vs Commonwealth, Pro’s vs Con’s?
I love absolutely **** on everyone at the comm games. It's really one of my favourite 2 weeks of a 4 year period
I also love getting very angry when those same hereos fail to deliver at the actual olympics. Its really a joyful exprience for me

I'd like to remove ourselves from the commonwealth. We dont need them, the connection at this point is nothing more than for show. The monarchy like most things as old as it has a history i dont think we need to be tying ourselves to as a country, not that we dont have our own skeletons in the closest, but we're a fully independant nation and im supportive of us making that office

the money side? that **** is a drop in the ocean for the government. It's a non factor for me
Becoming a Republic is not removing ourselves from the commonwealth.

In reality the while thing is symbolic. I used be really keen on the Republic idea. Now I don't rely care as it will make zero difference to our everyday lives.
It's all symbolic. In or out. And will make no tangible different to anyone's life but even so, i personally would feel good about having no official link, symbolic or otherwise to the monarchy

But yeah, that's the rub, its a process for what will ultimately change absolutely **** nothing. So pragmatically there is a strong "what's the point?" question
This is where I’m at. I’m genuinely curious, because there are some people deadset passionate about being a Republic, and I don’t see the point. The link we have with them is weak at best, and I can’t see anything significantly changing if we did.
Because we are our own country. The members of the monarchy make no secret of their ultimate allegiances. It’s not us if there’s a choice. It’s an embarrassment that we have this link for a proud, independent country... on the other side of the world from the embarrassment that is the English royal family.

Are we Australians or English? We currently owe or own allegiance to an English hereditary monarch who hasn’t even visited for decades. This arrangement is a horrible anachronism and downgrades our country.
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zim
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by zim »

I just want an Australian version of Olympus Has Fallen with Ernie Dingo as President. Can't do that tied down to the royals.
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the bone
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by the bone »

I’m pro Republic. I understand it won’t change anything day-to-day, but the Monarchy is an outdated institution that goes against the Australian value of “fair go” i.e. equality of opportunity for all. Obviously this fair go value isn’t true in practice (the plight of indigenous Australians is a case in point), but the idealism is incongruent with the hereditary privilege of not just the royal family but English high society in general.
And for those that say why bother, whilst I understand the sentiment, my response is why not take this conversation off the table by getting it done and moving on? Until we become a republic, the debate will continue to resurface.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

I'm all for a republic. No one family should be born into power, a monarchy is so outdated in a world we should all be striving for free and honest democracies. England itself should be a republic.

Our system needs to be inherently better than the US though but that's another discussion entirely.
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hobbsy
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by hobbsy »

The Nickman wrote: March 10, 2021, 5:35 am I'm all for a republic. No one family should be born into power, a monarchy is so outdated in a world we should all be striving for free and honest democracies. England itself should be a republic.

Our system needs to be inherently better than the US though but that's another discussion entirely.
Couldn't agree more with this, also my view
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Botman
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Botman »

Yeah the US political system is a real worry in becoming a republic, but they've laid out the blue print of how NOT to do it, so we should be able to figure that out
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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